Large Normal 244 | Quotes From my Linear Algebra Professor or Random City Skylines or Random Songs: Town Wins!

[Aisa]

: )
4 days 55 pages? You’ve really outdone yourselves
I’ll catch up later

[Aisa]

I'm starting to read up now and I'm going to post my thoughts periodically until I get tired of catching up.

Spoiler: TLich p2 posts

I'm not sure if a tone read vote is more or less useful than a pure RVS vote

as in, idk if a tone read is of positive or negative utility

I'm not sure if a tone read vote is more or less useful than a pure RVS vote

as in, idk if a tone read is of positive or negative utility

What is useful about an RVS vote out of curiosity? I've been considering them a ness. but annoying thing

RVS votes mostly exist purely to provide initial momentum

I'm feeling confident on a psyche vote barring any reasons to scumread someone else

that post feels like it was planned but it is at least a good train of thought

in fact I can point to 19 as proof that 28 is planned and not a thoughtstream, but still this is a less than worthless tone read right now

Lich's whole posting on page two is Lich scumhunting much more seriously than I ever remember him doing in my admittedly limited experience.
Not sure if that's a good sign or a bad sign. I think I lean slightly towards good.

Looks like he continues the trend on page 3. I can tell I'm going to have some fun trying to read this slot!

Spoiler: Klazam

Was going to RVS BBmolla- do you remember me? I recall you back in the day lol

But

Holy fuck Psyche. That’s too much lol.

VOTE: Psyche

This is the first scumping I'm getting though the reference to "back in the day" makes me think that maybe it's just a back-in-the-day tonal thing

Spoiler: Psyche

woah wait i actually do think furtive is the scummiest player here so far
let's delay explanation until page 2. page 2 has always been my lucky page and in the interim i can probably at least finish data collection

also this doesn't exactly shout "i have a town mindset so you should not vote me"

btw gotta say this post is weird i know "too townie" is an informal fallacy but a post that exactly shouts "i have a town mindset so you should not vote me" would probably strike as a bit too on the nose for my tastes

Maybe this can be a not-aligned-with-TL reaction.

On page 4, Random Nurse is definitely off a very different start from the scumgame of his I saw. Maybe part of this is being excited for a format of game he likes and for playing with people he knows. But I kinda want to believe it means he's town too.

Spoiler: ZZZX

To be honest I wana jump on Psyc but I have a better idea

Hmmmm do we think the "to be honest" tell is worth anything?

Spoiler: the worst

I like Lich

This is the content I need

Spoiler: furtive

VOTE: Random Nurse

didnt even THANK me when i signed up for this game when it really needed players what the hey hey is up with that

Listen—I was on a mission.

No time for pleasantries along the way.

But yeah thanks for coming. I was the first to /in and got tired of waiting for months and months.

this is what i wanted btw

nurse town

You wanted RN to explain that they were recruiting players and thank you for joining? Why is that, of all posts, town?

Mindmeld!

Spoiler: Lich

i did not call incoherence scummy. it's null. it's super

easy

to be incoherent and not post substantive content. i can hardly thing of anything easier besides lurking.

i did not call incoherence scummy. it's null. it's super

easy

to be incoherent and not post substantive content. i can hardly thing of anything easier besides lurking.

yeah this is fake incoherence

i dont really know what the two of you are arguing about

i dont really know what the two of you are arguing about

psyche believes incoherence isn't a towntell

Lich continuing to be towny imo

Spoiler: Psyche

anyway i townread lich

Oh no, I'm no longer original and provocative

Tl;dr: Lich town?

[Aisa]

I'm starting to read up now and I'm going to post my thoughts periodically until I get tired of catching up.

Spoiler: ZZZX

To be honest I wana jump on Psyc but I have a better idea

Hmmmm do we think the "to be honest" tell is worth anything?

Tbh not really

Eyeroll~

@Aisa - that question mark on the town? Is an amazing recollection of the entirety of TL ISO.

Hehe

what makes you think a self-vote made as a joke isn't a self-vote

mafiascum.net
come for the mafia stay for the philosophy

[Aisa]

I've still been reading the game, but I got bored of thoughtstreaming my... thoughts.

they are reads that aren't planned posts

I got no idea what this means, can you rephrase

they are thoughtstreamed reads that are not fake reads

How can you possibly make that judgement on those. Delve further

VOTE: Temporarl

No,

I think you're wolf

. I don't care about pressure, you already failed at responding what I was asking you when I was giving you the light of day to explain yourself. But even if I was doing this primarily to put pressure on you, why is backing out ever the solution?

TL is town

Agreed, it's incredibly clear to me

I've read all of page 17. I'm currently wishing that someone would ask JV about the apparent contradiction here but no one's asked yet.
And on that note I'm out for the night.

[Aisa]

Well now I’m curious why I’m getting scumread, Scratch

[Aisa]

I think your catch up is more likely to come from scum in the sense that you only commented on things that happened 40+ pages ago (aside from some fluff posts), and merlyn was scummy

Ok, however unlike scum that’s trying to fake engagement I will continue my catch up tonight

Does it surprise you that I'm scum reading you?

Initially I was a little surprised, but reflecting on why you might scumread me I decided you might have pretty fair reasons
I thought the read could have been based on Merlyn and also that in my like… 5 posts at the time I wasn’t particularly towny

[Aisa]

Counterwagon energy intensifies
UNVOTE: Hu tao this was a vote Merlyn had placed
VOTE: ZZZX I'm doing this because I do suspect them a little from what I've read so far. And also because this way I can give fleaf more work to do =D.

I'll read more of the game in a few hours and should have more to say then

[Aisa]

[...]

No,

I think you're wolf

. I don't care about pressure, you already failed at responding what I was asking you when I was giving you the light of day to explain yourself. But even if I was doing this primarily to put pressure on you, why is backing out ever the solution?

TL is town

Agreed, it's incredibly clear to me

I've read all of page 17. I'm currently wishing that someone would ask JV about the apparent contradiction here but no one's asked yet.
And on that note I'm out for the night.

It’s only a contradiction if Town was not allowed to progress and change their reads. But we are allowed to, so it isn’t

Yeah, I agree Town are allowed to change their reads. Which is why I said "apparent" contradiction, there can be reasons why it's not an actual contradiction.

Anyway, I've now read up to page 25 and I haven't seen you explicitly say what made you change your mind between 310 and 368. Do you remember, and, if so, care to share?

[Aisa]

and I actually think Aisa is scummier for joining the ZZZX wagon with no good reason

It could just be stubbornness at being placed in a certain group and then wanting to vote with that group in a tribalistic way.

Wow k thanks for the high praise

You say I'm obvtown. Please expand on that I don't like the fact I've been town-read this easily and without proper reason. Feels like an easy read to throw out

You came into the thread with the same ideas I had, like I would think something and scroll down and you'd said it. Also, you're being that one town that drowns the thread because they're enjoying the game so much

Can you give an example of these same ideas

[Aisa]

and I actually think Aisa is scummier for joining the ZZZX wagon with no good reason

It could just be stubbornness at being placed in a certain group and then wanting to vote with that group in a tribalistic way.

Wow k thanks for the high praise

You say I'm obvtown. Please expand on that I don't like the fact I've been town-read this easily and without proper reason. Feels like an easy read to throw out

You came into the thread with the same ideas I had, like I would think something and scroll down and you'd said it. Also, you're being that one town that drowns the thread because they're enjoying the game so much

Can you give an example of these same ideas

I'll clarify by saying this includes ideas I thought of but didn't say because I wasn't 100% sure on, or maybe a low-strength read to put it differently.
217 - I also thought Klazam's 69 was a little strange, though I've come round a TR on them now.

220

237

Ok thanks. I have no idea what to make of this right now but I'll come back to it at some point.

I feel like if Hu Tao's posts on this page are an attempt at faking a townslip they're not a half bad attempt
I'm inclined to think it's a town reaction

[Aisa]

And did you learn anything from looking at it?

[Aisa]

^Ok... I'll keep that in mind

Kitty is a gut thing. I like to trust my gut with Kitty, and I feel really good about it considering I caught them as scum recently, and then correctly town read in another. They havent really done anything super townie, but they get pushed a lot, and I instinctively like to defend them in a way where I think the pushes on them are NAI, and then if I see content from Kitty, I generally town read it because their scum postings shine out to me hard.

Do I have hallucinations or did Kitty post exactly zero times before getting replaced??

[Aisa]

This is the full post for context in case people are not motivated to go back and read it
Kitty got placed in the "Light Town" tier lmfao

Spoiler:

WELCOME Citizens of

LARGE NORMAL 244!!!

It's me, the one, definitely the only

LEAF

that brings the

BEEF

,

FLAVORRRRRRRR

This...is

LAST NIGHT TOMORROW

Jackson
Furtive
Temporal

Ducky
Merlyn
Davesaz?

Psyche
KittyTacky

Bob
iamveryhappy
Flavia
Naerys
Shadowez

Save The Dragons
Hu Tao
Bianco
Snivy
Klazam

ZZzx
BBmolla
Random Nurse
Shrek

Town

-

Lean Town/color]

-

Light Town

-

Neutral

-

Light Scum/color]

-

Lean Scum

-

SCUM

No order between tiers.

I don't have a lot of confidence in my bottom two tiers, and I could make light town cases on a few of them, like Hu Tao, but I could also scum case most of these, or at least have gotten pinged or little real town reasons for em.

I don't think BBm is as townie as people are saying, and I think their play is exactly what Psyche was projecting that I was going to be doing with the coasting, but I also do think it's out their style to do it as town, and I'm also a bit biased since I know they're poorly pushing me incorrectly.

A top town read of mine scum read Snivy, and I don't have anything major to defend, so I'm open for it, and that's kind of how I realized I don't have any real thing to defend them with. I want to town read them, though, I just am not.

Bob tier is my neutral tier, either lack of posting or no true pings either way.

Daves I have liked a good amount of their posts, but I think I'm biased with how theyve been posting in regards to familiarity with me. Idk. I'm remembering liking their posts, I think I didn't like them early game, but I'm feeling okay with them, but I think it's biased. Does this make sense?

I really like my top tier, similar to how it was with the 3 of JV, me, and TL with Ducky, i feel with Furtive, but even moreso. Ducky is good, and I almost put them in the top tier, but probably need more.

Kitty is a gut thing. I like to trust my gut with Kitty, and I feel really good about it considering I caught them as scum recently, and then correctly town read in another. They havent really done anything super townie, but they get pushed a lot, and I instinctively like to defend them in a way where I think the pushes on them are NAI, and then if I see content from Kitty, I generally town read it because their scum postings shine out to me hard.

Pysche ive explained, i dont get their purpose if scum, but i wouldnt die on that hill. Am curious, though, because BBm is doing the thing they projected that I would be doing, which I talked about earlier.

()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)()_+_)()_-_)

Will BBmolla ever realize their push isn't happening this early in the game?

How long will it be until TemporalLich starts making sense with their reads and play?

Is it even possible for Furtiveglance to town read me harder?!??!?!?

Find out next time on

LAST NIGHT TOMORROW!!!!!!!!

I actually have no idea what's happening
Is this a post I'm not meant to take seriously or what

[Aisa]

Flavor Leaf, the next time you are in this thread you will explain yourself!
And if you don't... I will hunt you down and I will find you and when I find you I will... uh... I'll vote you!!

[Aisa]

[...]

No,

I think you're wolf

. I don't care about pressure, you already failed at responding what I was asking you when I was giving you the light of day to explain yourself. But even if I was doing this primarily to put pressure on you, why is backing out ever the solution?

TL is town

Agreed, it's incredibly clear to me

I've read all of page 17. I'm currently wishing that someone would ask JV about the apparent contradiction here but no one's asked yet.
And on that note I'm out for the night.

It’s only a contradiction if Town was not allowed to progress and change their reads. But we are allowed to, so it isn’t

Yeah, I agree Town are allowed to change their reads. Which is why I said "apparent" contradiction, there can be reasons why it's not an actual contradiction.

Anyway, I've now read up to page 25 and I haven't seen you explicitly say what made you change your mind between 310 and 368. Do you remember, and, if so, care to share?

@JacksonVirgo

you didn't answer my question!

[Aisa]

VOTE: Hu tao

This is warranted I think. I also want to take my Hu Tao townlean back, I think I was a bit too hasty with thinking their not knowing this game was multiball had to come from town. 1835 is not a good response - it doesn't really help us understand Hu Tao's reasoning and is almost a dodging of the question. (Although I get the impression Hu Tao feels a bit pressed for time and if that's what's going on then that sucks and I'm sorry.)

P-edit: yeah

[...]
Even if I am suspicious of them, I doubt I am going to push them day 1 unless I am very confident as they are playing in a way that could get them night killed anyway

I got excited when I saw this because it's a strictly-town perspective. Like, sometimes in this game I see a post and think "I believe you are genuinely trying to scumhunt but this doesn't mean you're town". I really want this to be a true thought CSF had because that would mean she's town 100%.


I'm fairly caught up by the way, I'm just missing pages 40-55 ish

[Aisa]

I'm not sure how to approach this game, feel like if I push a low-posting slot it's not guaranteed to reveal anything about the slot's alignment nor are there any low-posting slots where I'm like, confident they flip scum. But if I talk to active slots I'm just contributing to bloat and makes it hard to keep up

[Aisa]

Ok uhm here's some thoughts in the order they occur to me.

I'm not sure how to approach this game, feel like if I push a low-posting slot it's not guaranteed to reveal anything about the slot's alignment nor are there any low-posting slots where I'm like, confident they flip scum. But if I talk to active slots I'm just contributing to bloat and makes it hard to keep up

You seem genuine, I think you're town. Can you iso CSF and tell me if you think their posts seem authentic? For some reason they feel forced

I townread CSF based on her posting so far. I would say I am very taken in though not completely, maybe 3/4 of the way

Mind you, I've gotten her wrong before. And multiball is hard. But the last game I played with her, she was scum, and so far she looks significantly townier to me. (I just went back and checked this to make sure I'm not remembering wrong). Her posts here are denser and more analytical and when I imagine what a town!CSF would look like, I can't name how she would be different from here. I'd be pretty sorry to see her go today and would prefer almost any other name that has come up.

Here's some quick comments on why I don't think furtive's case is very compelling:

furtiveglance, Hu Tao, JacksonVirgo, ZZZX, Aisa

Merlyn

JV is in the bottom 5 slots here, out of 23 players. That's a scumread.

[...]

Does this look like a player talking to their scumread? It doesn't to me.

If I had to make a big readslist and put 5 slots in the bottom tier right now, none of them would be confident scumreads. I agree the piggybacking off JV's post to explain her read on someone is a little unusual but like... I can easily see it coming from someone who just wants to explain their read.

It started as just a feeling when you were questioning TL - I felt like TL was being weird town, and it seemed a bit like you were pushing him for his weird but not necessarily scummy stances.

Then [...]

This post was the kicker for me. [...] Nonsensical progressions, changing opinions to match FL, scum positioning around a TL lim. These are all serious charges! But then we just a get a 'south of null' conclusion. No vote, no suggestion of JV being a possible vote for CSF. Also, 'south of null' is far less severe than in the bottom 5 reads. So to me, it just looks like CSF wanted JV to see that she was scumreading/leaning them to get some town points and have a 'contrary' opinion.

If I come into a game and scumread a player who's widely townread, I'll go in quite hard and explain to other players why. Probably vote them as well. This treatment of JV just looks so weird to me.[...]

I've lost count of the times I've played with townies who have apparently nonsensical progressions. Idk none of these charges seem serious to me, they're all kinda speculative

Looks like this post ended up becoming a monograph on the cat, but that's ok with me!

[Aisa]

Unofficial VC:

Cat Scratch Fever (4): Hu Tao, furtiveglance, pisskop, BBMolla
ZZZX (3): Naerys, the worst, Aisa
Hu Tao (3): bob3141, Save the Dragons, Cat Scratch Fever
BBMolla (2): Psyche, Snivy
camelCasedSnivy (2): davesaz, shaddowez
iamveryhappy (2): Shrek, JacksonVirgo
TemporalLich (1): Flavor Leaf
Shrek (1): ZZZX
JacksonVirgo (1): iamveryhappy
davesaz (1): Doctor Drew
Psyche (1): TemporalLich

Not voting (2): Random Nurse, Klazam

High likelihood I screwed something up

[Aisa]

I think my position on some of the most popular wagons today is:

Would do ZZZX, iavh, or Hu Tao. I think of these my preferred one is ZZZX but I'd be kidding myself if I thought I was good enough that the exact choice here matters
No idea why BBMolla is an option but I don't feel strongly about the slot - p-edit oh yeah I guess Psyche probably has thoughts on this
Not interested in CSF or TLich

I think I didn't forget any major wagons.

[Aisa]

Im okay with any of those.

we still have 4 whole days. thats the weekend

P: @aisa

Yeah, I'm not in a rush. Just putting some content out there y'know?

[Aisa]

Meh
I think ZZZX's reaction is a little towny but I don't like the part where I have to figure out a new wagon
How's everyone else doing

[Aisa]

Meh
I think ZZZX's reaction is a little towny but I don't like the part where I have to figure out a new wagon
How's everyone else doing

based on what other than emotion?

omg I don't remember I'm gonna have to do a reread real quick :')

[Aisa]

Meh
I think ZZZX's reaction is a little towny but I don't like the part where I have to figure out a new wagon
How's everyone else doing

based on what other than emotion?

omg I don't remember I'm gonna have to do a reread real quick :')

Rereading the ISO I'm more uncertain
I'm tempted to townread them for statements like these:

Out of everything to say I am making up, I just feel that's like, something so ridiculious insignificant, not even meant to give me any credits (Am I trying to get more town credit by adding those three lines?) And I don't see any intent as scum to explain that. And people somehow get mixed up on how to explain that one line that they made up tens of reason to suspect me for it, I made it up, I am defending bbMolla (somehow?), I am trying to detract from Flavor's reads, and a few others.

It feels like there might be genuine indignation here.

This said I now think their pushes look really scummy:

Spoiler: ZZZX pushing someone

Temporal is scum,
Flavor is scum

ZZX, what's with the certainty on FL?

Also, can more people unvote, I don't want to end the day yet (even though ZZX has kind of sealed their fate with the vanilla claim).

FL went from a strong town read, with a scum read on Flavor, then, while I am on V/LA, magically jumps on my wagon right after Flavor, their entire exchange was also weird when I was having my FL arguement saga

Also, if a vanilla claim si all that's needed to seal someone's fate, well, lets just say that people might be worse at this than I imagined.

Lets keep reading, a lot of exciting posts to comment on

(Does ZZZX mean TL rather than FL here? Too lazy to check before submitting but it doesn't really affect my opinion on the scumminess of the push tbh)
Granted I never like it when people make the "suspicious timing" case, but this is just an incredibly easy scumread to fake
Maybe my vote can stay

[Aisa]

[...]

No,

I think you're wolf

. I don't care about pressure, you already failed at responding what I was asking you when I was giving you the light of day to explain yourself. But even if I was doing this primarily to put pressure on you, why is backing out ever the solution?

TL is town

Agreed, it's incredibly clear to me

I've read all of page 17. I'm currently wishing that someone would ask JV about the apparent contradiction here but no one's asked yet.
And on that note I'm out for the night.

It’s only a contradiction if Town was not allowed to progress and change their reads. But we are allowed to, so it isn’t

Hey JV it seems like you're around so this seems like the ideal time to do some shameless self promotion and bump my question!

Yeah, I agree Town are allowed to change their reads. Which is why I said "apparent" contradiction, there can be reasons why it's not an actual contradiction.

Anyway, I've now read up to page 25 and I haven't seen you explicitly say what made you change your mind between 310 and 368. Do you remember, and, if so, care to share?

[Aisa]

[...]

No,

I think you're wolf

. I don't care about pressure, you already failed at responding what I was asking you when I was giving you the light of day to explain yourself. But even if I was doing this primarily to put pressure on you, why is backing out ever the solution?

TL is town

Agreed, it's incredibly clear to me

I've read all of page 17. I'm currently wishing that someone would ask JV about the apparent contradiction here but no one's asked yet.
And on that note I'm out for the night.

It’s only a contradiction if Town was not allowed to progress and change their reads. But we are allowed to, so it isn’t

Yeah, I agree Town are allowed to change their reads. Which is why I said "apparent" contradiction, there can be reasons why it's not an actual contradiction.

Anyway, I've now read up to page 25 and I haven't seen you explicitly say what made you change your mind between 310 and 368. Do you remember, and, if so, care to share?

Hey JV it seems like you're around so this seems like the ideal time to do some shameless self promotion and bump my question!

(sorry I messed up the quotes in the previous one)

[Aisa]

Oh, I posted why like 2 pages after 368 but I'll restate it just cuz your avatar is cute.

The combination both them being concerned about appearances but at the same time told me they misrepresented me. If they were scum who was so concerned about appearances that they just shut down over pressure to not hurt their appeared charisma/standing, telling somebody you used a manipulation tactic is crazy. They were also incredibly consistent with how they acted even when pressured by the two most vocal and (at the time) the two strongest voices in the game. Both of those were a realisation I made at the time, but didn't think was a strong idea but then after thinking a little bit and also testing the waters, I realised that yeah, they're probably just anti-town town. But anti-town town is still town. Hope this helps

Oh you're right you did explain a little soon after
Thanks for re-explaining

[Aisa]

ZZZX have you played with Flavor Leaf in the past?
If yes, how would you expect him to act differently if he were town here?

[Aisa]

ZZZX have you played with Flavor Leaf in the past?
If yes, how would you expect him to act differently if he were town here?

I did play significantly with Flavor, but its been years and years ago (5+?)

For one, I know Flavor wouldn't blindly push me on that, also town-Flavor is much less serious, much less uses bullshit about 'if I am scum then people follow me more', and generally is less aggressive and more, well, chaotic. Also town-Flavor has a very good (usually) record on reading me, which failing catastrophically here is another point.

BUT

Its been long enough that my meta read is unreliable, I will be the first to admit

Do you think that town Flavor would argue that regardless of your alignment, you're the "optimal" flip today?

[Aisa]

ZZZX have you played with Flavor Leaf in the past?
If yes, how would you expect him to act differently if he were town here?

I did play significantly with Flavor, but its been years and years ago (5+?)

For one, I know Flavor wouldn't blindly push me on that, also town-Flavor is much less serious, much less uses bullshit about 'if I am scum then people follow me more', and generally is less aggressive and more, well, chaotic. Also town-Flavor has a very good (usually) record on reading me, which failing catastrophically here is another point.

BUT

Its been long enough that my meta read is unreliable, I will be the first to admit

Do you think that town Flavor would argue that regardless of your alignment, you're the "optimal" flip today?

Honestly? Not a single clue. I would like to argue Town-Flavor wouldn't, but I have no confidence in so, and that would be a lie.

Ok
(I haven't played with Flavor much, but a little bit)
FWIW to me this looks like pretty standard Flavor Leaf but obviously I can't comment on whether he should have an immediate soulTownRead on you

Anyway I need to turn my brain off so I will see everyone tomorrow

p-edit guys I have been stuck in preview hell for like at least 30 seconds!! I would just like to submit my post

[Aisa]

VOTE: iamveryhappy
Currently slightly prefer this to ZZZX

[Aisa]

Hey Psyche, how's the search for scumreads going?

[Aisa]

my iso is a running report on that. feel free to take a click

I guess I was more wondering whether you had any secret spicy scumreads
I did look at your ISO before asking, I saw a scumread on Molla which seems fine and a dislike of policy eliminations

Now that I'm thinking a little more about Molla I can see you might think that the focus on policy eliminations could be an easy way to coast through day 1

[Aisa]

I for one am looking forward to a flip or three~

Ik no one asked, just thought I would provide an update on my state of mind regardless

[Aisa]

I for one am looking forward to a flip or three~

Ik no one asked, just thought I would provide an update on my state of mind regardless

Do you want to help me blitz through Bob and dave in the next couple of days

No

[Aisa]

I for one am looking forward to a flip or three~

Ik no one asked, just thought I would provide an update on my state of mind regardless

Do you want to help me blitz through Bob and dave in the next couple of days

No

Ahh :c
Why do you scumread them anyway

[Aisa]

thread-flowey?

copying other posters who were sussing CSF at the time.

also i hate to point out your saying im flowing with those posters when im "flowing" in opposite direction. They suss CSF while i started with null town read on CSF with my questioning solidifying my read there.

What about CSF's posting solidified your read?

[Aisa]

Cool deaths, now I feel more interested in trying to solve this game.

I wasn't 100% confident but I thought Drew was a bit towny, so it's interesting that he got shot. I wonder if he was shot in an attempt to hit scum, and if so which players would have that sort of read on him.

Klazam will be great to mine for associatives later.

[Aisa]

At one point I had this pet theory that CSF and Hu Tao were scum on the same team distancing. (This was basically based on CSF's read of Hu Tao - posts this one seemed a bit too tunnelly for my comfort. I thought that maybe she felt the need to double down on her Hu Tao read after that slot made a couple scummy posts.)

Reviewing their joint ISO, however, I don't think this quite fits. Posts like the following:

Hu Tao, I think you've been playing up the newbie card a little bit as a reason to hold back. It reminds me of Blood over Utopia where you were in the background because the mechanics confused you

This is a fair read! I think you could be town. I'm sorry but I'm just overwhelmed and I'm an honest person so I say what's on my mind.

UNVOTE:

Not sure who is scum

Why did you unvote here?

I actually iso'd them and I don't hate their posts.

read a bit like Hu Tao's just trying to move on as quickly as possible from CSF's questioning. Hu Tao's ISO is just one-line reply to one-line reply. CSF, meanwhile, goes after Hu Tao pretty relentlessly. It doesn't feel like she's pulling punches. She seems EAGER to tell everyone this slot is scum. Seems like a pretty unusual dynamic for two teammates who are just trying to do some distancing. idk her ISO seems pretty towny overall

All the while Hu Tao's just got a scumread on CSF that looks like it could be a reaction. It's not really clear where the read comes from, there's just some sort of period ic gesturing to a scumread in the form of "vote CSF" or this question:

I'm not sure how to approach this game, feel like if I push a low-posting slot it's not guaranteed to reveal anything about the slot's alignment nor are there any low-posting slots where I'm like, confident they flip scum. But if I talk to active slots I'm just contributing to bloat and makes it hard to keep up

You seem genuine, I think you're town. Can you iso CSF and tell me if you think their posts seem authentic? For some reason they feel forced

which I answered and they never engaged with again.

I think this is an ok place to start?
VOTE: Hu Tao

[Aisa]

Hu tao is so scummy lmao

Their scumread on me seems like starting from the conclusion and making things up after the fact

Why can't I just be misguided town? The fact that you immediately think I'm scum is what's worse for you.

This reads like something I might blurt out in a moment of panic if I was scum in an in-person game

Hu Tao if you want to respond to this by the way, what are your reads at the moment? Why is CSF scum?

[Aisa]

Someone investigate Hu Tao

Please don't

I’m investigating you am I gonna die

Anyone who visits me, will regret it.

I personally dont like the "anyone who visits me will regret it" post.

Now that i am looking at it i dont like the BBmolla- Hu Tao interaction at all.

What do you not like about those posts?

[Aisa]

for me, the reason I think Hu Tao is scum is because of the way they joined onto ZZZx, and the way they interacted with CSF is highly indicative of scum Tao.

In addition this, there are multiple supplementary reasons, such as the way Klazam defended Hu Tao, the Hu Tao shade choices.

Do you think Hu Tao's town and scum metas are different, and if so what do you think the difference is?

[Aisa]

Oh, I got a guilty on Psyche btw

You're so casual about this can you like do a little more words (not necessarily about your role if you don't think that's appropriate) and use Serious Accusations and drama so my brain can register it as a serious unironic guilty
Danke

[Aisa]

JV
(when you're ready to answer, if you think you should etc)
let's assume you have a soft guilty. We flip Psyche and he's green. What do you think a fair way to handle the situation would be?

Do you think your guilty is strong enough that it's worth the risk of two town eliminations in a row (Psyche + you) if something funny happened last night?

[Aisa]

I don’t scumread Psyche on top of his claim, quite the opposite in fact, which leaves me in quite a pickle

[Aisa]

I don’t scumread Psyche on top of his claim, quite the opposite in fact, which leaves me in quite a pickle

So, what are you making of it all?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. (Disclaimer I've not read every single post in super gruesome detail)

I guess the most important thing to decide right now is whether to support the Psyche wagon. I agree that from an objective standpoint it's a pretty good wagon. I did some silly maths earlier and figure the baseline chance of both you and Psyche being town is not much higher than 15% (suppose there are like, three roleblocking roles in this game, one for each team, and each had about a 1/20 chance of being on you last night).

BUT I have this self-indulgent townread on Psyche. I think his play since the "guilty" has been towny.

I'm kinda leaning towards following my homebrew read tbh, apologies in advance I realise I'm acting kinda stubborn

[Aisa]

Oh yeah good point
dave pinged me earlier btw I'm ready to wagon him when you want

[Aisa]

I don’t scumread Psyche on top of his claim, quite the opposite in fact, which leaves me in quite a pickle

So, what are you making of it all?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. (Disclaimer I've not read every single post in super gruesome detail)

I guess the most important thing to decide right now is whether to support the Psyche wagon. I agree that from an objective standpoint it's a pretty good wagon. I did some silly maths earlier and figure the baseline chance of both you and Psyche being town is not much higher than 15% (suppose there are like, three roleblocking roles in this game, one for each team, and each had about a 1/20 chance of being on you last night).

BUT I have this self-indulgent townread on Psyche. I think his play since the "guilty" has been towny.

I'm kinda leaning towards following my homebrew read tbh, apologies in advance I realise I'm acting kinda stubborn

You actually did the math on it? Impressive. But yeah, the numbers are of course skewed based on dayplay etc but that's beyond the point.

So assuming a 15% chance that me and Psyche are both Town.

Where are you landing? Are you leaning both town or I'm wolf?

I purposefully left out my read on you because I'm not sure and it would take more time than I have today to reread your iso.

Let's ignore your claim for a moment. I don't think your play is obvtown by any stretch. You post a lot and you have this very self-assured playstyle. I think people tend to townread that. But I think your slightly aggressive energy is something you could exploit as scum if you wanted to. You're not afraid to push your scumreads and I think you could be hiding some scum motives behind a pretense of scumhunting. I don't think some of your pushes are great (I think Nurse is town) which contributes to my wariness

But I don't think you!scum is the simplest explanation in a vacuum. In a vacuum, I think you're probably just town.

Essentially in my heart right now you're both town
But I'm going to keep monitoring the situation

[Aisa]

I kind of also don't scumread Psyche aside from claims, but I feel like we need to resolve the JV claim.

Oh I would lim Psyche in a heartbeat if it was guaranteed to resolve the situation
The issue is that if he flips town it doesn't

[Aisa]

Why is psyche still on bbm if bbm was vanilla?

Interesting point. I have explanations in mind but it would be good to see Psyche address this I think

[Aisa]

Something in RL distracted me today, I hope to contribute more tomorrow

[Aisa]

Aaaa this game is not easy

[Aisa]

VOTE: RN

Why are you voting here?

I personally wouldnt mind JV flip, tbh. He might be easily lying. Not sure if scum teams would prefer of maybe hitting other scum instead of killing town PR

Tell me more. How likely do you think JV is to be scum? I also can’t tell if you’re implying anything with your second sentence

[Aisa]

I’m tinfoiling CSF so hard rn

[Aisa]

Im probably not voting anyone but RN today ftr

Sorry if I missed this, can you remind me why you scumread this slot

[Aisa]

The whole JV - Psyche saga in one place for convenience:

JV claims a guilty on Psyche. Keep scrolling for Psyche's reaction.
Psyche claims Vig.
JV claims JOAT who used a Loyal Fruit Vendor shot on Psyche, explaining that they thought Psyche would have claimed the fruit vendor shot if they had received it.
Psyche claims Complex Vig.
BBMolla (Psyche's target) claims Vanilla.
Psyche claims he didn't receive fruit. (He may have claimed/hinted this before this post too).

[Aisa]

FMPOV I think JV is Scum, because he says he targeted Psyche, Psyche did not mention getting fruit (did he deny it?), and then Psyche flipped Town.

*scratches brain*

But if Psyche was Town, and got a random fruit, would he really lie about not getting it? What reason as Town would he have for lying?

Then again could Scum JV send a Loyal Fruit to a random player to check if they're a different alignment? Then again if JV WAS Scum and he targeted some other player not on his team wouldn't that by default means they're not the same alignment? If so, then what would be the point of Scum JV sending out Loyal Fruit?

FWIW, if JV is scum I think it's

much

more likely that they don't actually have a Loyal Fruit vendor shot. As you say, a Loyal Fruit Vendor is nearly useless in the hands of scum, as only their teammates would ever receive fruit.

I don't think JV would have much specific motivation as scum to claim this weird Loyal Fruit Vendor beyond "this is a weird claim that might get me townread".

[Aisa]

VOTE: RN

Why are you voting here?

I personally wouldnt mind JV flip, tbh. He might be easily lying. Not sure if scum teams would prefer of maybe hitting other scum instead of killing town PR

Tell me more. How likely do you think JV is to be scum? I also can’t tell if you’re implying anything with your second sentence

How likely? I dont know. He was widely considered as town, i personaly dont trust him though. I am trying to think like a scum a bit - what would be more advantageous to them - killing a maybe other scum team or killing town PR? Hmm if JV is town then scum wants us to elim JV. Bcz after Psyche flip there naturally SHOULD be suspiction towards JV. Honestly, who doesnt suspect JV atleast a bit should be considered scummy.
As i said, i will not mind JV flip, but for now its not my priority. Just putting a "sus" label on that slot.

Sorry i am brainstorming a little

What is your priority? Can I get a readslist from you?

Cards on the table, I think you're sus. I look at your ISO and I feel like you've spent a lot of this game just floating by. Sometimes you pop into the thread with a small question or comment like "FL seems like a player who needs to go sooner or later". It's hard to find a place where you have a strong opinion, which makes me worry you're scum who doesn't really care about what goes on during the day.

VOTE: Naerys

[Aisa]

I can only say what my honest impression is and that's my impression. It may not be true or fair from your point of view, in which case I'd be happy to hear what you have to say.

[Aisa]

STD is one of the wagons I like the most so far. VOTE: STD

There's other stuff I could say about various people but I'll get to it later.

[Aisa]

Rn I think is scum but I can't figure out what N2 STD is if he's scum

But I don't think RN lies about being bullet proof in one game and miraculously gets to be whatever convenient bp he's claiming in the next

Disagree with this take
I was very alarmed initially because until this post I was assuming RN was trueclaiming (I townread RN). It turns out he did fakeclaim BP in the game STD appears to be referencing, Mini Normal 2309. But, despite the fakeclaim, he was town there. So I don't think the BP claim is a reason to scumread RN

I don't really have a strong opinion on CSF and would be mostly doing it just to wagon someone who might be scum that I'm just too dumb to read correctly

Mood though

[Aisa]

CSF did you get promoted

[Aisa]

You mean as a wagon right? -_-

[Aisa]

Is there anything you wanna chat about, Snivy?

Cat Scratch Fever why did you town read klazam day one as i see you placed them in your top town tier but cant really see much about them in iso. ANd those two mentions were all in relation to Hu tao

CSF is to be considerd too. I feel like i am going in circles, tbh.

is this what we're doing for the CSF wagon?

does anyone have a stronger wagon though

Here's a possible start. What kind of wagon are you looking for? Stronger than just CSF or stronger than any of the current wagons? What's wrong with the current wagons?

You don't even have to answer all that in a lot of detail. Just an idea of what you're thinking would be nice.

[Aisa]

I'm also not massively in love with any of the current wagons, the problem is I don't have any better ideas

[Aisa]

I'm also not massively in love with any of the current wagons, the problem is I don't have any better ideas

exactly

what do you think about shadow wagon again

I am however very pocketable, keep agreeing with what I say and you'll find yourself with a townread from me in no time ^^

I have no thoughts about shaddowez whatsoever except 1. their posting in the last few hours seems ok and 2. furtive seems to think their posting is ok and furtive has DEFINITELY got me pocketed. So they get a pass for now.

[Aisa]

seems like a lot of shade being thrown onto me with barely any action

So do you think people are pushing you as scummy because we're already wagoning scum?

either world is possible

if std/csf is scum: im i guess the easiest pivot for them (which probably means we are pushing scum PR)
if std/csf is town: theyre throwing shade onto me for an easy lim tommorow

this is all from my pov

It's kind of interesting that Snivy doesn't mention / seem aware of the fact scum might want to scumhunt in this post. I wonder if that's AI in any direction

[Aisa]

I'm also not massively in love with any of the current wagons, the problem is I don't have any better ideas

exactly

what do you think about shadow wagon again

I am however very pocketable, keep agreeing with what I say and you'll find yourself with a townread from me in no time ^^

I have no thoughts about shaddowez whatsoever except 1. their posting in the last few hours seems ok and 2. furtive seems to think their posting is ok and furtive has DEFINITELY got me pocketed. So they get a pass for now.

That's good - you're one of my top TRs!

Don't let it go to your head xx

Mech is the only way I play. I came back because I missed doing logic puzzles

Wow! I don't think I've seen anyone with this approach to the game before

[Aisa]

StD flips town

- attention will have to go to those, who are trying to divert us for a diff wagon, (bob, furtiveglance)

StD flips scum

-analyse votes out of the wagon, suspects like dave or CSF, or maybe possible bus from buddy?

Okay i am officialy braindead, mananged to mix up those 2. Ofc when StD flips town then go for dave or perhaps CSF and if flips scum then for bob or FG

I mean... ignoring the fact that townies can be wrong and scum can bus, isn't this an idea you can literally apply to any wagon?

Aisa flips town - pay attention to who wanted her eliminated!!
Aisa flips scum - pay attention to who wanted to protect her!

Is there a reason you're mentioning it now?

I have more thoughts on the general gamestate forthcoming

[Aisa]

StD flips town

- attention will have to go to those, who are trying to divert us for a diff wagon, (bob, furtiveglance)

StD flips scum

-analyse votes out of the wagon, suspects like dave or CSF, or maybe possible bus from buddy?

Okay i am officialy braindead, mananged to mix up those 2. Ofc when StD flips town then go for dave or perhaps CSF and if flips scum then for bob or FG

I mean... ignoring the fact that townies can be wrong and scum can bus, isn't this an idea you can literally apply to any wagon?

Aisa flips town - pay attention to who wanted her eliminated!!
Aisa flips scum - pay attention to who wanted to protect her!

Is there a reason you're mentioning it now?

I have more thoughts on the general gamestate forthcoming

Ok rereading this maybe this isn't a very fair accusation sorry, people probably say this stuff all the time and I reacted this way partly because I already suspect you and partly because I don't think the reaction to StD's claim is very well founded

I'd still be curious to hear a bit more about why you think STD is a good flip right now

[Aisa]

I swear I saw a game with two vigs or something silly like that at some point. It might take me a while to find it but that's what I'm looking for rn

[Aisa]

I swear I saw a game with two vigs or something silly like that at some point. It might take me a while to find it but that's what I'm looking for rn

Looking at completed mini normals be like "ok which of these mods made that crazy game where everyone complained about the setup at the end?"
Was it Umlaut? Datisi? DkKoba?

[Aisa]

OK
this is not the game I was looking for
but here.
A game with three compulsive bodyguards
viewtopic.php?p=13851346#p13851346

RN looks like you were in that game

[Aisa]

UNVOTE:
Not ready to lim anyone yet
I will reply to stuff in a bit

[Aisa]

Hmm ok thinking a bit about Save The Dragons's claim and seeing other people's posts it's more complicated than I thought:

- I don't mind that he claimed the exact same power role as a flipped player, sorry. There have been recent games with multiples of the same Town PR, so I don't think that's necessarily scum indicative.
- I don't think the relevant question is "how common is it to have 2 Town Roleblockers compared to 1 scum Roleblocker?", so much as "how common is it for a Town Roleblocker to claim RB here, vs for scum to claim RB here?". This is an unusual claim from either town or scum.
- I guess there is a tiny possibility STD got inspired to claim RB because either he is RB or one of his teammates is. Maybe he's worried someone will Rolecop him or whatever. Idk, I don't think this would be at the forefront of my mind as scum but everyone's different.
- I think that

if there's some townie who knows what happened to JV's fruit

, they should come forward at this point. And I'm kinda interpreting the fact no one's come forward so far as evidence that there's no such roleblocking townie currently alive in the game.

- I think shaddowez has a point here. The possibilities seem to be:
--- Drew roleblocked JV
--- JV is scum
--- STD is scum
--- JV is town. STD is town. There are 2 town roleblockers AND some other townie who knows what happened to JV's fruit and they haven't said anything yet.
--- JV is town. STD is town. AND at least one scumteam has a roleblocking role, which targeted JV on night 1.
(Not all these are mutually exclusive but at least one of these should be true)
I guess when you look at it this way "JV is scum" or "STD is scum" start looking like very juicy theories

...Am I mad for wanting to flip JV between the two

Argh I told myself I would never try to mech solve a game ever again. CSF, save me before it's too late

[Aisa]

Some players are just a lil crazy (in a good way) and you seem like you fit the archetype

[Aisa]

I’m sorry for any hurt I may have caused by using the word ‘crazy’ and that’s on me.

For more game-related thoughts I’ll be back later today.

[Aisa]

Hey Enchy how much of the game have you read

Separately I feel like I'm entering my old and grouchy mafiascum phase. Anyone relate?

[Aisa]

Hey Enchy how much of the game have you read

Separately I feel like I'm entering my old and grouchy mafiascum phase. Anyone relate?

Who the hell is Enchy

According to my calculations i read 1% of game.

I thought you might react that way, partly why I called you like that ^^
How did you know everyone's claims upon replacing in

[Aisa]

That's what I'm trying to figure out!

Giving fair bit, roleblocking BP claim at N1 is probably not worst decision.

he didn't claim until day 2

Alright, so I'm at work again and will post as able soon.

Also, I'm 2-Shot Bulletproof (don't b*tch to me).

Awaiting to see how Scum respond to the news.

Anyway get your mech straight xxx
RN did claim on day 1

[Aisa]

Like ??
What’s the motivation there? I could claim a GS and a vig. I would have no motive to claim a loyal fv as a wolf

I should clarify this. I think I saw that you retracted this counterargument, but I'll try to start again and explain my view on this a little just so people can see where I'm coming from.

When it comes to scumplay I think there are less gambit-y plays and more gambit-y plays.

An extreme example of something gambit-y would be claiming a guilty on your scum partner. You don't want to do that in most of your scum games for obvious reasons. Yet, as town, you shouldn't believe that anyone who claims a guilty on scum is cleared. If towns as a whole did this on this website, then claiming a guilty on your scum partner would be an easy way to win a game. Once in a blue moon someone who is gambit-y enough shows up and claims a guilty on their scum partner.

Basically, I think your situation is similar. Except you didn't do anything nearly as damaging to scum as getting a partner killed.

In short I guess I'm trying to express that scum choose harder paths for themselves and then argue "if I were scum I wouldn't do this" very often.

Also, STD also claimed something that doesn't make complete sense coming from scum! If I'm choosing who to eliminate between you and STD - which I'm not saying I definitely want to do, I'm pretty confused atm - you both have an unusual claim and you've both used the "if I were scum" argument so...

[Aisa]

STD, there are a couple things I'd be curious to get your view on:
- How much of your scumread on RN on Day 1 was his behaviour, and how much of it was his BP claim?
- Do you think the bulletproof claim makes RN more likely to be scum, or are you just doubtful he actually if bulletproof?
- When did you change your mind on RN being scum and why?

[Aisa]

Dave could you summarise your 1-2 top non-mech-related reads / ideas for me?

[Aisa]

General thought dump:

- aaaa this game
- Was it bob who said the STD wagon seems low-hanging-fruit-ish? Sure, I can see that. The issue is that this game has a lot of players who are similarly difficult to read for me. I have like 2 confident townreads, a few players who are "meh, they can live for now", and no idea on everyone else.
- I think that when I repped in I said I townread TLich. I've changed my mind. It's been this way for a while. What prompted the change of heart was reminding myself of past experiences playing with Lich. They were scum in this marathon game recently. Their tone was pretty good / similar enough to this game, I'd have trouble pinpointing any differences. But I thought they had fairly openwolfy stances. I think the same could be going on in this game.
- Where is Shrek? This slot is falling in my reads fast purely because of their last two pop ins
- JV slot exists aaah

[Aisa]

VOTE: Davesaz
I'll probably just votepark here for now

[Aisa]

The issue is that this game has a lot of players who are similarly difficult to read for me. I have like 2 confident townreads, a few players who are "meh, they can live for now", and no idea on everyone else.

Who are your confident townreads, then?

RN and furtive
Need to run but I can elaborate when I come back if I need to

[Aisa]

Uh okk I'll start from my RN read.

I think RN doesn't like playing scum very much and it shows in his scumgames where his engagement kind of tapers off as the game goes on. Instead his engagement here has ramped up as the game has dwindled

This is also my impression of scum RN. I played with him in mini 2306, and yeah, he didn't seem to like playing scum very much. He just has a completely different spark here. The "you can TRY to elim me but you won't succeed" energy, for example, was something he very much didn't have in 2306.

Could it be that multiball is bolstering his spirits? Maybe a little. But I don't really get the impression that he is approaching the game in an informed way or treating some slots differently, at the moment.

He also hasn't been at all shy or tried to hide in the shadows. I'd expect scum to try to look a little less passionate than he does.

I've also said this about the BP claim:

Rn I think is scum but I can't figure out what N2 STD is if he's scum

But I don't think RN lies about being bullet proof in one game and miraculously gets to be whatever convenient bp he's claiming in the next

Disagree with this take
I was very alarmed initially because until this post I was assuming RN was trueclaiming (I townread RN). It turns out he did fakeclaim BP in the game STD appears to be referencing, Mini Normal 2309. But, despite the fakeclaim, he was town there. So I don't think the BP claim is a reason to scumread RN

[Aisa]

I'm a little more uncertain on furtive and it's a little harder to substantiate. Oh well.

- I really want the following tell to be true: the more furtive jokes about being scum, the less likely he is to be scum. To be clear I also do think this tell may be a little true
- Also like... sometimes I get a vibe that a player is not secretly in a scum PT based on the content and timing of their posts. There are some players who play like a submarine: every 24 hours they come out of their little nest and bless the thread with a single take such as "Aisa seems scummy to me". There are untold depths to their thoughts we will never get to see. This can be because it's just their personality or because they're scum.
Ahem. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that furtive has vibed in the thread at satisfying enough time intervals and with satisfying enough content that I don't think he's part of a secret little club this game

[Aisa]

do you not have any other reasons to townread furtive?

I definitely remember seeing posts here and there that made me think “this is town”.
However explaining that would have required me looking at his iso and hoping I remembered what posts those were

[Aisa]

STD flipping scum doesn't incriminate me. I'm town either way.

But yeah I'd rather vote both CSF and dave. I stated before the STD wagon that I scumread those two and I've voted them.

This is multiball.

Actually I can pick out this as a maybe towny post idk
I kinda townread the confidence. Reads a bit like it’s coming from a place of “yeah, protecting STD is exactly what I am doing because I don’t scumread him as much”
I can try finding other posts later

I suppose my RN read is in fact a tone read. I love dishing out tone reads

Have you also like, looked at my ISO? I wouldn’t be surprised if you did and still wanted more tbh

[Aisa]

lich is like, very likely town. bbm and csf are also probably town.

Why do you think Lich is town?

CSF seems a hair above null to me, I’ve just been burned too many times to townread her more than that

[Aisa]

lich is like, very likely town. bbm and csf are also probably town.

Why do you think Lich is town?

CSF seems a hair above null to me, I’ve just been burned too many times to townread her more than that

I think that the sheer dedication to just utterly uncharismatically flying at full speed into the face of the common consensus (and, honestly, what I'd regard as common sense (which is probably foolish in a social game)) takes a very rare scum skillet

and like look, Lich has a scumgame and is definitely not a bad scum player

I just think that they too often make decisions which look like trying to solve a game and assert real thoughts which lack cognitive dissonance

they seem at all turns exactly like someone very very different from me solving a game of mafia and it is driving me to drink but I'm pretty sure its town

This was helpful, I think I townread TLich a bit now. Day-to-day it was easy to dismiss the posts Lich made as fakeable, but seeing all the posts at once in their ISO you're right.

it's just post after post after post of what look like attempts to solve.
and exactly as you said, if any portion of it is fake it's kind of impressive they still show up to the thread every day and keep doing exactly what they've been doing for the past month

im slowly but surely slinking into my lowercase no punctuation era

[Aisa]

Hey, are 'bah' posts allowed any more?

They're rare. I'd say assume they're not allowed unless the moderator specifically allows them.
Also see rule 5 under "prohibited actions".

[Aisa]

Your reply earlier implies you

know

that RN's BP claim is true. Care to comment on that interpretation of what you said?

Pedit: I took that as a joke. TBH I take almost any d1 claim as a joke.

This was directed at Enchant. Don't think I've seen an answer. Can't tell if it's direct evasion or not. If I look at the totality of the ISO I'm not getting a town vibe there.

Furtive, I think you're town (or at least more likely than not given it's MB) but your tunnel is kinda annoying. I'm not going to pop off a read list on command. For the most part, there is meaning in the things I say. I'm almost, but not quite, incapable of just joking around. If you have trouble interpreting what the meaning is, that's an area of potential growth.

TL has b3en sheeping the whole game. At the first sight of someone disliking an idea it gets retracted immediately. This is the first one that

I have noticed

that seems original

to me

.

The premise behind the wagon redirection is

if a scum flip then...

. It's meaningless if STD is town. I think it is still worthwhile to comment on that even though my guess is STD town.

STD saying rb target on RN is town indicative (if true claim) because scum might fake claim BP in a MB game. Scum has no good reason to claim RB until a tpr complains, and 5hen as an oops claim.

Wow writing this on tablet is painful.

Feel free to ask stuff. Unlike many in this game I won't mind. Though it's bedtime so be prepared to wait a bit.

I feel like these posts are a bit towny...?
Going completely off tone, yes

[Aisa]

VOTE: Snivy
shrugs
some wim would be nice I just don't have it right now

[Aisa]

So I'm going to make it worse by turning 5-3 wagons into 4-4 wagons

[Aisa]

Thoughts on the current wagons:

STD:
Slightly towny things he's done in my eyes are the RB claim and his general play around that time
However none of it seems strictly outside his scum range

Dave:
Think I kinda suddenly townread this a bit more than the other two wagons

Snivy:
I have no read whatsoever on this slot

[Aisa]

Snivy feels the same from other town games I've seen him in. Is there more to this besides "he was on both Hu Tao and STD wagons"?

For me it's literally "I don't currently townread him and he's already a wagon"

What did dave do to change your read there?

Aah now that I have to look at his posts again I'm second-guessing myself. But let's take this interaction as an example:

Spoiler:

You've started to make some effort at solving but the reasoning doesn't really track with me

Why do you think STD could be town from roleblocking RN N1?

Starting to townread TL for 5050 being novel is strange when he's been spitting out takes from left field the whole game

I'm not sure what town motivation there is to intentionally stall out the Save The Dragons wagon by moving a vote from that wagon to the davesaz counterwagon

Noting that CSF's vote fits this profile, and their vote onto STD doesn't seem to have any reason either. In fact, I'm generally not seeing any drive behind CSF's play, it seems fairly unguided and random. That's from a quick skim so if I'm wrong please provide references.

I kinda doubt that STD flips scum after revisiting the timing of d1 (implied in my earlier posts btw), but this is good info anyway.

People are "intentionally stalling out" the Save the Dragons wagon because they don't think he's flipping scum. The reasoning behind TL's post doesn't make sense to me, but he's been posting has been like this for like the whole game so I'm willing to chalk it up to us not being able to see eye to eye. but your posting feels more measured and logical, so for you to piggyback off this post feels bad to me

TL has b3en sheeping the whole game. At the first sight of someone disliking an idea it gets retracted immediately. This is the first one that

I have noticed

that seems original

to me

.

The premise behind the wagon redirection is

if a scum flip then...

. It's meaningless if STD is town. I think it is still worthwhile to comment on that even though my guess is STD town.

STD saying rb target on RN is town indicative (if true claim) because scum might fake claim BP in a MB game. Scum has no good reason to claim RB until a tpr complains, and 5hen as an oops claim.

Wow writing this on tablet is painful.

Feel free to ask stuff. Unlike many in this game I won't mind. Though it's bedtime so be prepared to wait a bit.

I think I just tend to townread people who seem to be confidently charting their own way through a game. He's not doing much but at least owning the fact he isn't doing much. I like the "the first one

I have noticed

that seems original

to me

."

btf this is not particularly hard to do as scum if you make a point of it. The question is, would he make a point of doing this? I have no idea

I'd be interested in what you thought of 5129, CSF

[Aisa]

Dave had a slight push against RN early on

If you think my push is slight, please recalibrate your expectations.
I'm not one of those people who posts every 10-20 minutes yelling about people joining me.
I made my point succinctly and clearly. A verifiable full BP is so close to a guaranteed town win (or worst case tie) that I don't think it would be balanced. Suppose JV sends their loyal fruit to RN, and RN's claim is true.
I think RN is lying, plain and simple.

@Dave

what do you think of my post on RN's bulletproof claim:

Rn I think is scum but I can't figure out what N2 STD is if he's scum

But I don't think RN lies about being bullet proof in one game and miraculously gets to be whatever convenient bp he's claiming in the next

Disagree with this take
I was very alarmed initially because until this post I was assuming RN was trueclaiming (I townread RN). It turns out he did fakeclaim BP in the game STD appears to be referencing, Mini Normal 2309. But, despite the fakeclaim, he was town there. So I don't think the BP claim is a reason to scumread RN

[Aisa]

Thanks for replacing in gob

Okay I have changed my mind.

Cat Scratch Fever, Aisa, BBMolla, the worst,

I think we lynch in between these people today.

Explain how you got here from 5202?

Spoiler:

There are mafia on Psyche's wagon again, as they were town and I doubt all maf are on hu or the worst. Hu Tao's slot also needs to be checked like ZZZX.

there are a lot of replacements but it looks like Save The Dragons, Naerys, ZZZX, TemporalLich, furtiveglance, davesaz, camel are all the people who were on both wagons.

The townies among you must know that you've been entirely misled this entire game (two townies were lynched Day 1 and 2 and nobody is checking the C-wagons that had actual potential). Among the names I listed there are probably 2-3 mafia members from either team.

It seems like you think people on Hu Tao wagon yesterday were scummier than the Psyche wagon, why?

I think both wagons had wolves, but the second one of Cat Scratch Fever, Aisa, BBMolla, the worst seems like it has at least 1 maybe 2 wolves so its a safer bet as PoE.

Ok. But why does it seem like the second wagon had at least 1 or 2 wolves?

[Aisa]

Thanks for replacing in gob

Okay I have changed my mind.

Cat Scratch Fever, Aisa, BBMolla, the worst,

I think we lynch in between these people today.

Explain how you got here from 5202?

Spoiler:

There are mafia on Psyche's wagon again, as they were town and I doubt all maf are on hu or the worst. Hu Tao's slot also needs to be checked like ZZZX.

there are a lot of replacements but it looks like Save The Dragons, Naerys, ZZZX, TemporalLich, furtiveglance, davesaz, camel are all the people who were on both wagons.

The townies among you must know that you've been entirely misled this entire game (two townies were lynched Day 1 and 2 and nobody is checking the C-wagons that had actual potential). Among the names I listed there are probably 2-3 mafia members from either team.

It seems like you think people on Hu Tao wagon yesterday were scummier than the Psyche wagon, why?

I think both wagons had wolves, but the second one of Cat Scratch Fever, Aisa, BBMolla, the worst seems like it has at least 1 maybe 2 wolves so its a safer bet as PoE.

Ok. But why does it seem like the second wagon had at least 1 or 2 wolves?

Because Flavor and Psyche died and were both town. And mechanically there is most likely one wolf on that c-wagon, unless you want to argue that it's pure.

I am asking why you think that "mechanically" there is one wolf on that wagon, or why you think it's unreasonable to argue that it's pure

[Aisa]

Hello everyone
I see we're all feeling extremely enthusiastic about the current wagons, huh

[Aisa]

just reviewed pisskop's ISO to remind myself of why they're voting STD and it's tragic :')

Spoiler: fluff

Yeah Im in the boat of this claim make STD more likely to flip scum

The whole ISO is a flaming bag.

That claim is just icing afaic

They start out well with a lot conviction

I absolutely hate STDs claim and his NAs

Ive already speculated about any blocking role left, and its my opinion that with a complex vig and the failed actions we have a scum blocker. Most likely 2 since I assume the teams are balanced against the other.

They keep campaigning for an STD death. This is on the 27th of September in my time zone

Im so gonna push the envelope when/if I get back to modding

Maybe a hood game of some kind

do you know what, loyal vig

That's what I'm gonna put my game

On the 28th they clearly decided they needed a bit of a change and started talking about their modding ambitions

I have nothing to add

...Then this is one of their few contributions on the 29th
I think this has been their mood for the past three days

[Aisa]

Oh yeah I'm not accusing you of not putting in enough effort. I'm literally just noting that you seem to not be enjoying the wait
Are you worried at all that STD won't be the elimination today?

[Aisa]

There seem to be a few players in this game who like VCA or wagonomics. Sorry bob for lumping them in together, I don't completely understand the difference. For that matter, I don't really understand VCA. This makes it hard to engage with players when they say "VCA is the reason for my read". That could be true, that could be false, I would not know the difference.

But if there's anyone out there who likes VCA and is also very patient and can deal with all my questions I think it would be interesting to talk about it

In completely unrelated news:
VOTE: gob
None of the current three major wagons inspire me sorry

[Aisa]

I guess I'd probably go STD over Dave/cCS if it came down to it, purely so the game can move forward
This as much a note to self as to anyone else, so I hopefully won't have to litigate this again in my brain in 24/48 hours

[Aisa]

Desperate times call for desperate measures

[Aisa]

Thanks for replacing in gob

Okay I have changed my mind.

Cat Scratch Fever, Aisa, BBMolla, the worst,

I think we lynch in between these people today.

Explain how you got here from 5202?

Spoiler:

There are mafia on Psyche's wagon again, as they were town and I doubt all maf are on hu or the worst. Hu Tao's slot also needs to be checked like ZZZX.

there are a lot of replacements but it looks like Save The Dragons, Naerys, ZZZX, TemporalLich, furtiveglance, davesaz, camel are all the people who were on both wagons.

The townies among you must know that you've been entirely misled this entire game (two townies were lynched Day 1 and 2 and nobody is checking the C-wagons that had actual potential). Among the names I listed there are probably 2-3 mafia members from either team.

It seems like you think people on Hu Tao wagon yesterday were scummier than the Psyche wagon, why?

I think both wagons had wolves, but the second one of Cat Scratch Fever, Aisa, BBMolla, the worst seems like it has at least 1 maybe 2 wolves so its a safer bet as PoE.

Ok. But why does it seem like the second wagon had at least 1 or 2 wolves?

Because Flavor and Psyche died and were both town. And mechanically there is most likely one wolf on that c-wagon, unless you want to argue that it's pure.

I am asking why you think that "mechanically" there is one wolf on that wagon, or why you think it's unreasonable to argue that it's pure

It's not unreasonable but you'd have to make the argument. Most likely there is a wolf on the c-wagon since the main wagon was town and its unreasonable to think mafia would put all their eggs in one basket (all voting one person) and its even more unreasonable when you factor in multiple teams.

I actually didn't hate this reply to me but it's nowhere near inaccessible-to-mafia rocket science so it doesn't do that much to change my overall read on this slot, sorry

[Aisa]

Though gob if you want to talk about how you're finding replacing into the game I'm down


...this seems like enough posting for today. Bye

[Aisa]

Ooh speaking of which

enchant looks like theyre bussing std

I was going to piggyback off this post and say: I don't know if STD is scum
But if STD and Enchant were in a team I would fully expect Enchant to be dissing STD's claim exactly like he's done

[Aisa]

There seem to be a few players in this game who like VCA or wagonomics. Sorry bob for lumping them in together, I don't completely understand the difference. For that matter, I don't really understand VCA. This makes it hard to engage with players when they say "VCA is the reason for my read". That could be true, that could be false, I would not know the difference.

But if there's anyone out there who likes VCA and is also very patient and can deal with all my questions I think it would be interesting to talk about it

In completely unrelated news:
VOTE: gob
None of the current three major wagons inspire me sorry

I am willing to answer your questions related to VCA. Basically it all comes down to the idea that mislunch wagon's have at least one wolf on them, and you can pin the entire wolf team through their votes. Because at the end of the day, the wolves

have

to vote a certain way to win (ie preserving enough of their team)

Ooh, fun, thanks for taking me up on my request!
I guess I agree with the statement "wolves have to vote in certain ways to not lose the game". I guess I don't always agree with the conclusions people draw after that.

For example, I'm still not completely sure about the conclusions you've drawn from the final Day 2 VC:

Spoiler:

Day 2 VC 7:

Psyche (11 [ELIMINATED]): Random Nurse, pisskop, JacksonVirgo, furtiveglance, Naerys, TemporalLich, bob3141, davesaz, Hu Tao, camelCasedSnivy, Save the Dragons
Hu Tao (6): Cat Scratch Fever, Aisa, BBMolla, the worst, Flavor Leaf, Psyche
the worst (1): Shrek

Not voting (2): ZZZX, shaddowez

There are mafia on Psyche's wagon again, as they were town and I doubt all maf are on hu or the worst. Hu Tao's slot also needs to be checked like ZZZX.

there are a lot of replacements but it looks like Save The Dragons, Naerys, ZZZX, TemporalLich, furtiveglance, davesaz, camel are all the people who were on both wagons.

The townies among you must know that you've been entirely misled this entire game (two townies were lynched Day 1 and 2 and nobody is checking the C-wagons that had actual potential). Among the names I listed there are probably 2-3 mafia members from either team.

I get that you thought that not all mafia would be on Psyche. Outside the Psyche wagon, is there a reason you think mafia is more likely to be in the Hu Tao voters than in the slots that weren't voting at the end of the day?

I guess I'm also curious that you have fairly original reads - Cat Scratch Fever, Aisa, BBMolla, the worst - none of these are slots that look super likely to be today's elimination at this point, and you're not pushing them particularly strongly. Do you think you'll be able to get your preferred elimination today?

Though gob if you want to talk about how you're finding replacing into the game I'm down


...this seems like enough posting for today. Bye

Not sure what you're asking here

I just meant that as a generic "feel free to spitball thoughts at me if you want"

---

You know nothing about me then

Sounds about right tbf

[Aisa]

[...]
What do you think about a ZZZX or Shadowez vote?

Well ok I wanted to finish writing my post but while I was writing it I did notice you were hinting at scumreading some of the people who were not voting at the end of D2

[Aisa]

To be completely honest, I have never VCA'd in a multiball game before. I am still confident it works (people have done it before) though. I do think there is a wolf among the four I listed because of VCA. I can explain more in detail how it works, if you really want. Because it's more so a mechanical (as in, always 100% of the time no exceptions) way of playing the game, as in it's always correct. Now if mafia knows counter-play they can make a wide PoE off the wagons, or strategically bus etc, but the essence is that the conclusions from VCA are always correct. It' pulls away a lot from the game though, and I don't want to come off as patronizing. And I could always be totally wrong.

Anyway, I think right now shaddowez is almost certainly mafia. They were off the main wagons day 1, and they didn't even vote yesterday. I'll see what they have to say but this is one of those situations where it's like 100%. There is no possible explanation why someone would be off not voting Day 2 unless they had TMI and knew both top wagons were town.

Feels like it's not quite literally always correct. But I could possibly get behind a slightly weaker version of the claim, maybe something like "if scum are not actively trying to counteract VCA then they tend to vote in predictable ways". Sure that sounds possible I guess.

I would enjoy it if you explained some aspect of it in more detail.

Taking a cue from Dave, you're correct about shaddowez not voting at the end of D2. But to be completely precise, they were voting at one point during Day 2, from this post:
viewtopic.php?p=13917488#p13917488

[...]
What do you think about a ZZZX or Shadowez vote?

Well ok I wanted to finish writing my post but while I was writing it I did notice you were hinting at scumreading some of the people who were not voting at the end of D2

Haven't even read that lol.

No, literally
ZXXX and shaddowez were not voting in the final day 2 VC, the one you quoted. That must be where you got your interest in those slots from?

[Aisa]

Yea that is where I derived my read. They weren't voting at the EoD2. I haven't read anything from before I replaced in, to be frank. It would be useful if there was a way to see if someone was VLA'd for that votecount (like a * next to their name for every VC they are VLA'd for)

Is there anyone else who has been absent in EoD during this game?

Couldn't tell you off the top of my head, sorry
Anyway clearly we are not doing this vote today nor do I want it atp UNVOTE: gob

[Aisa]

VOTE: STD
STD is at E-2

Would also go for Naerys if there's enough interest to build up a wagon and get a claim from her with some time left in the deadline. Would be a pretty chaotic affair though

[Aisa]

What an absolute rollercoaster of a game. I enjoyed being part of the ride and seeing y'all play after I was dead.

[Aisa]

And good work town nailing some of the last few scums.

and and I liked the setup!