Open 890 - C9++ - Postgame

[Celebloki]

hi

VOTE: Celebloki

I probably deserved first vote. Hello Everyone!

[Celebloki]

hi

VOTE: Celebloki

I probably deserved first vote. Hello Everyone!

i just vote people i don't usually play with
[/quote]

That's very fair, I mentioned I probably deserved it because the last game I was in was nearly 10 years ago. I bet no one here has played with me lol.

Nice, already got a replacement, to keep wildly arbitrary votes moving along and to welcome our newcomer...

VOTE: DragonEater70

[Celebloki]

Well shoot, apparently I'm not voting correctly. It's been awhile. Was an RVS vote anyway.

[Celebloki]

UNVOTE: DragonEater70

I'll admit I always struggled with reads on Day 1, especially making the transition from what is RVS tomfoolery and scum/town vibes. I don't really see the scumminess on Kitty that everyone seems to see.

I do think there was a bit of theater between Dragon and Drew, but to what end I'm not sure.

I do get town vibes from Enchant though, at least once I finally parse what his post restricted messages mean.

[Celebloki]

Well, RC does admit that Enchant is good at reading them, and Enchant did read RC as suspicious in Enchant's emote scum-o-meter. So RC is indirectly claiming that they are at least suspicious. I am more OK with an RC wagon.

VOTE: RCEnigma

[Celebloki]

Well enchant is the best at reading me.

You said this.

1. Xegarus
2. camelCasedSnivy
3. biancospino
4. yessiree
5. RCEnigma
6. Aisa
7. Aureal
8. KittyTacky
9. Celebloki
10. Not_Mafia
11. Doctor Drew
12. Enchant
13. KatyKimFanClub

RC is 5, 5th emoji down is the thinking face

I love how this fails to disambiguate the exact two things it should be disambiguating

⬇

⬇

⬇

⬇

Based on this, Thinking face is more suspicious than smiley face.

I never said it was the most groundbreaking logic of all time. Also, how am I supposed to know you said Enchant is good at reading you is /s. I've never played with either of you, just taking what you said as truth I suppose. The logic was purely me taking as fact that apparently Enchant is good at reading you (your own apparently sarcastic words) and I interpreted their reads as they are suspicious of you. Was enough for me to at least get some discussion going. I'm not saying I'm ready to elim you right away.

[Celebloki]

I think it's pretty amazing that RC thinks he has a town read from a couple of Day 1 posts that probably weren't very serious.

I get pretty strong town reads from Aisa, Drew, and yessiree. I am also tending towards town reads from Kitty, KatyKimFanClub, and Enchant.

SNYBED doesn't seem to be doing a very good job of actually being a block. In one post Snivy admonishes DragonEater for changing his vote to leave a wagon, and then later on changes his vote shortly after DragonEater goes back on it. I'd say there's possibly more than 1 scum in the block.

[Celebloki]

I think it's pretty amazing that RC thinks he has a town read from a couple of Day 1 posts that probably weren't very serious.

I get pretty strong town reads from Aisa, Drew, and yessiree. I am also tending towards town reads from Kitty, KatyKimFanClub, and Enchant.

SNYBED doesn't seem to be doing a very good job of actually being a block. In one post Snivy admonishes DragonEater for changing his vote to leave a wagon, and then later on changes his vote shortly after DragonEater goes back on it. I'd say there's possibly more than 1 scum in the block.

yeah i changed my mind

who do you think the scum are in SNYBED?

I still have town reads on yes and Enchant. I'm honestly not sure what to think about Not_Mafia, so I couldn't rule him out from being scum. I'm having a hard time reading the final 3. I think there's at least scum between Snivy and Dragon. Null on Bianco.

[Celebloki]

I think it's pretty amazing that RC thinks he has a town read from a couple of Day 1 posts that probably weren't very serious.

I get pretty strong town reads from Aisa, Drew, and yessiree. I am also tending towards town reads from Kitty, KatyKimFanClub, and Enchant.

SNYBED doesn't seem to be doing a very good job of actually being a block. In one post Snivy admonishes DragonEater for changing his vote to leave a wagon, and then later on changes his vote shortly after DragonEater goes back on it. I'd say there's possibly more than 1 scum in the block.

Can you tell me about your Drew town read?
VOTE: Celebloki

At the time I made that post, in the Dragon vs. Drew slip exchange I just got town vibes from him. His posts since then have been pretty null and I wouldn't call my town read on him "solid" anymore, but I am still leaning that way.

[Celebloki]

I felt his responses came from a fairly calm place. If he was scum and he did indeed slip, I think the defense would have been stronger. Granted this could be different depending on his particular meta. I'll admit again I've never played with anyone here unless it was a long time ago and I have not done any meta reading into anyone here so far. I think I am going to need to start reading up on some people's other games though. Basing my reads solely on this game is not getting me very far tbh.

[Celebloki]

I am curious what the reasoning is behind the recent Drew votes are.

[Celebloki]

That's an interesting game, Kitty was town and opened that game almost exactly like he opened this game. Mentioned not knowing many people in the list, claimed Jester, talking about not playing a lot D1, talked about pairing or not pairing people. I was almost confused I was reading an ISO of him in this game.

[Celebloki]

This game has gotten weird for me. I still get town vibes from Drew and Yes, so their recent exchange to me is just...



I read a bit through Over Easy and I don't think I'm seeing that Drew here.

Also reading a bit through that game Aureal posted, I've lost my slight town read on Enchant. They're whole read on Kitty seems to be how Kitty opened this game, but Enchant replaced into scum in that other game that Kitty opened the same way as town. Plus at this point the emoji post restriction is just coming off more as trying to lay low than being a townie thing.

I think there could be scum between Snivy and Dragon. I can't parse out the back and forth between RC and Yes either, maybe Yes's conversations with people just confuse me. My admittedly flimsy excuse to wagon on RC was just a way for me to try and get myself out of RVS and I didn't believe in the kitty wagon that was happening at the time. And since I don't take much credence in Enchant's reads anymore I'll go ahead and

UNVOTE: RCEnigma

I'm going to try and do some more background reading today...

[Celebloki]

I think the biggest problem for me has been how much everyone has been talking about everyone elses meta in this game:

"I played X games with Richard_Baggs recently and he was blank and I totally read him as smurfy here"

" clever_name always does this as town"

etc.

I feel like I have to go read everyone's games now so I can understand all the meta reads lol. I feel like when I used to play meta wasn't talked about as much.

[Celebloki]

My whole day today while avoiding work has been spent finding Town and Scum games of people and trying to spot the difference in their ISOs and interactions. And I'll admit it hasn't gotten me very far yet, granted I've only read a few games so far.

[Celebloki]

I think the biggest problem for me has been how much everyone has been talking about everyone elses meta in this game:

"I played X games with Richard_Baggs recently and he was blank and I totally read him as smurfy here"

" clever_name always does this as town"

etc.

I feel like I have to go read everyone's games now so I can understand all the meta reads lol. I feel like when I used to play meta wasn't talked about as much.

Yeah, meta is all the rage these days! I can definitely see that being annoying
What about the non-meta arguments people are making? e.g. just off the top of my head I remember this post which doesn't make any meta arguments. Have you had any success getting reads from posts such as that one?

To be honest I don't think this post adds much. He corrects this post himself after re-reading Dragon. I have found Dragon to be rather fickle so far, but no one in this game seems to have any solid reads either. This was another statement I skimmed because he mentions that Dragon talks in a very surehanded way, but then others were talking earlier about how Dragon seems different this game and Dragon himself says he's trying to play different and be more confident. This became another post where I decided, "Ok, I guess I need to go read some people".

If anything after this post and doing some ISO reading I decided I didn't at least think RC was scum. Null at best. I also felt the wagon wasn't going anywhere, wasn't going to give any useful info on anyone else. I'm confused why he thinks I was getting shade for sheeping Enchant, I think people just hated my flimsy reasoning. I mainly wanted to try a counter wagon at Dragon's behest and I hate the idea of just voting with no excuse, so I hobbled one together.

[Celebloki]

well that didn't format correctly, sorry about that

[Celebloki]

I think the takeaway here is that Aureal lives rent-free in RCs head.

[Celebloki]

Yeah, meta is all the rage these days! I can definitely see that being annoying
What about the non-meta arguments people are making? e.g. just off the top of my head I remember this post which doesn't make any meta arguments. Have you had any success getting reads from posts such as that one?

To be honest I don't think this post adds much. He corrects this post himself after re-reading Dragon. I have found Dragon to be rather fickle so far, but no one in this game seems to have any solid reads either. This was another statement I skimmed because he mentions that Dragon talks in a very surehanded way, but then others were talking earlier about how Dragon seems different this game and Dragon himself says he's trying to play different and be more confident. This became another post where I decided, "Ok, I guess I need to go read some people".

If anything after this post and doing some ISO reading I decided I didn't at least think RC was scum. Null at best. I also felt the wagon wasn't going anywhere, wasn't going to give any useful info on anyone else. I'm confused why he thinks I was getting shade for sheeping Enchant, I think people just hated my flimsy reasoning. I mainly wanted to try a counter wagon at Dragon's behest and I hate the idea of just voting with no excuse, so I hobbled one together.

I am not fully sure how you got to RC not being scum? And what do you mean you wanted a counter wagon at my behest? I don't fully get your meaning here.

I wouldn't necessarily say "I don't read him as scum" as much as "I don't know how to read him". His first post seems to just be RVS junk back and forth with Aureal. I was sort of confused by the whole "Aureal slamming the policy vote seemed townie" angle he used later since I just read that post from Aureal as an opening RVS post. Like I said she seems to live in his head. What is it specifically about him that you read as scum?

Most of his posts on me I took with a grain of salt after my vote on him because I used a stupid angle to place my vote. I call it a counter wagon at your behest because I was saying I didn't want to join the kitty wagon and you offered voting RC if I went there. So I found a reason to make a post along with my vote. It seems it would have gone over better if I just said ," Sure Dragon, let's go" and voted RC lol.

[Celebloki]

As an impressionable independent state, I'm very concerned about being trampled over by SNYBED(A) in their crusade, but also concerned with guerillas from RAD hiding out in my borders. We do offer very risk-free and privacy centric banking practices if we're allowed to remain neutral.

I am starting to suspect we're just allowing scum to lurk while the town all points fingers at each other. I typically don't like to shade lurkers, but maybe the scumteam is just hiding in plain sight.

[Celebloki]

I'm in the same boat, I just haven't felt any of the ongoing wagons are on scum so I haven't wanted to join them. As I stated before, I joined the RC wagon mostly to watch others as it built, but it never built very high. That left me with assuming we just have lurking scum that are letting town flounder around and not actively trying to push a miselim themselves. I just can't decide which flavor of conspiracy I want to believe, that the wagons are being pushed on townies and the scum don't want to get dirty hands, or the wagons maybe were on scum and scumbuddies are similarly not supporting or defending them? I think the former makes more sense to me right now. I'd be a hypocrite if I attacked lurkers as being scummy though, I am not a high volume poster myself. Never have been. I do stay read up, I just have difficulty making a lot of posts.

All that said, KKFC is a true lurker and what posts he did make are very non-committal. Kitty's framing take

is

odd, all KKFC did was call him a town read. Does kitty think he's setting him up for a miselim tomorrow?

I'll go ahead and join the KKFC wagon, this is now at E-2. Hopefully he'll come in before deadline and say something.

VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

[Celebloki]

Well, I think the takeaway here is that yes is, in fact, not good at tone reading Drew.

[Celebloki]

And we'll never know what Enchant had to say outside of emojis

[Celebloki]

Yeah I feel like scum would have kept Drew alive, he was controversial. That smells like a vig kill. Enchant feels like an odd choice for scum NK too though.

[Celebloki]

If KKFC is scum they're trying to frame me I think.

I'm curious what it was KKFC said that made you think he was trying to frame you.

[Celebloki]

Reading through your spoiler of Dragon's RC posts really makes Dragon out to be a bit obsessed with RC and it all started with him not vibing with him.

Now we got Aureal living in RC's head living in Dragon's head. How deep can we go?

I think I agree with Aisa's direction on Dragon. As much as I cringe at going back to the great D1 Drew/Dragon not paired debate, maybe there was something happening there.

[Celebloki]

...
@Celebloki - the reason I might sound a bit obsessed is because I'm tired of being dissuaded from voting obvscum players and misyeeting town. It happened too often recently for my liking so I'm simply done with it. Not doing it. Sorry.

I don't mean to say this to attack, my point was mainly that in isolation and cherry picked to just the RC posts it reads like that. I found specifically Aisa's excerpts of you amusing.

I do like your responses to Aisa's post and think there has been a lot of good context added regarding your position on RC.

I think at this point as back asswards as it sounds, I'm more suspicious of those that avoided the KKFC speed

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because they didn't want dirty hands today. I'm totally not just saying that because I was on it.

Edited to remove the banned word.

- Alianna

[Celebloki]

I'm starting to change my mind a bit about Kitty, I was anti-wagon on D1 Kitty because I just didn't see why Enchant didn't like him. Most people seemed to be sheeping Enchant on Kitty. But his framing comment still makes no sense to me. Says that but still conveniently stays off the wagon.

Snivy left the KKFC wagon, but he was sort of mid argument with Drew so that kind of makes sense. But maybe he left to distance from the mis elim. I can't tell if at the time he left it was clear or not KKFC would get elimmed though.

I still can't claim I know what N_M is doing. He's essentially not even in this game and is just taking up a slot.

There's of course you, but you're posting was sparse at the end of D1 and I tend to believe you were more indisposed than the other lurkers at the end of D1.

I almost consider RC to be not part of it because he parked his vote there well before the day end speed

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happened.

Finally, I have been town reading Aisa for awhile, but maybe she's completely blind siding me. For now it's easier to keep her town sorted.

[Celebloki]

So I guess the question is what is the motivation for Kitty to even say that?

scum!Kitty: Make it seem like he's on board with KKFC elim while not joining it and keeping his hands clean.

town!Kitty: ? Is there a town reason to make this comment?

[Celebloki]

Well, maybe we can try a D2 Kitty wagon in honor of Enchant.

VOTE: KittyTacky

[Celebloki]

Reminder to please read rule 14!

Oh shoot, my bad. I am aware and that was a slip. I'll try to be more careful. I am in full agreement with that rule.

[Celebloki]

Uhhhh. Did Dragon mean to post that in the scum PT?

VOTE: DragonEater70

[Celebloki]

So as a sidenote, from Dragon's slip I guess this confirms Drew isn't dead as a result of the scum NK.

[Celebloki]

Well that was a fortunate round of Night Actions

[Celebloki]

We doin this in any order?

[Celebloki]

I'm also VT

KittyTacky?

[Celebloki]

I had guessed yes was probably the other Mason while I was waiting for claims. Made a lot of sense with your interactions with Bianco. With that in mind, I spent a lot of time thinking about it and I feel Aureal is probably also town from her interactions with RC. For me it’s for sure either Kitty or Snivy. I will be busy this morning but plan to deep dive into both there interactions today.

[Celebloki]

At the moment it's sort of just a gut read from Aureal. I do admit I don't know her meta, but her 'theater' with RC just seemed different from DE. It seemed more one sided to me, at least as I remember it right now. As in, it was mostly RC going on and making it seem like Aureal was living in his head. On the other side the DE/RC theater was mostly DE going after RC. At this point I haven't really gone back and tried to analyze RC/Kitty or RC/Snivy. I do recall some interesting exchanges between Snivy and DE as well. I just wanted to go back and start with those 2 and worry about Aureal if I get nowhere.

I think Town is in a pretty good spot here though, I think you're right that there's a good chance this will end up with you making the final decision on the last day when it's down to 3. Even if we miselim today though, I think you should get some good info on whatever happens.

[Celebloki]

That said, I have a kind of busy afternoon. Hopefully tonight I can get some reading in if not tomorrow and get some thoughts in by tomorrow evening. Weekends are always hard for me to get much MS time in.

[Celebloki]

Okay, I can't be bothered.

I'm vig

I don't suppose you're willing to divulge who you shot at? I'm just hoping to determine who might have been the scum kill if we can guess who Aisa killed.

[Celebloki]

Who tf kills Enchant?

uh, anyone who wants a low info kill?

So, you.

This is likely a pretty accurate rationale and has interesting ramifications regarding who DE's partners are. I don't think your precious SNYBEDA is free of scum yet (hi bianco!)

Also Kitty is like, no way a DE partner, from this exchange and, as I was starting to get at, the really towny thought process on KKFC. That wasn't anything like a convincing argument for voting KKFC, scum has no reason to post it there, it's just a townie who knows they're town trying to figure a suspect's motivation in relation to what they'd said about him.

This is also an interesting take on the DE/Kitty relationship. I think I generally agree with it. It makes sense that Aisa killed Drew and Enchant was the scum kill.

[Celebloki]

I would also say looking at the Vote Counts in ISO, I don't think I really see Kitty and RC being paired. Their posts in ISO shows them as largely ignoring each other which could be scum trying to not look paired, but in general I don't really see them as working together. I think reading Kitty and DE shows them as not really being paired.

Looking through RC's posts in regards to Aureal really reeks to me of RC trying to possibly pocket Aureal. I can definitely see all the theater between him and DE.

I think the best play for today may be CCS. I still want to dive more into CCS and his interactions with the relevant parties, but this is where I'm at so far.

[Celebloki]

Also looking at D1 wagons, DE hops between RC and Kitty as his wagons of choice. I don't think it makes sense that he'd pick 2 scum buddies to wagon around. I think RC was his scum wagon to create distance and have theater with, and kitty was his town wagon to mess around on by sheeping Enchant.

[Celebloki]

Yea, I think we go Snivy

VOTE: CCS

[Celebloki]

I think I'm pretty dead set on there having to be scum between Kitty and Snivy. I'm still leaning towards Snivy between the two. If you specifically read DE, RC, Kitty, and Snivy in ISO there's a lot going on between them.

As I said, DE's wagons of choice were RC and Kitty. I see that as he has a scum buddy wagon and a wagon on a townie that is being shaded by other townies.

DE and Snivy had a lot of interaction around how SNYBED was voting and why the other wasn't voting for what they were voting for etc.

SNYBED doesn't seem to be doing a very good job of actually being a block. In one post Snivy admonishes DragonEater for changing his vote to leave a wagon, and then later on changes his vote shortly after DragonEater goes back on it. I'd say there's possibly more than 1 scum in the block.

Yeah that's probably because it never formed naturally as a block

Who do you think is scum in there?

I'm leaning towards Snivy and maybe Yessiree. NM is totally null btw.

However these are pretty weak reads (though honestly all my reads rn are weak).

Asking who I think is scum in SNYBED and then he shades Snivy and Yes.

There's a treasure trove of interaction around these 4.

As I said before RC and Kitty largely ignored each other which can be seen as pretty scummy. RC voted Kitty and parked his vote there forever. DE and Snivy shaded RC quite a bit about his parked vote on Kitty.

If I had to consensus TR one of the other 3 VTs, it'd be Aureal. She just has significantly less interaction then the other 2. If we vote off one of them and let NM shoot the other I don't see how we don't win.

[Celebloki]

I can go along with Kitty. I'll continue to wait for Aureal to catch up and give her thoughts and continue to do my own percolating and reading.

UNVOTE:

[Celebloki]

At this point I just hope it isn't Aureal. If it is her and we end up here tomorrow with the 3 of us, I don't know that I can make a case on her to convince you to vote her. I don't know her meta to analyze her play and just also didn't see much from her to really make a case. If I'm right, then one of Kitty or Snivy are also town and I guess I hoped one of them would actually also provide some nice town analysis for us, but so far no one besides me has actually tried to figure this out which is a little frustrating.

[Celebloki]

She certainly appears that way to me. I'm just saying if she's fooled me and isn't town then I'm scared how the last day will go lol. I still think it's ol' Cascading Style Sheets.

[Celebloki]

Are you certain scum would NK NM over you? That's the one variable we can't control. Whatever the plan is, you'd want to make sure NM was on board with whatever it is.

[Celebloki]

ahh ok, I wasn't sure how that worked. So the primary goal aside from winning, is to endgame as many as we can then. What is it about Kitty that you find more scummy that Snivy?

[Celebloki]

Jeez, MS is really chugging tonight.

[Celebloki]

If we elim the scum today then the rest of us endgame? There's 1 scum remaining surely.

[Celebloki]

Not that endgaming really matters, as long as town wins. I only ask if you decide to vote me out today, then shoot Snivy tonight.

[Celebloki]

I guess I don't understand why 2 VTs die today no matter what, if we eliminate the scum the game is over.

[Celebloki]

I think if it comes down to you, me, and Aureal tomorrow we either already won, or I will be congratulating Aureal on a very unexpected win after a really unfortunate slip by a scumbuddy.

[Celebloki]

If you think Kitty is the vote, I am happy to go along with that. If he flips green I still respectfully suggest NM shoot Snivy.

VOTE: KittyTacky

[Celebloki]

I hope all you guys out there in dead chat are having a good time. I certainly know I am with this highly interactive and fast-paced game we're having. I can't believe all these wacky and shocking twists and turns we're having. It feels really nice how all the people that are still alive are totally still trying to play the game and provide thoughts and insights. It totally doesn't feel like I'm shouting into a vacuum at all.

[Celebloki]

Sure if that's what you want to think. It's not like I've said 50 times now that I think the final scum is between you and kitty and that I'm happy voting either of you off. I'd prefer you, but everyone else decided to stop playing and keep their votes parked.

Does no one else realize that whatever alignment Aureal is is going to be who win. We're deciding who Yes and Aureal are going to vote out tomorrow at this point.

[Celebloki]

If Aureal is scum, good job to her, she somehow got the consensus from all of us to win the game. If either you are Kitty are the scum, you guys decided to give up and wait for it to end.

[Celebloki]

I wish we had gone Snivy instead, but oh well.

[Celebloki]

Boom

[Celebloki]

Yes, please believe me, you have to vote out Aureal. jk jk, I think if DE hadn't made his slip there's a good chance scum would have won that game. That night where RC and Aisa died was also stupid lucky for town.

[Celebloki]

Oh wow, RC and Aisa cross killed each other, after RC soaked her 1 shot BP N1 lol

[Celebloki]

Scum only killed one townie as well, NM. All the other kills were NM and Aisa

[Celebloki]

Wow, bianco called DE as a RB based on his second post lol.

[Celebloki]

Well as an aside, this was a lot of fun. I have been away from MS for nearly 10 years and left on sort of a sour note when I did. I recently was thinking about mafia and sort of on a whim /in'ed to this and another game DE is modding. I'm glad I did. Was having so much fun that I joined a third. unfortunately this one ended and I've died in the others so now I am all out of mafia again. Any feedback on m gameplay would be appreciated. I seem to come off scummy in any game I play lol. I struggle to post and constantly doubt what and how I've written my posts. The decision paralysis tends to keep my post count low in games.

[Celebloki]

Also, I'm glad my 4th wall break to the spectator PT spawned an illegal game. Mission accomplished.