Mafia 83 - Game Ended Scum Win!

[qwints]

Hazcow, everyone has posted. Can you explain what was so scummy about what I did?

[hasdgfas]

Hazcow, everyone has posted. Can you explain what was so scummy about what I did?

you gave him the answer to your own question. If his story doesn't match yours, we know one of you is lying, and it's probably him, but the fact that you said "Confirm this thing that I said" gives him an out. It's like telling your scumbuddy what your fakeclaim was and telling him not to screw it up.

[qwints]

Fair enough, but there was nothing in the post that wasn't already revealed already in the thread. Not to mention the fact that I can communicate during the day.

What's your take on xtoxm, hazcow?

[qwints]

I am now convinced by the non-response by xtoxm that he is scum.

vote: xtoxm

[bionicchop2]

vote xtoxm

[qwints]

Since scum will always hammer when doing so wins;
and hascow and lawrencelot have had the opportunity to hammer:
Therefore, hascow and lawrencelot cannot win by hammering.

This leave only two possibilities:
xtoxm is scum;
and/or both hascow and lawrencelot are town.
Thus if hascow and lawrencelot are not not town then xtoxm is scum.

If hascow and lawrencelot were town and
we have 2 mafia,
then 2 of xtoxm, bionic and I are scum.

A townie would not falsely confirm another player as town
Lawrencelot has confirmed me as town
Therefore I cannot be scum unless lawrencelot is scum.

There is thus no possible situation where xtoxm is not scum or we are not in lynch or lose.
There are only 2 possible scum pairs assuming 2 mafia:
xtoxm and hascow.
xtoxm and lawrencelot.

We therefore cannot lost be lynching xtoxm.

[qwints]

ebwop*
We therefore can't lose by lynching xtoxm.

[Xtoxm]

Unvote Vote Xtoxm

[qwints]

and xtoxm vanished in a puff of logic.

[qwints]

Since I'm almost certainly going to be killed tonight, here's my current thinking:

lawrencelot could have made a lot of hay out of denying my claim if he were scum. Confirming my claim probably increased the chances of a scum lynch. My death tonight will confirm he is a mason, though I repeat that I do not have role info that he is town. I see him as the most likely to be town.

Hascow has been fairly scummy today, and I've expressed suspicion about him for much of the game. His fighting against my claim isn't necessarily a scum sign, but is certainly consistent with him being so. Xtoxm's hedging in his attacks against Hascow is another bad sign. BUT I thought his fight against the panzer lynch was quite pro-town.

Bionic has been anti-hascow since he showed up. His efforts to validate my claim certainly don't make a lot of sense if he was scum. He named xtoxm as the second most likely to be scum. Once I moved to lynch xtoxm, he moved quickly towards the lynch. I would be surprised if here scum, but he's certainly not proven innocent.

Go town!

[bionicchop2]

If xtoxm is town after that self-vote, I will hunt him down IRL and kick him in the balls.

[MafiaSSK]

Day Five Lynch

The five villagers had gathered aroudn the town's center. They knew that if today they didn't hang a sucm they'd be going down. They threw suspicions around. Even one of the quiet people suddenlys tarted speaking. And then fianlly they reached a concensus. Xotxm would be going into the noose. So two of the villagers pushed him in. When then, all of a sudden, Xtoxm leaped into the noose. He then fell down, dead. A black 80 millimeter pistol fell out of his pocket.

Xtoxm was a Mafia Goon

Night 5 deadline will last 72 hours.

[MafiaSSK]

Night 5

This takes place during the night before the day.

"Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz" said Qwints in his sleep. And boy was he asleep. He was dreaming about his paradise where he could find all of the bananas and cheese and cake he could ever want.
When suddenly.

Creeeeeeek

, foot steps were heard. No one knew how many people were walking inside his house. And then they got the rug, covered a gun in the rug, and shot.

Whizzzzzzzzz

was the last sound of Qwints life. The bullet landed int he center of his forehead going a few inches in to his brain. This caused the brain to overreact and do various things to his body even though he was dead. He started sweeping his arms around and flailing. When then, out of no where his chest started to grow bigger and bigger. When, all of a sudden it burst open. Blood flew around everywhere, his heart no longer beating lay on the bed.
The anonymous killer(s) stealthily left the house and without a sound went to their own to sleep.

Now it is sunrise

Then sun rose upon the village. AS they all gathered around the center. They all noticed how there were only 3 of them remaining. surely, at least one of them would be the killer(s). Then they didn't see Qwints. One of them yelled out "Oh no. My mason Buddy!".
They all immediately went to their house searching for Qwints knowing the killer's style of killing.
What they found their shocked the person who screamed that their mason buddy was gone. The blood sprayed about was amazing. They then discovered, the notes the two mason buddies had passed between each other. Each one with different styles of writing. They would all miss

Qwints who was a town mason.

Day 6 deadline is New Year's Eve

[Lawrencelot]

I've reread everything, hasdgfas looks (almost obv)scum to me, and qwints agreed. What do you think bio?

IIRC, has hasn't claimed yet. I request a claim.

[bionicchop2]

I've reread everything, hasdgfas looks (almost obv)scum to me, and qwints agreed. What do you think bio?

IIRC, has hasn't claimed yet. I request a claim.

I am entering today with an open mind. I have stated Has as my top suspect for the past few days now, so yes right now he is my top choice for scum. I am definitely interested in what hascow has to say today.

He has claimed as we mass-claimed yesterday. Both of us claimed townie.

[hasdgfas]

Read up until page 20,

would like to note that Xtoxm's play has been surprisingly protown considering my meta on him.

I found this a bit interesting, actually. Lawrence, what about his play seemed protown to you?

Also, Lawrencelot still hasn't said

anything

game-related. It's as though he's trying to just sneak by.

[bionicchop2]

Has - please provide your opinion on both myself and lawrence and the likelihood of either being scum from your perspective.

Lawrence - I would like for you to do the same and state why you feel has is obv-scum and you adress me as if you think I am town.

Right now, I am about 90% on Has-scum with a 10% chance of Lawrence-scum. Since this game has had some pauses, I will have to revisit my d3 thinking on Has to remember the full reasoning of my initial suspicions of him. I do know that he held minimal in game interaction with Yaw (outside of random vote) and xtoxm. He mentioned xtoxm throwing an OMGUS vote at me and did mention it was scummy, but prior to that he rarely addressed him at all.

Reclusion as we know was MIA for a good portion of the game. He never got the the temporary replacement he requested and then disappeared after returning from vacation. What I did read of his play didn't strike me as scummy. The only issue is that my game reading is stronger when I am in the game - reading what happened before I joined is harder for me to do since I pick things up better in context.

One thing that sticks out for me was xtoxm jumping on reclusion when he was gone (2 days ago - when K7 was lynched). At the time, I think Has was the top vote getter (but he only maybe had like 2 votes?). In hindsight it looks like a distraction tactic.

I will

FoS Has

. I won't vote until I hear both Lawrence and Has respond to my request.

[bionicchop2]

I was typing while you were Has. My FoS was not related to your last post.

[hasdgfas]

Has - please provide your opinion on both myself and lawrence and the likelihood of either being scum from your perspective.

well, I'll answer this question because my post isn't really answering that.

I think Lawrencelot is scum. I think it's you who have been saying that Lawrence is probably town because SSK used the same roles in his other game. That's pretty much the definition of outguessing the mod, and should not be used to say he's doing the same thing again. I'd honestly expect him to switch it up the second time so that people do what you did and are wrong, but that's not the main reason.

Lawrence hasn't said

anything

and is trying to just slide by without making himself a target just because I've been such an easy target.

I don't remember Reclusion doing anything scummy because I don't remember Reclusion doing anything either. I suppose I could try to do a PBPA of Reclusion, but I can't do one on Lawrencelot because he hasn't said anything.

I don't think you're scum because I haven't seen you do anything scummy. I'm frustrated that you have been going after me since you replaced in, but I'm not feeling ulterior motives from you.

[bionicchop2]

Thank you for your quick answer.

My main reasoning wasn't that SSK would never use the role and actually have mafia. Like you, I didn't see anything scummy from reclusion. I agree Lawrence has not contributed yet, but he only played one day and it was our shortest day, right? That is why I am not jumping out and voting you, because today is the day to force that contribution. If he is just trying to lay low, I hope I can find that out today.

When we originally spoke about the masons, you were originally suspecting BOTH qwints and reclusion. You even FOS'd qwints yesterday. Like I said, qwints would have had to research the mod and found a role he used in his games before coming up with the claim. Possible, yes, but not probable from a very new player. With a SK in the game too, it is a very unconventional gambit as any confirmed town has to hope 2 different factions don't target them.

Remembering back to d3, my suspicions peaked when you seemed to accept that Panj was a town role blocker and never once suspected he could be lying. Now I understand you know him and there is a chance he would try to block you if he had a role. Maybe we have different reactions when we are town and somebody claims a role which seems to incriminate us. My first reaction is generally that the player is lying. That was the spring point of my suspicions. The actions since then haven't really eased that initial suspicion. Bulleted main points since then:

- focus on qwints and reclusion. I can understand suspicions of reclusion from a game mechanic standpoint of not outguessing the mod. I think the suspicion of qwints is where I felt most uncomfortable. It also seemed like you kept mentioning them as possible scum without outlining any kind of case to show either as probable scum.

- next to zero suspicion of xtoxm until he was on the block. Maybe it is my extensive game experience with him over the past few weeks, but he strayed from his town meta. Either way, dwindling numbers should have required a look at him as potential scum.

- I can't really recall who your suspects have been. Like I said, you have stated possible scum often, but never really said "I think ____ is scum for this reason". Now, I can appreciate being open to possibilities, cautious, etc. I can also understand some gut feelings that don't have a million reasons that can be typed up. I just feel like there was no genuine scum hunting attempts. This last point can be applied to Reclusion and Lawrence as well. Today is the day for both to change it IMO.

[hasdgfas]

focus on qwints and reclusion. I can understand suspicions of reclusion from a game mechanic standpoint of not outguessing the mod. I think the suspicion of qwints is where I felt most uncomfortable. It also seemed like you kept mentioning them as possible scum without outlining any kind of case to show either as probable scum.

It was a terrible claim. There was zero reason for it in that situation, and I often keep suspicion on people who claim in terrible situations even when I shouldn't. The qwints FoS yesterday was reflex seeing someone do something really, really scummy. It wasn't really a "I think you're scum" FoS. It was a "Don't ever do that again" FoS.

next to zero suspicion of xtoxm until he was on the block. Maybe it is my extensive game experience with him over the past few weeks, but he strayed from his town meta. Either way, dwindling numbers should have required a look at him as potential scum.

I felt there were other higher priority targets. I'm not going to go after someone that I think is lower priority than someone else, and Xtoxm wasn't as high priority for me, although he should have been.

Remembering back to d3, my suspicions peaked when you seemed to accept that Panj was a town role blocker and never once suspected he could be lying. Now I understand you know him and there is a chance he would try to block you if he had a role. Maybe we have different reactions when we are town and somebody claims a role which seems to incriminate us. My first reaction is generally that the player is lying.

I've modded Panzer in one of my games and I think I've played with him before, so his actions seemed consistent with what I know of him, even though he was completely and totally wrong.

but he only played one day and it was our shortest day, right?

That shouldn't really make a difference. Someone replacing in should be ready to throw out their thoughts immediately


I'll take a look at Reclusion and see what I can find with everything that's happened.

[Lawrencelot]

Why I found Xtoxm protown (although it changed a bit later in the game): look at his play in Mafia 85. hasdgfas is the backup mod there, but when I backup I don't always read the game if nothing happens, so not sure if you've been following the game has. The game is ongoing, but Xtoxm is dead and showed up town, and I myself found his play incredibly scummy there. His play here was at least neutral, which is way more protown than in that game. But apparently he's one of those persons that play more protown as scum.

Oh, and I am NOT trying to sneak by. Why do you think my vote is not on you? I am aware that I still haven't contributed, but if bio was ~100% sure you were scum I wouldn't need to. I don't have the time to make a decent case on hasdgfas, but it comes down to this:

1) Has has been playing very similar to the way I play as scum. One thing that stood out to me was his reaction to Patrick's "guilty" on him. I as scum usually try to find solutions for why that is "possible", and this is precisely what Has has been doing, rather than not believing him or something.
2) The reaction to the mason claim. As someone said, it is in scum's interest to cast doubt on that claim, because assuming the claim is true narrows the possible scum down to very few people.
3) You thinking I'm scum. Granted, I agree that bio has been playing very protown, but "outguessing the mod" is not a reason for me being scum, I'm not the one outguessing. It just makes me not confirmed town, which is something very different.
4) qwints thinks you're scum
5) I think bio is protown, he's been acting protown, and should he be scum I'm willing to lose from such a good opponent

Vote: hasdgfas

[bionicchop2]

Vote: hasdgfas

[MafiaSSK]

Day 6 Lynch/End Game

The last 3 survivors had finally begun their meeting of who was the final scum. Bionicchop2 quickly threw an insult which sounded as if it weren't that hasdgfas was probably scum. Hascow then fought for his life about why he wasn't scum. Then Lawrencelot joined the battle put his case up on why he wasn't scum and pushed Hascow closer to the gallows.Ceizing, his chance bionichop2 kicked Hascow into the gallows to face his doom.
Here, they discovered that

Hascow was a regular townsperson

Lawrencelot slowly backed away closer to his house. But no, bionicchop2 wouldn't let him. Bionic threw himself around lawrencelot and made him go unconscience.
"

Now was the time to strike

" Bionic thought to himself. Bionic only had one bullet left in his gun but he had some C4 as well.
Bionic put all of the C4 he had on to lawrencelot's knocked out body.
Bionic moved a distance away from the village.
"Time to end with a boom" said Bionic. He then shot his bullet at the C4 with perfect aim.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Whosethatville had been destroyed.
It was the best day ever for Bionicchop2 to hear that joyous sound reach his ears.
Bionicchop2 walked away satisfied with his accomplishment and put an orange in his mouth. Because

Bionicchop2, the Mafia Godfather has won the game for the mafia.

Good game scum.

[hasdgfas]

5) I think bio is protown, he's been acting protown, and should he be scum I'm willing to lose from such a good opponent

First off, I'd like to say this. Bionic, you played very well, and had me fooled. Well done.


Now, my complaints.

The modding in this game was absolutely horrible.

The first thing is that in the first post, I can't tell who replaced whom, and that is extremely important in the game, to remember who is for whom.

Next, you changed Rule 14 to say that you would post votecounts when asked, yet later you decided to say that we "still need one more for a vote count". What, exactly, was that supposed to be?

Vote counts day 1 were all right, but we got all of 1 vote count the rest of the game from you, which is completely unacceptable for a mod.

Next, not giving replacers what their predecessor has done is terrible. Almost everyone will ask for it, so why not give it to them anyway?

Why did you ask whether or not to modkill? That's supposed to be a mod decision. Always look for a replacement first.

When you were searching for a replacement for Reclusion, you didn't post in the Replacements Thread. How are we supposed to believe that you were searching for a replacement when you didn't post in a place specifically for that?

Deadlines should

NEVER

be over a holiday break. You had one during Thanksgiving break, and if it went that long, on New Year's Eve as well. Why? Sure, it might "fit your formula", but actually think about that day first.

You just disappeared and had the backup mod take over for a bit, then showed back up, and still made the backup post a vote count. I thought you had forgotten about this game, in all honesty.

I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting, but I was really angry about this modding for the entire game, because it ruined what could have been a good game. I stopped caring partway through, because it seemed like the mod didn't care, and if he doesn't care about his own game, why should I?