Mini Theme 2312| Blood on the Clocktower: Sects & Violets | Village are Doomed!

[atsi]

I did a BOTC quiz about a month ago, I'm not sure what Enchant's ruling is for this game but in general the answer is no, if a poisoned/drunk player gets correct info that doesn't count for mathematician.

Yeah, that's how I understand it also. But I'd still like confirmation from the mod just to make sure.

[Enchant]

@Mod I have some mechanics questions:

1. If an ability isn't working due to poison/drunkness, but they receive true information anyway, would this still count as their ability working abnormally?
   
2. Is the Juggler allowed to change their guesses during the day?

1. I need context to answer this one.
2. Yes.

Example: A Juggler is poisoned from being next to a No Dashii, and makes one correct guess on the first day. At night they are told "1". Would this still count as abnormal for Mathematician?

Abilities of poisoned role which somehow yeild true info don't count as abnormal for Mathematician.

[Vanderscamp]

I guess things don't really add up if Vanderscamp is No Dashii. If both PiggyGal and Random Nurse are poisoned, I would have gotten a 2 unless Random Nurse got true info despite being poisoned. And if AniX is town and got poisoned that means Random Nurse also got poisoned or drunk somehow?

Artist is a day ability and would never show up for a mathematician.

I think the only way I'm no dachi is if Anix is minion and Random got true information about Anix despite being poisoned, which is possible but I'd argue very unlikely

[Vanderscamp]

I guess things don't really add up if Vanderscamp is No Dashii. If both PiggyGal and Random Nurse are poisoned, I would have gotten a 2 unless Random Nurse got true info despite being poisoned. And if AniX is town and got poisoned that means Random Nurse also got poisoned or drunk somehow?

Artist is a day ability and would never show up for a mathematician.

I think the only way I'm no dachi is if Anix is minion and Random got true information about Anix despite being poisoned, which is possible but I'd argue very unlikely

Wait, this doesn't work either because in this world Piggy's info would actually also be correct because the only correct role pick would be that Random is the artist, meaning that 1 is a true result, which doesn't work because you would be good and got a result of 1 N1, and in this world your result should be 0.

And Anix always has to be the minion in that world because infinity would be oracle with a 1, so Anix being good doesn't work.

[atsi]

I guess things don't really add up if Vanderscamp is No Dashii. If both PiggyGal and Random Nurse are poisoned, I would have gotten a 2 unless Random Nurse got true info despite being poisoned. And if AniX is town and got poisoned that means Random Nurse also got poisoned or drunk somehow?

Artist is a day ability and would never show up for a mathematician.

I think the only way I'm no dachi is if Anix is minion and Random got true information about Anix despite being poisoned, which is possible but I'd argue very unlikely

https://wiki.bloodontheclocktower.com/Mathematician

Here it says since dawn, so if an ability worked abnormally D1 it would affect the count I get on N2.

[Vanderscamp]

Oh, you're right, whoops.
I don't think that changes anything though

[Random Nurse]

Something in my gut tells me my Artist ability on Anix was correct.

It feels like was just, like, barely any reaction from Anix in response to my result.

Perhaps I am biased, but wouldn't a Town/Outsider fight back like Hell against a false/manipulated claim?

This game is all sorts of confusions, the dead are talking, and I still have NO flips so NO actual information.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: infinity

Anyone object to this?

This is a kill that needs to happen for us to win the game, and on top of infinity being evil, then dying will give relevant mathematician info for number of players getting incorrect results each night and help confirm the dichotomy.

[Vanderscamp]

Something in my gut tells me my Artist ability on Anix was correct.

It feels like was just, like, barely any reaction from Anix in response to my result.

Perhaps I am biased, but wouldn't a Town/Outsider fight back like Hell against a false/manipulated claim?

This game is all sorts of confusions, the dead are talking, and I still have NO flips so NO actual information.

You are biased, you've been tunneled on your info being correct all game.
I think I can literally mechanically clear Anix for you, so please actually read my next post and tell me if you have problems with my logic.

[Enchant]

Votecount

Vanderscamp nominated Infinity 324.

Official Vote Count 2.04

With 6 players alive, it takes 4 votes or more to Execute player.

Vanderscamp (2): Random Nurse, Infinity 324

Infinity 324 (1): Vanderscamp

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-09-30 17:21:54).

Mod notes:

A

[Vanderscamp]

From my POV, Anix is confirmed good.

I know this because I'm the good twin and I know infinity is the evil twin.
So for Anix to be evil, they have to be the demon specifically, because the minion is already accounted for, but this is not possible because there was a kill last night.



So if Anix is evil, I'm also evil, everyone else is confirmed good, and I would have to be the demon.

If I'm the demon, I have to be no dashi or vortox based on atsi's mathematician info because no one has claimed a power that drunks people (according to what atsi has said about hu tao) and fang gu and vigormortis don't have the ability to poison people. Vigormortis does, but I obviously didn't kill my minion last night so this is impossible.


Vortox can be ruled out because multiple townsfolk (all townsfolk?) are getting correct information about the evil team.


So I would have to be specifically no dashi, but this doesn't work from the mathematician info either based on my previous post.

[Vanderscamp]

Actually there might be some window where I can be no dachi depending on what hu Tao is that might still work with the mathematician info, if hu Tao was literally the only player who received incorrect information last night.
So I think technically with current claims this can't be ruled out.

But this world also involves both of my townsfolk neighbors getting correct info despite being poisoned, which particularly in your (Random) case would be a very strange mod decision.

[atsi]

Yeah, I guess you can't actually be No Dachii then since Both PiggyGal Juggler info and Random Nurse Artist info are true in that case. I can't really think of a way that Hu Tao could get drunk/poisoned if you're the No Dachii.

[atsi]

I'd still like to hear from Infinity before voting. Maybe there's a flaw somewhere in our logic.

[atsi]

Vanderscamp do you think there's a point in Hu Tao claiming now vs tomorrow? If not, I guess it's best to give scum as little info as possible.

[AniX]

Something in my gut tells me my Artist ability on Anix was correct.

It feels like was just, like, barely any reaction from Anix in response to my result.

Perhaps I am biased, but wouldn't a Town/Outsider fight back like Hell against a false/manipulated claim?

This game is all sorts of confusions, the dead are talking, and I still have NO flips so NO actual information.

Like I've said like...5 times now, confirming Vortox is THE most important town mission so why would I react when your goals and mine were aligned. You wanted me dead because you believed I was evil. I wanted me dead because it was the fastest way to confirm Vortox.

It is frustrating to read your messages because you were told by multiple people multiple times what Vortox does and you argued with everyone that you weren't lying, even though nobody was accusing you of lying. You got aggressive about it even! And I still think you don't really understand how this game differs from regular Mafia (you admit to being confused) and instead of going "I need to take a step back and reassess, maybe re-read the rules", you are going "Actually I don't need to know anything, I'm just going to trust my gut"

[AniX]

I do want to clarify something, because it tricked me for a second before I remembered: Normally, you never need to wonder if a dead player is the Demon because if the Demon is dead, town has won. Town never doesn't need to normally kill the Minion to win because the town win condition is "You win when the Demon is dead".

We only are in a situation where Demon can be dead and town still can not have won, which is because town can't win with Evil Twin still alive.

[Infinity 324]

if there does have to be a vortox, that means anix is town then right? i don't see why that's not the world we live in

i do think I have to be limmed today cause of Occam's razor, which is a bit frustrating because there's no way to know for sure that vander is lying, but I don't see what else we can do

[Infinity 324]

@random nurse I'm pretty sure barring extreme circumstances anix has to be town

[Random Nurse]

Has everyone claimed this far?

[Infinity 324]

hu tao still hasn't claimed

[Random Nurse]

if there does have to be a vortox, that means anix is town then right? i don't see why that's not the world we live in

i do think I have to be limmed today cause of Occam's razor, which is a bit frustrating because there's no way to know for sure that vander is lying, but I don't see what else we can do

@random nurse I'm pretty sure barring extreme circumstances anix has to be town

That I don't know.

Is it not possible he could be the Minion and lying?

[atsi]

That I don't know.

Is it not possible he could be the Minion and lying?

Please tell us how

[Infinity 324]

see 391

[Random Nurse]

I'm going to take a break from this game for a little bit. Getting a headache again.