Mini 2307 | Songs from Glee! | Endgame

[Elements]

Still not a him

[Random Nurse]

607: OK, but why

Kitty

? You make these actions but you rarely provide any reason behind it. To anyone else reading this, am I being unfair with

Elements

? I don't recall playing with him before, so I don't have a firm grasp on *how* he plays the game. I think the actions sans the reasons is what's naturally getting my goat here. 688: OK, why?

First thing, El goes by she/they pronouns

(1)

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

(1) Duly noted.

Hm. Currently I don't really see her trying to push an agenda or trying to manipulate others. I don't get that feeling she's trying to control the game, seeing that so many of her posts are more actions without prior reasoning, or trying to direct players to vote others.

[Random Nurse]

Still not a him

Apologies.

It's not intentional.

[KittyTacky]

This is a lot to take in, don't have the spoons rn, RN expect a response in ~3 hours or a bit later.

[Random Nurse]

This is a lot to take in, don't have the spoons rn, RN expect a response in ~3 hours or a bit later.

Take your time. I'll be here.

[Skygazer]

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

question: do u think elements would adjust to this as scum knowing u know this?

[Elements]

I would like those remaining four who voted for IAVH to very thoroughly explain why they limmed him.

The slot was actively detrimental to the game.
It the slot was scum, great.
If the slot was town, it won't be mislim bait in limlo, the thread won't be focused around it

[Elements]

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

question: do u think elements would adjust to this as scum knowing u know this?

I always try to adjust my scum play to match my town play when I roll scum

[OopsieDaisy]

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

question: do u think elements would adjust to this as scum knowing u know this?

If a scum!el is forced to avoid taking actions that actively manipulate the gamestate to their advantage and has to hide under the guise of playing their town game, that's good imo.

In terms of if they're capable of it, they definitely are I've been fooled before, but I've also learned that letting myself sit in paranoia about the slot for days on end isn't gonna help me solve it. Usually I listen to what my head is saying and right now it's either partnered with KKFC as scum or just town. There's the 20% chance I'm wrong here and El's adjusted well to my reads this game, but I don't want to let that worry dominate my thoughts here.

[Elements]

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

question: do u think elements would adjust to this as scum knowing u know this?

I always try to adjust my scum play to match my town play when I roll scum

Surely this is something everyone does

[OopsieDaisy]

Second thing, I've talked about this in Day 1 but my goal when reading Elements is to figure out how much agenda is behind their posting. If you're not seeing much rhyme or reason, chances are it's just town!elements doing things to poke/pressure/see how others react. If you're seeing El's votes/comments manipulating the gamestate, then it's scum!elements controlling the game.

question: do u think elements would adjust to this as scum knowing u know this?

I always try to adjust my scum play to match my town play when I roll scum

Surely this is something everyone does

Everyone tries. I think the key word is trying tho, it's a lot easier said than done.

Tho maybe my irl mafia experience clouds this as I've heard self-meta stuff is a lot easier to control over forum for a lotta people.

[Skygazer]

If a scum!el is forced to avoid taking actions that actively manipulate the gamestate to their advantage and has to hide under the guise of playing their town game, that's good imo.

In terms of if they're capable of it, they definitely are I've been fooled before, but I've also learned that letting myself sit in paranoia about the slot for days on end isn't gonna help me solve it. Usually I listen to what my head is saying and right now it's either partnered with KKFC as scum or just town. There's the 20% chance I'm wrong here and El's adjusted well to my reads this game, but I don't want to let that worry dominate my thoughts here.

Gotcha. I guess my concern was you just writing them off as potential scum too easily, felt like it could be coming from a place of buddying or tmi. But this makes sense.

[Skygazer]

I humbly request that I have some warning before any hammers, by the way. Or at least hammer when RH is likely sleeping. Thanks

[Skygazer]

i should actually read RN's posts soon i suppose

[OopsieDaisy]

If a scum!el is forced to avoid taking actions that actively manipulate the gamestate to their advantage and has to hide under the guise of playing their town game, that's good imo.

In terms of if they're capable of it, they definitely are I've been fooled before, but I've also learned that letting myself sit in paranoia about the slot for days on end isn't gonna help me solve it. Usually I listen to what my head is saying and right now it's either partnered with KKFC as scum or just town. There's the 20% chance I'm wrong here and El's adjusted well to my reads this game, but I don't want to let that worry dominate my thoughts here.

Gotcha. I guess my concern was you just writing them off as potential scum too easily, felt like it could be coming from a place of buddying or tmi. But this makes sense.

What is tmi? I've seen it mentioned in a few games I've read and I know what it stands for but the wiki doesn't give me anything when I search up tmi.

[Skygazer]

too much information; basically the idea that scum knows everyones alignments and will be more likely to give out unearned townreads since they dont have to actually solve

[OopsieDaisy]

too much information; basically the idea that scum knows everyones alignments and will be more likely to give out unearned townreads since they dont have to actually solve

Ahh I see, thanks

[Skygazer]

UNVOTE: Random Nurse

Is this because of the wall post?

Yep. I voted him to pressure content out, we now have some solvy content from the slot, no need for my vote to stay.

so you're townreading their content? what about it do you like? feels like you kinda gave up that vote on RN too easily.

[Skygazer]

Skygazer did mention IAVH being perceived as an easy target, and stated he didn't like DB's vote there. Going out on a limb here I could see this as Scum positioning themselves to look Town by being "apprehensive" about joining in on a wagon on an easy target.

To be frank I *do* Townread the notion of IAVH being an easy lim target, and I personally have a difficult time seeing IAVH acting the way he did as Scum, because Scum are trying to preserve themselves and he was basically running into volcano with his behavior.

last quote is talking about kitty for context. these takes seem contradictory and I'd like you to elaborate. is there anything about the way i went about iavh that seems different to the way kitty did in your mind? bc as of right now it seems like you're just trying to conjure justification rather than actually solving, considering you're offering two different takes for the same thought processes

[Random Nurse]

Skygazer did mention IAVH being perceived as an easy target, and stated he didn't like DB's vote there. Going out on a limb here I could see this as Scum positioning themselves to look Town by being "apprehensive" about joining in on a wagon on an easy target.

To be frank I *do* Townread the notion of IAVH being an easy lim target, and I personally have a difficult time seeing IAVH acting the way he did as Scum, because Scum are trying to preserve themselves and he was basically running into volcano with his behavior.

last quote is talking about kitty for context. these takes seem contradictory and I'd like you to elaborate. is there anything about the way i went about iavh that seems different to the way kitty did in your mind? bc as of right now it seems like you're just trying to conjure justification rather than actually solving, considering you're offering two different takes for the same thought processes

Could you clarify on which parts you say seem contradictory? Could you bold them please?

I do Townread the notion itself of IAVH being an easy mis-lim target, but at the same exact time Scum could position themselves to look Town by being "apprehensive" about joining in on the wagon of a perceived easy mis-lim target. I Townread the notion but not necessarily the player.

I do appreciate that Scum!Skygazer may look for ways to try and discredit a strong Town player, as well as strong Town reads posts. In awhile I will sift through your ISO as well.

[OopsieDaisy]

UNVOTE: Random Nurse

Is this because of the wall post?

Yep. I voted him to pressure content out, we now have some solvy content from the slot, no need for my vote to stay.

so you're townreading their content? what about it do you like? feels like you kinda gave up that vote on RN too easily.

the vote on RN wasn't an indication of a scumread, moreso a pressure vote to get RN making content in the first place. same line of thinking as my vote on him on Day 1 which had a similar goal, which I dropped cause of V/LA. it's an act of goodwill to take the vote away once he's making content ykno, and I can always reapply it if the content is bad.

but the thing is in terms of the content itself, of the bits I was able to take in it seemed pretty strong and I found myself nodding along a lot. don't know if this is just bias cause I know I'm town but I loved his point about how abrupt the Kitty read felt. the fact he doesn't see much agenda in el's play backs up my read there. disagree with the reasoning on kkfc, but that's because I liked the early push on them and the reason my read has improved there is because of the twilight reads and in general the way his play has improved without the pressure. tho i need to talk about 659 at some point i glossed over that in my readthrough of the new pages this morning.

i do wanna wait until i see the full picture before i give RN a seal of approval tho.

[OopsieDaisy]

tho yea i've hit a bit of a wall with scumreads, feels like my reads are very lopsided towards town. right now kitty is sticking out (but i know he's gonna have some content soon so wanna wait to react to that before pressuring) and kkfc is a very selfish flip that imo tells us a lot about the game (helps me solve slots like el, or pp/skygazer who were pushing there. obvs for others it might help sort me too cause i was also on that push) but kkfc's change in attitude from the defensive start of yesterday to the more offensive mode we've seen in twilight/today feels good in isolation.

i wanna do my next iso thingy on KKFC but i've done a lot of typing today and kinda wanna take a break, i'll get to it soon(tm)

[KittyTacky]

i would like to see you expand on the oopsie read and kkfc read if at all possible

KKFC: I was sheeping Delta viewtopic.php?p=13854680#p13854680

Oopsie: it just felt opportunistic. I don't really know how to fully describe it other than it felt like a weird jump on LHF town.

[KittyTacky]

Oopsie's #689 makes some sense but not enough for me to rescind the SL.

[KittyTacky]

Responses big, orange, and underlined.

KittyTacky

I noticed that your vote on me in 15 remained there the entirety of Day 1: it never moved. To be fair, mine never moved either, and the reason for this is that I haven't truly given this game the attention it deserved.

So did I! I wasn't paying much attention day 1 because I'm often demotivated D1.

As for 77, I am not new, and am an alt of Wake. On reread regarding that same post I do wonder why you said I was newish to Mafia, when in that post of mine you quoted 39 I had even mentioned I had a main account?

I missed it because I'm a bozo.

I suppose that matters little either way. 78 resonates with me because similarly I really, REALLY struggle with Day 1 because I have absolutely zero tangible evidence to work with: the game, for me as Town, actually starts with Day 2. Ah, I missed 82; that's fair. Just rereading 121 I was frustrated by

IAVH

's stupidity and not understanding that a miscounted voted can cause a mis-lim, compromising the game, which is a bad thing; I will say that being confrontational doesn't *necessarily* make one Town. It can be very easy to fake.

Yeah just I feel mafia doesn't risk it so early, as you can see the carelessness got IAVH killed.

To be frank I *do* Townread the notion of

IAVH

being an easy lim target, and I personally have a difficult time seeing

IAVH

acting the way he did as Scum, because Scum are trying to preserve themselves and he was basically running into volcano with his behavior. To be honest I was going to vote him as well but then I saw that he had already been hammered. I think we disagree on 301, in that I do suspect at least one Scum may have jumped on the opportunity to lim the village idiot—I would then expect the other to stay off it as a counterweight, meaning there's probably one on the wagon and one targeting someone else. As an aside I feel much more liberated playing as Town because I can just relax, take my time, and slowly analyze the game at my own pace without feeling the need to pretend.

I like playing scum because I don't feel like I'm floundering and adrift like I feel as town sometimes.

302 I'm not nearly as comfortable on: anyone with a colored username here has ample experience thus, in my opinion, will be FAR better at playing as either Town or Scum. Perhaps my view on this is flawed, but I doubt it; I have good reason to be worried *if*

PP

is Scum. I'm not easily inclined to write-off

Kitty

with a Townread because he Townread

IAVH

during Day 1; I do agree with him about

IAVH

but it's also exquisitely easy to fake as Scum (regarding 395. Also, at this very moment of typing I feel indifferent on

KKFC

.

428 is reasonable. I do approve of 647; I'm Townreading the notion. 648 I'd like to hear more on.

679... Hm. I would appreciate him sharing more why he Townreads

PP

Led town. I looked through the ISO and didn't really see any real scum motivation in PP's actions honestly. But PP is just one of those players who always seems townie to me so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

, and Scumreads

Oopsie

:

"I really really don't like the play around the hammer there honestly."

I feel like on

Oopsie

this is the first time he ever actually mentioned anything regarding them.

Yeah because they didn't catch my attention before and I slept/then was busy through the hammer.

The only two times he quoted

Oopsie

didn't shed much info: the prior was about ice cream and the latter about

"Yeah again if I try to rock the boat early D1, a townie usually dies so I don't see much incentive to do so."

That's it. Let me know if I'm being unfair

Kitty

, but if you were Scumreading

Oopsie

and have them on the bottom of your reads list, wouldn't you have posted anything or asked anything about/to that slot yet?

My scumread started with end of last day.

As I see it you've given no prior reasoning or inclination as to why you've placed

Oopsie

at the very bottom of your reads list: if you placed a player there wouldn't you have said something about it, ever? I'm hoping you're not just posing for us,

Kitty

, because I am watching you, and I'm biding my time for when you slip up.

I'm not going to vote you outright currently, but I will point a

Finger of Suspicion

at you currently.