Newbie 2128 - Manila Noir - Postgame

[Political Clout]

There's only a vote on their slot, so maybe it's time to VOTE: MihkailTal so we can get their attention. If their intention wasn't gauging reactions then idk what the grand plan is lol

I hope they swing by soon!

town post

[Political Clout]

Maduisha what makes you think the PR claim is not real, but also just a joke? Same goes to Starfire.
MikhailTal what was your motive behind that claim by the way
1. if you are real, you more or less outed your partner by the hotter/colder thing
2. if you are fake but town, someone cc's, you get voted and look bad
3. if you are scum, someone cc's you get voted, gj
The only good things that happen in this is
4. you are fake but town, nobody cc's, you tank the shot, you die
5. you are scum, they believe you
6. you live as real mason
the good moment in 5 is short-lived due to a inevitable cc
6 is really unlikely.
now, you've established that you here are PR hunting and not scumhunting
I wish I could vote you twice.
If this slot survives d1 and lives n1, I'm placing a heavy sr on Tal.
Screw that… Tal instantly gets a heavy sr from me from these two pages.

How's your Mason partner feeling about your gambit? You did discuss it with them (I hope). cough!

it was an intuitive sacrifice and i intend to prove i have sufficient compensation for it.

wow! I realised this post exists!
well nope, I don't believe your partner would let you do that
vote x3 (unofficial)

actually, no
I feel like this is PR baiting instead.
seems like AI more than NAI.

I don't really like how iamveryhappy ramps up suspicion in a series of posts when the situation was otherwise static. What leads this from ''seems alignment indicative'' to ''vote x3 (unofficial)'' Feels like trying to build a wagon more than learning. VOTE: Iamveryhappy

This feels like an EXTREMELY weird scum read to me. If anything because happy is changing his mind here it indicates town behavior that he is trying to sus out, push, and figure out what mikhail's alignment is. It looks like he is going back rereading and changing his reads. The only players who like things to remain static are scum sided in my opinion. And in my opinion is deserving of a vote.

[Political Clout]

Maduisha what makes you think the PR claim is not real, but also just a joke? Same goes to Starfire.
MikhailTal what was your motive behind that claim by the way
1. if you are real, you more or less outed your partner by the hotter/colder thing
2. if you are fake but town, someone cc's, you get voted and look bad
3. if you are scum, someone cc's you get voted, gj
The only good things that happen in this is
4. you are fake but town, nobody cc's, you tank the shot, you die
5. you are scum, they believe you
6. you live as real mason
the good moment in 5 is short-lived due to a inevitable cc
6 is really unlikely.
now, you've established that you here are PR hunting and not scumhunting
I wish I could vote you twice.
If this slot survives d1 and lives n1, I'm placing a heavy sr on Tal.
Screw that… Tal instantly gets a heavy sr from me from these two pages.

How's your Mason partner feeling about your gambit? You did discuss it with them (I hope). cough!

it was an intuitive sacrifice and i intend to prove i have sufficient compensation for it.

wow! I realised this post exists!
well nope, I don't believe your partner would let you do that
vote x3 (unofficial)

actually, no
I feel like this is PR baiting instead.
seems like AI more than NAI.

I don't really like how iamveryhappy ramps up suspicion in a series of posts when the situation was otherwise static. What leads this from ''seems alignment indicative'' to ''vote x3 (unofficial)'' Feels like trying to build a wagon more than learning. VOTE: Iamveryhappy

i like this

play the game and justify your thoughts. pray tell why do you like it? please and thank you for answering.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE COUNT 1.1

My cameras roll as the senate hearing starts. We're live. Behold! The honorable senators. A picture of perfection in their designer threads, makeup, and hairdos. Circus freaks performing a high-wire act atop the hierarchy. Genuine artists. Facing them are the nine board members — wooden amateurs in comparison. The senators take turns expressing their outrage and demands for justice. The audience laps it up. Everyone's watching. Millions of screens light up the metro, but there's no still illumination.

Millions aren't enough for our corporate sponsors. They're asking for millions more. A close angle to the story to get the most amount of eyeballs. An exclusive.

A lead.

This theatrical performance won't help me get closer to the truth. Each question, each answer, and each revelation are as empty as they are perfectly timed.

Truth is out there away from the noise, away from the spectacle. I step outside to have a smoke.

---

iamveryhappy (2):

Wayward Son, Starfire

MikhailTal (2):

iamveryhappy, Maduisha

Wayward Son (1):

Keria

Maduisha (1):

SmileyDude1

Starfire (1):

Political Clout

Not Voting (2):

MikhailTal, ender

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-07-31 15:00:00)

[Political Clout]

kk what makes you like it

i think scum want to push for a Mihkail lim and it seems like Starfire is kinda picking up on that too by sussing you

3 pages in and you know what scum want to do? Can you clarify what you mean/what you are trying to say please and thank you.

[Political Clout]

>7500 hours
at this level t!Tal would know better to do this

ok that's fair, i didn't see this originally or i glossed over it. do you really think Mihkail outs himself and his scum partner here though? that doesn't seem like an optimal play at all tbh

More like scumpartner outed themselves LOL

what do you mean?

I'm saying
this vote gives us so much info. judging by the reactions I can decently deduce the scumpartner

i don't think you should be this convinced that Mihkail is lying scum here. you're already pre-flipping him and looking for partners? i can't tell if you're overzealous or scummy. part of me thinks you really believe he is scum but i can't really figure out why you are so confident. imo

scum doesn't make this play to start the game

Are you calling mikhail town here? clarify please and thank you.

[Political Clout]

This reads very much like scum pushing a bad claim from Tal and looking to exchange for a free elim.

So more importantly are you calling tal town here? clarify please and thank you.

[ender]

@mod - please double check. you have keria on iavh but his only vote was for wayward son

. he quoted a post that vote iahv so maybe that's where the confusion is. iavh should only have wayward son and starfire as votes on him right now.

humaneatingmonkey: Thanks for noticing!

[Political Clout]

okay, after doing iso's on everyone so far here's where my head is at. there are still several slots that lack much substantial input.

the main content so far after Tal's claim, has been the back and forth between iavh and starfire.

looking at iavh:
if he is scum, he would have a lot of motive to push for a Tal wagon whether Tal is actually a mason or if Tal is scum also. Assuming town!Tal, scum motivation would be to get rid of a town PR during the day so that N1 kill doesn't have to go toward that. Assuming scum!Tal, scum!iavh would have motivation to distance himself heavily from such a rash early false claim. that doesn't mean iavh can't be town and just find Tal's claim IA and scummy, I personally don't see the claim as AI right now, and i also am feeling like a D1 lynch of Tal is not town-motivated.

he also is quick to use his scum read on Tal to draw connections to starfire by claiming she's chainsaw defending Tal. i personally don't like trying to look for scum pairs before the identity of one of the scum is known. there's nothing wrong with looking for links between people but i'd say let's first focus on finding one scum, and then once we know who they are we can analyze their interactions with everyone else more closely.

looking at starfire:
she started off by reading Tal's claim as 'rvs banter' and 'not a play at all'. scum!starfire would not have motivation to write off the claim as nothing, unless it's a starfire/Tal pairing. she changed her mind from Tal's claim being 'rvs banter' to it being just a bad play that is NAI. since i agree that the claim is not necessarily AI I don't see this change of mind as scummy either. the remainder of her posts have been calling out iavh for trying to wagon Tal, with the assertion that he really started pushing after i made my post which she says served as the catalyst for iavh to push harder.

between the two of them if i had to pick one, i feel like iavh's play so far has more scum motivation, so he earns my vote for now. VOTE: iamveryhappy

@Political Clout your only post is just a vote. in a game where text is all we have to go on, posts that lack substance are unhelpful. please clarify why you found the post you quoted scummy enough to warrant your vote. and please give your thoughts on what has happened so far.

@Maduisha and @Wayward Son, what are your thoughts on the back and forth between iavh and Starfire? have you noticed anything from anyone that raises your suspicion?

Are you voting happy for elimination here because to me that's exactly what it reads like. Are you aware that a day in MS is 10 irl days?

[iamveryhappy]

mmm
answer the questions btw

[ender]

Are you voting happy for elimination here because to me that's exactly what it reads like. Are you aware that a day in MS is 10 irl days?

i am using my vote to apply pressure, and to indicate who i am currently feel most comfortable with eliminating if it comes to it. the same as you are doing with starfire.

i'm well aware of how long days are and i'm well aware that we should make the most of them. hence my subsequent unvote when there was confusion over the vote tally. since the official vote count still (according to my count) has a miscount, i am still holding off on reapplying my vote until we are 100% sure.

i'm not trying to cause a quick lynch if that's what you're getting at.

mmm
answer the questions btw

please indicate to whom you are speaking.

[ender]

i'm not trying to cause a quick [redacted] if that's what you're getting at.

sorry, old habits. i meant "quick elimination"

[Political Clout]

Are you voting happy for elimination here because to me that's exactly what it reads like. Are you aware that a day in MS is 10 irl days?

i am using my vote to apply pressure, and to indicate who i am currently feel most comfortable with eliminating if it comes to it. the same as you are doing with starfire.

i'm well aware of how long days are and i'm well aware that we should make the most of them. hence my subsequent unvote when there was confusion over the vote tally. since the official vote count still (according to my count) has a miscount, i am still holding off on reapplying my vote until we are 100% sure.

i'm not trying to cause a quick lynch if that's what you're getting at.

mmm
answer the questions btw

please indicate to whom you are speaking.

got it understood. Since you're applying pressure, what is it that you're trying to accomplish with the pressure? Like what do you want to ask happy that will clarify his actions or what will make you satisfied with happy? because so far I have seen you vote him and say that between him and starfire he has more scum sided motivation, what I noticed that is odd about this is you don't call starfire town just that between both of their reasons one of them is more scum that struck me as odd.

here's another question are you not going to examine mikhailtal today at all? because in 92 you say he should be nk by the mafia this presupposes that he would live d1.

[Political Clout]

Like I have yet to see any pressure from ender to happy I saw him make a post call happy's reasoning scum motivated and place a vote; then I saw excuses and weird logic as to why we shouldn't examine mikhail tal today that's so weird to me.

As soon as mikhail tal posts like I'm asking him questions lol.

[ender]

Don't misrepresent what I said. I didn't say we shouldn't examine tal today. I said that his claim shouldn't be the basis for a vote or elimination during day 1. Please reread my post. I clearly said if he does anything else anti town or scummy that should be taken into account.

As for what I mean to accomplish with my vote for pressure, it's to gauge iavh's reaction, which I already have to some degree. But now I'm on my phone so I'll wait until I'm back at my computer later today before I do any further analysis.

[iamveryhappy]

you're getting shit from my reaction lol
understand my sarcasm first

[ender]

I just don't know why it's difficult to understand. We shouldn't eliminate tal day one solely based on his claim. We should force mafia to nk him if they want him gone instead of doing their work for them. Then day two if he is mafia and was lying, then that means we have power roles that can counter him. But they just shouldn't do that today because they'd get nk'd and lose their action.

[Political Clout]

Don't misrepresent what I said. I didn't say we shouldn't examine tal today. I said that his claim shouldn't be the basis for a vote or elimination during day 1. Please reread my post. I clearly said if he does anything else anti town or scummy that should be taken into account.

As for what I mean to accomplish with my vote for pressure, it's to gauge iavh's reaction, which I already have to some degree. But now I'm on my phone so I'll wait until I'm back at my computer later today before I do any further analysis.

Big sorry if I misunderstood as that's how I interpreted what you said. If you're voting happy to apply pressure in the form of a reaction then what do you think happy is doing with mikhail tal? because when I read your 86 it looks like no matter what happy does he is condemned in your eyes. if tal is scum or town you assign scum motivation to happy. To me everything that has happened feels like misunderstandings upon misunderstandings but we need to sus out which ones are being obtuse on purpose and feigning ignorance. Hence all the questions I'm asking.

since we can examine mikhail tal today what question what would you ask mikhail tal since he is currently the subject of great debate? because you're making an association with a slot that hasn't really said anything to a player that has been the most active has been responding to questions isn't scared of the thread, and it appears doesn't really care what happens to them to me that all screams town.

[Political Clout]

I just don't know why it's difficult to understand. We shouldn't eliminate tal day one solely based on his claim. We should force mafia to nk him if they want him gone instead of doing their work for them. Then day two if he is mafia and was lying, then that means we have power roles that can counter him. But they just shouldn't do that today because they'd get nk'd and lose their action.

You're assuming a lot in what random people might do. and you're claiming that your plan is the most optimal while yelling it in the thread. If I was scum I would just leave mikhail alive after I read your post.

you're

absolutely

convinced of the process of how the day and night are going to go and trying to convince us that what you're claiming is optimal it feels like you are operating with more information than what everyone else has.

[ender]

you're getting shit from my reaction lol
understand my sarcasm first

do you find sarcasm to be a pro-town response? do you find it helpful in getting someone on your side in a discussion?
do you find it pro-town to react in a disingenuous manner?

Big sorry if I misunderstood as that's how I interpreted what you said. If you're voting happy to apply pressure in the form of a reaction then what do you think happy is doing with mikhail tal?

iavh is trying to eliminate Tal. point blank. he said before if he had 3-4 votes to give him, he would. he's blinded by the badness of the claim and just wants to kill tal and see the flip. yes he may 'just' be trying to put pressure on Tal to see his reaction, but who knows. we won't know until Tal actually reacts, and can see how iavh reacts to his reaction. i'm only going based on the information i have, which at this point isn't very much.

because when I read your 86 it looks like no matter what happy does he is condemned in your eyes. if tal is scum or town you assign scum motivation to happy.

because iavh is currently acting in a way that has scum motivation, in my eyes, regardless of tal's alignment. i see more anti-town motivation behind iavh's actions than pro-town motivation so far. that's why i voted him and intend to re-vote him (when the vote count is confirmed and corrected) unless new information comes forth or he starts acting in a way that i see to be protown instead.

but don't construe that to mean that "no matter what happy does he is condemned". no one is condemned yet. i am always open to new information coming out. i am always open to having a discussion and seeing if my opinion can be swayed back. tunneling people is never helpful. keep in mind the day just started, there is still over a week left for us to figure as much out as we can, and i don't intend to only look at iavh during that time. but he is currently my biggest suspect at the moment.

To me everything that has happened feels like misunderstandings upon misunderstandings but we need to sus out which ones are being obtuse on purpose and feigning ignorance. Hence all the questions I'm asking.

i appreciate your questions. questions are pro-town. questions force people to explain themselves and their thought process, which can only help us figure out what's going on. so please continue.

since we can examine mikhail tal today what question what would you ask mikhail tal since he is currently the subject of great debate? because you're making an association with a slot that hasn't really said anything to a player that has been the most active has been responding to questions isn't scared of the thread, and it appears doesn't really care what happens to them to me that all screams town.

i would ask him what his intention or plan was with his claim, if he actually planned to reveal his alleged mason partner, if he actually thought that was a good idea, and why he thought that starting the game with a mason claim would be beneficial for town. i want to know his mindset and reasoning. there have been 4 pages of discussion and theories now from everyone except him, so understanding his thought process will help us try to figure out what his motivation was, and whether it actually is deserving of a vote like iavh thinks. maybe it is. we will see.

You're assuming a lot in what random people might do. and you're claiming that your plan is the most optimal while yelling it in the thread. If I was scum I would just leave mikhail alive after I read your post.

as i said above, i am open to discussion and open to having my mind changed. i'm not the town leader here, i'm not saying we have to do anything a certain way. i'm just trying to present what i see to be the best option for us to take. i've presented my idea and i've given the reasons i think it is the most optimal course to take. so far no one has told me any specifics of why my idea would be negative for town.

i welcome you or others to tear apart my proposed plan and let me know why it's bad, and we can discuss and figure out what a better course of action would be.

you're

absolutely

convinced of the process of how the day and night are going to go and trying to convince us that what you're claiming is optimal it feels like you are operating with more information than what everyone else has.

i'm not absolutely convinced about anything. the claim put us in a bad position and all i've been trying so far is figure out which of the options we have in front of us is least bad for town overall. unless tal is actually scum, i don't see any way eliminating him D1 will be beneficial for town. i'm not ruling that out but i think it is less likely than the alternative at this point.

[Starfire]

oh I was thinking we should basically ignore the role claim as a bit of RVS banter

Why not ask for clarification instead of assuming and assigning motive to it. mikhail has basically made you play the game of mafia against yourself.

Already acknowledged this was bad, shouldn't be 'ignoring' anything.

[/quote]

Are you calling mikhail town here? clarify please and thank you.
[/quote]

I think they probably are town.

[Starfire]

Well, that's embarrassing, apologies for the misquote. Hope its clear what I'm responding to @PoliticalClout

[iamveryhappy]

so, apparently I can get scumread for sarcasm, it's already how I do stuff

[iamveryhappy]

ya assuming this keeps happening, getting anyone on my wagon is just lol
clout just… dies tonight. zzz

[Starfire]

Self-pity won't get you out of this. Can we start again from the top? Everyone that has messaged since has acknowledged the mason claim is bad as town, and I think you understand how it would be bad from scum - why do you think Mikhail is scum based on the claim and minigame?

Calling it PR fishing isn't an answer, it's an explanation working backward from the answer.