@Kyouko, as I believe you have said before that you felt confident identifying Gamma Emerald as Mafia, I'm curious to know your thoughts on this? Do you agree with this assessment?In post 196, Elements wrote:You felt a lot more "look at me! I'm here to have fun!" In your entrance than I remember you feeling in other games I've played with youIn post 193, Gamma Emerald wrote:Okay. What similarities did you see?In post 190, Elements wrote:Skimmed Gamma's iso from open 891 and then reread its iso from this gameIn post 188, Cobblerfone wrote:In post 137, Elements wrote: I don't think Gamma is a good voteWhat changed your mind on her between these two posts?
Open 893 - 09:12 - Postgame
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DragonEater70 He/HimJack of All TradesHe/Him
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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I looked at 891 and saw Gamma replaced in, and if I recall correctly she replaced in fairly late in the game. Seems flawed to try to compare these two, and maybe lazy to only compare one game. When I do this sort of thing as town I go through pages of ego and open every game and compare every entrance first to determine if the player has an AI entrance and then to compare it to the entrance in this game. This comparison is shallow and holds no value to me, but I'm not going to hold everyone to my standard of meta-diving.
I do think this is something you can catch scum on more frequently than you might think and I don't think scum!Gamma avoids getting caught in this way, in fact I may have caught her this way before, but I also find Gamma's reactions in 193 and 197 +town for her.P,Polarized!I,Intelligent!N,Never wrong!K,Kyouko!
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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so in summary, Elements' heart is in the right place, but the execution is flawed and I remain unconvincedP,Polarized!I,Intelligent!N,Never wrong!K,Kyouko!
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Puffalicious TheyTownieThey
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This post from Thomith looks like a post only town would say and I am leaning town on him for this. I said earlier I was getting town vibes from Kyouko and I am leaning town on both of them right now.In post 178, Thomith wrote: When rereading I just realised something I did not notice before.
I fully only thought there were like 2 or 3 of us questioning Puff about post 30, but on a reread it seems like it was over half the playerlist in the entire game that was questioning the slot (Me, Gamma Emerald, Cobblerfone, Elements, Mizuki, Kyouko) either directly on post 30, or on other things after it became clear that the Puff slot had gained a lot of attention. That definitely gives me vibes that Puff could very feasibly just be Town, and there was at least one Mafia jumping on that seemingly easy train of thought/suspicion.
Again this also makes me more tempted to read Elements as Town currently, as it did look like they were trying to avoid this happening, at least to me.
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Elements she/herBloopshe/her
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why is it me trying to do meta but just doing it badly and not me trying to find reasons to scum read someone but not bothering to do it properly?In post 203, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: so in summary, Elements' heart is in the right place, but the execution is flawed and I remain unconvincedI agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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Because it's lazy and that feels more like town than scum. The alternative is that you're scum scrambling desperately to push Gamma for {arbitrary reasons} and I don't think that makes sense in the gamestate unless the scumteam is exactly {Cobbler, Elements}, and even then that's a stretch because in that case there are still like 3 low-activity slots that could be pressured to divert attention from Cobbler instead.P,Polarized!I,Intelligent!N,Never wrong!K,Kyouko!
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Mizuki She/HerTownieShe/Her
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Why couldn't it be mafia simply not feeling pressured and lazily throwing out arbitrary scumreads? You present the possibility of lazy!town and desperate!wolf but don't seem to consider the option in the middle.In post 206, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Because it's lazy and that feels more like town than scum. The alternative is that you're scum scrambling desperately to push Gamma for {arbitrary reasons} and I don't think that makes sense in the gamestate unless the scumteam is exactly {Cobbler, Elements}, and even then that's a stretch because in that case there are still like 3 low-activity slots that could be pressured to divert attention from Cobbler instead.
I won't get into the whole statistics part of this post because my opinions on statistics in mafia is that they're only useful for the theoretical side of mafia (e.g balancing setups) and have no use in actual gameplay.In post 188, Cobblerfone wrote: -SNIP-
I do want to know what you find in Puff's and Kyouko's posts that seems townie and what in Elements posts you find scummy, since those are basically the only reads you've given so far.-
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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I think if mafia is not pressured they don't throw out an arbitrary scumread. You ask why not but I can't think of a reason "why." Why challenge the status quo as mafia if there is no pressure? This is why I address the possibility of the pressure being on scum!Elements' partner scum!Cobbler, and note that it's a stretch to say that is the case here. It doesn't make sense for scum!Elements to fake that read on Gamma. Maybe it's a poor attempt at distancing, but I don't get that vibe from Gamma's reaction.P,Polarized!I,Intelligent!N,Never wrong!K,Kyouko!
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ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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Distancing from scum!Gamma to be clear. I think that was clear, but I want to make it so. In any case, nothing strongly points to scum!Elements when I read those posts in this gamestate.P,Polarized!I,Intelligent!N,Never wrong!K,Kyouko!
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Puffalicious TheyTownieThey
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In post 206, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Because it's lazy and that feels more like town than scum. The alternative is that you're scum scrambling desperately to push Gamma for {arbitrary reasons} and I don't think that makes sense in the gamestate unless the scumteam is exactly {Cobbler, Elements}, and even then that's a stretch because in that case there are still like 3 low-activity slots that could be pressured to divert attention from Cobbler instead.
I read it as nai the way how elements did it. It would look towny if she provided evidence of the posts from the completed game while also reading the completed game for the first time.
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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what do you make of me unvoting Elements?In post 210, Puffalicious wrote:In post 206, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Because it's lazy and that feels more like town than scum. The alternative is that you're scum scrambling desperately to push Gamma for {arbitrary reasons} and I don't think that makes sense in the gamestate unless the scumteam is exactly {Cobbler, Elements}, and even then that's a stretch because in that case there are still like 3 low-activity slots that could be pressured to divert attention from Cobbler instead.
I read it as nai the way how elements did it. It would look towny if she provided evidence of the posts from the completed game while also reading the completed game for the first time.
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Puffalicious TheyTownieThey
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I wasn't able to get a read on it.In post 211, Gamma Emerald wrote:
what do you make of me unvoting Elements?In post 210, Puffalicious wrote:In post 206, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Because it's lazy and that feels more like town than scum. The alternative is that you're scum scrambling desperately to push Gamma for {arbitrary reasons} and I don't think that makes sense in the gamestate unless the scumteam is exactly {Cobbler, Elements}, and even then that's a stretch because in that case there are still like 3 low-activity slots that could be pressured to divert attention from Cobbler instead.
I read it as nai the way how elements did it. It would look towny if she provided evidence of the posts from the completed game while also reading the completed game for the first time.
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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but like, your whole vote on Elements was predicated on me voting them, so me unvoting should have staying power?<Embrace The Void>
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Puffalicious TheyTownieThey
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It was gob who voted Elements. He said he thinks he could hit scum.In post 213, Gamma Emerald wrote: but like, your whole vote on Elements was predicated on me voting them, so me unvoting should have staying power?
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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okay get him in here then<Embrace The Void>
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Puffalicious TheyTownieThey
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I was choosing between Elements and someone else... cant remember who. And I chose Elements because I saw you were on it, although I guess you unvoted at some point.In post 213, Gamma Emerald wrote: but like, your whole vote on Elements was predicated on me voting them, so me unvoting should have staying power?
I felt Elements was scum based on their opening as Crab btw. Idk how Adorable feels about Elements but I am down to vote that slot.-
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Elements she/herBloopshe/her
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Does the fact i was intentionally doctoring my posts so I wouldn't be recognised change your read at all?In post 216, Puffalicious wrote:
I was choosing between Elements and someone else... cant remember who. And I chose Elements because I saw you were on it, although I guess you unvoted at some point.In post 213, Gamma Emerald wrote: but like, your whole vote on Elements was predicated on me voting them, so me unvoting should have staying power?
I felt Elements was scum based on their opening as Crab btw. Idk how Adorable feels about Elements but I am down to vote that slot.I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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Admittedly you remind me of my scum IC in my first newbie game on the site. Way back long ago. So you give me scum vibes, but I'm actively choosing to ignore them, because I think it was probably mostly a personality thing. When I read your posts, I imagine an old man in a leather armchair hanging back and but asking questions with a point to them. Though when I check your profile you seem to be younger than me in reality, so apologies.In post 195, Thomith wrote: @Cobblerfone, we have your thoughts on Kyouko and Puff, what are your thoughts on the other players in this game?
For Elements, their vote hopping sticks out to me RVS!Puff -> Thomith -> Cobblerfone -> Gamma. When I read their posts they have a more naive voice in my head, but whether it's naive town or naive scum, I'm not sure.
Gamma gives the impression of just hanging back until I called her out. First parcel of content is in ISO 5 in which she gives the opinion that hypoclaiming targets but not results will be better. Next non-setup post of substance is ISO 9 where she asks Adorable what she thinks of Gobs reads. And that's it until I vote for her low content posts. Then she becomes more active. IDK, maybe she's mobile posting, but overall her early posts gives the impression of someone who wants to appear to be posting but to also fade into the background without strong opinions.
Mizuki, I think of in terms of her tunnel on me. My gut gives me a slight town read because I have a history of attracting misguided town tunnels. She was also the first vote on me when there was still a plausible wagon on Puff, so unless Puff is mafia and Mizuki is their partner, I don't see her being mafia. Though if Puff is mafia, then Mizuki is scummier.
For Celebloki and Shadowez, there's not enough interaction from them. Them being V/LA is slightly annoying, but it's Thanksgiving so whatever.
I'll assume you mean Gamma instead of Elements (unless that was a scum-slip and Elements is your partner?). For Gamma, see above.In post 207, Mizuki wrote:
Why couldn't it be mafia simply not feeling pressured and lazily throwing out arbitrary scumreads? You present the possibility of lazy!town and desperate!wolf but don't seem to consider the option in the middle.In post 206, ssbm_Kyouko wrote: Because it's lazy and that feels more like town than scum. The alternative is that you're scum scrambling desperately to push Gamma for {arbitrary reasons} and I don't think that makes sense in the gamestate unless the scumteam is exactly {Cobbler, Elements}, and even then that's a stretch because in that case there are still like 3 low-activity slots that could be pressured to divert attention from Cobbler instead.
I won't get into the whole statistics part of this post because my opinions on statistics in mafia is that they're only useful for the theoretical side of mafia (e.g balancing setups) and have no use in actual gameplay.In post 188, Cobblerfone wrote: -SNIP-
I do want to know what you find in Puff's and Kyouko's posts that seems townie and what in Elements posts you find scummy, since those are basically the only reads you've given so far.
For Puff, it's mostly Adorable. The way they've been answering questions directed at Gob seems more stream-of-consciousness rather than calculated. Adorable is also choosing to reply when they don't have to -- they could just wait for Gob.
For Kyouko, the setup speculation didn't seem calculated to influence the town to choose a bad option. It was also early at the start of the game where there's low information anyway and it got some discussion going, though it didn't really go anywhere. And while she's not asking questions, her reactions to posts feel genuine rather than calculated.Avatar by me-
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivorAny
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this take falls apart imo with how I've interacted with Mizuki, I opened myself towards providing opinions thereIn post 218, Cobblerfone wrote: Gamma gives the impression of just hanging back until I called her out. First parcel of content is in ISO 5 in which she gives the opinion that hypoclaiming targets but not results will be better. Next non-setup post of substance is ISO 9 where she asks Adorable what she thinks of Gobs reads. And that's it until I vote for her low content posts. Then she becomes more active. IDK, maybe she's mobile posting, but overall her early posts gives the impression of someone who wants to appear to be posting but to also fade into the background without strong opinions.<Embrace The Void>
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Puffalicious TheyTownieThey
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No not really. I am not tied to my read though, if someone else comes along that looks scummier I will go there. So,In post 217, Elements wrote:
Does the fact i was intentionally doctoring my posts so I wouldn't be recognised change your read at all?In post 216, Puffalicious wrote:
I was choosing between Elements and someone else... cant remember who. And I chose Elements because I saw you were on it, although I guess you unvoted at some point.In post 213, Gamma Emerald wrote: but like, your whole vote on Elements was predicated on me voting them, so me unvoting should have staying power?
I felt Elements was scum based on their opening as Crab btw. Idk how Adorable feels about Elements but I am down to vote that slot.-
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Mizuki She/HerTownieShe/Her
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For some reason I thought 191 was your post. Don't ask me why, I'd just woken up at that time.In post 218, Cobblerfone wrote: -SNIP-
When you say "the setup speculation didn't seem calculated to influence the town to choose a bad option" can you provide a more specific example? Where exactly are the points you think Kyouko could've misled town?
Could you be more specific with what pinged you about Elements opening?In post 216, Puffalicious wrote:
I was choosing between Elements and someone else... cant remember who. And I chose Elements because I saw you were on it, although I guess you unvoted at some point.In post 213, Gamma Emerald wrote: but like, your whole vote on Elements was predicated on me voting them, so me unvoting should have staying power?
I felt Elements was scum based on their opening as Crab btw. Idk how Adorable feels about Elements but I am down to vote that slot.-
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Mizuki She/HerTownieShe/Her
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Honestly?
VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I think pushing up here might be worthwhile.-
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shaddowez He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Admitted pseudo-prodge since I expected to be back much earlier today, will catch up tomorrow.V/LA on Weekends-
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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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Spoiler: Cobblerfone's Long Quote
Not completely game related but your visual of me made me smile
Could you expand a little on why you think you attract misguided town tunnels?
I'll bite on one of your other points though, just to hear some reasoning from someone else to avoid tunnelling on you.
@Elements, do you agree with the assessment that you've been vote hopping?
I'm willing to unvote for now. I admittedly don't know realistically how much info a Cobblerfone flip would give us right now.
UNVOTE:
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