Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)

[implosion]

I think this is town ari much more often than not. I have horribly misread her in the past but I think the fervency/exact way in which she's arguing to not be on the coalition is really high-risk for scum, because she's essentially advocating to not be in the coalition and also is sort of acting like she's fine with a coalition she doesn't have much control over. It could theoretically make sense if she's scum with like, hero or datisi maybe.

I don't really understand where Datisi-town is coming from in popular opinion; merlyn's reason seems kind of flat and 99% is uh, kind of a whoa there amount of confidence to have in a d1 townread on a very renowned scum player, to the point where it gives me some pause on hero. I don't know if I agree exactly with Ari's concern about hero's confidence but I do want to look more closely at hero's early stuff that I and others were townreading. Most of datisi's posts feel inscrutable to me in terms of his alignment.

[implosion]

Ari, you said in the other two games you played you didn't want to be in the coalition but wound up in it anyway - why was that? Did they have an arc of what's happening here -> people started townreading you for how you were acting around the coalition (or other stuff) -> people asked you to be in it?

[Hero at Heart]

explain your 99% datisi is town read

um

at first it was pure gut, like i felt his first post just couldn't come from scum. in retrospect i think there's literally zero reason to think that since it's a pretty easy post to fake but whatever.

anyway, the point is that as the game continued i didn't really anything to make me sus datisi at any point? like it might be just confbias, but i saw a lot of things i liked in his posts and nothing much that i didn't like. you know that when someone is town, they just can't help but towntell sometimes? like what merlyn claimed to have done, except with datisi he HAS been actually towntelling all game. i can't point you to a specific post because every post he makes is a towntell?

i hope this doesn't sound pockety as fuck lol
if this were trust fall i'd 100% trust datisi though like 7 pages ago.

pedit: uhhh i may or may not have no experience with scumtisi so please forgive me if my confidence on him is too high

i only know town!datisi

[Hero at Heart]

ok now my confidence is completely shattered

i'll go read up on scum datisi

[Aristeia]

Ari, you said in the other two games you played you didn't want to be in the coalition but wound up in it anyway - why was that? Did they have an arc of what's happening here -> people started townreading you for how you were acting around the coalition (or other stuff) -> people asked you to be in it?

both times the principal reason was because a scum player who was pretty townread decided to drag me in the losing coalition with them. They didn't explain why they did it - I imagine because they figured it would be easy to mis-elim me afterwards

[implosion]

you know that when someone is town, they just can't help but towntell sometimes? like what merlyn claimed to have done, except with datisi he HAS been actually towntelling all game. i can't point you to a specific post because every post he makes is a towntell?

this is actually entirely fair of a take if you haven't played with datisi much, I think i probably used to feel this way about his play

[Aristeia]

explain your 99% datisi is town read

um

at first it was pure gut, like i felt his first post just couldn't come from scum. in retrospect i think there's literally zero reason to think that since it's a pretty easy post to fake but whatever.

anyway, the point is that as the game continued i didn't really anything to make me sus datisi at any point? like it might be just confbias, but i saw a lot of things i liked in his posts and nothing much that i didn't like. you know that when someone is town, they just can't help but towntell sometimes? like what merlyn claimed to have done, except with datisi he HAS been actually towntelling all game. i can't point you to a specific post because every post he makes is a towntell?

i hope this doesn't sound pockety as fuck lol
if this were trust fall i'd 100% trust datisi though like 7 pages ago.

pedit: uhhh i may or may not have no experience with scumtisi so please forgive me if my confidence on him is too high

i only know town!datisi

I'm sorry your 99% datisi is town read sounds extremely fake to me and considering i know who you are it just makes me suspect you even more

[implosion]

i looked a bit at hero's early game iso again and i'm a little too tired to feel like i'm really piercing the veil. It does feel somewhat town still but I don't think it's like ironclad, I probably still want hero in coalition and I do like 327/328

[implosion]

I'm sorry your 99% datisi is town read sounds extremely fake to me and considering i know who you are it just makes me suspect you even more

I think there's a decent explanation here in a hero-town world where the 99% is kind of fake because hero did say they were trying to turn off their tryhard brain to make that post. like i mentioned earlier at one point the veil of alt-ness is annoying, especially since it's going to change how they're playing even if you know who they are

[Aristeia]

at first it was pure gut, like i felt his first post just couldn't come from scum. in retrospect i think there's literally zero reason to think that since it's a pretty easy post to fake but whatever.

hello can i be in the coalition please please please :3

HEAL: datisi

^ how is it that this post can't come from scum? do scum not want to be in the coalition?

[implosion]

I called merlyn's reason for townreading Datisi flat but I don't mean for that to imply that I think it's scummy on Merlyn's end. I think it's a reasonable response for merlyn-town to have to Datisi's push

[Hero at Heart]

explain your 99% datisi is town read

um

at first it was pure gut, like i felt his first post just couldn't come from scum. in retrospect i think there's literally zero reason to think that since it's a pretty easy post to fake but whatever.

anyway, the point is that as the game continued i didn't really anything to make me sus datisi at any point? like it might be just confbias, but i saw a lot of things i liked in his posts and nothing much that i didn't like. you know that when someone is town, they just can't help but towntell sometimes? like what merlyn claimed to have done, except with datisi he HAS been actually towntelling all game. i can't point you to a specific post because every post he makes is a towntell?

i hope this doesn't sound pockety as fuck lol
if this were trust fall i'd 100% trust datisi though like 7 pages ago.

pedit: uhhh i may or may not have no experience with scumtisi so please forgive me if my confidence on him is too high

i only know town!datisi

I'm sorry your 99% datisi is town read sounds extremely fake to me and considering i know who you are it just makes me suspect you even more

wut

if you truly know who i am you should like think it makes perfect sense for me to tr datisi and also think it makes perfect sense for me to have sr'd you earlier

i don't think you know who i am

[Aristeia]

you have no familiarity with Datisi's scum game but you're willing to lock him in as 99% town that just sounds ridiculous to me

[Aristeia]

and your reasoning is because he asked to be in the coalition in his first post and you don't think that comes from scum

like !?!?!??!

[Aristeia]

and instead of naming a single post that stood out to you, you claim every post he makes is a towntell

which is just more non answering

[Aristeia]

if you truly know who i am you should like think it makes perfect sense for me to tr datisi and also think it makes perfect sense for me to have sr'd you earlier

sure explain how it makes perfect sense then

[Hero at Heart]

ok i will but later because i am actually tilted right now

sry about that

[Aristeia]

if your reasoning is something like because Ari was mafia and Datisi was town in that game we played together then like I have no words

[Hero at Heart]

and i can also give you 10 posts of datisi i thought were townie if you'd like

[Aristeia]

ok i will but later because i am actually tilted right now

sry about that

sorry about tilting you, I know I am quite insufferable sometimes.

[Aristeia]

and i can also give you 10 posts of datisi i thought were townie if you'd like

I just want one reason that makes sense I don't need 10 posts

[Hero at Heart]

ok i will but later because i am actually tilted right now

sry about that

sorry about tilting you, I know I am quite insufferable sometimes.

lol you are not, you are pretty awesome

though i guess you do know how to bite, hehe

anyhow I've calmed down so let me explain my thought process. i also think i've figured out

your

thought process so i'll explain that afterwards and you tell me if i was right.

but basically there's a game we played some time ago - i think you know which one i'm talking about. and datisi was town and you were scum in that game.
and i felt that datisi's entrance massively pinged me as having the exact same vibes as in that game. now ya'll claim that datisi is a scum master so maybe he faked it, but i have little to no experience with scum datisi so to me it looked genuine.
as i said there are other reasons i think/thought/whatever that datisi is town but they are not related to meta so they go in a different post to this, since this one is about meta.
well anyway, in that game you were scum and you were doing very similar things like hedging about datisi and saying you don't really townread him but you don't want to believe he's scum, and i don't think you ever voted him. so to me your approach to datisi this game (wanting to put him in the coalition despite not having a tr on him) felt similar to me which was part of my sr on you. i didn't say that because i didn't want to expose my identity.
and i also thought that you and datisi are very good at finding each other as town because of friends and enemies (and because of a comment you made once which wasn't about you and datisi but i think applies anyway) so it did seem weird to me that you did not find each other as town, and because i was tring datisi then i went ahead and assumed that you are the scum out of both of you.

[Hero at Heart]

ok so now for explaining my tr on datisi:

his 24 felt like he was trying to work the game out of rvs, i liked 2/3 of the reads there (his tr on me and his sr on THS) very much, and i didn't think his read on merlyn (which i thought was meh-ish but sheeped anyway) was ai for him. i also felt his "i didn't want to type out my reads" sounded townie.
then later he engaged aristeia about her read on kittens, and at the time it felt townie to me that he was simultaneously disagreeing with her but also townreading her. his comment about doubting his tr of ari both sounded like an uninformed townie on its own, but also sounded distinctly like his town game that i've already referred to.

is this a reasonable explanation aristeia or do you still think it's fake?

btw i typed all of this without ever looking at previous pages so there's a large chance there are more townie things he did that i forgot about.

[Hero at Heart]

now for my theory on aristeia's thought process:

basically i think that what happened with regard to you thinking that my tr if datisi is fake based on my identity is that you thought "well datisi was townread that game since he wasn't being super townie by the book, so since in this game he is being extra townie then you should think that's scum indicative for him, because in that other game where he was town he wasn't being so townie"

which is maybe a reasonable assumption to make if you thought i am a good player, which i don't think i am, so i don't make these level 1000 extrapolations that someone is scum because of their townie vibes being too strong.

if this is not what you thought then pls explain.

[Hero at Heart]

if your reasoning is something like because Ari was mafia and Datisi was town in that game we played together then like I have no words

i missed that

it's not because you were mafia and he was town, it's because you were mafia and he was town and you are acting more or less the same.

anyway i guess you can go on having no words lol