In post 327, The Bulge wrote:
146 strikes me as an attempt at thread control, like they don't want discussion to stray away from mass-claim adjacency.
attempt at thread control? I barely even bother to post more than one time a day in this thread where the fuck are you getting thread control vibes
narrative control is probably more accurate. shutting down d1 scum strat speculation rubs me the wrong way, esp when you only seem interested in discussing claims. what's the point of assuming there are 3 scum guns and then not going any further with that speculation? it's all noise.
to reduce noise in the thread
to what end?? you haven't shown any interest in sorting alignments
you think pushing enchant for lying about his pick is not sorting alignments?
also you feel very different from that time we played where you tunneled datisi town d1 in a hilariously bad way because despite being totally wrong you at least had a decent argument for why he was mafia and you sounded like you believed it.
here you're just taking shitty potshots that are kind of ridiculous
In post 359, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I’d rather vote out Celeb first
I don’t think you deflecting is a sure scumtell, I just think you’re approaching this interaction in bad faith
that's fair I have very little patience for bullshit
In post 345, The Bulge wrote:
10 roses is a far more controlled environment than if the gun/rose spread were more even. we should be taking advantage of that control by using the information we have in a careful deliberate manner.
pedit - do you disagree or are you being obtuse?
like what the fuck does this first sentence even mean
so if theres 3 scum guns and whemestar is town - then the mafia already know the entire setup.
massclaiming only helps the town catch up in its understanding of the game state.
the reason I wanted to massclaim is because if theres only one claimed gun and its whemestar, I'd want to push Enchant because in my mind there's no way enchant is town and decides to pick rose over gun.
it is a way of scumhunting that is better than a no information vacuum because the players more likely to pick gun as town are then more likely to be mafia because according to the massclaim they didn't pick gun.
These are very clear and obvious benefits to me for massclaiming and pretty obviously what I am going for.
the mafia already know how many town guns/roses there are. They are operating on a higher information state than us and know how to play out this game state.
massclaiming just evens the stage and allows us to operate with more information.
this is what i mean when I say explain thought process about mass claim and benefits.
now bulge just fucking says shit like "mass claim has no benefit"
and that's just ??? to me because it obviously does have benefits but he's going to just pretend there aren't any and write wordvomit like "10 roses is a far more controlled environment than if the gun/rose spread were more even. we should be taking advantage of that control by using the information we have in a careful deliberate manner."
like at no point did bulge actually try to understand my strategy or why I would be trying to follow it as town.
instead he's just saying things like
"massclaim is bad"
"ari wants massclaim so shes bad"
"hurr durr fishing meme gif"
"ari wants thread control"
its asnine
and you claim I'm the one treating him in bad faith?
like no I tried to understand wtf he was talking about and his response is to just state the same things back to me again without any underlying thought process.
In post 223, Celebloki wrote:
Personally I still think we forget about an Enchant or Wheme wagon until D2 and instead anyone pushing for an Enchant or Wheme wagon are good fodder for a wagon.
VOTE: SirCakez
I still feel like this is trash logic VOTE: Celebloki
VOTE: Cakez
wtf? Do you think I’m chainsawing Cakez, why us your vote a response to me voting Celeb?
I agree with the logic you feel is trash. I don't know about you yet but being oppositional to a bad take and sheeping a good one helps me read you.
I guess the main point I’d like reconciled is what Celeb really means by “pushing”, because I think the initial pushers are not acceptable targets but people who are just riding along might be worth looking into. And Cakez feels like the latter on ISO so I don’t think that’s actually a bad vote, but again, I need Celeb to clarify his intent.
<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”
town has every reason to lie about their claim in this setup
scum cannot trust anything town says
town cannot trust anything scum says
a mass claim puts scum into the advantage in this setup if town follow it truthfully
alter of rautherdir
as town won 5 games | lost 6 games | mislimd 3 times | dayvigged once | nightkilled 3 times | vengekilled once | survived 3 times
as scum won 5 games | lost 1 game | eliminated twice | dayvigged once | vigged once | survived once | perfect scum victory once
and if you count large normal 204 then i won that game after replacing out as scum
congratulations welcome to the concept that this setup is kind of interesting from a game theory standpoint
alter of rautherdir
as town won 5 games | lost 6 games | mislimd 3 times | dayvigged once | nightkilled 3 times | vengekilled once | survived 3 times
as scum won 5 games | lost 1 game | eliminated twice | dayvigged once | vigged once | survived once | perfect scum victory once
and if you count large normal 204 then i won that game after replacing out as scum
for one
a truthful massclaim by town cannot give us the information for how many town roses there are while at the same time telling scum a viable strategy for who to shoot in the short term
for another it becomes much less possible to bait scum out once a mass claim happens and that action is something this setup encourages
a mass claim is good to lockdown things but this setup has exactly two states
either you are a rose or a gun
if you are a rose who will be active in a following night you want scum to think you will not be and shoot you
the best way to accomplish this is to make them think you are a gun for a following night
conversely if you are a gun for a night later then the following night you want scum to think you are a rose for the following night
alter of rautherdir
as town won 5 games | lost 6 games | mislimd 3 times | dayvigged once | nightkilled 3 times | vengekilled once | survived 3 times
as scum won 5 games | lost 1 game | eliminated twice | dayvigged once | vigged once | survived once | perfect scum victory once
and if you count large normal 204 then i won that game after replacing out as scum
from a game theory point there are currently four states a town person can be in based on whether they are rose/gun and whether their night is night one or later
in none of these states is the town persons optimal strategy to tell the truth
alter of rautherdir
as town won 5 games | lost 6 games | mislimd 3 times | dayvigged once | nightkilled 3 times | vengekilled once | survived 3 times
as scum won 5 games | lost 1 game | eliminated twice | dayvigged once | vigged once | survived once | perfect scum victory once
and if you count large normal 204 then i won that game after replacing out as scum
if all town claim truthfully and there is only one gun claim it tells us exactly how many town roses there are.
this helps town not at all
alter of rautherdir
as town won 5 games | lost 6 games | mislimd 3 times | dayvigged once | nightkilled 3 times | vengekilled once | survived 3 times
as scum won 5 games | lost 1 game | eliminated twice | dayvigged once | vigged once | survived once | perfect scum victory once
and if you count large normal 204 then i won that game after replacing out as scum
