Open 885: Backup6 [Game Over]

[Black]

third

hi aureal :3

[Black]

VOTE: iamveryhappy

[Black]

dayvig: iamveryhappy

whoa the timing on this O_O

[Black]

i definitely like yeeting and fading people

lim is cool but i went to school with a guy named Lim so i unintentionally think about him a lot haha

[Black]

Aureal stop posting at the same time as me

[Black]

No! How else am I supposed to pocket you!

you should know by now you don't need to try. I exist to be in your pocket. kinda like a baby kangaroo. it's my happy place

Generic trying to read and solve already is probably a good sign?

[Black]

Generic trying to read and solve already is probably a good sign?

Reasoning for my read: I thought the way that Black said this was weird. Like, why not explain why Generic's solving could be a good or bad sign?

there's not really much to explain. i thought Generic's read felt natural

[Black]

I don't mind T3's vote on me. I like that he admitted he was grasping at straws to start discussion

CCG's vote feels bad though. Putting me at e-2 by piggybacking off of someone grasping at straws and doubling down on their point feels off

[Black]

The dayvig was a reference to a random newbie game I tuhink 2123

This was one of my favorite Mafia moments in recent memory

[Black]

CCGeek, how can you find T3's aggression possibly 'faux' but also agree with the point he made?

Oh right because you're scum.

You may be right here

VOTE: CCGeek

[Black]

he's a Snivy! who wouldn't want to see a snake with feet at the zoo?

[Black]

Wait, the black wagon had 2 votes on it at the time?

OH Clems voted for black, I somehow missed that

What difference does it make? Are you implying you wouldn't have voted for me had you known this?

[Black]

Also, black, what even is this OMGUS lol.

meh. I think your entrance to the game is the scummiest out of everyone so far. If voting for you after you voted for me is OMGUS then so be it

Why are you so defensive? Surely you don't mind getting wagoned early D1, do you?

i don't feel like i was being defensive at all tbh. Ironically I do mind getting wagoned but that's always been a thing with me

[Black]

Wait, the black wagon had 2 votes on it at the time?

OH Clems voted for black, I somehow missed that

What difference does it make? Are you implying you wouldn't have voted for me had you known this?

No difference, I simply had missed it and was surprised when you said I put you to E-2.

fair enough

[Black]

But I do have a question for you. In a 9p game, what do you think constitutes as a wagon?

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this question? I'd say 3 out of 8 possible votes qualifies as a wagon

[Black]

Estimated completed games: ~30
Have you had victories in a mafia team?: Yes
Favourite alignment: Mafia, but I would probably like 3rd party more if I could ever roll it. I'm a loner haha

[Black]

But I do have a question for you. In a 9p game, what do you think constitutes as a wagon?

I'm not sure what you are getting at with this question? I'd say 3 out of 8 possible votes qualifies as a wagon

Was an attempt to fish for the statement you made about not minding T3's vote.

T3's vote felt natural and I like the reasoning behind it (wanting to start discussion)

Your vote feels forced and there doesn't seem to be any reasoning behind it other than you think I might be scum based on a weak tone read

[Black]

wait are you trying to say your vote on me was random now?

[Black]

RVS votes are random votes you make for fun. A la my vote on "Clem" as you call him. Your vote had an actual reason behind it so it wasn't really random. One could argue your post/vote was the first attempt to pull us out of RVS even

[Black]

Fav role: TFPTSLBOOIA

what lol

[Black]

wait are you trying to say your vote on me was random now?

To my understanding, RVS doesn't necessarily mean every vote is completely random? I thought it was meant to signify early D1, before any significant content was generated.

ok sure, i agree with this. the weird part to me is you saying your vote is "good enough" for RVS standards. your vote wasn't an attempt to join in on the RVS fun. you were trying to move the game forward

[Black]

Fav role: TFPTSLBOOIA

what lol

The Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Laser Beams Out Of Its Ass

[Black]

This feels like you're... tunneling?

really? I'm just commenting on the one thing that has happened this game lol. We're having a conversation. I don't think I'm in a tunnel yet

anyway I'm fine with where my vote is for now

[Black]

VOTE: black

I think CCGeek's push on you is too inconsistent to be scum, Black

this kinda feels like a perspective slip? in one breath you vote for me, and in the next you talk to me like you think i'm town

also i'm not really sure i understand the point you're trying to make here. can you elaborate?

[Black]

I don't think you are town, but I am not prideful enough to think my read on you is 100% on page 4

I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing 98 comes from someone that thinks I'm probably scum. You conveniently hopped on the wagon built by others and then spoke to me as if you were trying to convince me that CCG is town. If I'm your #1 suspect then it doesn't make sense for you to address me this way. I don't like this at all

You're either scum with CCG or CCG is town and you're playing us both

VOTE: Dannflor

[Black]

Noted

Tbf you

are

pretty surreal <3

[Black]

Some people had a bad reaction to this, for good reason. It's a read that apologizes for itself. When people roll mafia they can often enter a game with a bit of a sense of subconscious guilt. The red role PM weighs on their conscience. It might seem ridiculous to read this much into a "probably" and a "?," but combined with the fact that Black seems like a fairly confident player, I think it betrays someone who is (whether consciously or subconsciously) a little worried that throwing out a read like that is going to be viewed negatively by the other players in the game.

This is built on the assumption that I'm a confident town player. I'm not. I think my town game is fairly weak actually, especially early in a game. I get better as the games goes on and people start to flip. On the contrary I'm much more confident as scum. Red PMs don't weigh on my conscience whatsoever

I think this progression too shows Black is feeling a little self-conscious to be the first one to put a read out there. If Black scum read's CCG's vote on her, why doesn't she vote him in 54? Instead, she waits until she's read and acknowledged Aureal's 51 that shades CCGeek to jump on the wagon. I think if Black had a pure and innocent heart and actually felt bad about CCG's vote she'd put a vote there without any hesitation.

I disagree with this premise entirely. I think it's standard practice for townies to apply pressure where they think it'll be beneficial. I don't even think Aureal's scumread is all that substantial tbh, but I saw an area where I could build on existing pressure and went for it

I also think specifically calling out "putting me at e-2" is slightly scum indicative. It is consistently more likely for town players to not pay attention to where the votes are at when they throw down a vote. Scum players have to be very careful about how they are perceived and how the timing of votes might look later down the line. And while I don't think it is necessarily scum indicative for Black to *be aware* of how many votes she has accumulated, I do think it is scum indicative that she used that as a point against CCGeek, as if she found something objectively scummy with which to discredit his push with.

This feels like a stretch just to try and twist my words to make me look worse. It wasn't CCG putting me at e-2 that I had an issue with, it was the timing and manner in which he did it. I thought I made that pretty clear in 54

Black even then later acts like it doesn't make a difference whether CCGeek meant to put her at E-2 or not, despite using the fact that CCGeek had put her to E-2 as a point of suspicion against CCGeek in post 54.

Huh? You're looking at this backwards. I think it does make a difference. I asked CCG that question because if he did admit that he wouldn't have voted for me if if he knew it would put me at e-2, I would have considered that incredibly scummy

Anyway, I imagine Black is feeling like she's under a lot of pressure for not a lot of reason pretty early in this game. But, I think if she was town, she'd more interested in trying to determine the alignments of the people on her wagon. Instead, she seems more interested in discrediting all the votes on her. I think this is evident in her pushes on both CCGeek and myself.

How do you determine the alignments of people on your wagon? I do it by engaging with them, which is what I've done here and will continue to do. Of course some of that will involve discrediting you because you're wrong about me

What does this actually mean about my alignment? What makes it convenient that I joined a pre-existing wagon? Why would a town player not do this?

A town player could do this, absolutely. I never implied they couldn't

I think "You're either scum with CCG or CCG is town and you're playing us both" doesn't make sense as a real town thought. I think at this point town!Black would have an idea in her head of which is more likely. She'd be constructing a world that makes my behavior and CCGeek's behavior make sense.

At the time I wasn't sure which world was more likely. I've thought about it more sinse then and I don't really see the benefit in scum!you sticking up for scum!CCG this early. I think it's more likely that only one of you is scum

I don't think Black actually believes that because I challenged her read on CCG, that means that I made a perspective slip that makes me scum. I think she feels like she has to push me in this way and if she were town I think there would be more of an attempt to see where I'm coming from.

It was you voting for me and then talking to me like I'm town that made me push you. That sequence felt incredibly informed to me

There's not even an attempt really to build a coherent case against me.

That's because there's not a lot to work with here. You really expect me to build a coherent case on page 5 when you've posted 3 times? You're not lockscum by any means. I'm not going to campaign to fade you based on one comment where I felt like you have an informed perspective

[Black]

and not just because I have a 100% win rate as Mafia

hey me too! Look at us

[Black]

I don't think anyone should be locktowning me tbh. I'm a dangerous scum player. Granted I haven't rolled scum since my first 3 newbie games on the site but that probably just means I'm overdue and you should all fade me ASAP

[Black]

I don't think anyone should be locktowning me tbh. I'm a dangerous scum player. Granted I haven't rolled scum since my first 3 newbie games on the site but that probably just means I'm overdue and you should all fade me ASAP

what is the purpose of making this post?

Because there's absolutely no reason to locktown me and I'm wary that it could be a pocketing attempt. Not really so much in Aureal's case since she's done this before as town, but I'm not sure why Generic is going along with it

[Black]

do/did you suspect Generic because of that?

if you think scum would do that to pocket you I'm not sure why you wouldn't wait to see who would go along with it and who wouldn't

I don't think every scum player would try to pocket in this way but I feel like he might. And I brought it up because I wanted to get Generic's reaction specifically. I'm still trying to parse his reaction tbh. He joked at first, but then once you asked me my motive, he switched gears and basically decided I'm lockscum now

[Black]

VOTE: black

I think CCGeek's push on you is too inconsistent to be scum, Black

this kinda feels like a perspective slip? in one breath you vote for me, and in the next you talk to me like you think i'm town

Just when I think that Black can't get scummier

I don't get it?

[Black]

There's definitely one scum pushing me rn. Maybe two but that seems overly risky for little payoff, so probably just one. After the Panthers game I'll see if I can look back through and figure out who it most likely is

[Black]

well the game sucked last night and now I'm hungover on a tuesday. i'll respond to some stuff later

[Black]

aureal what do you think i should look for specifically in black's town game that is different from her scum game

Apparently Aurreal, besides white knighting black to a ridiculous level that if mafia would be so amateur it’s unreal so I’m going to accept the wifom here that they can’t both be mafia, believes black can never be caught for the wrong reasons and is always town when suspected for a reason she finds weak.

Is that seriously what you are suggesting?

i couldn't help but see this chart when i clicked on the page and i love it. i highly doubt Aureal is suggesting i can NEVER be caught for the wrong reasons. that's kinda ridiculous of you to assume. but yeah she's spot on...this is how my mafia career has gone on this site XD

[Black]

ok i was able to clear my head and i read through the thread again

i still believe that there has to be at least one scum pushing me

rereading makes me think dannflor is the towniest out of those on my wagon. his push on me has felt the most organic. originally i had issues with 124 because it felt like an over-the-top response to me voting for him. after isoing him and cross examining with his other posts, i feel dannflor is being genuine in his suspicions here. while i don't completely agree with some of the points made in this post, it still feels more natural than any of the pushes so far

regarding 164, i think some of the reasons put forth to fade me have been bad or a stretch. typically when 2-3 people latch onto a wagon built on weak reasoning, one of them is scum more often than not. while he's right that it could possibly be a couple of lurkers, i just don't think that's the case here. and while 98 still feels like it could be a perspective slip, i'm fine with not pushing here today

dunn's 180 reads a little weird to me. in the first half he explains why some of dannflor's points are null, in the middle he agrees with a couple of dannflor's other points, and then at the end he decides there's enough here to vote me. i don't understand the point of this if dunn is scum. i think it would make more sense for him to either try to pocket me by defending me, or ignoring all those dannflor points he disagreed with and subtly try to hop on the wagon. the fact that he did both makes me think he's probably town

of the two left, i think the most likely scum is either CCG or Generic. i still don't like CCG's vote and responses to me yesterday even after reading them again. it feels like he wanted to jump on my wagon and then coast. while i wouldn't mind fading either today, i noticed something this read through

Generic had a complete shift in 149. it felt alarming, especially considering that it's based on his assumption that i'm trying to use reverse psychology. i noticed this too:

This is a tactic known as reverse psychology.

I know this well. I do this regularly.

Someone townreads or leans you, you undermine it. You look better because why would a Wolf argue against being town read?

Nope, I’m afraid to burst the bubble but that was me attempting sarcasm… through text… like a moron.

Don’t town clear me off the lamest of attempts at humour please.

here Generic essentially does the exact thing he accused me of doing. in my mind, this implies that either Generic is scum, or he undermines townreads as town. if it is the latter, then why would he be fully convinced i'm scum after i tried to argue against a townlock? it doesn't feel like a natural thought process. Generic's jump onto me has felt the least organic out of everyone, and to top it off he isn't even voting for me despite this:

Just so everyone knows, I refuse to townread black for the rest of the game. Short of a mod clear or a cop check I will be assuming she is mafia. And is currently where my vote will be going.

this feels like an unnecessary extreme if Generic is town here. but the lack of voting me makes me feel like Generic is afraid to get his hands dirty. it feels like he wants dann/dunn/ccg to do all the dirty work for him while he stands on the sidelines pushing the wagon forward

i also don't like his shift on Aureal. in 157 he has her as one of two townies, and then in 176 he calls her "wolfy" and advocates to fade her. this drastic shift feels off, like Generic can't keep track of his own fake reads in the span of a few posts

VOTE: Generic

this is what i think we should push rn

[Black]

i'm having a hard time getting a solid read on Aureal. she's not really doing much this game other than trying to pocket and defend me, which she's done before as town and as scum

i don't have a read on happy or Snivy at all. T3 feels kinda townie to me but it's mostly gut

[Black]

my natural reaction is to get defensive when someone is wrong about me. that's just how my brain works. i realize that may seem scummy but it's something i do naturally regardless of alignment

what are your thoughts on Generic? and can you elaborate on 158?

[Black]

The OMGUS certainly puts you in an even worse light that’s for sure

i disagree. OMGUS isn't inherently scummy. i think you know that though and are just grasping at straws to try and make me look worse

But I’m more than happy to thunderdome day 1.

this is something i suggest when i'm scum to make me look townier XD

[Black]

so you were cool with being patient and letting the day play out until i pushed you, now suddenly you call for thunderdome and are rallying everyone to vote?

yeah, Generic is probably just scum here. i'm fine going first though. i'm at e-1 anyway

[Black]

wow, i'm right about the thunderdome tactic aren't i? that's twice now you brought up 203. what's funny is i wasn't even reading you there, i was laughing at the irony that a potential wolf is using one of my wolf tactics. that comment led you to call me an amateur and say that I "shit my pants". i guess i would be triggered too if someone sniffed my plan out as i was proposing it

[Black]

i think i'm done engaging with Generic here. i would like to hear what others think about the situation

[Black]

no need to get nasty dude

[Black]

my gut townread of T3 has faded a bit. i can see him being a Generic partner after his last two posts were basically run in, shade me, run out

[Black]

This is a tactic known as reverse psychology. I know this well. I do this regularly.

Someone townreads or leans you, you undermine it. You look better because why would a Wolf argue against being town read?

[Black]

generic could be conf biased rn

Wouldn’t be the first time for me. I will take that on board though and try and step back with a more measured eye.

my natural reaction is to get defensive when someone is wrong about me. that's just how my brain works. i realize that may seem scummy but it's something i do naturally regardless of alignment

what are your thoughts on Generic? and can you elaborate on 158?

The OMGUS certainly puts you in an even worse light that’s for sure.

But I’m more than happy to thunderdome day 1.

there's a dissonance here. the evolution from "ill reevaluate" to "let's thunderdome!" is jarring. using OMGUS as the excuse doesn't make sense to me since townies use OMGUS all the time

I’m afraid you are so wrong it’s tragic.

there's dissonance here too. Generic is trying to convince me i'm wrong about him even though he's convinced i'm scum

[Black]

hey you found the popcorn emoji! nice! haha

[Black]

Since I have no idea who the mafia players are why would I be certain to the point I wouldn’t speak to you as a neutral until you flip?

Just so everyone knows, I refuse to townread black for the rest of the game. Short of a mod clear or a cop check I will be assuming she is mafia. And is currently where my vote will be going.

[Black]

you can't keep your fake reads organized

[Black]

you knew 231 was scummy so you had to follow up with a condescending 232 to correct your tone lol

[Black]

Thunderdomes are pretty awful for the town. if you really are town here then the wolves are having a great time laughing about this in the PT. you won't be able to weasel your way out of getting faded D2 and town will already be down 3 members assuming the NK goes through

[Black]

You came after me. You were certain I was a Wolf. You accused my lack of certainty over your alignment as further proof.

So what is this now? Sounds like a lack of certainty black.

Don’t be a hypocrite when you have spent the entire push on me point to inconsistency as my main scum tell this game.

sheesh you are so condescending. and the misrep here is awful

please show me where i was certain you were a wolf? i wasn't certain after my reread and i'm not certain now

do i think it's likely you're scum? yes. but that's very different than what you are accusing me of here

[Black]

i'm pointing out the possible scum perspective behind some of the things you are doing. that's one of the fundamental concepts of Mafia, and people don't generally get accused of misrepping if they are wrong about someone's alignment

what you just did was blatantly misrepresent my stance on your alignment. maybe this wasn't intentional, but you have a belief in your head that i've been certain you're scum when my words say otherwise

[Black]

am i really giving a grammar lesson right now?

of the two left, i think the

most likely scum

is either CCG or Generic

The OMGUS certainly puts you in an even worse light that’s for sure

i disagree. OMGUS isn't inherently scummy. i

think

you know that though and are just grasping at straws to try and make me look worse

But I’m more than happy to thunderdome day 1.

this is something i suggest when i'm scum to make me look townier XD

so you were cool with being patient and letting the day play out until i pushed you, now suddenly you call for thunderdome and are rallying everyone to vote?

yeah, Generic is

probably

just scum here. i'm fine going first though. i'm at e-1 anyway

wow, i'm right about the thunderdome tactic

aren't i

? that's twice now you brought up 203. what's funny is i wasn't even reading you there, i was laughing at the irony that a potential wolf is using one of my wolf tactics. that comment led you to call me an amateur and say that I "shit my pants". i guess i would be triggered too if someone sniffed my plan out as i was proposing it

my gut townread of T3 has faded a bit.

i can see him being

a Generic partner after his last two posts were basically run in, shade me, run out

these all indicate i'm not sure here, but i'm sure you'll find some way to argue that they don't XD

[Black]

Make your mind up. Are you convinced I’m scum or not? Because I’ve already said the logical play here is to flip me.

my mind has never changed. i'm rarely convinced someone is scum

Because you are clearly a veteran of the game. If uou were a or you wouldn’t even hint at it until it was absolutely necessary. But I’m a safe bet.

i've been playing since January. you're the veteran here, not me

[Black]

i think you could be town here. i'm just willing to bet you're not

[Black]

it will be the town's responsibility to remove you after i flip. unfortunately it doesn't look like i'll be getting the pleasure

[Black]

this is bizarre

assume for one second that we are both town. how is flipping you first the optimal play? you claim that i'm some strong player but i would argue my town game sucks early on. we both get flipped here and i don't think it matters who is first

if you're town then you know you're town. town!you has no reason to unvote me here. you shouldn't want to help me unless you think i'm town

[Black]

i'm not trying to offend you Generic, i just don't understand this angle if you're town. it all just feels like a stunt. your reasoning for wanting to get faded before me was because i'm a "strong" player. where did this come from? if i'm such a strong player then why am I at e-1 and the focal point of a thunderdome on page 10? do you see why your plan doesn't make sense to me and this all just feels like a ploy to get townread? help me understand

[Black]

I have an idea guys. How about we pretend the last 10 pages never happened and this is page 1? -_-

i feel like it has been mostly civil. i'm sorry if this isn't enjoyable for you

i should probably just step away for the night

[Black]

I'm glad you're not feeling too distressed by it then, but I would still like to try to yeet scum. I don't feel like this is very likely to accomplish that. Generic seems to be pretty ego-driven, with his fixation on "oooh hoo, I'm gonna catch the one who hasn't been caught!"

What are your thoughts on players not named Generic and Black?

[Black]

CCG stopped receiving attention and started lurking again lmao

I noticed this too

[Black]

feels svt

Can you elaborate?

[Black]

I quite like this post from Aureal but I can't tell if I'm biased because she's so sweet and good to me, or if she really does feel town

I agree that Dunn's post was weird. I guess I just don't understand the wolf motivation behind half defending me and half pushing me. I feel like he would do one or the other as scum

Iavh feels different this game than other games I've played with him. He's clearly keeping up with the thread but he's not offering little anecdotes and opinions like he normally does. Only when called upon does he show up and even then he still doesn't do much. I guess there could be outside influence or something but maybe Iavh finally rolled scum on MS lol. I don't like how he's refusing to take a stance on me/Generic. I think calling us svt with no elaboration is an easy way for him to decide to push one of us depending on which way the breeze blows

I still got nothing on Snivy tbh. CCG probably needs a prod at this point

@Aureal, do you have anything on T3? I've been going back and forth with this slot

[Black]

Iavh's iso leaves so much to be desired. There's zero content here in 3 days

[Black]

Me saying I'm fine with dying first was not a claim. Why do you keep insinuating that instead of just asking me directly if I claimed? I don't understand why you're so sure that was a claim when it seems pretty clear to me that there were emotions involved in the discussion last night, at least on my end. Me wanting to die as long as Generic dies too was an emotional response from me and I'm not sure why you haven't even really considered that

Also, I disagree with most of your assessment of my meta. Especially this part:

scum!Black cares about getting town read, and she posts stuff that she thinks will get her town read.

town!Black seems to care quite a bit less about getting town read and more about solving the game

This proves to me that you don't have a good understanding of me at all. I care way more about being scumread when I'm town. That's why in almost every town game of mine you could pull up I've gotten in early game arguments with people that call me scummy for dumb reasons

[Black]

Cool. I'll add it to the pile of times people read me wrong

[Black]

It's someone that is kinda frustrated at being at e-1 for dumb reasons and would like to take the person leading the charge down with them. I don't expect you to believe me but if you think there's even a 1% chance I'm town then you have to consider the possibility

[Black]

saying you are fine with dying first while at e-1 is basically asking for someone to hammer you, no?

What do you not understand about emotional responses?

[Black]

I don't think this game will ever progress without a black lim tbf

VOTE: T3

I don't think he is trying to solve the game. He voted for me on page 2 and since then almost every post has been a timely pop-in to keep the pressure on me. This post feels like an excuse to not do anything until I'm faded

[Black]

do you think you're out of your scum range black

Probably not

[Black]

[Dannflor]
[Aureal, Dunn]
[Snivy]
[CCG, Generic, iavh]
[T3]

[Black]

Well that's definitely a trade up.

Like night and day

And no Black, I couldn't even remember who the other person who had voted you was when I was writing that post. So no read on T3 right now. Really not up to poking and prodding at that stuff right now to try for one, sorry.

Completely understandable, no worries

[Black]

UNVOTE: Black

The lack of omgus towards Dann and myself gives me pause, and I do think T3's stance here is strange at least.

Do you think scum are more prone to OMGUS? In my experience that's not the case

[Black]

black was at e-2? she's probably town for that lol.
haven't read anything except skimmed the most recent page, will do later.

e-1* but yeah...

It's good to see you but I'm a bit wary of your slot so forgive me

[Black]

Abnegation's catch-up so far is fine. I don't agree with the concept of meta being the driving force behind a read and I find it interesting that this now makes two people in the game that pretty much only townread me based on stuff from other games. I don't really think it's a pocketing attempt though, at least it feels less like pocketing than what Aureal did because Abnegation seems to be interested in other slots

[Black]

you think aureal and black make sense as scum partners?

No. First there was Aureal and Black’s friendly interaction in the early pages which I don’t usually see come from scum. As far as I can tell, Black and Aureal know each other from another site or IRL or something and if they were scum also I doubt that they would have this interaction in the thread. In fact, I had an MS game a while ago in which I rolled scum with a guy I was friends with on another site and we kept all of our excitement at seeing each other in the scum PT.

As for Aureal’s defense of Black, I can’t see that coming from s/s either. I think the defense is scummy in of itself because Aureal claims that Black is towny and only posts the defense later. However, I doubt Aureal would be so aggressive about defending Black if they were both scum.

Plus in 198 I would expect s/s Black/Aureal to townread each other more. But Black says that she can’t get much of a read on Aureal, and says that Aureal both pockets and defends her as town and scum. I can see that post coming from town!Black who is concerned about pocketing or scum!Black who wants to keep the option of a town!Aureal lim open.

What makes me scummier than Aureal?

[Black]

VOTE: T3

hmmmmm what a vote

Do you have any reads besides Aureal town?

[Black]

ok i have a question for everyone here

when you roll scum, on average, how guilty is your conscience

Firstly welcome to the game! I don't think we've met unless you're an alt

I don't have a guilty conscience when I roll scum. I'm elated. Sometimes I feel guilty throughout the course of a game but that's usually based on personal relations and me stressing people out that I really like

[Black]

351 feels townie in tone and thought progression. I don't really agree with the conclusion though

[Black]

re: guilt

idk I just generally dislike lying to people

I don't feel good about manipulating people and often if I do so successfully I feel bad about it. I generally feel relief when I am caught as scum.

how does this help you sort me, or is just general curiosity

I think for me it depends on who I'm playing with. It hurts me to cause certain people distress, but others deserve it

[Black]

I don't think this game will ever progress without a black lim tbf

VOTE: T3

I don't think he is trying to solve the game. He voted for me on page 2 and since then almost every post has been a timely pop-in to keep the pressure on me. This post feels like an excuse to not do anything until I'm faded

Sure? I mean, I have reads on players that are not you but I haven't been particularly expressive of those reads. I understand where this read comes from though.

this feels like a townpost tbh

Why? I'm not seeing it and tbh I'm not sure why anyone is townreading T3 at this point

[Black]

T3 can you answer 342? Why vote Dann here instead of Aureal?

[Black]

Sorry I'm a little busy this weekend

I'm not caught up but I'm ok with a T3/Iavh lim. I'll try to play catch-up on Monday

[Black]

meowmeow gives Datisi or Ausuka vibes

i am an alt of ausuka

So we have met! Tbh I wasn't getting Ausuka vibes from your posts

you felt more uninformed

Idk i kinda liked your post where you were like

Wow idk what to do here i just had a slight town lean on Black

Idk you feel better for some reason I can’t quite put my finger on, but I just feel so much better about the way you’ve interacted with the game and found things to comment on, it feels way less agenday

I like this post by Dann. It reads as a genuine analysis of CCS

UNVOTE: Black

The lack of omgus towards Dann and myself gives me pause, and I do think T3's stance here is strange at least.

i don't know much of dunnstral's posting feels like he's waiting to see which way the thread is going to go

I feel like town!Dunnstral would have a new target in mind here to put pressure on

I think the reason he's backing off of Black is weird because... Black was already OMGUSing Generic, it's not like she can realistically or believable OMGUS all the people pushing her. it just feels a bit made up as a reason to back off of black. I kinda just think Dunnstral would have a better reason here

I wasn't talking about Generic, I was talking about Black's read on you and myself.

And no, I don't have another target in mind.

Dunn you still never answered my question in 338

T3 can you answer 342? Why vote Dann here instead of Aureal?

Recency bias tbh

This post feels honest but a lot of T3's posts in these pages have this feel to them that they are carefully crafted to seem carefree, and therefore townie. I admit there could be some confirmation bias here but I'm just not getting the same genuine town vibes from T3 as I am from someone like Dannflor

meowmeow makes me continue to townread her slot.
i like many of the points made in her case on dann in 351. the unvote is interesting though — meow definitely still had a case there, it was only that one piece that had been refuted. i think scum might be more inclined to keep voting there, or at least i would be as scum.
or actually, @meow - why did you consider dann's response there to be worth an unvote?

I really like this post and it makes me feel even better about this slot. Meow's unvote did feel a little premature when I first read it and I like that Abnegation is seeing the same thing

Oh it's a kitty. I guess I can give her a chance to do something with the slot. VOTE: Dannflor

Why do you think I'm town? I wouldn't say I'm playing much like our previous game.

ok i have a question for everyone here

when you roll scum, on average, how guilty is your conscience

I think I'd have to be able to roll scum more than once within memory to have an 'average'. But yeah, to belabor the point, it was more 'cunning glee' than 'guilt' for the most part. Which I now try to attain as town with ridiculous sneaky plans when opportunities arise.

it isn't a meta read, i think your posts this game are towny

i think 279 in particular comes from scum a very small amount of the time. i think the point about what dunn and dann are doing is like... good and insightful and vibed a lot with how i was feeling as i read the thread. i generally like the sarcasm, both in that post in 172 - it feels consistent and genuine to me, and i think the intuitive approach as scum is to be more polite to dannflor since you really couldn't give an expletive about anything he's saying about black and that's just helpful in case you need him later.

I like this post. To me it indicates meow is thinking about the game deeper than surface level

T3 and dunnstral are both fine votes from me but I don't think T3 has gotten worse per se

UNVOTE: T3

VOTE: Dunnstral

To me it feels like T3 is only "better" because he's trying to come across as townie, which isn't really better at all

Where is your head at with regards to this game dunnstral

iamveryhappy has really empty posts where they don't put forth a lot or comment on things. Their 427 does not make sense. I am not seeing a reason to not vote for them, so i will do so.

VOTE: iamveryhappy

You are so wooden that I think you're probably town.

i get "too scummy to be scum" logic in some cases, but i'm not seeing how it applies here. isn't wooden-ness when someone is having difficulty posting in a way that looks natural? not something someone would intentionally avoid doing as scum. why do you think it's town-indicative here?

I like how Abnegation is challenging Aureal's read here.

alright, i think i'm fine with doing this now.

VOTE: dannflor

e-1.

i could probably be sold on dunn or iavh, but currently my feeling towards those slots is more like "well, i don't

not

want to vote there."
also quite liking the wagon composition on dann.

I don't understand this vote. Dann feels like the most townie person in the game imo and there is nothing here to explain why he's the best fade? Did I miss something?

wait dann had a wagon?

ok thats particularly weird, im not 100% opposed but im not hammering by any means

I agree it is weird but I want to hear why you think so since you're not opposed to fading there

[Black]

I would rather fade Dunn over Dann but I think T3 is more likely to flip scum than either of them

[Black]

Why the fuck do I have to decide it
GUHHHHH I hate these moments

Consider this your punishment for not doing anything this game

[Black]

why is dann your top townread?

I think Dann has shown enough townie thought processes to at least be kept around longer. Everything just feels genuine from him. I haven't played with him before and I'm assuming he's a good scum player but I feel like he's an asset if he's town and I don't understand why he's a better fade than T3 or happy

[Black]

Aureal what is your read on T3? iirc you didn't have a read on him last I checked

Why is Dann your #1 fade choice here?

[Black]

To me it feels like T3 is only "better" because he's trying to come across as townie, which isn't really better at all

can you elaborate here? i think you're probably town based on other posts and usually have good reads but like... i am really not seeing your pov on t3 and dann right now

I was trying to say that T3 feels better recently than he did a few days ago, but that might be because the pressure on him has increased and he's putting on his best townie act. I think T3 is more likely to flip scum than Dann here. Did I make this stance confusing or something?

[Black]

Why is Dann your #1 fade choice here?

Aureal did you miss this question?

[Black]

ok
*jumps over Dannflor who is cosplaying the cop*
I get the $200

The suspense is killing me

hopefully

[Black]

CCS feels kinda town on this page. Dunn's push reads a little forced to me

[Black]

if t3 flips red i think that spews Generic town 32

probably spews black town

maybe ccgeek? 121

i don't think the amount of shading t3 does towards aureal in 340 really comes from partners

that leaves [iavh, ccs, dunnstral] as possible partners

I think I would still pick dunnstral out of those 3 probably but idk

i think if t3 is scum here they probably want to be in a bussing position

I think if I'm right about the gamestate T3's partner is someone calling me town and bussing

I don't think CCS or iavh positions really make sense as a T3 partner

if T3 flips scum I think it's like only [Black, Dunnstral] that could possibly be partners

This feels a little inconsistent, at least in regards to my slot. Am I spewed town or a likely T3 partner? Can you explain your thought progression here?

[Black]

I think Dannflor is just bullheaded. If they were mafia they wouldn't keep pushing me when they're at E-1 and I've been voting the other guy the whole time.

What do you mean? He voted for T3 right after you did to get the wagon to 3 votes

[Black]

What I mean is that I don't see why Dannflor, if mafia, would continue to push me when I'm not one of the players voting for them

I don't understand why you think scum!Dann would only push you if you're pushing him. If he's scum and you're town then he needs to remove you from the game to advance his win con. Planting doubt around your slot by including you in the PoE helps achieve that

[Black]

it’s inconsistent cause i changed my mind

I looked at some T3 scum games and saw he likes to bus and got worried

I probably would not let you end game if T3 flips red

That's fair

[Black]

Why should you pushing me make me scumread you?

[Black]

Dann has a good point regarding Generic and thunderdomes and I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned it. I think the effort Dann put into researching Generic's scum games from other sites is town indicative. If he were scum then I don't understand why he would go through all that effort just to not push there

I think Abnegation was fairly townie when she entered the game. Townier than Generic for sure. I'm not really sure I'm getting scummy vibes here. I agree with her that activity level isn't alignment indicative for her

@Dann can you elaborate on your Abnegation scumread?

[Black]

Also lol, good thing you remembered not to use a question mark there

OMG

[Black]

the entire t3/dunn/iavh/snivy block is very "meh" to me.

What's wrong with Snivy?

[Black]

UNVOTE:

pretty sure that comes from mafia who wants to claim a pr before he dies not an actual pr

how about let’s intent t3 if you think I’m town now and t3 is in your meh pile and you have no other scum reads

is there a world where dann is mafia and noticed what he thought was pr softing and told me to declare intent so he could get confirmation?

I mean yes but I feel like it's a stretch

[Black]

ofc I wouldn't want to fade T3
I caught onto that soft and by the time I was available to hammer the CW I can't tell between Dann and Dunn I'm dumm kek
great I love being a wagoned

I find this hard to believe. I think you would have acted against Dannflor if you had really seen T3 soft Doctor early. Being confused by names doesn't really make sense; again, you had several days to decide on something.

Yeah I'm not buying this at all lol

VOTE: Iavh

[Black]

I think Aureal missing my question twice is probably town indicative XD

I think scum!Aureal pays way more attention to the thread and my slot in particular and doesn't miss my questions or ignore me

[Black]

Dann has a good point regarding Generic and thunderdomes and I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned it. I think the effort Dann put into researching Generic's scum games from other sites is town indicative. If he were scum then I don't understand why he would go through all that effort just to not push there

I think Abnegation was fairly townie when she entered the game. Townier than Generic for sure. I'm not really sure I'm getting scummy vibes here. I agree with her that activity level isn't alignment indicative for her

@Dann can you elaborate on your Abnegation scumread?

Logically, the meta evidence presented by Dannflor only supports the conclusion that Generic would do that as scum, refuting the idea that he's town for it. It would be hard to conclude that the slot actually is scum for doing it because that would require evidence that he wouldn't also do it as town.

I agree. Looking back on it, I feel like Generic's 204 was a bit of an over the top response to my 203. Me saying that I sometimes suggest a thunderdome when I'm scum seemed to push him to double down on the thunderdome and then vote for me. 204 feels a little defensive knowing he

does

propose thunderdomes as scum. Like he could have just said "yeah me too" but instead he chose to say "I'm not you" and then he geared up for a big push on me. I don't think this makes him scum but it's concerning when reading over it again

[Black]

I think Dunnstral could be scum

I feel like his interaction with Snivy around 615 was disingenuous and it kinda feels like he was pushing Snivy there just to look like he was doing something. I also think his read on Dann in 622 has an informed air to it. I didn't like his response to me questioning this read in 625 and he never answered my 627

I've played with iavh like six times and he was town all those times. He didn't play anything like this in any of those games. I don't think this makes him scum but I don't think he's done anything remotely townie this game

[Black]

I think I'd rather go Dunn here tbh

Dunn pushing Iavh to hammer low-key feels like he was ok with either Dann or T3 being faded and wanted to encourage iavh to make a decision while the game state was in his favor. In general it feels like Dunn has more of an agenda and Iavh doesn't seem to have one at all

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Black]

if i assume black is town

then i think scum is just [iavh/dunnstral]

ig this is still the simplest solution

but it feels too easy

Easy? This is like your fourth solve

[Black]

Well iamveryhappy? What's it going to be?

Why the fuck do I have to decide it
GUHHHHH I hate these moments

What are you thinking champ?

iamveryhappy, do you scumread either of the players at e-1?

If Dunn flips scum I want to say iavh is probably spewed town. I don't think those two players plan this theater out in the PT with Dunn asking iavh this over and over again only to get ignored

[Black]

technically it was my 2nd solve

Oh wow you're not lying lol. Impressive if correct tbh

[Black]

Dunn is at e-1

[Black]

Is it really that hard to look at the last page? XD

Someone said you were too carefree to be scum and now you're just running with it huh

[Black]

No but if you're scum then I think you would probably lean into it a little

[Black]

@mod: I will be V/LA until late Monday/early Tuesday

[Black]

dunnstral / black

We're partnered because I'm busy this weekend?

[Black]

VOTE: Abnegation

[Black]

Do people think Abnegation's posting here was scummy, surface-level or otherwise? I don't get it. I can't say she's not in my poe but nothing here pinged me.

For me it's mostly PoE. I don't think her posting has been that bad really but some of her actions give me pause. I didn't like the way she sheeped meowmeow to put Dann at e-1. It didn't really feel like her scumread there was substantial enough to warrant that. She kinda did the same thing to Dunn except that was a hammer when someone else had already declared intent. I'm just getting vibes that there is an agenda here even though the posting has seemed a little carefree and uncertain

[Black]

Aureal/Snivy feels tvt to me

[Black]

i also wanna know why iavh is so town to him

iavhmeta!

Hi. Who do you think is scum?

[Black]

ehhh, sure.
i kind of just want this day to end and i have a bunch of "meh" people and t3 is one of them so...

intent to hammer t3.

i just want the day to end, let's end it on a pagetop.

VOTE: dunnstral

Why did you want day to end so badly?

[Black]

I really wanna yeet someone

ofc I wouldn't want to fade T3
I caught onto that soft and by the time I was available to hammer the CW I can't tell between Dann and Dunn I'm dumm kek
great I love being a wagoned

At this point you really wanted to yeet someone but you had supposedly caught onto T3's soft. So why didn't you vote for Dannflor after the first quote?

[Black]

ofc I wouldn't want to fade T3
I caught onto that soft and by the time I was available to hammer the CW I can't tell between Dann and Dunn I'm dumm kek
great I love being a wagoned

also why would I hammer when I know I'm basically kingmade in that situation, we could easily squeeze a few days of discussion in there
@Dunn I don't like ur logic

This kinda just feels like a bad excuse not to hammer Dannflor

[Black]

Saying you didn't hammer so we could have a few more days of discussion when you're not bringing any discussion to the table feels weird

[Black]

i mean i want to agree but how likely is it that scum dannflor just lets happy do that

I don't know how scum Dannflor plays, and even considering your anecdote I still think this sequence of events from happy is very strange

[Black]

ofc I wouldn't want to fade T3
I caught onto that soft and by the time I was available to hammer the CW I can't tell between Dann and Dunn I'm dumm kek
great I love being a wagoned

also why would I hammer when I know I'm basically kingmade in that situation, we could easily squeeze a few days of discussion in there
@Dunn I don't like ur logic

This kinda just feels like a bad excuse not to hammer Dannflor

You think scum iamveryhappy would be so hesitant to hammer town Dannflor?

I'm considering a world where they are scum together

[Black]

idk

[Black]

i mean i want to agree but how likely is it that scum dannflor just lets happy do that

I don't know how scum Dannflor plays, and even considering your anecdote I still think this sequence of events from happy is very strange

i can see scum!iavh acting just as awkward in a situation where he is a kingmaker between two town wagons

idk if he's actually scum yet but that would be a very awkward position to be in especially as inexperienced scum

I feel like he's much less likely to freeze in a situation where the game state completely favors him

[Black]

you guys are finally figuring it out

Didn't you say iavh is town and you'll die on that hill?

[Black]

do you think there's a benefit to scum!me in hammering the wagon myself instead of allowing t3 to do it?

Nah, the hammer itself didn't ping me as much as the reasoning behind it. Or lack thereof really. It felt like you jumped from Dann to T3 to Dunn and it didn't really seem like you cared which of the 3 were faded. I guess I would expect town!you to differentiate between the 3 and determine which is the scummiest instead of just going with the flow and wherever the wagons led you

[Black]

Or am I the only one who tries to think about gamestate like this?

I don't think I put enough brainpower into the game to think of it this way

[Black]

Or am I the only one who tries to think about gamestate like this?

I don't think I put enough brainpower into the game to think of it this way

But you post so much more than I do.

BTW can you elaborate on why you think Snivy is town? He's really kinda frustrating me right now with his like, total disregard for explaining most anything about his pov.

I like the social aspect of the game but trying to figure out why people do what they do is hard

I'm not really confident in my Snivy read. I think his posts just give me townie vibes in the way that there doesn't really seem to be scummy motives there. Like what's the point of pocketing iavh? I feel like that doesn't benefit scum!Snivy as much as pushing him would. I think some of his posts seem a little too carefree like it could be an act but I'm not willing to believe that yet

[Black]

do you think there's a benefit to scum!me in hammering the wagon myself instead of allowing t3 to do it?

Nah, the hammer itself didn't ping me as much as the reasoning behind it. Or lack thereof really. It felt like you jumped from Dann to T3 to Dunn and it didn't really seem like you cared which of the 3 were faded. I guess I would expect town!you to differentiate between the 3 and determine which is the scummiest instead of just going with the flow and wherever the wagons led you

Also, I do feel like while this isn't great in a vacuum, this attitude is possibly town indicative for Alianna at this point. I just finished a game with her and she wasn't seeming terribly motivated there either. Whereas I feel like if she got a Mafia role she'd be more likely to go "yeah!!! Curse is over!!!" and put in more effort.

Hmmm. This is possible. I'll take a look at that game tomorrow morning

[Black]

Abnegation could be town. I was able to look over the game and I find similarities in tone and productivity. The difference I'm seeing is it doesn't feel like she jumped on many wagons that game. She voted maybe 3 times that whole game and stuff like her vote on T-Bone in #259 was accompanied with lots of previous finger pointing and her providing reasons why he's probably scum. I guess I'm not seeing that same effort here. I'm not really sure what an Alianna scum game would look like but I would imagine she would try her best to mimic her town behavior rather than go all try hard mode and put in a ton of effort

I need to consider a town!Abnegation world a little more

[Black]

i think the only way that aureal dies is if i die here so that kinda sucks for me

dann why did you vote me and revoke it anyway

Why do you think Aureal/Dann is the solve?

[Black]

if aureal is town then she decided to make a read off of one thing on the second day which is a terrible move in my opinion

Was it a terrible move because it involved sussing and voting you? To me it really seems like she believes you could be scum. She put thought into your other games in relation to how you're acting here and questioned me on my townread of you. I don't really think Aureal has been scummy and her stance on you feels more like a town progression imo

[Black]

dann not only was in my iamveryhappy/dunn/dann poe but he is kinda just sitting on the sidelines and NOW is pretending to not be confident on me

I can kinda see where you're coming from. Dann doesn't have the same drive he did D1 but I'm not sure how alignment indicative that is

I'm not really liking how Dann backed off your wagon. Abnegation/iavh/me were the only people that could hammer here and two of us have town leans on you and the third is, well, iavh (no offense). I guess it could be scum realizing the hammer wasn't going to happen

Idk, I still think Dann has shown a lot of naturally town thoughts this game. If he's scum then he's incredible at it

[Black]

I don't know why you aren't more suspicious of me Black

I think this is the second time you've said this. Why?

[Black]

as scum you can't just scumread every potential elimination candidate - i mean, i guess you could, but that's likely to go badly. scum are probably more likely to townread anyone who they think 'looks towny' or they think they would townread as town

Ok. You probably know more about this than I do. Do you think iavh has looked particularly townie this game? Wouldn't it make more sense for Snivy to just push the LHF?

but i think snivy's defense of happy here feels a bit off/unnatural, like he knows happy is town already - i think his aureal read is off too

I agree that his read feels a little off but I don't think that's scum indicative

[Black]

I would be naturally suspicious or at least paranoid of someone who tunneled me most of D1 and also has been widely scum read

I strongly disagree with your assessment that I tunneled you most of D1. And yeah you got to e-1 but I don't think the reasons provided to vote for you were very good at all

[Black]

Oh I think I read the first part wrong. I am paranoid about you

[Black]

i mean you are inherently arguing here that snivy as town thinks iavh looked towny. the idea he could not have thought the same thing as scum, but could as town, is ??? to me

I'm not saying he couldn't have had that thought as scum. I just think townbinning iavh would be a weird play for scum to make. It's possible though

[Black]

meow can you elaborate on your Snivy scumread

[Black]

oh also

mine.

I can't believe this

[Black]

Oh no, Snivy set Alianna up for a page top, clearly they're working together!

I don't even know what to think about Snivy's supposed suspicion of me now, it's so obviously off base that maaaaybe it isn't that likely to be scum. "One thing on the second day" really??

I really don't know where else to look though,

Abnegation and iamveryhappy give me more mixed signals and I just kinda want to townbin the rest of you.

Meh
Lazy

This is kind of ironic coming from you. Can you please play the game?

[Black]

I feel like Snivy's start to the day tracks with his reads? Unless I'm missing something. Dunn died and he townread Alanis, so he was left with Dannflor. He voted for Dann and then considered you as his partner

[Black]

I'm going to be a bit busy this weekend, just a heads up

[Black]

oh my bad

this game is going kinda slow, yall wanna conslidate on me/dann/aureal?

I could probably go Dann. What's your read on Abnegation?

[Black]

I'd rather fade you than Aureal or Snivy tbh

[Black]

shes lean town

nowhere near a good lim

Can you elaborate on this read? Wasn't she in your PoE?

[Black]

Just because Snivy suggested some names doesn't mean anyone has to go along with it. There are in fact other players in the game!

can you tell me why you think its abnegation? the only thing i think doesn't make me townread her is some of her votes

oh that's also to you black

For me it's a combination of not having any solid scumreads and a mixture of Generic/her own play. I think Generic was pretty scummy and Aureal already touched on the thunderdome thing. Abnegation felt better at first but now it feels like she started coasting after getting townreads

[Black]

If Abnegation flips scum I actually think Snivy has team equity. I don't scumread Snivy independently of this theory but I think it's weird how he proposed we consolidate onto him/Aureal/Dann after Abnegation became the vote leader

I remember Abnegation sheeping my read on Snivy too but I'm on mobile at the fair so I can't fully look into this right now

[Black]

I think there's a world where he's scum and his whole agenda has been to put on this nonchalant townie act with townslips, not paying attention, etc, but some of his posts/interactions and stances have felt genuine enough for me to really doubt this

Talk to me about your Abnegation read

[Black]

ugh why is this game so hard?

Spoiler: need to scream into void

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

I feel similarly

the secret is always act like you know what you're doing even when you absolutely don't

no one can know

I think at least one of you is having a hard time for a different reason than myself

[Black]

What's so difficult about this game is that it's very likely that both scum are really good at seeming townie. Scum!Alanis is the exception here

[Black]

Oh no, Snivy set Alianna up for a page top, clearly they're working together!

I don't even know what to think about Snivy's supposed suspicion of me now, it's so obviously off base that maaaaybe it isn't that likely to be scum. "One thing on the second day" really??

I really don't know where else to look though,

Abnegation and iamveryhappy give me more mixed signals and I just kinda want to townbin the rest of you.

Meh
Lazy

Oh no, Snivy set Alianna up for a page top, clearly they're working together!

I don't even know what to think about Snivy's supposed suspicion of me now, it's so obviously off base that maaaaybe it isn't that likely to be scum. "One thing on the second day" really??

I really don't know where else to look though,

Abnegation and iamveryhappy give me more mixed signals and I just kinda want to townbin the rest of you.

Meh
Lazy

This is kind of ironic coming from you. Can you please play the game?

Was... that comment directed at me? I don't know that 'ironic' is a strong enough word to describe it if so.

That was very ironic

Alright, iamveryhappy shall henceforth be referred to as Alanis.

[Black]

Hi Alianna. I hope you're having a good weekend. What's your most confident read atm?

[Black]

[Black]

Hi Alianna. I hope you're having a good weekend. What's your most confident read atm?

i townread alianna.

What's your second most confident read?

[Black]

i don't think scum snivy has to put on an act to not be paying attention for the most part, tbh

That's fair. I would never not pay attention as scum but I also realize projecting my own playstyle onto others isn't the best way to read them. I just feel like scum are more likely to pay attention so Snivy's iso feels like an act if I try to assume the scum motivation behind it

[Black]

VOTE: Dannflor

I kinda wanna let Alianna cook

[Black]

Hi Freedom

Really bad day for me so I don't think I'll be posting much today

[Black]

Abnegation, how do you feel about a Dannflor vote?

[Black]

My hero solve is Dann/Abnegation so I'm ok voting either of them today

[Black]

VOTE: Abnegation

[Black]

That's e-1

[Black]

Uh this is awkward. I would really like a claim before we push this through

[Black]

Oh jk I forgot about Generic's claim

[Black]

if abnegation flips scum track me

if i'm the tracker i'm confirmed town and will target aureal

??

[Black]

Is it just me or does that seem like a scum slip

[Black]

Uhh. Ok

[Black]

fwiw i was thinking aureal was the tracker d2 starting with how she responded to snivy's whole thing and then i ctrl+f'd her iso for 'track' and saw a hit and i was like mm ok

i wasn't super duper confident in that and thought it was even possible aureal was just scum but it was the line of thinking i was going down when i wrote that post - i was trying to tell aureal like, if you're the tracker, go ahead and track me because i do not feel like dealing with this bullshit

afterwards i realised i fucked up

and tried to draw the nightkill and pretend to be the tracker because that was the only thing i could see working. obviously it didn't - i imagine scum would have planned to cc me if i was actually the tracker regardless.

i mean it was a stupid post to make and i need to learn more from my scum game when playing town tbh. i'm not sure what other people's reads are but i am not getting the sense it will be very likely to win this game which is mostly my fault

I'm not really buying this tbh

I don't think town!meow considers 1198 a "fuck up" but I think scum!meow does. It's not like she outed who she thinks the tracker is, she just made it seem like she knew there was one. Why would town!meow's first thought be "oh I fucked up"

i do want to question why black thought it was a scumslip at first rather than possibly a tracker-slip

i thought dannflor's reaction was more natural

I don't think a "tracker slip" would involve you telling someone to track you

[Black]

I think it's meow/x

My gut tells me Dannflor makes the most sense but it could be Freedom. I've been giving iavh somewhat of a pass because it hit me somewhere along the way that iavh's difference in play this game might be due to him being a PR, but that's not possible anymore

The only person I have any confidence in them being town is snivy

[Black]

Black I don't know why you think a meowmeow/dannflor team would have meowmeow hard bus me D1 to E-1 and me hard town read her all the while

I haven't gotten the chance to look over your interactions to see if they make sense as a pair, I'm pretty much going off of gut

[Black]

I'm off to bed but I'll have time tomorrow to make a more educated guess

[Black]

... why would i not care about the idea of getting miseliminated. i'm not stupid, i knew if abnegation flips town it's elo immediately afterwards. this makes negative sense to me.

i mean, presumably the whole point was that it looked like tmi that a tracker exists, so why wouldn't me being a tracker be a possibility there? this is a nice line to use in an argument but it makes absolutely no sense in context - i specifically said like if i'm the tracker i would be confirmed town and track aureal

So basically you're saying you were afraid to get misfaded because your tracker comment seemed informed. If that's true then why am I so suspicious for thinking it was a scum slip?

[Black]

Black I don't know why you think a meowmeow/dannflor team would have meowmeow hard bus me D1 to E-1 and me hard town read her all the while

also this? i think me and dannflor are pretty blatantly not teamed

I'm going to look at this later because I admit I'm not sure how likely the pairing is based on posts but I wouldn't mind hearing in your own words why you think it's so blatant

[Black]

obviously i don't like black's handling of this whole situation

What is my motive here if I'm scum? This is probably wifom but wouldn't it make more sense for me to push a Dann/Freedom solve? I already thought it could be them earlier and Freedom is clearly less likely to put up a fight here. I feel like I would just be making things harder for myself if I were scum

[Black]

Oh hi Dann. Can't sleep? Or is this a time zone diff

[Black]

Ah you're a West coast boy. It's 4:31 here and I just woke up from a nightmare. I watched The Thing last night XD

I'm on mobile in bed though so not quite prime condition to solve the game

[Black]

Why have you been so confident in your meow read? I feel like Ausuka is probably a good enough scum player where you should probably have more doubts than you have displayed this game

[Black]

dannflor was pretty widely townread when i replaced in and then i started deathtunneling him on d1 and then he decided to hard townread me for it

it would certainly be a ... creative, way to play scum. i think we would be much better off just like ... letting dannflor cook, because he's a good scum player, and in this scenario i would be eating up all his oxygen

even if we decided we needed to bus d1 in a setup where there's a 2/3 chance a tracker or jailkeeper exists, i think i would've asked dannflor to get into it with me a bit more because people instinctively townread actual fights

just in general i don't feel like the two of us being a scumteam makes much, if any, sense

I guess I can understand the bussing point but I don't see why it means you are blatantly not paired. I think you could have planned to play creatively in order to do exactly what you are both doing now which is saying your pairing makes no sense. My issue here and with most situations in Mafia is that I'm not sure the liklihood of this, and hearing you say it's pretty low doesn't help me

[Black]

hold on in a tracker and doctor setup there’s only a goon no rolecop

scum would’ve killed black since everyone including me townread them and since both me and aureal are town it would’ve been perfect

I like this thought but I don't think I was the clear choice for the NK there. If Dann is scum then he already suspected I was a VT in 216, 286, 292, and 300. I guess Dann doesn't necessarily have to be scum for scum to have picked up on this but I think it was weird how Dann kept stressing that I had claimed when I hadn't. It felt like he was continuously prodding that in order to get me to reveal more

In a Dann/meow solve, they would have to cast some doubt on me here which is exactly what meow did. But then why would Dann not go along with her? It doesn't make sense for him to be considering a town!Black world this much if he's paired with meow when they could both just push me here ftw. Meh

[Black]

i mean... you were the one who asked why i thought that? is there any possible answer to that which can't be countered with "ok but what if you just WANTED things to look that way"

I was just saying that I thought hearing it in your own words would help me, but it didn't

[Black]

I think Freedom might fit with meow or Dann now that I'm thinking about it

[Black]

Why have you been so confident in your meow read? I feel like Ausuka is probably a good enough scum player where you should probably have more doubts than you have displayed this game

if you think i'm a good scum player - i'm not sure i've ever played scum against you - why are you so convinced i scum slipped with literally zero pressure to do so?

I'm not convinced?

i mean i agree with dann that you vt claimed by saying you were ok with dying tbh

I think it's crazy to assume a naturally emotional player is claiming VT there, but ok

[Black]

You act like every single player here just makes the correct play in the heat of the moment

[Black]

I don't think of the game that way. I know I should, but I just don't

[Black]

What you are saying makes sense though, I'm just surprised you assume all players make the best psychological decision in emotional moments

[Black]

the emotional play there is to claim pr and dunk the people pushing you

i just cannot fathom any thought process that leads anyone to say they're ok with being hammered as pr idk

Fine. I don't really want to argue about this anymore

[Black]

To assume snivy and I are scum you would have to assume we hard defended each other pretty much the entire game

[Black]

I'm starting to think Dann/meow is less likely than Freedom/meow or Freedom/Dann

I still think snivy is town

[Black]

But i don’t think that decision would have crossed your mind if you had a PR role pm

ok

[Black]

I don't have many specifics other than I don't think he has an agenda and I can't really see him being paired with my other suspects. The only agenda ping I've gotten was a few posts ago when he tried to subtly cast doubt on me, but even then I can see town!snivy having that thought

[Black]

I don't think scum!Dann decides to trust me here

[Black]

Well unless he thought Freedom was an easier misfade, which is definitely possible

[Black]

I would really like to hear Freedom give a bunch of thoughts on the game tbh

[Black]

I don't think I'll be ready to vote until Freedom says something. I'm not sure what he could say at this point though. His ISO just feels like an extension of iavh's with an Abnegation scumread thrown in that looks really agenda-y

[Black]

because thats not his scumgame

I don't think happy has ever rolled scum here so how do you know this?

[Black]

as in theres no one here especially that could be a pair with you after aureal died

speaking of which, what do you think her results were?

Why can't it be me/Dann from ypov?

[Black]

Snivy do you plan on answering 1339