Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)

[Merlyn]

what's a bop shot?

[Aristeia]

its when you kill the person who make it if they're wrong

[Aristeia]

like we have 2 lims left

so if everyone wantz to let me bop, then just let me make decision on who to lim and if im wrong then kill me tommorrow

[Aristeia]

there is also reverse bop which is you kill me first and then kill the person i wanted to kill tommorrow.

[Merlyn]

You know what, I'd be in. I'm out of ideas on how to figure this out

[Merlyn]

Actually, you know what? Implo, would you be willing to do a bop or reverse bop?

[implosion]

i feel like this is a weird suggestion to make (from ari) right after i talked about my strong townread on her and why i'm not sure why she'd shoot drew. Like, wouldn't you rather just... not be limmed and try to make people listen to you?

Actually, you know what? Implo, would you be willing to do a bop or reverse bop?

I literally just said I don't feel good about who's scum right now so no, I'm not really interested in taking a 1/4 shot at winning when we can get a strictly better EV shot by playing normally. The only reason to do a "BoP shot" is if we're convinced someone is scum and we trust their judgment very strongly in the case that they're town. I don't trust my judgment in this game to that extent, and if you think I'm scum, I'd much rather just be limmed normally today than declare who I demand will be limmed tomorrow first, because that means we get 0 information from the nightkill. And evidently whoever is scum is making weird nightkills.

Of course I'd rather just not be limmed at all, and then maybe not eat a nightkill again for whatever reason. Are you thinking that I'm scum, Merlyn? If not, why do you want me to do a bop or reverse bop?

[Aristeia]

I just want to win the game

I don't even know who I would choose if I got to bop but I'd be more motivated if I knew I got to kill someone rather than like be ignored

[Aristeia]

there is nothing in the world that frustrates me more than spending effort on something and not getting to actually follow through

I would rather just not try at all or roll a dice and vote.

so like if all four of you "don't know" then let me try and win the game for all of us

[Aristeia]

I guess it's hard for me to collaborate with people and that's a personal failing of mine I am more than happy to actually discuss scumreads/townreads with you all if you actually have suspects you want to talk about

[Aristeia]

I am trying to let go of my desire to control whether we win this game or not but it's just really not easy for me and I'm sorry about that

[implosion]

I'm very much interested in listening to what you have to say given that Titus flipped town. I'm not especially interested in giving you absolute power and I'm not especially interested in planning to guaranteedly crucify you tomorrow if you're wrong.

Regarding Hero: is the feeling that Hero would have shot you last night as scum mostly/entirely based on personality/meta? Particularly given Hero saying they wouldn't have shot you.

[implosion]

Fwiw this page also reinforces Ari as town to me

[implosion]

Also FYI: I'm variously traveling for the next ~10 days, should still be around a similar amount but might have some days where I just forget to

[Merlyn]

i feel like this is a weird suggestion to make (from ari) right after i talked about my strong townread on her and why i'm not sure why she'd shoot drew. Like, wouldn't you rather just... not be limmed and try to make people listen to you?

Actually, you know what? Implo, would you be willing to do a bop or reverse bop?

I literally just said I don't feel good about who's scum right now so no, I'm not really interested in taking a 1/4 shot at winning when we can get a strictly better EV shot by playing normally. The only reason to do a "BoP shot" is if we're convinced someone is scum and we trust their judgment very strongly in the case that they're town. I don't trust my judgment in this game to that extent, and if you think I'm scum, I'd much rather just be limmed normally today than declare who I demand will be limmed tomorrow first, because that means we get 0 information from the nightkill. And evidently whoever is scum is making weird nightkills.

Of course I'd rather just not be limmed at all, and then maybe not eat a nightkill again for whatever reason. Are you thinking that I'm scum, Merlyn? If not, why do you want me to do a bop or reverse bop?

I'm trying to reevaluate everyone. I mostly wanted to see what you'd say

[Bellaphant]

I don't think Ari not being shot clears Ari or hero, neither would play that basic?

My current thoughts are:
Ari still/could/ be scum. Her and mer I have found really hard to straight town bin all game
Mer: see above
Implo: playing a fantastic scum game??
Hero:see above, but with more 'obvious' mistakes

[Hero at Heart]

I guess it's hard for me to collaborate with people and that's a personal failing of mine I am more than happy to actually discuss scumreads/townreads with you all if you actually have suspects you want to talk about

i actually do want to discuss townreads/scumreads

i feel the attitude here has been really anti-town and i don't like it

i kinda get this awful feeling from everyone saying "i don't know who it is" in the sense that if this wasn't an open setup, i would think there are 2 living scum right now, or something crazy like that.

i know, this sounds exactly like saying "i don't know who it is". but it's not because i do actually have reads

so i feel this is pretty much basic wifom. killing outside the coalition points to the maf being inside the coalition. you could argue then that it's merlyn who's wifoming us, but i'm actually willing to bet that merlyn gets nightkilled today (and me saying this won't jinx it because if merlyn lives i probably won't vote her in elo anyway, so scum should shoot her tonight either way). and i know it's fucked up because i was sort of pushing merlyn earlier, but honestly i just feel like she's not making any effort to be townread and this is a towny behavior i guess. i would make

some

effort to be townread if i were scum.

now onto ari - i said i am playing without emotions now, which is true, but i just can't bring myself to vote ari. of she scum, i will find that out on day 4.

implo - mechanically, it makes a lot of sense that he's scum. but his play just feels very town. though now looking at it through the "holy shit datisi was scum" lens, i could also see it being scum. hmmmm...

actually the more i look at it through this lens, the more i feel like implo's iso is constructed of a lot of diplomatic posts that are meant to appease and gain favor with everyone. ugh. let me go read his interaction with the std slot.

[Hero at Heart]

nah idk actually

implo do you have completed scum games to link?

[Hero at Heart]

also with bella, my tr on her was based on assuming she was in her town meta, but i realize now that there's something slightly off and this might be an imitation of her town meta than her real town meta

so i think i want today to lim between bella and implo.

[Merlyn]

I am pretty much ruling Ari out as scum and hopefully that won't be a big mistake. What if we'd taken her up on the reverse BoP idea?

I could get behind an implo lim. It's so weird he's alive. He didn't want to do the BoP idea. Drew was scumreading him.

[Merlyn]

Uggghhh I dunno I guess I need to read the vote sequence on STD again. Couldn't he have gotten off the wagon at some point?

[Bellaphant]

also with bella, my tr on her was based on assuming she was in her town meta, but i realize now that there's something slightly off and this might be an imitation of her town meta than her real town meta

so i think i want today to lim between bella and implo.

Do you wanna talk to me about this? I feel my scum game has been better recently, but it's actually because I fake aggression better, which gets tr more easily.

[Hero at Heart]

he could but there was no counterwagon except him

by staying on std he got some sweet distancing going

[Bellaphant]

Why would scum kill mer? I feel like that was a more useful kill when they killed ths, not now

[Hero at Heart]

Do you wanna talk to me about this? I feel my scum game has been better recently, but it's actually because I fake aggression better, which gets tr more easily.

sure, i just feel normally in your town game you have these reads that make sense and are easy to follow, and they are quite consistent, but here's you have been slightly more flip-floppy and your reads haven't been all that easy for me to follow, if i'm being honest.