Open 885: Backup6 [Game Over]

[Dannflor]

regarding iavh I guess I think it's kind of weird that iavh would admit to seeing the T3 crumb because that feels like a very scum indicative thing to admit to

[Dannflor]

we are all deepwolves on this blessed day

[meowmeow]

i think if you're scum townreading me, it doesn't seem super likely to me that it's a pocketing tactic? idk maybe it's just me. i don't really think i'm the kind of player that scum need to go out of their way to pocket, especially since i'm always going to be a difficult target for you specifically. if that's the world we're in it seems more likely you'd just be like - oh, if i was town i would townread meow, so that's what i'm doing

[meowmeow]

maybe that's projecting my image of 'generic mafia player' onto 'mafiascum user dannflor' a bit too much shrug, you do tend to be more strategic about everything

[Dannflor]

has alianna never rolled scum before

[meowmeow]

i forgot that's a public alt x.x

she has and she like completely stomped that game. i found it while i was playing w/ her in bianco's game

[Dannflor]

I can't find it help pls

[meowmeow]

i forgot what it's called, but if i found it once i should be able to do it again

[camelCasedSnivy]

I was about to post that a snivy red flip probably spews iavh town

and blue flip spews iavh town so good conclusion we have achieved here

[Dannflor]

if you're like around / have time / want to

can you go into specifics on why you town read black so much

[camelCasedSnivy]

i townbinned both aureal and black day 1 due to the start mainly just black and generics whole fiasco

there's better targets i suppose?

[Dannflor]

I was about to post that a snivy red flip probably spews iavh town

and blue flip spews iavh town so good conclusion we have achieved here

huh

[meowmeow]

viewtopic.php?t=90462

i think i was thinking of this

[Dannflor]

oh it was a hydra that's why I couldn't find it

[camelCasedSnivy]

i wish i could get more scumgames

I've had 3 completed scumgames, 1 was a rep in into a bus and 1 was a rep in into a free ELO game

[camelCasedSnivy]

I was about to post that a snivy red flip probably spews iavh town

and blue flip spews iavh town so good conclusion we have achieved here

huh

i just said that they're town and stopped there

[Dannflor]

I think what worries my about abnegation (aside from Generic just feeling well within his scum range and kind of LAMIST) is just how reactive and passive she is

and I mean I guess I can take the "not wanting to effort" thing at face value but I tend to think even townies who aren't specifically trying to effort inevitably have points where pro-active sorting or prodding comes out whether said townie is trying to effort or not

her play here just feels very observational and hedgey

none of it is like, spectacularly scummy or anything, but it feels safe - and it doesn't really feel like anything in this game is interesting to her. like she had a pretty wide PoE D1 but I don't really feel like I've been prodded or sorted by abnegation or that abnegation is trying to actively sort anyone else in her PoE

and I guess I just would've expected to see at least glimpses of that by now if she were town

[meowmeow]

if you're like around / have time / want to

can you go into specifics on why you town read black so much

i think black doesn't feel like scum in general but especially doesn't feel like how a skilled scum player would play

i don't want to be overly blunt here, but there's a certain archetype of player who is good at scum play and less good at town comparatively - i know black pretty well and i think me and her are similar in that regard. without wanting to give *too* much away i think some of the things i know about myself can be used to read her

for example her early game doesn't make much sense coming from scum to me. i don't think she's scum looking at 51, evaluating her options and deciding her best option is to act like she's sheeping that post. i don't understand the thought process for mafia black in - 1) omgussing geek and 2) then acting like she's sheeping aureal on that read. like, why would she do that? she can play aggressive omgus, or she can play the Reasonable Towny Person. doing this makes her look bad for like no benefit. it makes more sense coming from town who sees that post and thinks, 'yes i feel validated by this post i'm not the only one thinking this' and then voting, imo.

in general, i haven't thought about her entire iso in these terms, but i've had the sense her play didn't seem geared towards achieving a mafia wincon? like 150 feels like a good and natural push to make, and is also something which is counterintuitive for scum black to do here. similarly, her consistent townread on you just feels like a ??? move to make if she's scum, threatened by you, i'm pushing you kinda loudly, she has a history of omgus - even if she's your partner it just doesn't feel right to me that she treats your slot this way. even if she townreads you, does she have to stick out her neck for you and call you the 'towniest slot in the game'? tbh it's weird as either alignment, but i think i'm more likely to see weird town black than weird scum black.

i admit not liking your push on black miiiight have factored into my read on her at first, which is bad of me, but i do think she is just town in this game

tl;dr vibes lol

[Dannflor]

yeah that makes sense

I also had the thought recently that her pivot from hard town reading me yesterday to considering iavh/dannflor today feels pretty natural as town reevaluating the game

I mean that's not a big thing on it's own but it's not really like scum!black needs to start scum reading me again here

[meowmeow]

I think what worries my about abnegation (aside from Generic just feeling well within his scum range and kind of LAMIST) is just how reactive and passive she is

and I mean I guess I can take the "not wanting to effort" thing at face value but I tend to think even townies who aren't specifically trying to effort inevitably have points where pro-active sorting or prodding comes out whether said townie is trying to effort or not

her play here just feels very observational and hedgey

none of it is like, spectacularly scummy or anything, but it feels safe - and it doesn't really feel like anything in this game is interesting to her. like she had a pretty wide PoE D1 but I don't really feel like I've been prodded or sorted by abnegation or that abnegation is trying to actively sort anyone else in her PoE

and I guess I just would've expected to see at least glimpses of that by now if she were town

i mean it's not like you're wrong about this

but like, abnegation is at least able to play scum well and in this case i just didn't feel like the passiveness was especially scum-passiveness, just like 'i signed up for this game on the alt and i can't be bothered to log into it all the time so i'm just kind of here' passiveness

maybe it's bad for me to use meta when i don't actually know the alianna meta very well >.>

[Aureal]

i think snivy's read on happy is, like, pretty anti associative? like the feeling i get from it is mostly just 'oh hey snivy is scum and knows happy is town' - idk if that's tunneled but it is what it is. if snivy is scum, it's definitely not an intuitive move to go to bat for happy for like no reason

Intuitive or not, he did do it as 3p scum in Weird Dreams.

maybe i should think happy is town if i don't think he's scum with dannflor or snivy. shrug.

Thought experiment I've been mulling over: if happy is town, that means both Mafia were on the Dunnstral elimination. Why would they both get on that?

[meowmeow]

i think snivy's read on happy is, like, pretty anti associative? like the feeling i get from it is mostly just 'oh hey snivy is scum and knows happy is town' - idk if that's tunneled but it is what it is. if snivy is scum, it's definitely not an intuitive move to go to bat for happy for like no reason

Intuitive or not, he did do it as 3p scum in Weird Dreams.

reading that game, i really don't think he did? he was shading the ircher slot for most of the game, and townread it at one point before immediately going back on it. like, i don't think these situations are even remotely comparable

[camelCasedSnivy]

i think snivy's read on happy is, like, pretty anti associative? like the feeling i get from it is mostly just 'oh hey snivy is scum and knows happy is town' - idk if that's tunneled but it is what it is. if snivy is scum, it's definitely not an intuitive move to go to bat for happy for like no reason

Intuitive or not, he did do it as 3p scum in Weird Dreams.

reading that game, i really don't think he did? he was shading the ircher slot for most of the game, and townread it at one point before immediately going back on it. like, i don't think these situations are even remotely comparable

if it helps: i culted ircher night 2

[Aureal]

...Ircher? He was in that game, I guess. I was thinking of his defense of WhemeStar. Although looking back at his ISO now, it's not as defense-like as I remembered. He certainly was awkward though.

[camelCasedSnivy]

...Ircher? He was in that game, I guess. I was thinking of his defense of WhemeStar. Although looking back at his ISO now, it's not as defense-like as I remembered. He certainly was awkward though.

wheme was obvtown that game I'm gonna be honest but i couldn't defend him too much