Micro 1087 | It's normal | It's over!

[medeia]

like my point isn't that the nightkill doesn't make sense for one player in a vacuum and such

like it's not that skitter wouldn't have killed brassherald

it's that skitter/t3 would have to have been taking a detour from winning the game for unknown reasons

[medeia]

i thought she was on confirm medeia tr step if following the plan

which she may be and i don't really know how to towncase myself and i don't really want to end up in situation where i'm just saying 'i'm town' over and over like in slaughter hour hell pt with ydrasse i know that that is super frustrating for everyone and will do my very very best to remain reasonable

[medeia]

im obviously not the shooter i would never shoot brassherald or sheepbro in a million years

yesyes none of us would make the nightkill i get it

somebody did make the nightkill so

... i know

another somebody knows about it too

maybe they're both complicit in such an act

idk sorry i know i didn't and i probably wouldn't were i a scums either tho it feels mostly impossible to figure out what the game would even look like to make that call definitively

but like you said someone did and yeah

[medeia]

why would skitter!scum shoot you if you're letting her drive the boat?

because if she was partnered with t3 and shoots me then chicagotypewriter is nearly free elimination, no?

like i'm not saying scum!skitter would always blanket shoot me no matter what

also i'm not entirely sure she'd assume that'd be the case i can be a pretty antsy passenger which she knows

[medeia]

because if she was partnered with t3 and shoots me then chicagotypewriter is nearly free elimination, no?

like is there any realistic opposition to this? maybe the lack of opposition would be the only opposition? but that's generally ineffective outside of rare circumstances

[medeia]

Okay, I'm doing a little better on catch-up. The most important thing here is I needed to make sure I actually want to keep my RVS vote on T3.

Overall:
-T3 seriously voted for Kcdaspot 31, unvoted

six minutes later

34, and then seemed to indicate that the initial vote wasn't icky 226. I'm not a fan of this voting behavior.
-T3 supports Random Nurse over Medeia (and who in turn supports T3 back). I'm not sure I like this. Calling them a scumteam seems a bit too obvious as this point given how much they're supporting each other, but ... well, it's kind of weird from my perspective, given I have a scumlean on Random Nurse right now; given his main gripe against Medeia is the refusal to add a vote for pressure.
-T3 is currently at E-2 with my vote, I believe. I'm find with this.

Decision: Vote stays. I'm going to work on the rest of the catchup, be back in a bit. (By which I mean later today, if I can get to it.)

This just looks so beyond unaligned

idk with this i still worry that like, he made this whole case and everything for keeping the rvs vote and then when he finished the readslist the next time he was posting he moved his vote to random nurse saying it wasn't doing anything and such citing t3 not reacting to it and it's kinda hm to me and there was expected pressure on random nurse from his perspective from pooky/me

but yeah it is a case for partner at e-2 nonetheless

[medeia]

like i do get that

[medeia]

Maybe its ct/pooky

527 to 532

still feel like pooky would had to have been sending chicagotypewriter into a claim situation intentionally with a plan in place

which doesn't seem impossible i guess

but so hard for me to answer why

[medeia]

Maybe its ct/pooky

527 to 532

still feel like pooky would had to have been sending chicagotypewriter into a claim situation intentionally with a plan in place

which doesn't seem impossible i guess

but so hard for me to answer why

could you look at this please is what i was trying to ask there, sorry

[medeia]

but i guess chicagotypewriter was also ready with a defense too

[medeia]

the skitter pivot off chicago at eod does not look natural

and then cold feet on meuh after when she and i were talking and i was deciding would have been for show?

[medeia]

the skitter pivot off chicago at eod does not look natural

and then cold feet on meuh after when she and i were talking and i was deciding would have been for show?

hmhmhm,

did you (pooky) think i was going to end up voting meuh there? or do you think skitter would have assumed that,

[medeia]

well she offered meuh/ct as a binary choice to me

I think she was surprised I wanted to do CT because I p much ignored her original case on him so she ended up moving to vote him after I said I wanted to yeet him

then he came back and her foot was back on the meuh train

i guess i mostly meant later on one sec i'll find the posts

[medeia]

eh nevermind maybe i guess this:

Ahhhhhhhh maybe meuh is town here
I have a really hard time limming day1 pr claims >.>

is the only one that actually came after she said she was leaning meuh

for some reason i thought these did too:

Ehhhhhhh i'm cool with voting out meuh
But i can see myself voting ct here again too

I was in his scumgame and he feels kinda similar here tbh
I don't see why 333 is egregious, feels like an easy post

Pedit heya

but she posted a preference for meuh between them

[medeia]

the skitter pivot off chicago at eod does not look natural

and then cold feet on meuh after when she and i were talking and i was deciding would have been for show?

hmhmhm,

did you (pooky) think i was going to end up voting meuh there? or do you think skitter would have assumed that,

I dunno what she thought about you voting - I think she just assumed I'd defer to her because I didn't really care that much

when she townread meuh at the end there when i was voting if i vote chicagotypewriter over meuh then chicagotypewriter is likely hammered instead in the morning as random nurse would then not be able to hammer meuh and such

so like, i guess maybe it seems risky for her if partnered with chicagotypewriter but not as risky as i previously thought but still risky

[medeia]

when i was voting

*when i was deliberating

i'm tired

[medeia]

like I don't see where skitter in the 600s actually is going to actually vote Chicago dude

i guess i didn't feel like she was going to vote chicagotypewriter either but if i did it wouldn't matter right?

i dunno maybe i'm struggling too much to divorce this from my perspective

like at the time she was saying maybe meuh's town i was already questioning the same thing like parts of my discussion with meuh there definitely felt pretty towny to me and that's on me for trusting the whispers and not the voices

but if i vote chicagotypewriter then he is likely eliminated instead

[medeia]

i'm going to get tea quick to try to look at this with clearer head

[medeia]

VC 1.17

T3 (1): ChicagoTypewriter
ChicagoTypewriter (2): Meuh, Random Nurse
Meuh (3): skitter30, PookyTheMagicalBear, ceejayvinoya

Not voting: T3, sheepsaysmeep, medeia

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate someone. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-07-18 15:59:37).

even if you voted for CT here doesn't that just tie it at 3-3?

like i dont see why she doesnt go back to the bus chicago plan if she doesnt have the votes for meuh?

t3 voted for chicagotypewriter sometime between then and my discussion with meuh

so my vote would have put chicagotypewriter to 4 with someone likely needing to hammer

at which point if partnered she could have gone back to bus plan yeah

[medeia]

i'm going to get tea quick to try to look at this with clearer head

its kind of late for tea no? just get some rest and we can talk tomorrow

idk you've actually felt like solve-the-game pooky for the first time this game to me tonight and i've still got an hour before actually

needing

to go to bed so i can get through big post and such at the very least

[medeia]

you've actually felt like solve-the-game pooky for the first time this game to me tonight

which maybe out of necessity deep well i know but yeah

[medeia]

ok bear with me here

this is the EOD progression;

these first two sections are the posts i wanted skitter to look at because they don't seem all that likely to come from scum!you if partnered with chicagotypewriter to me

and this reaction is kind of bizarre to me on a reread - like if she thinks he's scum why did she vote meuh and like the part about voteparking him for a week feels kind of extra? like trying to take more credit for a flip that hasnt happened that she doesnt know the result of.

so at this point it would have to be the same situation as with you/chicagotypewriter i was discussing before, like yeah it's possible planned claim and such, but at this point once you are both voting chicagotypewriter i think wheels would have to be in motion for that thus the claim and prepared defense and such

here her foot is already starting to come off the gas and steer back towards meuh b4 CT even claims.

i felt same way about meuh posting in that moment as did ceejayvinoya i believe but i think(?) i had already posted that so i guess it's possible skitter would have used that to her advantage

just like, yeah idk i felt that way pretty strongly about those meuh posts like she had just come and realigned all her reads to situationally beneficial ones for her or so it seemed

so it seems reasonable to me like idk how to go about telling the difference in this case like if you say 'if skitter is mafia, what was she doing in this case?' i can see it but it doesn't feel like natural conclusion really

and making excuses for chicago and why he seems scummy

i don't believe CT and she shoots me down and claims I should know better and starts doubting my alignment

and again with these i can maybe see it if working from conclusion like she is quick to accept the claim as enough for today when we are both openly doubting it in different ways that is true

and all three of us (me, skitter, chicagotypewriter) were in that newbie with malakittens so they could have in theory been working from that knowledge with the claim

and skitter would also have that knowledge to work from with regards to how to react to the claim as she was town in the newbie

but even then that just makes it possible for her to have done so as a scums and i could see how it might have been orchestrated if so

like it's not unlikely to me that chicagotypewriter could have orchestrated it without skitter and the reason skitter's reaction was similar and expected is because it was a similar situation and that's how she'd generally react to that situation

[medeia]

Yeah meuh's acquiescence makes me a little concerned tbh

also this doesnt even make sense because meuh's the first vote on CT and never even posted between the wagon swinging to CT and this skitter post pumping the brakes

i think(?) this was with regards to larger pattern of meuh posting that i was posting about at that time, like i had just made two posts about this and i think skitter was simply agreeing with them, at least if she's town

even if she's scum i think it'd still be apropos of my posting

[medeia]

like i kind of think skitter doesnt want to yeet chicago and then have to shoot medeia at night because then she is at f3 with me/t3 and thats not an easy f3 for her to win? like if she needs to win she needs to yeet me at f5 and she can't do that without an excuse

hence her exercise with the pairing or whatever

okay but then why the angling towards chicagotypewriter right now from scum!her perspective?

[medeia]

like i kind of think skitter doesnt want to yeet chicago and then have to shoot medeia at night because then she is at f3 with me/t3 and thats not an easy f3 for her to win? like if she needs to win she needs to yeet me at f5 and she can't do that without an excuse

hence her exercise with the pairing or whatever

okay but then why the angling towards chicagotypewriter right now from scum!her perspective?

or do you just think she's not actually ?

[medeia]

like i kind of think skitter doesnt want to yeet chicago and then have to shoot medeia at night because then she is at f3 with me/t3 and thats not an easy f3 for her to win? like if she needs to win she needs to yeet me at f5 and she can't do that without an excuse

hence her exercise with the pairing or whatever

like why wouldn't scum!her just move the exercise with the pairing around to reach a similar conclusion to the one i had already made to try to eliminate t3 instead?

and why right now after all of this would she arrive here:

I think i want to vote ct here, actually

[medeia]

the pairing exercise was her buildup to vote for me?

yes but it could be her buildup to vote t3

like i had already laid out why i thought it wasn't you/chicagotypewriter, right

and especially after t3 made his reads post like if t3 is town and thinks skitter is mafia,

(and if t3 is town whichever of you is a scums would likely have been playing around this; could be why you might want to force you v skitter etc)

why wouldn't skitter have evaluated chicagotypewriter/pooky world to be the unlikely one, and use the same exact logic she used with regards to chicagotypewriter/t3 likelihood of being paired

to try to eliminate t3?

[medeia]

cuz she's been tunneling me all game? like it feels pretty weird to swerve at the end and aim at T3 instead?

but she could have just arranged it to aim at t3 in the first place, right, and then also have been 'convinced' by me or whatever,

like i guess it doesn't feel like she was stuck to me

[medeia]

if anything i think it would have been more of a blinders situation like she just didn't see the options rather than they weren't there if she is a scums

[medeia]

cuz she's been tunneling me all game? like it feels pretty weird to swerve at the end and aim at T3 instead?

but she can still say you/t3 or chicagotypewriter/t3 like she doesn't have to hard commit to one

and i don't think i had fully explained why i thought you/t3 and her/t3 were super unlikely at that point

so in theory scum!her could have also felt that i thought that was a somewhat likely scenario

[medeia]

I dunno

i guess to me it just seems like it'd be such a glaring oversight

like this final 5 would have had to have been her plan if she's a scums and i had just posted about it being unlikely to be you/chicagotypewriter at the end of the day shortly before we slept

so all of that information would have been at her fingertips to present the same plan but have it be malleable

[medeia]

its p hard to guess exactly why a player doesnt take a specific route at a place in time

yeah and there's always like, why this plan instead of this better plan and it's often just that the better plan wasn't thought of for whatever reason or! the better plan isn't actually better and i'm missing something et cetera et cetera

[medeia]

like if she's mafia with CT

she might think that I want CT flipped
you want CT flipped(? I am not sure here )
and T3 wants CT flipped

then if CT gets flipped at F5 and flips scum

CT doesnt look aligned with T3
I don't look aligned with CT

then its her vs you and both me and T3 want her over you.

so she can't really ever accept that I dont look aligned with CT

i think she'd just realign her reads on one of you and hope to convince me or even to leave both of you and hope to convince you(?) probably

rather than try to 1v1 me

like if she is a scums here she mostly skipped the let's confirm townread on medeia anyway for a reason right

[medeia]

I am not sure she would have that plan and it feels like she is following a pretty straight path towards trying to yeet me

but then the recent 'i think i want to vote ct' is just a feint..? i guess

[medeia]

like sure she isn't hardcommitted to that but eh

[medeia]

I guess she has to hold the whole "im going to kill pooky" sword over me for a couple of days to make me sweat then change her mind and swerve and hope it buys her enough goodwill to make me vote for T3 at f3?

yeah idk i think that's probably more viable for scum!her than trying to 1v1 me post-chicagotypewriter flip while claiming we both fakeclaimed and so forth

[medeia]

anyway bedtime for me,

[medeia]

good night

[medeia]

pretty okay with sending chicagotypewriter here still really don't see pooky/t3 or skitter/t3

[medeia]

like if she's mafia with CT

she might think that I want CT flipped
you want CT flipped(? I am not sure here )
and T3 wants CT flipped

then if CT gets flipped at F5 and flips scum

CT doesnt look aligned with T3
I don't look aligned with CT

then its her vs you and both me and T3 want her over you.

so she can't really ever accept that I dont look aligned with CT

i think she'd just realign her reads on one of you and hope to convince me or even to leave both of you and hope to convince you(?) probably

rather than try to 1v1 me

like if she is a scums here she mostly skipped the let's confirm townread on medeia anyway for a reason right

Uh i still need to do that step

if you want to outsource any of the work for this to me you can

like if there's anything you'd like me to compile for you or anything you'd like me to talk about whatever

[medeia]

like i'm town here and feel like i've been town throughout and if this is something that must be done we can do so

idk maybe that's a silly offer but yeah

[medeia]

I feel p good abt town- you but also elo and need to do my homework

Will read ur iso tonight

sorry i wasn't trying to rush you just if you felt this were a task beyond merely rereading maybe i could help

it's not like i was really doing anything else right now other than reading anyway

last night pooky still feels pretty good to me like it's not just effort but energy and it was multidirectional and felt like he was thinking of things in the moment

still feel like was starting from conclusion tho

[medeia]

No i think it's just a matter of reading ur iso at certain key points

If u want to share like your top 3 townie posts by all means tho

uhh, well i think i have the most trouble with certain types of interaction as a scums and i think the early game back and forth with random nurse when he was pushing me for not voting or end of day one discussion with meuh or day two discussion with random nurse re: 'mod-confirmed' would all be things i think would have been very unlikely to occur were i a scums or to at least occur very differently

but in terms of single objectively towny posts i guess

maybe meuh vote at end of the day 1? assuming theoretical scum!me wasn't partnered with chicagotypewriter i think scum!me in the same situation would have found a way to eliminate claimed pr chicagotypewriter?

heading to bed

i will be able to check the game on and off throughout the day leading up to deadline but this is where i'm at

VOTE: meuh

and probably my claim for various reasons

I think if anyone else had a mechanism of stopping the nightkill they should just hardclaim?

if no one does then chicago is 100% confirmed town which is nice

and if something gets outed then oh well the day before MELO is an ok day for massclaim anyways

i, kinda want to massclaim here anyway for related and un-related reasons i guess

like in theory chicagotypewriter could have not nightkilled to try to confirm self and such so not 100%

but also,

i am an odd-night checker and my action on random nurse last night was not successful which is the only maybe relevant result i am capable of (i think) and there's probably a reason my role is in the setup, so

or at the very least for random nurse to claim or if someone else has an explanation for the above and also if there's another reason for the missing nightkill? i guess

and i do not think my thoughts re: random nurse being unaware would have been likely to occur to scum!me maybe not just solely this post but that general line of thought and even if they somehow did seems counterproductive for scum!me to voice

You say that, but it's too convenient knowing that I jailed Medeia Night 1.

If I were Scum I'd have no reason to counter-claim in response to your Bulletproof claim. It'd be so much easier to just pretend to be a VT.

i still cannot tell if this is an act or not - from my perspective it felt like random nurse might have been conveniently claiming jailkeeping me in order to explain away my result

and claiming vanilla town would obviously not accomplish this

but is 'completely unaware' a tactic that a scums who fakeclaimed themself would be likely to employ tho

like if you crafted a fakeclaim in order to make everything make sense would you then keep saying 'oh scum!me would have claimed vt' (even though it doesn't make any sense) and 'so what is a checker anyway' and 'what guilty what's pooky talking about'? ya know

idk it doesn't seem impossible to me but would that really be the first arrow out of the quiver? and has been consistent, so

would like others opinions on this i guess

idk looking through own iso like this a weird experience

hard to be an objective reader i guess like to me i think entire read of meuh leading up to interaction and such very emblematic of town!me but maybe(?) i would have seen it somehow as a scums

and then it just becomes 'well everything really whole approach would be different etc'

also hard to point to anything super super concrete when there isn't a flipped scum

[medeia]

I

thoughts on the way pooky is pushing skitter here?

I don’t really like it and I think skitter’s defense makes sense, but that’s not enough for me to change my opinion on skitter.

i can't even tell if this is now referring to here as in at that time or here as in throughout the entirety of the day now

[medeia]

can someone summarize claims stuff for me

here is chicagotypewriter claim:

Claim: Town PR, unspecified X-power type.

quoted because formatting potentially relevant due to its uncommonness

like chicagotypewriter has only played in newbie games previously thus likely not to have encountered x-shot roles at least not in game so yeah

like i don't think(?) anyone else in this game would be likely to refer to x-shot as x-power so i think that probably comes from paraphrasing

So when reading posts like these the thought crossed my mind that maybe it's ct/medeia?
Would explain why medeia isnt dead
Where the weird claims came from

And maybe i'm super pocketed?

----
Probably not super likely but this is a thought

if it was me/chicagotypewriter why wouldn't i be encouraging you and pooky to crossvote here in some way?

and why would we both claim to explain the same thing?

[medeia]

I think if anyone else had a mechanism of stopping the nightkill they should just hardclaim?

if no one does then chicago is 100% confirmed town which is nice

and if something gets outed then oh well the day before MELO is an ok day for massclaim anyways

i, kinda want to massclaim here anyway for related and un-related reasons i guess

like in theory chicagotypewriter could have not nightkilled to try to confirm self and such so not 100%

but also,

i am an odd-night checker and my action on random nurse last night was not successful which is the only maybe relevant result i am capable of (i think) and there's probably a reason my role is in the setup, so

or at the very least for random nurse to claim or if someone else has an explanation for the above and also if there's another reason for the missing nightkill? i guess

And like you tried to do the nk but failed so knew you could claim something where ur action failed

And that it would out the pr who did it ...

Hmmmmmmm

And i'm not dead b/c i'm horribly pocketed
And pooky's not dead b/c he's in a thing with me

Like i super townread medeia on play
But .... this kinda makes some ant of sense holistically

but how would i have known there was only one pr?

like even if you want to say i would have accepted all of the other risks involved for whatever reason, if we both claim and i encourage massclaim to out the prs and so forth, and then two other slots claim, then what? we just have to hard townread eachother and eliminate both real prs? it just locks us into a tiny little box for ??? gain

unless you're going to say i was informed of the exact setup or something, i don't really get it

[medeia]

Logically i think i should be voting pooky
Gut says chicago

if i work backwards from scum!pooky in much the same way pooky was doing for you i can make things mostly make sense on a logical level, though moreso day two onwards day one still kinda hm, but today certainly timing of scumreading you still feels like possible evildoing lines up very well with potentially trying to win the game off t3's reads while also trying to make something i was questioning make sense and such, (though scum!pooky wouldn't have any great need to lean so heavily on the 'i don't want to misvote in elo' thing right? could just not and then do so himself if encouraging you failed), but working forwards much harder

and! even if assuming scum!pooky i think chicagotypewriter would be pooky's most likely partner, so

[medeia]

But then ig we're missing town power
Idk lol

1 JK 6 VT 2 goons is like a standard setup

its actually the exact setup I lost to scum!shiki last time

viewtopic.php?p=13176597#p13176597

okay but i've played other jailkeeper setups (as have you i assume) like i don't think i would just assume it was this specific one even if i assumed jailkeeper

[medeia]

and the because would have to be like "mafia thought that it would be too much power for medeia-ct-jk guy to all fit into the game and hence they decided to not kill medeia and even let her get a check off"

which is ?

well if they have a roleblocker they opted not to use it which i think makes sense because it'd be as likely to guilty themselves unless both scums are ascetic or skitter is a scums

if skitter is an ascetic scums could have been banking on me simply not checking her due to misreading her, if you're a scums you're not ascetic anyway so could have simply been unafraid of the check, or even hoping it'd be interpreted as clearing

maybe it makes the least sense for chicagotypewriter/t3 if one of them ascetic because they would have had to assume i would possibly check them? but could have been planning on 1v1 if redchecked in theory (though based on their behaviour today this would be pretty ??? as what would have been plan to win but! like if they're scums what is plan for winning anyway outside of just hoping we get it wrong which one of the things i'm struggling with in general but sometimes scums simply don't have one) and also they could have just thought it was best path to victory even if not a great path to victory

like honestly it mostly feels like the pieces still don't fit quite right like i don't know why the scums have made the nightkills they've made they don't make so much sense to me and the setup doesn't so much either but it is what it is

[medeia]

Well ct should be getting replaced

Medeia it was a paranoid thought that occures to me that i probably think isn't particularly likely

idk if there is great benefit in waiting for this

i guess to me it is very likely a mafia replacement so mostly net negative unless you think replacement is going to give partner away or something which eh more likely to wifom

i was mostly waiting for you to finish review and such

i know you said that it just, idk like i know it to be not possible

like i don't think you're any less town for having it or anything like really i don't think scum!you would have come away from this hard scumreading me or anything anyway

i'm just like, ! well that doesn't make sense ya know

but i have information you don't i get it

[medeia]

i just really don't want the two of you to end up crossvoting at this point i guess so it's mostly downside from my point of view yeah

like even if we're going to wait i might vote, shrug, will think about this when i get off work

like worst case scenario to me would be more like someone replaces in is 'towny' or whatever and convinces town!skitter to vote town!pooky or something and we lose

when it's like, even if chicagtypewriter were towny on play to me it still seems like correct solution

[medeia]

you think CT/T3 is the solve?

i think it's the most likely solve yeah

like still feels like it could be one-sided distancing to me and t3's vote of chicagotypewriter doesn't even really make sense like it comes after chicagotypewriter's claim has shifted the wagon to meuh without addressing that in anyway

and even if not chicagotypewriter most likely partner for both you and skitter as well

[medeia]

i just really don't want the two of you to end up crossvoting at this point i guess so it's mostly downside from my point of view yeah

like even if we're going to wait i might vote, shrug, will think about this when i get off work

like worst case scenario to me would be more like someone replaces in is 'towny' or whatever and convinces town!skitter to vote town!pooky or something and we lose

when it's like, even if chicagtypewriter were towny on play to me it still seems like correct solution

I don't know what ur trying to say here, what's the downside and what do you want to do

it's like, if you're a scums with chicagotypewriter (which is only scum!you world that makes any amount of sense to me), you're pretty unlikely to actually vote pooky as things are, right? because of stated reads of t3 and such

so you're only likely to carry through with voting pooky here if you're town, and if you're town and vote town!pooky (which seems somewhat likely to me as well), then we lose

so if i vote chicagotypewriter, it eliminates these possibilities right

and a replacement just seems like it's more likely to unsolve the game than to solve it to me right now

so i kinda want to vote

[medeia]

it's like, if you're a scums with chicagotypewriter (which is only scum!you world that makes any amount of sense to me), you're pretty unlikely to actually vote pooky as things are, right? because of stated reads of t3 and such

like replacement could change the status quo with regards to this... but that's only negative to me unless it's apparent that you're partnered

so you're only likely to carry through with voting pooky here if you're town, and if you're town and vote town!pooky (which seems somewhat likely to me as well), then we lose

and replacement being 'towny' or whatever upon replacing in could make this more likely to occur, but once again only negative

and it just seems like, no matter how i look at worlds, that chicagotypewriter is still very likely to be a scums

[medeia]

basically if you or pooky is a scums and i vote i feel like you currently have to bus chicagotypewriter or just tie yourself to sinking ship

but replacement potentially gives cover for changing that and i don't think it's super likely that replacement reveals their partner definitively

and if you're both town then best course of action is also to vote to prevent potential misvotes

and even if replacement comes in super towny because they were following along or whatever i don't really see how that would make them possibly town

the worlds still wouldn't make any sense

like pooky/t3 would have just killed me last night and tried to eliminate chicagotypewriter today i just don't see any way around that i guess

can build associatives or whatever like we both already did but i believe in that more than i believe in those by alot

[medeia]

like pooky/t3 would have just killed me last night and tried to eliminate chicagotypewriter today i just don't see any way around that i guess

like it's different from all of us saying we wouldn't nightkill eachother for ~reasons - it'd be actively choosing a suboptimal path when a clear one was presented

like pooky/t3 kill me

only real defense for chicagotypewriter is 'i wouldn't have killed medeia, it outs me'

pooky then says, nonono, you had to because of the check, it outs you but if you partner gets redchecked then it's gg whereas this way only you are caught

tada game over

like am i missing something here?

[medeia]

roleclaim is town 1-shot bp btw have not checked to see if my slot claimed at all

1-shot?

pure gamestate read: does a town with skitter/pooky/shiki get taken to final 5 by a chicagotypewriter/T3 scum team? is that a thing that ever happens? at least one of you is town and a very smart player, but use your head, because that's not a thing that ever happens. they get caught much sooner or the influential people get killed. like brassherald dies over with at least 6x the posts he has??? that's not a kill a lurksack team makes, idc that skitter was tunneling pooky or w/e

also are you familiar with me? (i assume from referring to me as shiki?) anyway this is thing we've discussed at some length over multiple days it's like,

i have no idea how they would have been trying to win the game if so other than to bet on us being wrong voting amongst ourselves, but the other options don't make any sense to me either and that one does a little bit maybe because claims and such

like pooky and skitter didn't play today (and yesterday) the way they did as partners it would just be unreasonable

and pooky/t3 and skitter/t3 would have nightkilled me, like if you're town it's one of those but it's just soso hard to see

but i'm willing to look and if so show me i guess

pedit: hm, lying in the other direction would make sense to me, lying in that direction just... would keep him alive i guess? but why would that be his intention if not going to play the game

hmhmhm

[medeia]

random nurse was jailkeeper, is dead

i am odd-night checker, failed checking random nurse (who claimed jailkeeping me) night one, succeeded checking pooky night three

everyone else claimed vanilla town

[medeia]

also are you familiar with me? (i assume from referring to me as shiki?)

yeah this is a petapan alt sorry forgot not everyone in the game knows that

oh hi +)

[medeia]

pedit: hm, lying in the other direction would make sense to me, lying in that direction just... would keep him alive i guess? but why would that be his intention if not going to play the game

i think he was being incredibly egotistical and believed he was the reason scum had failed the nightkill, and so his bluff was that in order to keep him alive. you can say he's not playing but he's a noob, the traces of selfish ego play are really easy to spot, even in the post where he made his claim

i also think scum just doesn't claim BP in response to a failed kill, ever


and anyway i think everyone here can be rightfully paranoid of my play as scum but you are out of your skull if you think my first play on replacing in is to check the PT, see what my predecessor claimed, and then modify it from 2-shot to 1-shot just to be fancy and claim he lied as town. zero purpose to overcomplicating something like that.

which in theory he could have been but then this setup is so ???

mmm, it's like, my literal first thought upon chicagotypewriter claiming was 'oh he should have claimed 1-shot if he's town so he could get shot again' so you claiming 1-shot here is like,

like sure maybe it's overcomplicating something and there's zero purpose

but also, mmm

[medeia]

random nurse was jailkeeper, is dead

i am odd-night checker, failed checking random nurse (who claimed jailkeeping me) night one, succeeded checking pooky night three

everyone else claimed vanilla town

did you claim you were blocked before random nurse claimed?

yes

[medeia]

i am an odd-night checker and my action on random nurse last night was not successful

Hey, so, I jailed Medeia Night 1.

I'm Town Jailkeeper.

[medeia]

which certainly part or maybe even most of why we, or at least i, miseliminated random nurse

[medeia]

medeia seems to be convinced it's CT/T3 and i'll have to apologize to her post game if that's the correct solve and I couldn't get there

i wouldn't say i am convinced as much as it makes the most sense to me

idk i could be wrong of course like i don't really think you should believe in my reads over your own if you're town anyway like i've been wrong in both elos i've previously been a part of as town (ydrasse mini normal and five-player hydra game) it just makes the most sense to me yeah

also! happy scumday pooky!! twenty years!!!

[medeia]

this but +15 since this video was posted fifteen years ago +)

[medeia]

and makes me think you didn't know that

that is correct, though of course i could just as easily not know that as scum so clearing me because of that wouldn't be good logic

i plan to do due diligence and read through pooky as well though

it isn't clearing it just means i don't think that you came in purposefully trying to use t3 to misflip me

yeah would agree with this

tho bloodhail was aware of pooky/you dynamic to some extent coming in as evidenced here:

idc that skitter was tunneling pooky or w/e

and it kinda feels like he is doing what i was afraid replacement would do with regards to trying to encourage crossvote between you/pooky

like from bloodhail's perspective, it's like,

if bloodhail is town, and he thinks i'm town (i am!), then t3 must be a scums, right?

it just seems so impossible he or anyone really would think you and pooky are partnered here i guess

so the focus on like, ohh look skitter is scummy, see, look more scummy things skitter has done,

while saying, ope can't read t3 and such, who knows he's always scummy regardless and such,

even while proposing you/t3 world feels pretty !!!

but then again pooky now encouraging it again as well and yeah +/

[medeia]

so, can i ask you - how long have you expressed your view that this was the team? was this your stated solve on Day 3 or was it one that evolved today?

it seemed possible team to me throughout yesterday as well and i am pretty sure i expressed as much at various points though it certainly became more likely to me today especially with pooky posting at one point which you also commented on recently,

[medeia]

so, can i ask you - how long have you expressed your view that this was the team? was this your stated solve on Day 3 or was it one that evolved today?

it seemed possible team to me throughout yesterday as well and i am pretty sure i expressed as much at various points though it certainly became more likely to me today especially with pooky posting at one point which you also commented on recently,

here:

lack of follow through on actually voting me 1488 1509
eod-1 progression 1651

regardless of your alignment p great posting, logic here tracks very cleanly and there's a lot of detail

like i said at the time that was the first time this game where it felt like pooky was like, Here I Am To Save The Day, ya know

and i know pooky knows that's what i was looking like i know this i do i even said as much earlier in the game to random nurse at some point

it's just like, even then is he really that good at just doing so

mm, like yeah maybe i worry a bit about this because he then was like, 'oh if medeia made tea to stay up with me i'll just lose to her' or whatever ya know

like maybe(???) it felt like he was trying to make me recall that but i feel like that is one of those things i should ignore yeah

[medeia]

it's just like, even then is he really that good at just doing so

like mayyybe? it just felt so good to me in the moment and even reading back i guess

[medeia]

@medeia idk i still think ct's side is pretty clearing?

mediea
can i get the cliffnotes version for why i should be unpartering ct/t3?

it just doesn't seem impossible or even super improbable to me or anything and someone has to be partnered here and the nightkill stuff feels more clearing to me i guess,

like bloodhail says 't3 is easiest misflip in the world if town' but like, chicagotypewriter actually would have been for you/t3 or pooky/t3, just kill me eliminate chicagotypewriter

anyways:

Okay, I'm doing a little better on catch-up. The most important thing here is I needed to make sure I actually want to keep my RVS vote on T3.

Overall:
-T3 seriously voted for Kcdaspot 31, unvoted

six minutes later

34, and then seemed to indicate that the initial vote wasn't icky 226. I'm not a fan of this voting behavior.
-T3 supports Random Nurse over Medeia (and who in turn supports T3 back). I'm not sure I like this. Calling them a scumteam seems a bit too obvious as this point given how much they're supporting each other, but ... well, it's kind of weird from my perspective, given I have a scumlean on Random Nurse right now; given his main gripe against Medeia is the refusal to add a vote for pressure.
-T3 is currently at E-2 with my vote, I believe. I'm find with this.

Decision: Vote stays. I'm going to work on the rest of the catchup, be back in a bit. (By which I mean later today, if I can get to it.)

This just looks so beyond unaligned

idk with this i still worry that like, he made this whole case and everything for keeping the rvs vote and then when he finished the readslist the next time he was posting he moved his vote to random nurse saying it wasn't doing anything and such citing t3 not reacting to it and it's kinda hm to me and there was expected pressure on random nurse from his perspective from pooky/me

but yeah it is a case for partner at e-2 nonetheless

i guess this is still the post that looks the most unaligned with t3 to me but it was like, the only thing he was focused on up until that point and then when he does finish the catchup and presents his readslist he moves the vote because it wasn't doing anything but then says he scumreads t3 for not reacting to it and it's just like hmm

while also trying to pressure meuh who was also under pressure and then random nurse

and then later chicagotypewriter only goes back to t3 because skitter specifically asked him to:

Chicago can u vote t3 ?

Aye, ma'am, cat's paw away.
VOTE: T3
...
...
I reserve the right to blame you if anything goes wrong.

and i guess to me it's like, what other choice would chicagotypewriter have had there based on stated reads and it kinda feels like maybe he was trying to make you think it was a bad wagon even though he was supporting it

and then later in the day post claim and such chicagotypewriter refuses to join meuh wagon despite not townreading her emphasizing that he wants to stay on t3 (by himself) and it just feels more for show and such like the wagon had already shifted because of claim so chicagotypewriter probably wouldn't feel like he had to vote meuh for survival reasons

[medeia]

to be clear i have done basically no encouragement of that, if you actually look at my words

yes i have expressed a scumread of skitter because in my initial reading i didn't like her posts/found them scummy. i explained why that is.

however i absolutely did not try to get her to vote pooky or for pooky to vote her - if anything pooky was egging her on which was kind of weird to me

it isn't the words as much as the stances that would encourage that, like i do not expect scum!you would say 'oh skitter should vote pooky' or anything,

pooky has been doing so throughout even when he said he was townreading her which was ...

which i guess maybe i assumed you knew, hm

[medeia]

i think what you're doing here is forcefitting a read very hard - you want the team to be me/T3 more than it actually makes sense, and so you're taking posts that would have the most rational conclusion be that my slot and T3 are unaligned and assuming the opposite

the thing is, this is overly elaborate and scum generally do not play around each other like this

however, psychologically this is very hard because in your mind you have miscleared someone and it's very hard to take back that clear so you keep looking and staring hard at the posts from my slot and convincing yourself because they have to be scum with T3 rather than re-evaluating where you need to

it's funny beacause earlier i even said i felt like maybe i just

wanted

the team to be you/t3

and from your perspective the other worlds that made some sense to me previously would also be impossible,

like if you're town the problem isn't so much that i have miscleared someone as much as it is that i have miscondemned you, as i am trying to convince myself that those make sense because other things do not make sense, and those things are more concrete to me, if that makes sense

mostly this makes so much sense to me,

chicagotypewriter actually would have been for you/t3 or pooky/t3, just kill me eliminate chicagotypewriter

and the associative things i feel like, if i try i can see it yeah, shrug

[medeia]

i mean no, not really, i wasn't aware of that, mainly had seen skitter had been pushing pooky some time ago

i think in general the way i've thrown myself into the game with wild abandon is actually a strong towntell for me although i would not expect others to recognize it that way. as scum in elo, your goal is to get one town to vote incorrectly. most of the time winning scumteams have an idea of who this will be, the players and their social relations have been fully laid out and they know who they can convince and work them to do so. this necessitates playing around them tactically. were i scum replacing into this position i would need to actually survey the game and get a view of the landscape before making actions, becaue i wouldn't want to disrupt a potential winning vote by pressuring the wrong way

(if i felt like trying at all - if my partner is well situated i have no problem falling on my sword and leaving them to carry. this would obviously not be the case if i were scum with t3 though)

whereas as town i don't really care about that stuff so i can be a lot more free and unrestrained - i only care about getting the solve and convincing others of it


anyway, if you were to give me an ultimatum of, like, vote t3 now or else, i would do that, although i would not be happy about it

it's so hard to try to weigh that because you were following along and such, and also you probably have some ability to do so in realtime,

hm, i wouldn't really expect someone with your reputation (or from my experience with you / games i have read) to like, fall on your sword or whatever here regardless,

and to me it felt like maybe you were searching for that winning vote, but also like you said maybe i am just reading scum intention into everything, like i do not think that is impossible but i also do not know how not to

we have some time, like i guess i'd prefer only giving 24 hours or so until we are at decision point to honour skitter's v/la as that will encompass the rest of the deadline,

[medeia]

you can certainly link them - haven’t yet been able to look at those but i’ll be able to sit down with everything again in a few hours

i don’t really think its likely to help with the main things i’m struggling with but it interests me nonetheless

[medeia]

standing emoji

why'd you choose to show your work this game

at least re:skitter

obviously less so regarding everyone else

[medeia]

also how does anyone ever get past

'oh but he's aware this is how he might replace in as town here...'

[medeia]

though this one is only particularly similar to star trek one

much less so to the others

and even the star trek one was more like, multidirectional

[medeia]

demona

this is actually quite clever if you're a scums (and it's intentional)

like see i was reading angels + demons whyever would scum!me have been doing that

could have also simply been reading angels + demons of course

[medeia]

hm, well - skitter was the first person i elected to read and i decided to immediately just throw my impressions into the thread as i got them. it's ELO so if someone is scum i do need to case them.

was curious as it was decidedly different approach to the isos from the other bloodhail games you linked and! it felt potentially angled but at that time i had not yet read star trek game

[medeia]

"yeah i am the one who should be casting a potentially game deciding vote here and not anyone else"

hm

who do you think should be casting a vote?

[medeia]

however every time i've gotten misexe'd at ELO it was because the voting player was confirmation biased and ignored everything that was said or the fact that scum had carried them all game to that point for the purpose of being the losing the vote

i like to think if i was actually a better player i could have seen a way to persuade those people but in most cases i really have no idea. i think most people hate my rhetoric, even when they pretend not to.

i mean, i certainly do not hate your rhetoric, but how am i supposed to respond to this

it's like, yeah if you're town you're probably being truthful though somewhat manipulative and if you're a scums you're directly saying 'you're confirmation biased and ignoring me and the

real

scums brought you here just to be wrong!!!

ya know

[medeia]

like yeah if you're town they probably did like i'd bet against me too but what am i supposed to do, just bet against myself?

[medeia]

if i had my way, skitter or pooky - they've been involved in the game, are potentially scum but if not i would have the hope that they would vote scum

it's also kind of a thing where they keep dancing around crossvoting but won't commit and i'm starting to wonder if the "will they or won't they" is just going to go on forever

(selfishly also this would potentially disprove your world of me/t3)

i'd accept t3 voting if he ever actually posted again although i dunno if other people trust a potential town t3 with that decision lol (i'm not saying he is town just that if others are concerned he might be, he would not be an ideal voter)

yeah i thought about it from your perspective and crossvote always safe for you, would then just have to decide between, like solve entire game today instead of guaranteed correct elimination which makes some sense if you're town

want to say that it would be fitting end to the game if t3 is town and randomly showed up and voted town right now but i also don't want to encourage him

[medeia]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[medeia]

I think i'm just gonna vote t3

do you just think pooky/t3 is more likely than pooky/bloodhail then?

[medeia]

I don't like voting in elo
Don't want to get it wrong

Tbh i also don't know what i'm waiting for or what conclusion i'm expecting to be different so i probably just should

I just don'r want to have the game-ending vote if i'm wrong >.>

man i thought myself in a circle and im back where i started maybe i should just leave the thinking to shiki

are you two actually fucking mafia together? you've spent days calling each other lock scum and laying out extensive reasons for the other being scum and yet when the possibility comes to cross vote you keep chickening out. Did you actually believe anything you said about the other or was it all performative to look unaligned? Are you too scared to bus each other?

it just seems so improbable to me and also

i absolutely did not try to get her to vote pooky or for pooky to vote her

yeah

just mmmmmm

[medeia]

especially when skitter leaning towards t3 and i don't even know if her perspective makes sense to me but yeah

[medeia]

i don't even know if her perspective makes sense to me

like if i accept bloodhail/t3 as unaligned i still just get stuck on the nightkill again

[medeia]

like pooky/t3 would have just killed me last night and tried to eliminate chicagotypewriter today i just don't see any way around that i guess

like it's different from all of us saying we wouldn't nightkill eachother for ~reasons - it'd be actively choosing a suboptimal path when a clear one was presented

like pooky/t3 kill me

only real defense for chicagotypewriter is 'i wouldn't have killed medeia, it outs me'

pooky then says, nonono, you had to because of the check, it outs you but if you partner gets redchecked then it's gg whereas this way only you are caught

tada game over

like am i missing something here?

[medeia]

god do t3's comments last night not make any sense tho

and probably noteworthy that he was actually posting

[medeia]

Ok wtf there is no way that bloodhail and skitter are partnered. Unless bloodhail is pulling off an insane scum madterclsss I just don’t see it

like isn't this exactly what they'd do if partnered? come in make show of distancing find way to voting you because pooky less beneficial for skitter to vote if you're town?

[medeia]

okay maybe not exactly as that doesn't seem super super likely to me but from t3's perspective i feel like i would have to?

[medeia]

*it would have to

[medeia]

I

thoughts on the way pooky is pushing skitter here?

I don’t really like it and I think skitter’s defense makes sense, but that’s not enough for me to change my opinion on skitter.

?????????????

Pooky’s pushback to skitter seemed like he was more trying to justify it to everyone else rather than engage with skitter ig. Skitter’s defense seemed natural and from a genuine place of a tunneled townie.

Soooooooo ur conclusionn on me is ...

Scum, probably

and how does this conclusion possibly follow

[medeia]

- the night kills are so bizarre and i don't know who makes these, or why. It's a point against everyone so at this point i'm just discounting it and ignoring it. Those kills don't make sense from anyone's perspective

i guess to me last night's is different because instead of like potential wifom i can maybe see it type things but that one like scum!pooky would have had clear path that'd be hard to miss if partnered with t3

[medeia]

an

- t3 is just so scummy tho >.>
- his comments last night are just all over the place i think his conclusion is that i was scum which is .... ? based on prior comments

yeah and i guess that i am your partner? but it's just so ???

- i don't know why he's ofd the table (i'm kinda wondering if pooky is trying to incite a 1v1 with me to distract from t3 -> he can maybe win the 1v1 with me but if our attention goes back to t3 why don't we just flip him)

i still feel like bloodhail trying to incite that too but anti-associative stuff

[medeia]

i don't think it's improbable at all, based on my late night paranoia a few hours ago.

idk they spent like 7 days of a 10 day day phase where we were going to sleep doing ~this

[medeia]

like to what end? entertaining themselves?

[medeia]

and as for the second bit - well, i hadn't done that at that moment in time. obviously you could say that i'm doing that now and i wouldn't dispute that. however, i want to emphasize - if i am mafia, the game is won for me if i get one to vote each other, but it can happen either today or tomorrow. i do not need to protect T3, i bus the shit out of him because him existing is an immense liability to any scumteam. in my first game on this account i threw him under the bus on day 1 because his play jeopardized the entire team, and i leveraged that to protect the rest of my teammates

this is kind of - when i first joined the game i was taking it easy because although i think skitter is mafia and you disagree with me, it seemed possible there would be support for votes on her anyway. and if not, getting votes on T3 wouldn't be hard. but last night I was struck with the vision of a true hellworld game, and that terrifies me. i have a lot more to say to you, but it's going to take me a while to write it.

i shouldn't have quoted that bit specifically as i wasn't trying to imply you 'lied' because future actions didn't match past comments or whatever sorry

it's just like, bussing t3 and then playing another whole day where you're not even guaranteed or anything vs simply going for the win here with hours on the clock while you could also fallback to that later like if it doesn't work you can still just eliminate t3 play tomorrow, yeah?

and i know you're up for the challenge but also you believe enough to just go for things like that

[medeia]

like if the scum team really is medea/skitter theres no good nightkill for the two of you to make at 6

like what r u going to do? shoot T3 or me? lol

if i really squint tho

[medeia]

the question i have to ask you is - why are you alive? since random nurse was eliminated, scum have had free reign over the nightkills. If you are alive in ELO, there are two possibilities - scum are either hoping to make you misvote, or they are hoping to get you voted out so they can win. The latter is clearly not the case - i don't think anyone to this point had seriously entertained the possibility of voting you. T3 just did but i think that came out of literally nowhere.

so, you are here because scum are counting on you to vote wrong. that should tell you, at a minimum, that one of your reads is wrong. if pooky/skitter are TvT and scum were hoping to leave them alive so they would tunnel each other (and from your POV i think this is a reasonable concern to have), why does a chicago/T3 team leave you alive, and not brassherald? brass was very open about scumreading pooky, this game is a free win for that team if they simply NK you and let him vote pooky. i don't think that scumteam ever leaves you alive here. and i desperately need you to consider that.

i think latter would almost never be the case, like if t3/chicagotypewriter they had no actual plan for winning the game and were just hoping town would lose it, and if skitter or pooky is a scums they'd just be betting against me solving it and trying to get me voted out and in doing so just giving me the solve would be ????????? like i may be generally useless but i cannot imagine either of them thinking pushing me would be best course of action or, like, pleasant i guess

okay so reasons i can think of that i am alive

could be that i am pocketed by skitter like you say

could also be that someone wanted me to think this and play towards my natural inclination for paranoia (very unlikely from t3 or chicagotypewriter but possible for pooky)

could be that the mechanical implications of killing me / confirming i am town and such would have implicated chicagotypewriter (you)

which like, impossible from your perspective but yeah

could also be to give impression of such, but that just seems like questionable course of action

like skitter was the only one generally considering 3 town pr world so would probably have killed her if playing towards this goal while leaving me alive?

but again, nightkill analysis +/

which like, you say chicagotypewriter never leaves me alive but the mechanical implications thing seems very possible to me

[medeia]

- the night kills are so bizarre and i don't know who makes these, or why. It's a point against everyone so at this point i'm just discounting it and ignoring it. Those kills don't make sense from anyone's perspective

i guess to me last night's is different because instead of like potential wifom i can maybe see it type things but that one like scum!pooky would have had clear path that'd be hard to miss if partnered with t3

Can you translate this please?

it is mostly this:

I don't know who medeia was going to vote coming into today

Honestly if i'm scum with pooky to kill medeia and have brass vote ct with me

but extended to you/t3 and pooky/t3 as well

like you were the only one heavily weighing three pr world right

so if you're a scums with either t3 or pooky

you know that noone has an objection to just kill me eliminate chicagotypewriter

and that's the same for pooky/t3 like they don't have to win you over they have brassherald right

[medeia]

so it's like, would have just been choosing this elo instead of that one and it's just so hard to see

[medeia]

medeia - i have to ask - you have suggested that the interactions between chicago and T3 could have been a distancing routine. you also mentioned previous experience with chicago in a newbie game where he was mafia. i just went to check, and how he treated his partner there was

completely unlike

how he treated T3 this game. I have to ask - why do you think that would possibly be partnered? while it's possible he'd try to change things, since he got caught out on his play around his partner that game (i'm assuming - haven't confirmed), it's generally incredibly rare for players to do something like a complete 180 in their tactics as scum. most players don't evolve that fast, people's minds don't work that way. for the most part people's tendencies are very slow to change.

chicagotypewriter's approach to the readslist seemed very different from his town games like the focus on reevaluating rvs read and other thoughts being withheld and such seemed unnatural for him

and i was looking specifically for if they were potentially partnered and not fully considering how chicagotypewriter had previously approached partners, though i do not know if the conclusion would have been all that different as it being possible felt more likely than scum!pooky taking path of most resistance i guess

[medeia]

theres no reason why t3 couldnt have just told ct hey we should bus each other and ct listened to him.

yeah

also seems possible that t3 could have helped with claim as he's modded and such but that's true of you/skitter as well

[medeia]

- the night kills are so bizarre and i don't know who makes these, or why. It's a point against everyone so at this point i'm just discounting it and ignoring it. Those kills don't make sense from anyone's perspective

i guess to me last night's is different because instead of like potential wifom i can maybe see it type things but that one like scum!pooky would have had clear path that'd be hard to miss if partnered with t3

Can you translate this please?

it is mostly this:

I don't know who medeia was going to vote coming into today

Honestly if i'm scum with pooky to kill medeia and have brass vote ct with me

but extended to you/t3 and pooky/t3 as well

like you were the only one heavily weighing three pr world right

so if you're a scums with either t3 or pooky

you know that noone has an objection to just kill me eliminate chicagotypewriter

and that's the same for pooky/t3 like they don't have to win you over they have brassherald right

and all of the counterarguments i can think of would be easily dismissed by scum!you or scum!pooky

like 'why would i do that if it implicates me' > 'well you were afraid of check catching your partner and sac'ed to prevent total loss'

[medeia]

so it's like, would have just been choosing this elo instead of that one and it's just so hard to see

I mean someone apparently chose this elo
I have no idea who or why tho

My pooky/t3 reason is the best one i've come up with

well yes i know

what is reason again? i'm sorry

[medeia]

Someone obviousky told ct what to claim if he's scum

Also actually being 1s instead of 2s lends credence to town-peta, the world where he comes in changing the claim is bizarre as scum

Pedit gonna be honest i'm still not following what ur saying

Pedit to distract from obvious scum in t3 and make me viable instead

It's less abt the nk and more abt why pooky os starting a 1v1 with me now

which could have been any of you, and it's like, idk makes me think about scum!bloodhail doing it to say was now changing it to bait nightkill in case partner eliminate and tada! i am actually two-shot

but i can feel everyone yelling at me for considering low probability things inspired by things from 60 pages ago that bloodhail may have been unlikely to have even read and yeah

sorry will try again in a sec

oh yeah i knew that thought you were saying reason re:this now i understand

[medeia]

hat do you mean by 'path of most resistance' though?

if chicagotypewriter was town then skitter or pooky would have to be a scums with t3 or eachother, and skitter seemed likely town to me so scum!pooky would have had to have been trying for complicated endgame instead of kill me eliminate you

[medeia]

and i guess the only way for either of us to trust each other at this point in the game is agree to blindly sheep medeia whatever she decides to do

mm

[medeia]

okay reexplaining thing for skitter

so situation was medeia/pooky/skitter/t3/chicagotypewriter/brassherald

if {pooky, skitter} or {pooky, t3} or {skitter, t3}

then nightkill medeia, eliminate chicagotypewriter

seems like it is clear course of action because game, outside of skitter, does not believe in possible town!chicagotypewriter worlds in this situation

and all of the counterpoints i can think of for town!chicagotypewriter in this situation would be likely ineffective, and! it's not like chicagotypewriter would be expected to defend self well anyway

which if bloodhail is town is inherently wrong and he is correct that my overweighing this is what's messing everything up and there is other reasoning for (someone simply counting on me misvoting and such)

[medeia]

if you’re town i believe in you more than i believe in me you know

idk i guess maybe i’d rather bloodhail votes but he wants you or pooky to vote and pooky wants you to vote and yeah

[medeia]

which is to say

i am good with this if you are

and at the very least i am glad that bloodhail replaced in so if we do lose at least it wasn’t to ourselves

[medeia]

and if not then i guess i get to decide

[medeia]

i am less convinced i am right now than i was this morning which is less than I was last night and so forth

i guess it mostly feels like bloodhail trying to tell me

don’t you want to be a good player medeia a good player would find me to be town here don’t you think skitter and pooky should crossvote wouldn’t that be nice

but i can’t really argue with any of your logic or his logic regarding things like it’s not like i don’t understand it

[medeia]

like if he is town it evens makes sense for him to want you to vote and even to vote for pooky like it solves the game today one way or the other from his perspective

[medeia]

no objections; it isn’t any more on you than it is on us if you’re both town

need the time anyway in case not

pedit: acknowledging i have seen the vote

[medeia]

well if peta/t3 r mafia together this is a loss state right?

medeia might as well vote atp

???

if i vote you it opens up loss states to all skitter worlds

and if i vote skitter it opens loss states to scum!you worlds?

[medeia]

like why would i make it a lot more loss states right now when there’s already one i don’t understand

[medeia]

VOTE: pooky

[medeia]

[medeia]

congratulations to the scumteam of medeia for winning Micro 1087

nono, you made all strategic decisions that actually had desirable outcomes and belief in me to play today well even when i didn’t one of things that inspired me today

as well as rilo kiley and wanting to make everyone at least a little proud of me

[medeia]

also thankyou all for kind words regarding play

sorry for mess of right now, on mobile otherwise occupied but it is very nice of you to say

[medeia]

good game everyone, this game was alot of fun +)

Mediea played spectacularly
Good anti-distancing day1

Medeia that was really good

congrats on the win you played awesome medeia

thankyou again!

Uh what *was* the reasoning for killing brass/sheep?

uh, t3 wanted to, in both cases, was more or less the extent of the reasoning for me

night 1 i shot (or t3 did technically) someone i thought was somewhat likely to be a commuter so i just deferred from there

i submitted skitter for night 3 but t3 changed to brassherald, saying it would be easier(?)

which i knew it wouldn't i knew today would be like it was but also reminded myself to just play the day phases, focus on what actually competent at

which i wrote about at some length in both the scum pt and in my notes pt (which i suppose i might release so everyone can see my thinking re:nightkills)

[medeia]

if i had been a little better - a little smarter, a little more patient, a little more understanding - i could have gotten there.

this one of the songs that inspire me the most as the above is a feeling i relate to immensely:

i really like playing with you and i think your approach to me would have been immensely helpful had i been town

[medeia]

thankyou for moderating!

no redactions and could you please also release my notes pt when you're able to release the other pts and such

[medeia]

very well played medeia

thankyou

[medeia]

1) It should've been a clue when I jailed Medeia Night 1 and there was no NK Night 1. Next time try to keep these details in mind.

3) Medeia was very good this game. I should have pushed harder Days 1 and 2: I was right to be Scumhunting her.

being jailkept blocked my rolecop action, not the nightkill - chicagotypewriter's vest blocked the nightkill

thankyou as well, hope our paths cross again in the future

[medeia]

we thought random nurse was a pr thus why i was rolecopping him which was blocked by being jailed

got no result

and am always thinking about claims / how to turn the game into something other than what it is and such and took opportunity to do so

[medeia]

like let’s eliminate prs and still have clean claim was the angle

[medeia]

Pts?

hm, since invisibility hasn't posted sitewide in a week,

here are quoted versions of mafia pt and my notes pt

i would still be quite interested in reading the dead pt

mafia pt:

Spoiler:

pregame

Mafia PT

Welcome T3, a

Mafia Goon

, and medeia, a

Mafia Odd-Night Rolecop

! You may discuss whatever you wish with your partner in this thread at any time. You should also submit night actions through this thread.

Please assume that all contents of this thread will be made public without redaction when the game ends.

@moderator - do we have multitasking? i assume not since i do not see it listed in the rules (unless i missed it) but i just wanted to make sure

also, hi t3!

@moderator - do we have multitasking? i assume not since i do not see it listed in the rules (unless i missed it) but i just wanted to make sure

Nope

okay thanks!

day 1

i am not entirely sure how to best use the scum pt (well outside of coordinating night actions/discussing potential prs things like that) but if there're any angles you think i should take or anything you would like to discuss or would like help with or any ideas you have or things you would like to try and such, anything really, i am here

spent some time thinking about potential claims last night in case it becomes necessary

i think if you end up having to claim and want to claim a pr maybe the best bets here would be like

maybe a gated neapolitan or vanilla cop

and the gate could be one-shot or odd-night, one-shot maybe slightly better

though i do not know how you would usually go about claiming such things, could just claim gated also, however you would do so as town i think

it gives lots of options with claiming results tomorrow (can claim based results from my check, or if we pr read someone specific you can claim a vanilla result to check, lots of options) and investigative good to claim because most likely players to simply hammer would be investigative themselves, i would guess there are probably two full town prs in the game since we have like 2/3 of a pr but i am not really an expert on normal design

otherwise vanilla town is also safe of course, safer really

or simply whatever you think is best in terms of gained value or likelihood of survival

will spend more time today thinking about what our current knowledge likely indicates about the setup but that's my thinking at this time

or if we pr read someone specific you can claim a vanilla result to check

or maybe non-vanilla result would be better

hm, idk

need to think more about this as well

could just claim gated also, however you would do so as town i think

or even full neapolitan

i don't know

think that would probably be most likely in a neighbour game i guess?

dunnodunnodunno

okay so upon further reflection

the problem with any sort of one-shot or odd-night or full neapolitan sort of claim

is that you would probably have to claim no result tomorrow as if you were roleblocked because otherwise there isn't really a reason you would be alive

since neapolitan guilties both mafias

even with vanilla cop likely only guiltying one mafia it's still kinda ??? that you'd be alive so might have to claim no result there as well

maybe better to claim even-night neapolitan? because built-in reasoning for this

but anyway should only claim as last resort much better for us if we don't have to claim today

leaves us a lot more options in the future

and you have a good amount of latitude here to work with

you've done very well with posts appealing to kcdaspot and random nurse, and don't necessarily have to win over the others just need to be eclipsed as 'most likely' by 1-2

i don't know, sorry if i am posting too much here maybe better for me not to to limit potential perspective issues and such

spent some time thinking about potential claims last night in case it becomes necessary

i think if you end up having to claim and want to claim a pr maybe the best bets here would be like

maybe a gated neapolitan or vanilla cop

and the gate could be one-shot or odd-night, one-shot maybe slightly better

though i do not know how you would usually go about claiming such things, could just claim gated also, however you would do so as town i think

it gives lots of options with claiming results tomorrow (can claim based results from my check, or if we pr read someone specific you can claim a vanilla result to check, lots of options) and investigative good to claim because most likely players to simply hammer would be investigative themselves, i would guess there are probably two full town prs in the game since we have like 2/3 of a pr but i am not really an expert on normal design

otherwise vanilla town is also safe of course, safer really

or simply whatever you think is best in terms of gained value or likelihood of survival

will spend more time today thinking about what our current knowledge likely indicates about the setup but that's my thinking at this time

I was thinking something along the lines of 1-shot watcher or jailkeeper but even night neapolitan works. I just worry that if I claim even night then I’ll be limmed. Last game I claimed a N3 Vig role and had to walk it back to Odd Night Vig when it was clear I would be limmed.

I was thinking something along the lines of 1-shot watcher or jailkeeper but even night neapolitan works. I just worry that if I claim even night then I’ll be limmed. Last game I claimed a N3 Vig role and had to walk it back to Odd Night Vig when it was clear I would be limmed.

let's see

like i said above whatever you think is best in terms of gained value or likelihood of survival is okay with me

if you are eliminated the main worry here is my being locked out of the game by prs, so the gained value would generally be in the form of likely pr targets especially investigatives if there are any, so if you claim a hard investigative and are counterclaimed, or if you claim and then someone hammers without saying anything or someone on the wagon starts encouraging whoever to hammer, that sort of thing

do you have any pr reads right now?

of course simply surviving the day also very beneficial and that's where the claims like 1-shot watcher would come into play, claims that might fit into a lot of different setups, maybe a non-consecutive night protective or something, just buying a day and worrying about it tomorrow is fine and good, same reason quick hammering any town at e-1 is good as scum

or claiming something (perhaps something outlandish) and then being like 'i just wanted to claim something because i always get eliminated when i claim vanilla town' if you feel like you are still potentially going to be eliminated is always an option, or even just claiming like 'i always get eliminated when i claim vanilla town so i am a jailkeeper', however you would express that sort of thing,

simply claiming vanilla town hoping for 'would scum claim vanilla town here?' sort of logic from others is also an option but i feel like towns often just eliminate players who do this, it narrows the poe and such

even-night or night 2 claims are pretty greedy in terms of trying to buy two days

part of why i like them is because you can also then be like

'haha scums i am actually one-shot!' at the start of tomorrow if desired

like claiming even-night tracker day 1
then! if we get a pr result on someone with the rolecop claiming you tracked that player to the nightkill at start of day 2
like aha scums, vote: x, x visited {nightkill} last night and should claim,
push for claim and then push for results
then as long as they claim visiting someone else,
unvote and 'just kidding'
i am actually a 1-shot neapolitan
i got a not-vanilla town result on x and thought it might be a red check
if they claimed vanilla they were scum and if they claimed visiting {nightkill} they were very likely scum
but since they claimed something else they are probably town

i think that sort of thing is towny fake claiming

but! it is pretty risky due to unknowns (would be slightly less risky if you were the rolecop) and! i do not know if you generally do that sort of thing as town and i guess there is a non-zero percent chance someone would be like,

'this sure does seem like something medeia would think up'

suppose i could also do some variant of that tomorrow perhaps but i don't know how good of an idea that is

i am much better at coming with ideas than i am at evaluating how good of an idea any of them actually are

Random Nurse seemed like a PR to me but that was vibes more than anything else. If it comes down to it I’ll claim odd night tracker maybe? I think Even Night tracker and VT will most likely get me limmed

Oh wait nvm it looks like I’m not being limmed. Hopefully.

Random Nurse seemed like a PR to me but that was vibes more than anything else.

i think the town contract thing may have potentially been a crumb or possibly a fake crumb of some sort,

and i think maybe(?) skitter is reading it that way as well, i am not really sure

will big magnifying glass through the whole game during the night see if i can find anything

deadline pause and reset a little punishing here but it is okay

same reason quick hammering any town at e-1 is good as scum

might have benefitted from this ^ in retrospect but can’t really factor in replacements etc

If it comes down to it I’ll claim odd night tracker maybe? I think Even Night tracker and VT will most likely get me limmed

i think claiming vanilla town has maybe gone up in value slightly with chicagotypewriter having already claimed but i am not sure

do you generally not place votes in situations like this as town?

night 1

what are your initial thoughts on night actions here?

i haven’t yet been able to think about it too much yet

we probably kill or rolecop chicagotypewriter depending upon how we want to play the day

will sit down and start looking for crumbs later today

outlandish

holy cow, i actually survived

as town i usually only make a vote at the very end of the day but there are exceptions

i think there's a solid chance that Chicago's role isn't confirmable and that we can possibly push him tomorrow - i'd rolecop him and kill someone else.

we shouldn't kill skitter because he hard townreads you and is also widely townread. we shouldn't kill Nurse.

holy cow, i actually survived

as town i usually only make a vote at the very end of the day but there are exceptions

from my perspective the end result of your wagon there was always the goal once skitter asked meuh/chicagotypewriter to vote and it reformed

just had to be patient to get it there

maybe i was supposed to be braver at the end of day and hold my vote until morning hoping for chicagotypewriter elimination

just got a little scared by sheepsaysmeep post and i was going to be asleep and then only somewhat available on mobile so i played it safe knowing random nurse would likely hammer overnight

i think there's a solid chance that Chicago's role isn't confirmable and that we can possibly push him tomorrow - i'd rolecop him and kill someone else.

we shouldn't kill skitter because he hard townreads you and is also widely townread. we shouldn't kill Nurse.

*she, with regards to skitter

if we leave chicagotypewriter alive with hopes of pushing him it likely leads to massclaim tomorrow and then chicagotypewriter possibly being confirmed by the setup unless one of us fakeclaims

if you think you can win a final three here i can probably claim in such a way tomorrow that someone else is eliminated and then i am eliminated at five but 'why would medeia sacrifice herself to setup this endgame' only goes so far as a defense you would then have to go out and win it from there can't just hope to not lose in final three

could maybe try to fakeclaim in such a way that it's just maybe believable to also be in the setup, 'odd-night checker or visitor' that sort of thing, but idk,

i really only want to leave chicagotypewriter alive if we are pretty confident in someone else being a pr to target instead

we need not worry too much about who is townreading me and such, my being alive itself is a liability to some extent

there isn't really an argument that scum!skitter would be likely to leave me alive to try to eliminate me later so if she ever starts thinking, 'hmm maybe medeia isn't so towny', game becomes very tough

like there are angles maybe to try to push her on in the future (partially led a miselimination though got iffy about it at the end in a way that towns sometimes believe is scum indicative even though it really isn't, steered wagon off of you so could in theory be partner indicative if you are flipped, pushed a claimed pr) but ehhhhhhh i am so bad as a scums that ending up in this sort of situation feels unideal

we still need two town eliminations here and can afford one of us to be eliminated in the process just hard to figure out who those eliminations are

okay finally onto crumb collecting mission sorry for delay

i guess we should also try to weigh the likelihood that chicagotypewriter is fakeclaiming as vanilla town here

every newbie informational type material going to tell you not to do that and very wise players and moderators like micc or mykonian going to say even when you think this is a good idea it is a bad idea don’t do it

but would i? yeah maybe

and there are others i believe would as well

just how likely is chicagotypewriter to have done so is the question

and the newbie materials and wiser beings would obviously be correct in this situation

because if chicagotypewriter is lying then

nightkill x
rolecop chicagotypewriter

redcheck with odd-night simple-checker claiming i targeted because it seemed possible (50/50) to me that chicagotypewriter paraphrased partner’s role if chicagotypewriter was mafia and didn’t really know what else to do with it

possibly get chicagotypewriter eliminated and have pretty cleanish claim

or just let chicagotypewriter have to back pedal and possibly get self eliminated

could gain additional information rolecopping elsewhere i suppose

hm,

kinda leaning towards not likely to be a lie though

i guess we should also try to weigh the likelihood that chicagotypewriter is fakeclaiming as vanilla town here

i don't think so tbh, the role 'felt' real

why don't you want to kill random nurse?

i actually think there's a non-zero percent chance this:

simple-checker

is random nurse's role

Medeia, wanna make a Town Contract with me?

It's simple, and I made it up.

Every time I ask you a direct question you answer me upfront without evasion/deflection, and the same for me when you ask me direct questions. It's not fool-proof but it'd go a LONG way in fostering trust. If rejected or broken that'd make the one rejecting/breaking it look Scummy.

I extend this invitation to you.

simple, something that detects evasion, not fool-proof, but if gives a result possibly meaningful

i guess we should also try to weigh the likelihood that chicagotypewriter is fakeclaiming as vanilla town here

i don't think so tbh, the role 'felt' real

yeah, i kinda want to rolecop someone else if we leave chicagotypewriter alive and just get full claim from chicagotypewriter during the day

feels like a bit of a waste to use the rolecop there

i didn't really want to kill nurse because he townread me or at least was hesitant to lim me, but what you've said actually makes sense

i still haven’t finished looking through - doing so periodically on my phone has been A Project

what i get for being exhausted last night though

i think maybe(?) there’s something to be said about the skepticism towards chicagotypewriter’s claim and what that means for likelihood of those players being a pr (probably slightly increased) but that’s not much

maybe three best options to me right now seem like

t3 kills chicagotypewriter
medeia rolecops random nurse

t3 kills random nurse
medeia rolecops skitter

t3 kills skitter
medeia rolecops random nurse

but those are the three players you wanted to leave alive, so

will continue thinking on this,

ceejayvinoya is mostly townread here and hard to find an angle on but there isn't really anything that indicates to me that it's likely ceejayvinoya is a pr, so nightkill might be okay but might also raise some questions and rolecop would just be pr poe

sheepsaysmeep is somewhat townread but once again nothing that really indicates he is likely to be a pr to me, so nightkill kinda okay and rolecop once again just pr poe, either of these would be 'status quo' kills though random nurse is in a way as well

pooky doesn't seem like an ideal nightkill or rolecop here but i really do not want to find myself in a situation where i am confirmed scum to pooky and pooky is 'confirmed scum' to me though that is maybe not relevant until later

if chicagotypewriter is a commuter or hider and we try to nightkill him i would be so so sad, less sad if there is a protective and they protect chicagotypewriter but still a bit sad

but i am not sure how greatly that should weigh on our choice

like chicagotypewriter could also just get a redcheck ya know

t3 nightkills chicagotypewriter
medeia rolecops random nurse

going to placeholder this one for now just in case

should be able to check in again 2 hours or so before the deadline

not sure if clear eyes have made me anymore clear headed

this still feels the simplest most straightforward but

that doesn’t really make it feel ‘right’

but maybe any decision made here is ‘wrong’ if the results are not good

like no way to judge without being results oriented and i can’t be results oriented yet because i don’t have the results

(obviously there is a ‘best’ decision based on available information and such but impossible to actually consider

all

available information)

t3 nightkills chicagotypewriter
medeia rolecops random nurse

sticking with it fingers crossed

sorry if disaster

day 2

@medeia

Action Failed

No result: you could not determine Random Nurses's role.

well those results are Not Good

sorry t3 that’s on me 100%

yeah should have just defaulted to your choices

will brainstorm possible reasons for both results

possible reasons for no nightkill:

chicagotypewriter was doctored, chicagotypewriter was jailkept, chicagotypewriter is a commuter or hider, chicagotypewriter was aligned, chicagotypewriter was rolestopped, t3 was roleblocked, t3 was jailkept, t3 was aliened,

possible reasons for no rolecop result:

random nurse is ascetic, random nurse is a commuter, random nurse was rolestopped, random nurse was aliened, medeia was jailkept, medeia was roleblocked, medeia was aliened,

there are probably others just the first I thought of

oh right bulletproof is a thing that exists

t3 was definitely right about correct approach to chicagotypewriter last night

but back on the horse soon it’s not condemning just need to be better

(and well played to chicagotypewriter as well if you’re reading this in post game)

ah fuck

we’re okay here

i’ll be home in an hour and a half or so

15k to go

you’re probably(?) a vanilla town here but up to you

we need to lim one of pooky/skitter to win here i think

yeah pooky and then random nurse is current line

getting nightkill through going to be dicey but yeah that’s the angle i think

if pooky eliminated then

{skitter, ceejayvinoya, sheepsaysmeep}

is nightkill pool

who it is isn’t important there we would just need to maximise chance of it going through

whichever of us less likely to be jailkept targeting whoever amongst the above would be least likely to be jailkept etc

we need to lim one of pooky/skitter to win here i think

of course line is malleable - don’t think skitter likely to become viable here though - pooky knows she is town so no real angle there

but if successful with the first the second elimination could then be on anyone of course random nurse just seems most likely to me right now

i do not think random nurse elimination would be end of the world or anything either though

which also comes with benefit of making nightkill without risk

might even be good based on my success with the nightkill thus far

yeah, i think the random nurse lim would be most likely. i just don't really see an angle with which we can push pooky today though

alternatively we could go for sheep

i am working on angle with regards to pooky there - just don't really want to disengage pooky from mechanical approach to the game because of where that might lead and chances he becomes very apparently town while doing so and there are risks in joining skitter in pushing for an elimination outside of the pr claims right now so taking a longer term approach

there are certainly angles for pushing sheepsaysmeep as well but again somewhat slippery slope for me pushing outside of the pr claims right now and keeping wagon off of you

doesn't seem a terrible thing for you to explore if you want to though as it doesn't carry that same risk

lmao i have no idea how to push people as scum. i don't think my point was that bad i was just really clunky with my words

night 2

so now one of you/chicago is basically confscum? if you flip then i don't think i survive d4

lmao i have no idea how to push people as scum. i don't think my point was that bad i was just really clunky with my words

idk it's hard to give helpful thoughts because a) i am very bad as a scums in particular but in general as well like far far too many disasters still and b) i am me and not you and i play in the way i do because i am me and while i do often make mental models of other players and how they approach various situations it is still hard for me to not replace you with me when trying to think of how to push people as a scums

but! the way i view things,

it's not that your points with regards to sheepsaysmeep were bad rather that they were otherwise disconnected from what was going on in the game, and there wasn't a way for others to connect them

like towns inherently have a lens through which they are viewing the game, which isn't always apparent and alot of the game as town is trying to fill in those blanks for others,

a large part of the reason it is easier to post as scums earlier in the game rather than later is because at the beginning of the game this lens is clear, everyone is blank the game is blank there is no information and so nothing need be tinted by anything else

but as the game goes on towns start to have reads and views of possible worlds and roles are revealed and such and so everything becomes tinted in various ways for each individual player and scums have to create this lens themselves because they know the solution so it is not naturally there, everything is always clear to a scums

so if you're not giving a way for other players to see that lens through your posts, and you're not filling it in for them when asked and such, then players will generally fill in the blanks with scum intentions

to make it less abstract, if we focus on posts about sheepsaysmeep in particular there,

prior to those posts you made a few posts focusing on the claims without too much followup, and then turned your focus to sheepsaysmeep

so you would either want to connect those things in your posts yourself, or to have it apparent to others how they are connected to you simply by reading, or to explain/fill it in if asked

like this:

i don't really know how to play mafia either and i can relate to frustrations with being scumread if you're town here but noone is asking you to completely solve the game or anything ya know

like just pick a post or something that has happened in the game or whatever and talk about it, the possible intentions you see for those involved, how you are weighing the likelihoods of those intentions, et cetera

like multiple players have asked you about your feelings on your wagon and such and it's like,

did you feel meuh's e-1 vote on the initial wagon was truly accidental? that initial wagon was {chicagotypewriter, ceejayvinoya, pookythemagicalbear, meuh} at it's height and three of those players have returned to your wagon now and the fourth has stated a willingness to eliminate you, does that mean anything to you with regards to their possible alignments?, what possible explanations can you think of for why that wagon dissipated in the first place? skitter then inspired the reorganization of that wagon by asking you/meuh/chicagotypewriter about your willingnesses to vote eachother? did it feel like skitter might have had a sinister motivation for doing so to you? meuh and chicagotypewriter have both expressed doubts about one another's alignments but have also both seemed very comfortable on your wagon alongside eachother, does that seem potentially noteworthy to you? et cetera et cetera

like literally you can just pick anything at all from the game and share your thoughts on it give players a chance to see if you're town

is pretty applicable to most situations as either alignment really

and you just want to ask yourself as many questions as you can possibly think of and then use as many of the answers as you reasonably can in your posts and save the rest for filling in the blanks if anyone asks you any questions or anything

i guess it's not really about pushing anyone solely just flipping over all of the rocks to see if there are worms under any of them

so now one of you/chicago is basically confscum? if you flip then i don't think i survive d4

well, from skitter's point of view the 3 town prs world is the most likely i believe

i think most everyone else may be viewing the game that way though, and my claim has definitely become slightly worse from the jailkeeper flip and such but not irrecoverably so or anything

i think there may be ways for us to play the day that would increase your chances of winning if i am eliminated and will continue to think about that tomorrow

who might you want to nightkill here?

lmao i have no idea how to push people as scum. i don't think my point was that bad i was just really clunky with my words

idk it's hard to give helpful thoughts because a) i am very bad as a scums in particular but in general as well like far far too many disasters still and b) i am me and not you and i play in the way i do because i am me and while i do often make mental models of other players and how they approach various situations it is still hard for me to not replace you with me when trying to think of how to push people as a scums

but! the way i view things,

it's not that your points with regards to sheepsaysmeep were bad rather that they were otherwise disconnected from what was going on in the game, and there wasn't a way for others to connect them

like towns inherently have a lens through which they are viewing the game, which isn't always apparent and alot of the game as town is trying to fill in those blanks for others,

a large part of the reason it is easier to post as scums earlier in the game rather than later is because at the beginning of the game this lens is clear, everyone is blank the game is blank there is no information and so nothing need be tinted by anything else

but as the game goes on towns start to have reads and views of possible worlds and roles are revealed and such and so everything becomes tinted in various ways for each individual player and scums have to create this lens themselves because they know the solution so it is not naturally there, everything is always clear to a scums

so if you're not giving a way for other players to see that lens through your posts, and you're not filling it in for them when asked and such, then players will generally fill in the blanks with scum intentions

to make it less abstract, if we focus on posts about sheepsaysmeep in particular there,

prior to those posts you made a few posts focusing on the claims without too much followup, and then turned your focus to sheepsaysmeep

so you would either want to connect those things in your posts yourself, or to have it apparent to others how they are connected to you simply by reading, or to explain/fill it in if asked

like this:

i don't really know how to play mafia either and i can relate to frustrations with being scumread if you're town here but noone is asking you to completely solve the game or anything ya know

like just pick a post or something that has happened in the game or whatever and talk about it, the possible intentions you see for those involved, how you are weighing the likelihoods of those intentions, et cetera

like multiple players have asked you about your feelings on your wagon and such and it's like,

did you feel meuh's e-1 vote on the initial wagon was truly accidental? that initial wagon was {chicagotypewriter, ceejayvinoya, pookythemagicalbear, meuh} at it's height and three of those players have returned to your wagon now and the fourth has stated a willingness to eliminate you, does that mean anything to you with regards to their possible alignments?, what possible explanations can you think of for why that wagon dissipated in the first place? skitter then inspired the reorganization of that wagon by asking you/meuh/chicagotypewriter about your willingnesses to vote eachother? did it feel like skitter might have had a sinister motivation for doing so to you? meuh and chicagotypewriter have both expressed doubts about one another's alignments but have also both seemed very comfortable on your wagon alongside eachother, does that seem potentially noteworthy to you? et cetera et cetera

like literally you can just pick anything at all from the game and share your thoughts on it give players a chance to see if you're town

is pretty applicable to most situations as either alignment really

and you just want to ask yourself as many questions as you can possibly think of and then use as many of the answers as you reasonably can in your posts and save the rest for filling in the blanks if anyone asks you any questions or anything

i guess it's not really about pushing anyone solely just flipping over all of the rocks to see if there are worms under any of them

i understand what you're saying, thanks. i'll try and apply that tomorrow. i guess i'll probably just do some kind of big reread of the game

so now one of you/chicago is basically confscum? if you flip then i don't think i survive d4

well, from skitter's point of view the 3 town prs world is the most likely i believe

i think most everyone else may be viewing the game that way though, and my claim has definitely become slightly worse from the jailkeeper flip and such but not irrecoverably so or anything

i think there may be ways for us to play the day that would increase your chances of winning if i am eliminated and will continue to think about that tomorrow

who might you want to nightkill here?

i'd nightkill sheep, but i worry that will make a scum!Pooky world less likely to the rest of the town just because sheep is the only person who really townreads pooky

medeia nightkills sheepsaysmeep

i understand what you're saying, thanks. i'll try and apply that tomorrow. i guess i'll probably just do some kind of big reread of the game

i think some likely conversations, at least at the beginning of the day, will be

what random nurse flip means for the other pr claims
skitter world v. scum in me/chicagotypewriter
the nightkill
the random nurse wagon
the hammer

and then other player specific things,

so evaluating those in reread seems good,

so now one of you/chicago is basically confscum? if you flip then i don't think i survive d4

and if you'd think it is likely that one of me/chicagotypewriter is confscum in this situation there's no need to shy away from that,

basically don't worry about my being eliminated when thinking about positioning and such; i will do my very best not to fail in that regard

and any anxieties you have about my flipping or anything you can channel into towny anxieties,

coordinating hammer might not be the easiest for us if the situation arises but we will figure it out

but i worry that will make a scum!Pooky world less likely to the rest of the town just because sheep is the only person who really townreads pooky

i think scum!pooky would quite possibly nightkill skitter in this situation and then say 'i would never nightkill skitter here',

but i do not really think everyone will reach the conclusion that scum!pooky is less likely because sheepsaysmeep is dead,

sheepsaysmeep was hardpushing chicagotypewriter/random nurse as definitely containing a scums and you as the partner,

so his death generally implicates either you/chicagotypewriter or! someone trying to implicate you/chicagotypewriter, so!

i think some likely conversations, at least at the beginning of the day, will be

what random nurse flip means for the other pr claims
skitter world v. scum in me/chicagotypewriter
the nightkill
the random nurse wagon
the hammer

and then other player specific things,

and whether or not we should no eliminate as well

and whether or not we should no eliminate as well

oh yeah - should we push for a no lim? tomorrow i think i might try to buddy up a bit with chicago and weakly echo a lot of what he says

oh yeah - should we push for a no lim?

if that's how you would evaluate it, i don't think it greatly benefits scum!us nor hurts us, so it's just up to how you would view the benefits of it to town!you i think

day 3

if we no lim today, who do you think we should kill tonight? i think we probably kill brass, but i'm not sure. i think we should just do our best to keep the current gamestate because i don't see you getting limmed at any point if things stay the way they are.

uh, i am not sure, i would lean towards skitter but must think about more gather further information et cetera

keeping current gamestate does make sense tho yeah

night 3

so nightkills various potential teams might make:

skitter/x - medeia
pooky/chicagotypewriter - no kill or skitter or brassherald; maybe medeia if afraid of check but i have argued against their potential pairing multiple times and skitter and brassherald have both posited it as a possibility at different times
pooky/brassherald - medeia
pooky/t3 - medeia
chicagotypewriter/brassherald - no kill or skitter, don't think they'd kill pooky even though he suggested possibility of but maybe they would
chicagotypewriter/t3 - no kill or skitter
brassherald/t3 - medeia

basically every team not involving chicagotypewriter would be likely to kill me even if they weren't afraid of the check and then just eliminate chicagotypewriter i think while saying 'chicagotypewriter and partner had to kill medeia because of the check didn't want to get whole team caught instead of just chicagotypewriter'

the ones involving chicagotypewriter would only be likely to kill me if they were explicitly afraid of the check i think and if they were not afraid of the check i think they would be most likely to kill skitter or to no kill

i think brassherald kill would only be somewhat likely to be made by pooky/chicagotypewriter or possibly(?) chicagotypewriter/t3 (you might be able to answer that one better than i can)

but since those are viable worlds to most players it could also be a viable nightkill for us


possible nightkill targets:

no kill - maybe(?) worse than shooting chicagotypewriter; would rather nightkill someone anyway

chicagotypewriter - i mostly don't want to do this because then it's like 'oh scums could have shot chicagotypewriter again' or 'chicagotypewriter trying to make it seem like he was shot again' and then we probably end up sleeping again and yeah, it's a viable option though

skitter - still leaning this way i think, seems logical nightkill in chicagotypewriter worlds and can still be said pooky did it and if leaving me alive anyone who might try to push me would probably want skitter out of the way to do so and such

pooky - nah

brassherald - if you still want to to keep things status quo i am okay with doing so up to you, i'll play the day however it opens ya know, and i am not very wise so if you want to overrule please do so


possible 'check' targets

t3 - can't really claim unsuccessful on you because you're not ascetic and if you were eliminated it doesn't actually make any sense for your partner to have roleblocked me as they would be likely to be framing themselves, don't really want to claim successful on you as it just ties us together a little more

chicagotypewriter - okay so okay so okay so the problem here is that, ascetic chicagotypewriter would have always claimed commuter not bulletproof i think, so an unsuccessful check seems like one of those ever expanding holes, successful check a possible option though

(it probably makes the most sense to use the actual rolecop on chicagotypewriter regardless but i am fairly confident everyone truthful about roles)

skitter - nah; i have a pretty good idea of what a saw music starts to play in my head 'oh no it was skitter all along' paranoid spiral sort of thing would look like because town me has been prone to that sort of thing at times but a) i wouldn't initiate this with a check anyway and b) i generally need to be at like 10 billion percent for that kinda thing to happen as town and i'm at like 35% right now at most

pooky - kinda want to check pooky as i can easily explain why i checked him at length (he was very quick to assume there was an ascetic, unsure of him etc); claiming unsuccessful maybe more okay in this situation because roleblocker would be like, theoretically possible, but i still kinda want to avoid that sort of direct 'oh you're most likely a scums!' sort of thing like pooky can be very obviously town if you give him the solution so i'd rather claim successful

brassherald - just seems kinda difficult to explain why i would have checked brassherald so nah



so nightkill skitter (or brassherald if you would like)
successfully check chicagotypewriter or pooky
rolecop chicagotypewriter

?

submitting these:

t3 nightkills skitter
medeia rolecops chicagotypewriter

as our night actions and then requesting a fast night

but if you'd like to nightkill brassherald instead that is also okay with me as i said above up to you if so just resubmit with brassherald replacing skitter

other potential benefit of nightkilling brassherald would be that it leaves me/skitter alive and pooky was pushing paranoid angle of that possibility

i don't think scum!pooky would be super likely to try to win through that but he might try to look towny doing so and then fall back to you/chicagotypewriter whoever wasn't partnered with him or even! partner and then the other the following day,

and it could also be argued that non-pooky scums would want pooky to push that angle for them, could be their best bet and such

and it's not like anyone is really heavily suspecting brassherald either

guess i just worry that the only like truly viable chicagotypewriter team if we nightkilled brassherald would be you/chicagotypewriter

and that if you are eliminated first the argument that the two of you are not partnered is not actually like a terrible one

i think we should probably kill brassherald. mainly bc i think killing brassherald will preserve the gamestate and also yeah, no one suspects him.

t3 kills brassherald

i think that town will probably just speed through the me/chicago lims and not really give it much of a second thought, unless it is towards limming pooky tbh.

i think we should probably kill brassherald. mainly bc i think killing brassherald will preserve the gamestate and also yeah, no one suspects him.

i guess i still worry that it narrows the worlds like i said above and also if skitter starts to scumread me it is very doomed, whereas anyone else it's just like, ope maybe they're trying to win the game, ya know

i think that town will probably just speed through the me/chicago lims and not really give it much of a second thought, unless it is towards limming pooky tbh.

i don't think there is any chance town will speed through anything here unless chicagotypewriter forces it by voting, otherwise it's going to be super super grindy day if skitter alive as she will rereview and such

especially since everyone currently scumreads chicagotypewriter and it doesn't really make sense for you/chicagotypewriter to kill brassherald if partnered together, so there are multiple flashing red lights for everyone to work through

our associatives are pretty ugly so we also have to be very careful about how voting plays out and such in terms of which teams get confirmed as impossible through that and such

it doesn't really make sense for you/chicagotypewriter to kill brassherald if partnered together

right like brassherald is the only living player that hasn't directly suggested you/chicagotypewriter outside of the two of you

the rest of us have and skitter and i both just did

i think killing brassherald will preserve the gamestate and also yeah, no one suspects him.

and yeah, idk how much the gamestate can actually be preserved because it doesn't actually work as is,

and it's not like anyone really suspects skitter either

like pooky townreads her despite the stated paranoia and i think pooky would always go for me first if he felt pretty certain it was actually me/skitter

and then if i was eliminated in that situation you'd have to then convince chicagotypewriter that skitter was my partner in final three

with chicagotypewriter more or less confirmed

like pooky townreads her despite the stated paranoia and i think pooky would always go for me first if he felt pretty certain it was actually me/skitter

and then if i was eliminated in that situation you'd have to then convince chicagotypewriter that skitter was my partner in final three

this actually nearly impossible because skitter would have had to have decided to eliminate me over pooky so would need to win this at five if pooky votes me

this actually nearly impossible because skitter would have had to have decided to eliminate me over pooky so would need to win this at five if pooky votes me

other option is if pooky/chicagotypewriter vote me you find a reasonable way to hammer and then convince chicagotypewriter that skitter is my partner not you

i think we should probably kill brassherald. mainly bc i think killing brassherald will preserve the gamestate and also yeah, no one suspects him.

yeah mostly i just don't think most potential scum teams here would want to preserve the gamestate or anything like that either

day 4

@medeia

Action Succeeded

ChicagoTypewriter is a 1-Shot Bulletproof.

i think we should probably kill brassherald. mainly bc i think killing brassherald will preserve the gamestate and also yeah, no one suspects him.

yeah mostly i just don't think most potential scum teams here would want to preserve the gamestate or anything like that either

true, although we’re can’t do anything about that now lol

Chicago lied but I don’t think it makes much of a difference in how we go about today

true, although we’re can’t do anything about that now lol

oh it's fine i was still thinking about it and such but i know to keep reminding myself to just play the day

like there's always time to review choices made after the game and i've certainly made dozens of questionable if not outright terrible ones this game

but for now!

pa'lante

i think my only real option is to repeat stuff i've said yesterday and don't really do much else and then hope that skitter ends up voting pooky or ct

if i get voted out today there are gonna be a lot of weird questions about why you didn't get killed

i'll try and leave some more bad associatives with chicago today in case i get limmed

Just realized that I have never voted in ELO during any game on this site ever

As town I always get limmed beforehand and when I’ve quickhammered as scum it’s been in MELO but not ELO.

Just realized that I have never voted in ELO during any game on this site ever

As town I always get limmed beforehand and when I’ve quickhammered as scum it’s been in MELO but not ELO.

lol

i have significantly more experience in elo as a scums than as town

i am a nightkill magnet regardless of how accurate my reads are or how much sense it makes for the game

like i was killed night 1 in my last game despite misreading so hard i doctored a scums (who was caught killing me by a watcher)

and in the game before that i was killed night 2 in a newbie game despite being a claimed vanilla town when two prs were still alive

so i basically never get to play elo as town

As a VT I have been limmed in all but 1 of my games, in which I was killed N1 after making a total of 15 posts while somehow having perfect reads and being widely townread.

As scum I either crash out day 1 or do very well but then get limmed in f6 or so. This game I crashed out day 1 but had a miraculous stoke of luck and am somehow still alive

oh i do not think luck was much of a factor in that

This is wild lol, bloodhail’s main is like, Koba, maybe??? I have no idea but I’m reading through his posts and I’m giggling out loud

Nvm lol he’s peta, that’s what I get for not reading the posts in chronological order

My prospects of staying alive feel very dim

No way I can continue to justify a bloodhail/skitter team

I might as well just roll over and die

or maybe I can vote fake being freaked out scum and vote skitter to get bloodhail to vote skitter? But there’s nothing stopping bloodhail from voting me there.

it’s petapan

still hope for skitter/pooky crossvote so i don’t think you should force vote here

let me know when you're around

let me know when you're around

!!

we can coordinate hammer whenever you’re able

let me know when you're around

!!

we can coordinate hammer whenever you’re able

Im here

I have the hammer typed up, lmk when you do too and then we can hammer

okay ready

say go

say go

go

ayyyyyy good job!!!!!!

medeia's pt:

Spoiler:

pregame

blep

thankyou!

day 1

on one hand i wish i knew how to calm down basically ever

on the other it's not like i have played a calm town game in more than a year

it would be helpful if i weren't so goddamn awful at being a scums

but i am trying

it would be helpful if i weren't so goddamn awful at being a scums

yeah idk

want to repost this basically every time i think about this game

doing okay at diverting pressure to myself and then in theory from there diverting pressure to those pushing me

need some players to be scumreading me anyway to explain my presence later on in the game

couldn't really be like 'okay let's push pooky' there since that would immediately raise serious alarm bells for skitter pooky and meuh

but do need to work on more ways to divert pressure from t3 - in theory the best way is for t3 to simply return and townpost - but do need a backup plan of some sort

there are maybe some exploitable ties to t3 from other players but bussing so meh day one would very much rather not

any sort of plan probably involves very drawn out day and then trying to give direction at that point, which i have enough experience doing as town, though something could easily happen in the meantime

or simply a claim so i should think about possible claims if necessary for both myself and t3 while training

not entirely sure why but the themed youtube videos really help me with having a mafia posting mindset

just gotta keep the themed ones to the mafia pt lol

okay so

current votes on t3 are chicagotypewriter, ceejayvinoya and skitter

with meuh and pooky also having stated scumreads

best alternative outlets currently:

chicagotypewriter onto random nurse, though we'll learn more when chicagotypewriter catches up
ceejayvinoya onto kcdaspot
skitter and pooky onto meuh
pooky onto random nurse
meuh onto chicagotypewriter

waiting for kcdaspot to catchup to see stances, waiting for random nurse to abandon no longer viable wagon on me to see where he goes

lots of time in day and random nurse and meuh can potentially be 4/5 already doing the drawn out day and end of day push thing

so those both feel somewhat achievable

and i think maybe there's some room with kcdaspot here will maybe explore some sort of 'very wary of kcdaspot only focusing on me and then resetting once my wagon was no longer viable and such but we'll see what he returns with and such' soon maybe???

feel like would have to openwolf a bit or even more than a bit for chicagotypewriter push

think ceejayvinoya, skitter, and pooky wagons are probably non-viable today unless something drastic happens, and kinda wanna be nightkilling in this group but really need to look closely for potential prs at some point

i wish i knew how to calm down basically ever

also yeah think maybe it was non-beneficial for me to be posting in the mafia pt but ^^^

and

it would be helpful if i weren't so goddamn awful at being a scums

like best way to divert pressure from t3 is still for t3 to townpost which there is room for with pooky post about 'who do you sus' and is also the purpose of my question towards and there's also room for t3 to walk skitter through thought process regarding the vote/unvote thing which could also 'appeal' to me and such or whatever

so talking about backup plan in pt and such was maybe actively bad yeah

okayokayokayokayokayokayokayokayokay

coffee then i suppose i should do the thing

it would be helpful if i weren't so goddamn awful at being a scums

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

sigh

feel like maybe i have messed this up horribly

just wanted t3 to interact with me so i/others could townread it or glimpses of it

but i think maybe the correct play was to just let t3 be altogether

because he was doing very well with passively letting players simply move on to other pursuits

i was just worried about end of day when everyone needs to find a wagon,

i dunno,

scum!pooky would have taken the openwolf route with regards to chicagotypewriter which i was also feeling out there working on exploring

and scum!flavour leaf would probably just townread t3 without the interaction altogether based on lack of wanting to survive/defend self or something (which i may now explore, also reminder to self that similarities to that one time with andante might be useful)

so i think maybe just misjudged everything here / should have taken a better line

and scum!flavour leaf would probably just townread t3 without the interaction altogether based on lack of wanting to survive/defend self or something (which i may now explore, also reminder to self that similarities to that one time with andante might be useful)

yeah idk 'think scum!t3 would make some effort to appease me' or something like that

training and then we'll see

guess maybe plant the seed and hedge might be better

that was definitely bad posting but grueling day can't do better until later

night 1

sorry meuh

not feeling like i am going to solve this one

look at disaster game

why is it so difficult for me to make basic decisions

like i've now just compiled everything i can possibly think of re: nightkill and rolecop in a notepad and it's just like,

dunno

also when trying to plan out how i think the days will go i realize i am still impossibly prone to wanting to try out increasingly terrible ideas so let's just try to keep it on the tracks here

haven't had to type out

NO MORE IDEAS

recently

but also maybe

NO MORE IDEAS

and

DO NOT GET TOO DISTRACTED

but i am trying

here lies medeia

she tried

day 2

it would be helpful if i weren't so goddamn awful at being a scums

it would be helpful if i weren't so goddamn awful at being a scums

it would be helpful if i weren't so goddamn awful at being a scums

if only i were braver at end of day…

sigh

@moderator,

could i please see what result pms would look like for a checker?

there are sample role pms on the wiki but no sample results

^^

blep

quoting for notification

@moderator,

could i please see what result pms would look like for a checker?

Action Succeeded

Your action was successful.

Action Not Succeeded

Your action was not successful.

thankyou!

okay definitely need a new song or two that make me want to post lacking in desire tonight let's see

i love that anytime i cannot or do not want to solve the game as it is i can just change it into something i do

like ope do not want to build the lego death star anymore it is now the empire state building tada!

that is most redeeming feature of playing as a scums to me

i like how often our thoughts line up (like with the claiming the remaining shots thing) and am going to force myself not to get paranoid about this

this was partly for meuh's benefit if she's still reading the game

wanted to give her a hint something to alert the spidey sense

since her initial feelings were so accurate here and i feel bad

if i were somewhat competent and we nightkilled random nurse i could just

be Towm

and that would maybe be enough

but alas

or if i was just brave at the end of the day



okay no more 'if onlys though'

game is in front of you

save it for after

kinda wish this were a bastard game so i could be like ‘yeah idk what i'm doing’ and then invisibility could be like ‘yeah idk what you’re doing either’ and then i could post mitski’s i bet on losing dogs and invisibility could be like ‘this is nice’

night 2

end of day push there was kinda wolfy but that's the only window i had for doing so since i wouldn't be able to be around from when i was until a few hours ago and it was such a beneficial elimination for us

kinda worried about hell day tomorrow +/

night 3

guess i don’t know why t3 diverted from ‘one scum in medeia/chicagotypewriter’ ‘going to echo chicagotypewriter’ here

everyone scumreading chicagotypewriter now so have to work around that tomorrow

i am pretty sure scum!chicagotypewriter would come into tomorrow with prepared stance/push and try to 1v1 for win while partner was outwardly against it but waiting in case a town was convinced

so i guess i hope town!chicagotypewriter also likely to take that kind of line here

should get working on who to nightkill /claim check on and such so we could potentially fast night just annoying to do on phone

sure have made a lot of catastrophic unforced errors here but just have to win one more day

tomorrow probably going to end up a high volume day don't really understand why t3 thinks town will speed through this without a second thought that just seems so very unlikely to me

guess i don't understand why we're taking this approach to the day either but it's like,

just play the day medeia

just play the day

because it's not like i'm actually any good at all at strategic decisions and if t3 is more confident with this and gets some benefit out of it and such then that's enough

more than enough really because regardless of what we do here,

still have to play the day

probably going to have to be significantly townier tomorrow than i have been since day one

which like, idk, i feel like this is probably pretty stupid to say but that generally feels out of my control lol

like i feel like it just depends upon how i am thinking or feeling at any given time but i don't even know which thoughts/feelings actually constitute a towny headspace so most of the time i am just typing the things i am thinking about and hoping that they are inherently towny things

how my posting is received and such probably does correlate a bit with other things in my life in an observable way (regardless of my alignment) but it's not like i can just continue not to post during my availability windows if i do not think it will go well

mmm, i want to switch the nightkill back so badly

betting against skitter solving the game from this position just seems so wild to me

especially when it doesn't feel like there is any possible recourse if she does

like it would require me to do the one thing that i specifically explained to t3 seemed unachievable to me

and yeah

like she's very very good and i would much rather just cash out here it's just playing with fire to bet she'll continue misreading me forever

which isn't to say everyone else isn't good of course

this is my first experience with brassherald but he seems quite capable,

pooky knows how highly i think of him and

and i kinda assume chicagotypewriter is somewhat likely to have things mostly figured out anyway,

it's just that, i can show how and why those solves would either be incorrect or! scums trying to win the game,

whereas with skitter probably have to say ignore everything that doesn't make sense ignore game state not making sense ignoring feelings ignore intuition just believe in me

which maybe t3 believes in me more than i believe in me

in terms of my being able to successfully do so if necessary

or in terms of my being able to continue to not be eliminated

i just, i dunno, feels like asking a lot of me ya know

but maybe i am misreading the situation altogether

maybe it will be straightforward day like he thinks

or maybe i should rise to the challenge or whatever

because if i fail,

it isn't any less my fault because i whined about it beforehand

like it's not like i don't know what i need to do here regardless

i am pretty sure scum!chicagotypewriter would come into tomorrow with prepared stance/push and try to 1v1 for win while partner was outwardly against it but waiting in case a town was convinced

so i guess i hope town!chicagotypewriter also likely to take that kind of line here

really hoping for this

(might still switch the nightkill back)

day 4

better son/daughter

was almost certainly a scumpost

but it's such an incredible song that it felt too selfish to post it here or in mafia pt

whole album is incredible and! it has given me an idea for future mafia playing use

i wish i knew how to calm down basically ever

it would be helpful if i weren't so goddamn awful at being a scums

yeah idk what i'm doing

yeah no idea re: the replacement just started posting

at least maybe there is like, cutting off angles for myself thing