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[Hu Tao]

I've made up my mind about a few things. I'm willing to change starfire from scummy to town probably maybe depending on their posts. bob keeps telling me hu tao is town so I might maybe just move hu tao as well.

town

PC
Happy
civil ape
kkfc

lean town

RN
save dragons

null

yimm
bellaphant

lean scum

hu tao
starfire
greeting

scum

naerys
bob

VOTE: bob

Bob and I have played together a few times together, possible he feels comfortable reading me. Same way I feel comfortable in reading StD since we've played a few times together as well.

[Hu Tao]

Thanks, I missed the earlier answer at first. Can you say why it seemed legit to you?

Also Yimmy, thanks for replacing, but is that even before the deadline?

Greeting, I guess my style is to bring as much evidence as I can muster against my suspects and see if I like their defense. Also I said you advocate for a lurkish strat as being smart, not that you necessarily lurk, although this game I feel it’s a valid accusation.

I dont think as scum he would claim to be bulletproof. Just the claim that he is miller made him safe from a night kill, well atleast the first one. Unless he is dangerous to the scum.

I agree that RN I don't want today. I don't think as scum he'd claim BP Miller. I think town has more incentive than scum to claim BP. So I could lean town just on claim alone.

[Hu Tao]

Why can't they be new scum

Because they seem to be giving their best and I can see the reasons behind the reads, even if I disagree with them. New scum usually goes for stuff that doesn't make sense in my experience

[Hu Tao]

I feel comfortable posting my thoughts in a reads list now.

[Hu Tao]

bob3141 - slight town read, acting similar to what I've seen from him as town

Random Nurse - I don't see him claiming Miller BP as scum. As if he had BP as scum, he'd keep it quiet until if there is a potential vig hits him. So I think he could be town here

iamveryhappy - Get town vibes from him right away.

Greeting - scummy. I don't like how he contradicted himself in calling me out for no content when he had none for himself. As I said earlier looks like he just saw people talking about me and Naerys as potential votes and voted one of us.

Yimmy- need to see more. Not sure

Civil Scum- had some town posting early, so likely don't want today

Bellaphant- Haven't seen them in a bit but from what I saw I liked, so I think they could be town

Political Clout - I'm not sure how to read them yet tbh. I'll keep at null

Save The Dragons - possibly could be town, but can be hard to read. I feel their alignment gets clearly as the days go.

Naerys - I think they are town but just new, don't want today.

Starfire - need to look into them more. I don't remember much from them.

KatyKimFanClub - Had some town posting, likely won't want today.

[Hu Tao]

Not in any order. But I would for sure want

VOTE: Greeting

Today.

[Civil Scum]

See I don’t think there’s any good reason for RN to claim BP if he really is a townie either. Why not let the mafia waste a kill as well?

He has dodged the question before though… and suggested that he is perhaps inviting us to speculate.

I need to reread through some of this Hu Tao, Naerys, Bob stuff.

As to my thoughts on Greeting, I think he is very scummy so far. And I am getting a bit of townie vibes from Naerys defense as well.

[Hu Tao]

See I don’t think there’s any good reason for RN to claim BP if he really is a townie either. Why not let the mafia waste a kill as well?

He has dodged the question before though… and suggested that he is perhaps inviting us to speculate.

I need to reread through some of this Hu Tao, Naerys, Bob stuff.

As to my thoughts on Greeting, I think he is very scummy so far. And I am getting a bit of townie vibes from Naerys defense as well.

I guess that's a good point. But what if there is a vig? Isn't the protocol as town to claim your bp?

[Civil Scum]

I don’t know, some of the modifiers and roles are new to me.

I’m just going to come out and say it since I don’t care for these PR games.

The only reason I can see for scum is to explain their survival or to later claim a PR.

This is because the only legit reasons (ie not heavier weighting a gamble on vigs over a mafia nk) are vanilla townie self preservation, or because he has a power role and wants to discourage a nk.

Hopefully this conclusion was his intent, which means at the end of the day he may have been telling the truth all along, guiding a Mafia NK to a BP target.

[Civil Scum]

Hell I’m BP too, what can it hurt to claim LOL

[Hu Tao]

I can see that reasoning, but I think either way I don't want him today.

[Hu Tao]

Hell I’m BP too, what can it hurt to claim LOL

Well if he's town I guess that's up to scum to decide to kill him or not

[bob3141]

Hell I’m BP too, what can it hurt to claim LOL

Your meant to claim your super powerful town pr that inst in the slightest way bullet proof and is macho too

[KatyKimFanClub]

A bulletproof miller indicates to me there’s a vig in the game. From a setup standpoint, I’m not sure why else the Miller would be bulletproof. Looking at the archives, the only other game with a 1-shot bulletproof Miller did have a vig.

Now, if we get to endgame and there isn’t a vig shot or claim, then I’ll be a little suspicious.

Iavh what do you think of this analysis?

[Naerys]

What do you think about my exchange with Hu Tao?

Hu seems rather defensive to me. I have to admit i barely read that exchange but now looking back at it Hu looks suspicious to me.

That's just my personality at times, I can show you town games of similar personality. So taking that out of the equation, what else do you think is scummy?

Fair enough, apart from that exchange with Random, there is nothing tangible.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Hu Tao who is your second most likely scumread?

[Bellaphant]

I've made up my mind about a few things. I'm willing to change starfire from scummy to town probably maybe depending on their posts. bob keeps telling me hu tao is town so I might maybe just move hu tao as well.

town

PC
Happy
civil ape
kkfc

lean town

RN
save dragons

null

yimm
bellaphant

lean scum

hu tao
starfire
greeting

scum

naerys
bob

VOTE: bob

Bob is way too low, greeting is maybe town, ST D is....sure a read, talk me through that one? And the Bob one, honestly

Did kkfc not respond to my walk through their iso? I'm sure I raised some talking points.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Did kkfc not respond to my walk through their iso? I'm sure I raised some talking points.

Been really busy with other stuff going on in this game and also IRL. I'll get to it in a bit.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I will say though at the time I didn't want to respond since you didn't leave post links.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Kkfc's first five posts are mainly about theory and game: it's fine.
6 is fine to start with, but the make it hurt is weird.
The follow up in 8 9 10 is poor, 11 is much better but why did it take four posts to get to a sensible answer (the fact that it's taken a dialogue suggests to me that 6 8 9 10 were poor for other people too)
12 isn't great, 13 is better
I disagree with a lot of 18 but can see the thought process
Happy with the std Sus
I still think the defense of a player who isn't here and isn't under that much pressure is weird. If they were a leading wagon, id be less weirded out
The first half of 25 looks really town and the second half feels like reaching for a conclusion you already know.
Why are the tr on me fine? I wasn't really aware anyone was apart from civil, and that's because I seen to just be agreeing with them a lot
You thinking I'm scum reading you isn't quite what I'm saying, though. I think it's more town that you are this jumpy, maybe. Even your paranoid about 'starting the convo ': I meant funneling it down to this.
I like the std vote.

I'm willing to think this is just me having issues with your communication style.

63

(6)

: From my point of view, Civil is someone whose emotion and earnestness is going to bleed through even when trying to deceive people as scum. If we can make the wagon look more genuine as we get further away from RVS (aka make it hurt), it would have been easier to get a read on him as well as how other people would react to it. Also at this time I was actually pretty convinced he thought he was in danger (coming from an earlier post of his that I don't recall)

Regarding the dialogue around the post

(#8,9,10)

, I was actually surprised that people (I guess just Naerys) were confused by what I meant. I think at the end of the day this has to be a wording thing. Naerys originally thought I actually wanted to eliminate Civil, which wasn't the case. If you're saying these posts are "poor" because they come across as scum vibes or something I can't defend myself against that I can only say what I made those posts, which I hope this explanation helped clear up.


In regards to your read on my defense of Bazuf starting around 304

(#22, 24, 25)

, I don't really see the downside in my defense? Like, do you see how my points about meta, emojis, etc were valid? Even if it only shifts our reads a little bit in the right way it was worth it. Also, it's not really like there was other stuff going on at the time. I could see an argument I'm trying to obfuscate town or something, but as you said, there really wasn't any real pressure on Bazuf, so personally I don't see the scum motivation in this (I am biased here of course). I just like to try to set the record straight on things?

I'm actually interested in what you mean by "reaching for a conclusion

already know" in 320 (post #25 for me). Are you saying the conclusion is that I knew Bazuf was going to get replaced? Or that I knew people were pushing him for inactivity?


In regards to why I thought a townread on you was justified in 305

(#23)

, your opening just sounded town when I reread it. I didn't really mean too much by it, it was literally just like when I was rereading the opening your posts stood out to me.


I just thought you were scumreading me by post 328

(#30)

because of the 'this is shade btw' comment. I thought you meant that you were actively pushing me at that point.

Question for you after all this talk about myself: do you still hold the same read compared to when you originally made the post? Also, has your read of StD changed at all?

[KatyKimFanClub]

If you're saying these posts are "poor" because they come across as scum vibes or something I can't defend myself against that I can only say what I made those posts, which I hope this explanation helped clear up.

To clarify, what I mean is that I've can only explain my reasoning behind making 63, which is that at the time I thought Civil thought his wagon had real momentum, which would make reading him way easier.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm actually pretty frustrated how people were/are saying my defense of Bazuf was over the top. When I reread that conversation my original defense was quite straightforward and mostly attempting to rebut or clarify things that were objectively incorrect. It's not like I was screaming out into the void, there were people pushing what I thought was a really bad read who were responding to me.

[KatyKimFanClub]

@PC can you walk me through your reads, or at least the one on Bob? Give me one of your wallposts if you're up for it.

[Civil Scum]

Hell I’m BP too, what can it hurt to claim LOL

Your meant to claim your super powerful town pr that inst in the slightest way bullet proof and is macho too

You mean how I am a 2-shot Vig?

[Bellaphant]

Cool, I think we are saying the same thing about the civil/nearys convo: there was a misunderstanding. I think what you've said now is actually what you thought then and that's fine.

I think the bazuf thing bothered me because his push on me felt really bad, but as you said, he hasn't been back. I think activity is nai and it felt like you were implying it wasn't, but reading back that might be a me issue.

The shade thing was also kind of a joke: I'm sure someone had been talking about shade and I was just messing about.

My read on who? You? You are probably town from this chat. I could see std being scum really easily, I've identified them as town fairly quickly in other games. I think if there is scum pushing lhf it's those pushing hu, not std