Toriel's Patience (end)

[Taly]

im gonna be honest taly i have not understood for one second this entire game why you suspect me

Tbf have I done anything that is readily understandable to most people? That's the impression I'm getting from this playerlist.

[Freedom]

unsure if freedom wanted to be outed or not

Technically I already outed my main in Ceph's NQNM II after I mainslipped so I don't care too much.
Given, I do have slightly different playstyles between my main and this alt.

[Taly]

So you are

Rh9

?

[Taly]

I guess that defeats the purpose nevermind

[Freedom]

So you are

Rh9

?

Yeah.

[Taly]

I wish people were more liberal with their voting. It's hard to know where people stand with the voteparking.

VOTE: Alisae

I'm trying to reevaluate

implo

I'm just kind of frustrated with their approach toward my slot.

I wish

Dunn

was more present because I disagree with most of their original takes and it feels like they've stagnated, I can't say they've changed in their reads the last 50 pages.

I feel that

Meuh

has done (likely unintentional) AtE because I want to townread their exasperation at being widely scumread and

Merlyn

had a point about them having a wild take, it just feels that progression has been unnatural and

Meuh

has done little else but stick on

implosion

which makes it less realistic to me.

My opinion has faded with

Shirou

and I'm not sure how to resuscitate that.

Kind of wished

beeboy

had better WIM and was around more but I think I know why they're demotivated but that's already been resolved.

Alisae

, I need more data points there. Just too easy to see a scum POV looking at the lack of detailed content.

[Taly]

I honestly townread

Dann

for his patience on me lmao

[Taly]

Beeboy
Sannflor
Sakura Hana
Ydrasse
Random Nurse
Dunnstral
Keyleth

People I either strongly townread or do not want in my PoE D1

implosion

has been upgraded to My Object of Intense Focus

[Taly]

implo, I think is town because I'm not getting that vibe in his ISO that I got from reading that Coalition game.

Describe this further than you have already?

I'm "unimpressed" with Meuh posts so far, nothing that makes me think she's town

She can argue it's for "nudging" but voting a slot she was previously townreading rather than one of the people in her PoE is just whacky to me

Feels like she's trying to explore wagon options

Happy keeping my vote there at the moment

This is actually a good point.

I don't think

Meuh

explicitly had

Implosion[/b[ is town in their original readslist when I first voted them, it was null.

Shirou's

recapitulation is not accurate.

actually i think freedoms intro is curious in a wolfy way because he arrives and asserts dunn as town alongside implo but then the focus is on implo and meuh. i can think of one reason why it wouldn’t be wolfy but @freedom why is dunn town? and why is my slot wolf?

Your slot is nullish for me but I haven't been having any definitive SRs so I haven't unvoted yet.
And re: Dunn, it's mainly that I've liked his ISO.

I'm still not satisfied with this post because it feels like your read on

Ydrasse

is uncritical and/or convenient.

[Taly]

meuh

do you actually have reads? i see a lot of explaining on your end that im not getting any defintiive stance from

Mandate hardest town read
Merlyn, Dunn, you, Sakura, also town
Dann, Ari, Shirou, Key, Implo, I've absorbed some of their posting but don't have a good grasp there
Brown Eyes, Alisae and Beeboy exist I think?

bonk

Having a low post count is not a good reason to be suspecting 3 people, and only suspecting those people

I'm not suspecting them, they're just there. I'm scumreading nobody

So your reads are:
Town
also Town
Null
also Null

Yes
The nulls are more "unsorted" than null though

[Taly]

I think the fact that the PoE is almost universal implies that the slots with most heat until

Alisae

are likely town

beeboy/implo

In this world I have hard time conceptualizing that

meuh/implo

are both town as

Freedom

posits for all the reasons I've mentioned at some point on

meuh's

case feeling as though it can be fabricated.

It does make me second guess

Ali

-scum but I'm not doing the whole "Oh wait *unvotes immediately*" bullshit again

[Dunnstral]

Gonna start with the pre-implosion case stuff and then move onto the implosion case stuff, there's three things I didn't like one of which was fairly severe but I was kinda ignoring it because the slot seemed not like the best odds of flipping scum otherwise.

This doesn't help Sakura as a wolf though, does it?

what doesn't

If you're a wolf you want to be townread so you go over or push some wrong villagers but Sakura is just, doing neither? Unless that's the point to get townread but that's wifom ya know?

This feels kind of reductive? Wolves post to have thread presence, to be engaged in the game, to have fun... pushing agenda is nice but not every single wolf post is anchored on that and not every wolf post has deep and complex connotations. Wolves absolutely just post random thoughts to look more engaged, which tend to make you look more townie (or at the very least less appealing to lim), and nothing in Sakura's posting indicates that she isn't

trying

to be townread. Wraps around to the classic "if I'm a wolf, how come I'm not being townread?" argument, as if getting townread is this guaranteed thing to gain with certain posts rather than something that wolves fail at a bunch.

So a lot of people called this a good post and I can see why but I think empirically this is a post that comes from scum more of the time. I am confident this was empirically true, I don't know if that's changed, but I want to point that out there. It also exists in the space of "attacking people getting townread without obviously being anti townblock".

Never thought I'd be playing a game with town Dunnstral, but I think it's finally happening!

This is just very performative and strange! Like I know that Meuh is a performative player but this particular post set me off pretty hard at the time and every time I've reread I've had to stop for a while and think about this one.

Dear Meuh, you spend two of the few content posts you've arguing against Sakura and in the first "perplexed" sounds like it has a negative connotation, but by the end...you find her townie?

Hmmmm

Were you planning to betray me again?!

VOTE: Meuh

The word “perplexed” is deliberate there, it’s negative in terms of her ideas, that seem out there to me, but not her actual alignment.
I argue against

Keyleth’s argument

(which was bad regardless of Sakura’s alignment), then took a look at the ISO and got vague townvibes
You’re imagining implications for reads from the surface of my posting and not the actual thought process I have, there’s no read on Sakura that I actually voice before I agree with Ari, you’re drawing that line, and you’re wrong for doing that! Raises your scum equity a bunch cause I think you’re capable of more substantial reads, was wondering who would react when I agreed with Ari on Sakura, but this is sad… :(

Now here's the one that I actually found very off.

I think that Meuh's argument is actually objectively correct here. She said someone was, basically, weird. She then turned around and townread them. Which is fine I think that is a good progression that can easily come from town. What really stands out about this is the lack of teeth with regards to Shirou. She takes this bizarre middle ground where she calls him wrong, says he's imagining things, then calls him more equity scum because "he's capable of more substantial reads". All of this doesn't sit right at all, I think that if Meuh is town she is neither so performative about explaining what she was ""actually thinking"" and rather forces Shirou to justify his own position nor so wishy washy with regards to Shirou. I think that ending this by saying that it raises his scum equity a bunch without being willing to vote him is bizarre. I think that Meuh is factually not interested in solving Shirou by the way she played it but is also strangely defensive and I get big scum caught for wrong reasons / cross bus vibes from all of this.

Gut from pages 1-4 is Dann town (though I think I remember seeing that's someone consensus?)

I think sakura is already (widely?) townread but this cements it pretty hard for me sort of in the vein of the philosophy that I think Shirou mentioned earlier of trying to read people off a few key posts, which I think I kind of agree with or at least am interested in thinking about as a philosophy of forum mafia.

Anyone else find this scummy? Implo invoking how much a player is already being townread/thread consensus on an issue when posting his take on it is kind of off to me. It's not really a consideration I have when posting reads as town. It comes more from scum thinking about the optics and the ramifications of their read than a townie just dropping some thoughts. :eek:

Idk!
Idk. This is very fake and performative. I don't know what else to say about it. I don't think this is how town!Meuh presents thoughts like this if she has them. The content itself is like, milquetoast but the presentation pings me like mad.

Yeah I'm looking at Implo's ISO and there's nothing town indicative there! :o :o :o
The more substantial reads are townreads that are just really easy to make from an informed perspective. I don't think any of said townreads are pushing boundaries to an extent where I think Implo is particularly trying to sort people
The scumreads are just kind of boring and weak? Implo has little actual insight on it, I think the most substantial scum argument so far is the one against me which is super weak
There's just nothing there that actually indicates Implo thinking about the game like a townie

More fake performative etc.

More importantly is the phrasing of the scumreads. She says it's "easy to make from an informed perspective". Even ignoring the weird question of what that is even supposed to mean, the case is basically that Implosions townreads are all generally townread and his scumreads are weak. Which, well, sure. But this case is applicable to at least half of the lobby and it's something we're talking about constantly. It also caps off with "nothing actually indicates Implosion thinking of this game like a townie" which again like the earlier thing she isn't saying Implosion is scum she's saying there's no evidence Implosion is town and I verified this is not something that she does as a meta thing.

Alright, so most of this post is saying that Meuh is being performative. I read over the same posts and I simply do not see it as performative.

[Taly]

I don't think

meuh

fits too well with having the most heat, more like a counter because I initially pinged them, then

dann/implo/beeboy

came up until suspicion on

meuh

grew from my understanding

Dann

wagon didn't go anywhere and I think that's become a consensus aside from

Alisae's

Counter push.

((Need to review who initiated the voting 1v1 here to fact check this statement))

[Dunnstral]

I think Meuh has had steady pressure on them through this day phase by several players. There are a lot of people who have them in the bottom 1/4th of their reads.

[Taly]

I'm more curious about why you think Keyleth is likely scum here, and I find that you're making scumreads quite quickly which is of note.

her tone feels a little performative in terms of expressing excitement but nervousness over and over again but i just realized while writing this that that might be an attempt to roleplay as the character keyleth

the main thing is the focus on posting and asking questions about things related to the setup or things that aren't related to anyone's alignment at all

clarifying a joke in 39

asking why you bold usernames in 47

setup talk in 52 and 63

71 feels like a question for a sake of question and not an attempt to sort me especially given there was no follow up thoughts about my alignment after i answered

i would just expect a town entrance to include something about someone's alignment before 89

keyleth is posting a lot but that hasn't really translated into approaching the game in a towny way

VOTE: Dannflor
Way too strong of a push for how early this post is into the game

also

VOTE: alisae

I'd just like to kill alisae now

[Taly]

I think Meuh has had steady pressure on them through this day phase by several players. There are a lot of people who have them in the bottom 1/4th of their reads.

Please tell me you don't scumread

beeboy

anymore because I don't quite get it atp

[Taly]

1677 is the ref for my townread there

[Dunnstral]

Also like as a general rule I'm not saying never but town rarely write things like all the stuff Meuh wrote about the metaphor of the seeds and the watering and the sprouting, it happens on rare occasions but combined with everything else I think she is just big scums and I feel bad because she's been calling me hard town all game and unironically I don't think my mental is good for voting on people who townread me. I wish my scumreads would just all call me scum so I could feel better about it but yeah I think that in a lobby with very few people that are actually very scummy Meuh is kinda really really scummy and an outlier and is the first person that I've felt like ok we should Lim her today

This seems like a playstyle thing.

I don't think any Implo has said is out of his scumrange. I think the only way I will be able to catch him as scum is if we both make it to later in the game and I can see any inconsistencies in the things he said. I really, really question anyone townreading him so casually.

5 people I'd townbin are Shirou, Meuh, Beeboy, Ari, Keyleth.

These reads are kind of spicy

[Taly]

I think Meuh has had steady pressure on them through this day phase by several players. There are a lot of people who have them in the bottom 1/4th of their reads.

FWIW, I don't scumread her for being performative, I scumread her because their push on

implosion

doesn't seem natural, but you and

Merlyn

have a different take on that.

[Dunnstral]

Well like I said earlier. I don't think she is mafia but if we're sparing and I'm the day 3 spare I won't be able to make you folks spare her. So I'd concede that elimination because otherwise it would be a point of contention without benefit, other than the chance for us to eliminate someone else. And yes maybe I am just misreading her, I'm not 100%.

Of course my preference is still to eliminate elsewhere. Beeboy is not a big scumread they are just sort of "meh" in a lobby where I am townreading too many players.

[Taly]

How do you feel about

Alisae

,

Shirou

,

Dann

, and

Freedom/Merlyn

?

[Dunnstral]

From where I've read up to:

Alisae still doesn't have posts
Shirou I think town
Dann I am leaning town on them now
Merlyn I liked some of their posts so leaning town there too

[Sakura Hana]

I feel like after the replacements my WIM took a big hit, which caused me to get stuck i feel like i'm reading things and nothing's sticking, i don't even know what to make of Alisae's reply to me.

[Alisae]

Sakura i think if you were mafia you probably would have voted me and made some shit up about how I am TMI'ing you town or something

[Dannflor]

do you still scum read implosion, sakura