Toriel's Patience (end)

[Mandate]

Like pause for a moment

There are a ton of people who think Ari is town for the belligerence towards me

They aren't the core townblock members but in a spare gameplan Ari is easily a d3/d4 spare if say we kill Mandate and Taly and spare Sakura and Keyleth or some variation of the same names

Why wouldn't Beeboy Merlyn Ari +1 scum hypothetically spare Aristeia?

But anyway this is kinda academic at this point I don't think arguing this serves any purpose besides making me feel smart


Well Shirou who else is scum is the first question

[Lazy Shirou]

i think Ari may be scum mostly by PoE at this point

my unique hesitances on that perspective are BE/Dunn

p-edit: ye it may be Ari, i'm just expressing that my reason for thinking so is different

[Lazy Shirou]

well, half-different

you also were closing on her by PoE

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Meuh

[Mandate]

I haven't townread Dunn. I think he's fine. I don't think I have strong townvibes there I just think his play makes zero fucking sense on any of the teams he'd be scum on but is relatively reasonable normal boring ish townplay in general

It's hard to want to scumread him, like if he's scum here I don't think he played amazing but it would make him a very very strong scum player simply for how coherently he played a difficult position to play

[Dannflor]

I am Caught Up officially

probably not world record pace

[Mandate]

Gray splits get the fuck outta here

[implosion]

Yeah, because this game has been weird with scum being near goddamn invisible and no one being able to agree on anything.

The feeling that scum are "near goddamn invisible" is interesting; there are plenty of games on this site where, say, there are consensus miseliminations on days one and two. In those games, in retrospect, it turns out that scum had been "nearly invisible" early on.

In that sense I'm not really

worried

per se about the fact that there's a generally low level of suspicion being thrown around, it makes the game awkward to play but ultimately we are going to eliminate someone and maybe it'll be right and maybe it'll be wrong, just like any other mafia game.

Then I turn around and see that the players who alt guessed me are by and large unwilling to commit townreads on me even though by any ordinary standard I've obvtowned like crazy

For what it's worth, and I don't want to derail the game by going down this path a lot but I do want to say something here just because I think I understand where you're coming from with this sentiment.

I understand the frustration, and I am really tempted to write paragraphs here, but I just want to say I'm still hard townreading you. Perception in mafia isn't a monolith. People interpret things differently.

I don't think Ari picks a fight with you as scum, because as scum it's unlikely to make a difference.

I don't really agree here. Ari's fight with Mandate feels like a natural outcropping of things to me and I feel like it's a relatively natural direction for her to go in if she is scum. I do think it's not like, an especially practical thing to do as scum probably but I think she still does it sometimes here

I'm worried about Brown Eyes :/

I think this is a town post. I think it's a post scum are probably afraid especially in this particular way to make because it'd look like trying to bring a townread lurker back into the lim pool

[Isis]

Seeking replacement for Mandate

[Dannflor]

[implosion]

sad.

idk i feel like Ari has to play a lot harder here to have a chance of winning as scum. There are so many towny slots and in a hypothetical meuh/ali world neither of them are getting spared at this rate

What exactly does playing harder here mean to you?

[implosion]

I will say, I essentially have no issues with Mandate's solve but obviously I'm not as confident of a player as Mandate. But I do think it's a coherently possible scumteam.

[Dannflor]

being a bit more obvious in her pushes, taking up more thread presence

she is deliberately holding back right now and playing more reserved

and if she's like the primary scum win condition that feels counter intuitive to me

if i was in her position as scum in a team like ari/meuh/ali I would feel a lot of pressure to carry

[Lazy Shirou]

Seeking replacement for Mandate

[Sakura Hana]

Seeking replacement for Mandate

sigh

And I was happy to finally play with you again.

[implosion]

She has been a bit ancillary a lot of the time in this game but (1) we're still less than a week in, and (2) she usually has more thread presence (in the sense that I think you're using the phrase) than she currently does when she's town as well.

To be completely frank, I think it's hard to really dive into the mindset of how scum will be thinking about this game in regards to things like how they intend to win or who needs to carry. I think this setup at a glance looks like it'd

feel

absolutely brutal to play as scum in the early game. Keep in mind that if we go spare route, the EV is maybe something around 50% but like, we

will

have to reckon with a 3:4 or 2:3 gamestate at some point. I think in many ways it makes lots of sense for scum to keep a low profile early; they're eventually going to have much better numbers compared to the town and if they've been too townie but haven't been spared it might get suspicious for them. I think it's entirely possible that the scum mindset here is just "don't get limmed d1-2, then take control of things after a couple spares". They don't need to be the towniest person, or explicitly even in the top 4 (spare dunn, then spare-nk-spare-nk gets rid of the towniest 4 people), to win this game.

[implosion]

(this is assuming we mislim d1-2 i guess, but this is also with the assumption that a big part of the scum mindset is to get through d1-2)

[Isis]

Aristeia is being replaced

[Lazy Shirou]

Aristeia is being replaced

[Lazy Shirou]

This is sadge

I was happy to play again with both of them

[Lazy Shirou]

I didn't want to be town leader here I was hoping I could townread one of them and let them drive the game

Taly u are up

Officially promoted to thread captain, we're waiting ur orders

[Dannflor]

i was very happy this game seemed to be quite non-toxic despite the "stacked" player list and now i am sad

but glad ari and mandate can do whatever they need for their health

[Taly]

Uh, kill someone that's not in

Beeboy/Dunn/Mandate slot/Ari slot/Sakura/Keyleth

or counter this with grievances

Also give a PoE for D1 and we need to document a chain of it.

But also, damn. I'd find a GIF to liven things up but I'm not at a computer.

[Isis]

Ydrasse replaces Mandate

[Ydrasse]

yippee