open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[Dannflor]

I think Black and Kurtapika are scum together

[Bellaphant]

Not sure why you are apologising x. I like being responded to!

[Aisa]

Ooh Dann
Can you elaborate on how you feel about kurtapika a bit more?
Why did you say your scumread was cooling and why are you back on him now?

P-edit: lol some parts of the questions still stand

[Dannflor]

I think Titus's preflip stuff feels kinda townie

I think if Kurtapika does flip scum then nono could be a possible partner.

It's weird that he has kurt in his solve but doesn't seem interested in voting there at all

I don't like Dannflor's vote but I only think it makes him scum if Kurtapika flips scum

Even if it's a pressure vote...why pressure someone you think is town? Especially after his whole thing about vanity wagons. He finally got traction on someone he thinks has a "very decent chance of flipping red" only to abandon it

I think making multiple pre-flip reads on if Kurtapika flips scum is partner indicative because Black has been purportedly hard town reading Kurtapika since like the start of the game. These frequent interjections about possible partners for Kurtapika are also the type of reads to come from a buddy a lot - they feel safe to make because *half* of the read is true.

I don't think it really makes sense for Black to be hard townreading Kurtapika but also be constantly considering possible partners (not to mention the fact that her associative read between me and Kurtapika makes 0 amount of sense and I feel was just thrown out there to put something out there). It reads like preparing for kurtapika to flip red

[Skygazer]

where is kurtapika at vote wise? i'm fine switching there i think. i also don't like black's reaction to titus' thing so i can buy them as partners

[Dannflor]

Ooh Dann
Can you elaborate on how you feel about kurtapika a bit more?
Why did you say your scumread was cooling and why are you back on him now?

P-edit: lol some parts of the questions still stand

761 is not good

it feels like someone narrating the game from the sidelines rather than actually playing the game, which I think comes from scum a lot more of the time

stuff like:

"Now that the activity's sorted. Going to be looking at the backlog for individual posts here."

is performative in the type of way I see from scum a lot, basically narrating the background processes that are going on so that people know you are having Real Townie Thoughts

that post just had me reread him and largely I like the original wagon composition on Kurtapika so I think it's a good bet

[Dannflor]

where is kurtapika at vote wise? i'm fine switching there i think. i also don't like black's reaction to titus' thing so i can buy them as partners

4 votes i think

[Dannflor]

I still don't like project repeatedly using lack of experience or newb status as a defense

That's something I see from new scum a lot of the time

I don't really feel as good about it at the moment though and I can't really explain why

[Aisa]

Afrayed, your meta case on me is hot garbage. Out of all the content we have here you're choosing to place your vote based on my posts feeling the same as another game. Did you even look at more than just one game to see if that feeling is elsewhere? It's a half-baked read. You can't solve me based on meta and that is even more evident based on your conclusion. Many have tried and they have all failed. So please either come at me with a real case or do something useful with your vote

Using meta in some capacity is fine. Using it as the sole reason for a vote, and only comparing two games, is what annoys me. People don't use meta correctly. I could link to all the times people have used meta incorrectly on me in my signature and people would still be like "oh Black's playing like her scum game!!!"

Why would it not? It’s rather immaterial to be honest in my opinion. But if you really need an answer Then it did, but only for a moment.

Because your whole read is based on Open 888 and I didn't get defensive at all when being pushed as scum in that game. It doesn't feel like you are putting much thought into this read at all

My issue that black said she didn't like being metad and then referred to meta when saying about being defensive, which she just....is being

@Bella, I disagree
A good part of Black's point seems to be that she dislikes being meta'd because people get her meta wrong. I think that's consistent with then correcting / challenging Afrayed on his perception of her meta, as she does in post 603

[Black]

My issue that black said she didn't like being metad and then referred to meta when saying about being defensive, which she just....is being

Using meta in some capacity is fine. Using it as the sole reason for a vote, and only comparing two games, is what annoys me.

[Black]

I don't think it really makes sense for Black to be hard townreading Kurtapika but also be constantly considering possible partners

My TR got a bit weaker after 463 and 468 so I'm not sure why this is an issue?

(not to mention the fact that her associative read between me and Kurtapika makes 0 amount of sense and I feel was just thrown out there to put something out there)

I've soft-bussed my teammates in over half of my scum games. It makes sense that I would get suspicious over someone else trying to do that

[Dannflor]

Spoiler: me soft bussing my partner btw

as far as kurtapika goes...

simply put i think his posts revolve far more around justifying himself and seem more concerned with the optics of how he comes off than they revolve around actually trying to sort through the playerlist and figure out who is scum

the move to vote skygazer reinforces this thought

I feel that kurtapika just way overjustified this move so that it would seem like a towny pro-town move, when I think town!kurtapika would be more concerned with actually pressuring skygazer (or anyone) than justifying his move there

I don't think this can just be explained by kurtapika coming from a different style of mafia game because they've certainly shown an understanding that this is a reaction-based meta and shown that they can form reads/observations based on those reactions

I would appreciate it if people who think I am likely to be town would also vote kurtapika

we haven't had an actual wagon of more than like 3 votes take off and I think kurtapika is someone who has a very decent chance of flipping red

Kurtapika > T3 > Black

these are dannflor approved wagons in about the order i feel comfortable wagoning them

kurtapika's 335 is good

no it's really not

He is verbose in a lot of what he's saying so it seems consistent at least, still no way to tell if it's personality or not. I don't understand why you don't think townies can be worried about their optics? If he's town and he notices a wagon forming on him I think it's normal to want to seem townie in his responses

so, a lot of mafia (read: scum) player's first priority is to look town. This makes sense since their win condition depends on surviving until the end of the game and looking more town (or less scummy) than enough other people is the most straightforward way to do this.

town's first priority is to find and kill scum. town are not necessarily as prone to worry about surviving because they can win posthumously as long as the scum are found and deaded.

obviously this is a massive oversimplification and townies do obviously want to look town as well (and there are other complications as well)

BUT town's first priority is generally not to look town, it's to find scum. my general feeling is that kurta's posts were more designed to prioritize the former which i view as more likely to come from scum.

[Bellaphant]

Maybe I'm not wording it right. Or reading right. I saw knot call out your defensiveness, which I also see, and then you specifically asked whether you were like that in the open game?

Like, it felt like you were deflecting. I do feel you are defensive and overly picking fights, no meta involved.

I understand what you are saying about the rest of the meta thing.

[Black]

Spoiler: me soft bussing my partner btw

as far as kurtapika goes...

simply put i think his posts revolve far more around justifying himself and seem more concerned with the optics of how he comes off than they revolve around actually trying to sort through the playerlist and figure out who is scum

the move to vote skygazer reinforces this thought

I feel that kurtapika just way overjustified this move so that it would seem like a towny pro-town move, when I think town!kurtapika would be more concerned with actually pressuring skygazer (or anyone) than justifying his move there

I don't think this can just be explained by kurtapika coming from a different style of mafia game because they've certainly shown an understanding that this is a reaction-based meta and shown that they can form reads/observations based on those reactions

I would appreciate it if people who think I am likely to be town would also vote kurtapika

we haven't had an actual wagon of more than like 3 votes take off and I think kurtapika is someone who has a very decent chance of flipping red

Kurtapika > T3 > Black

these are dannflor approved wagons in about the order i feel comfortable wagoning them

kurtapika's 335 is good

no it's really not

He is verbose in a lot of what he's saying so it seems consistent at least, still no way to tell if it's personality or not. I don't understand why you don't think townies can be worried about their optics? If he's town and he notices a wagon forming on him I think it's normal to want to seem townie in his responses

so, a lot of mafia (read: scum) player's first priority is to look town. This makes sense since their win condition depends on surviving until the end of the game and looking more town (or less scummy) than enough other people is the most straightforward way to do this.

town's first priority is to find and kill scum. town are not necessarily as prone to worry about surviving because they can win posthumously as long as the scum are found and deaded.

obviously this is a massive oversimplification and townies do obviously want to look town as well (and there are other complications as well)

BUT town's first priority is generally not to look town, it's to find scum. my general feeling is that kurta's posts were more designed to prioritize the former which i view as more likely to come from scum.

Maybe I'm using the wrong term but I'm referring to making your teammate look like scum but eventually finding a way to push something else. So yeah I got paranoid about that after you hopped off the wagon to vote someone you previously townread right after complaining about vanity wagons

[Black]

Maybe I'm not wording it right. Or reading right. I saw knot call out your defensiveness, which I also see, and then you specifically asked whether you were like that in the open game?

At the time I was trying to determine if Afrayed's read was real or not. I explained it in 603. He said he started doubting his read when he pushed me because I was chill, but in the Open game I was chill when being pushed and I was scum, so it didn't make sense that he would think "being chill when pushed" = town!Black

[JupiterXV]

I still don't like project repeatedly using lack of experience or newb status as a defense

That's something I see from new scum a lot of the time

I don't really feel as good about it at the moment though and I can't really explain why

^ what i was saying

personally i want to move my vote to project but i'm also pretty convinced on kurtapika, especially considering the blatant lack of solving and scumreads coming from kurta (e.g i literally asked them hey what're your scumreads" and they didnt answer)

[shaddowez]

I think making multiple pre-flip reads on if Kurtapika flips scum is partner indicative because Black has been purportedly hard town reading Kurtapika since like the start of the game. These frequent interjections about possible partners for Kurtapika are also the type of reads to come from a buddy a lot - they feel safe to make because *half* of the read is true.

I don't think it really makes sense for Black to be hard townreading Kurtapika but also be constantly considering possible partners (not to mention the fact that her associative read between me and Kurtapika makes 0 amount of sense and I feel was just thrown out there to put something out there). It reads like preparing for kurtapika to flip red

Are you voting between the two based on an assumed associative? If not, why Kurta over Black? I have a reason for asking, but want your thoughts here before I provide mine.

[shaddowez]

I still don't like project repeatedly using lack of experience or newb status as a defense

That's something I see from new scum a lot of the time

I don't really feel as good about it at the moment though and I can't really explain why

^ what i was saying

personally i want to move my vote to project but i'm also pretty convinced on kurtapika, especially considering the blatant lack of solving and scumreads coming from kurta (e.g i literally asked them hey what're your scumreads" and they didnt answer)

You're still voting me, so you're not voting either of the people you're talking about in this post

[shaddowez]

also you haven't pushed anyone besides me. if you were pushing someone else i would still be scumreading you. i've been asking you about your reasoning and you've just let those responses drop. there's no reason for me to rescind my scumread when your responses on me are still scummy

1) Your main reason for SRing me that you've stated is because of my push on you. If I was pushing someone else, interactions would be completely different - how can you say that you'd be SRing me even if I was pushing someone else without knowing how those interactions would go?

2) So am I letting my responses drop, or are they scummy? You may not like them and SR them, but saying I'm not responding is disingenuous at best. In 420 I respond to your 288, in 470 I respond to your 233.

1. Iirc, you called my push on you OMGUS or something along those lines. What I’m trying to say is if you made that push on literally anyone else for the same reason I’d also find it absurd.
2. I’m pretty sure I made more than just two posts about you? There’s certainly been more responses than that what

Tbh I’m willing to re evaluate you but you usually just come into the thread argue with me and disappear, so honestly it’d be nice to see more action from you since you’re borderline tunneling on me

1) I did call it an OMGUS at one point, because that's what it felt like. However, you seem to be thinking about it backwards because my vote on you was prior to that, the push wasn't

because

I saw your vote that way. That said, clearing up that the same argument on someone else would have led to the same conclusion makes more sense than the original phrasing.
2) I wasn't going to write an entire post with all of our interactions, I just brought up a few as examples to disprove what you said.

I'll admit it has been a pseudo-tunnel, I haven't had as much in any one go as I would like so I've been generally catching up and just responding to our interactions.

I am not sure about Jupiter's outbursts, are they genuine or an act

I've been asking myself the same question - they could be AtE, but more of them do feel genuine than not. My problem is they have two votes on them, and seem to be lashing out about one particular item that only the two people currently voting them have even really brought up.

People who aren’t voting me have also talked about it and I think Afrayed has been a bit shitty to me so I don’t know how you expect me to react to this in a winning fashion

I may have missed them, but didn't recall seeing many (if any) others pushing based on that specific post. I did notice Afrayed's interactions with you, but again they seemed based on other things.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: UNVOTE

There are things I still really don't like and may end up kicking myself later, but I'm losing a little of my SR with their recent postings. Just cleaning up the VC a little here until I get a chance to formulate them better.

[JupiterXV]

Yeah I think I'm also losing my sr on you lmao VOTE: Kurtapika

1) I did call it an OMGUS at one point, because that's what it felt like. However, you seem to be thinking about it backwards because my vote on you was prior to that, the push wasn't because I saw your vote that way. That said, clearing up that the same argument on someone else would have led to the same conclusion makes more sense than the original phrasing.

No, sorry- what I'm saying is that my push on you isn't OMGUS because I'm not voting you just because you're voting me- it's an issue I had with your initial post and tbh it comes off as a weird, reachy vote to make. If you had made that same vote with someone else, I also would've pushed you for it. Just clarifying.

2) I wasn't going to write an entire post with all of our interactions, I just brought up a few as examples to disprove what you said.

I mean idk I'm going off of memory here, but I do feel there's a few things you might've dropped. Dont' know how factually correct it is but maybe it's just your general inactivity

I may have missed them, but didn't recall seeing many (if any) others pushing based on that specific post. I did notice Afrayed's interactions with you, but again they seemed based on other things.

I think generally a lot of the recent posts that have mentioned me have discussed me lying, though
Afrayed came back around to scumread me due to that post series though, just so you know

[Dannflor]

Are you voting between the two based on an assumed associative? If not, why Kurta over Black? I have a reason for asking, but want your thoughts here before I provide mine.

I scum read Kurta more individually, but I also think there is partner equity between the two

[Titus]

K also has a wagon.

What is K at?

[schadd_]

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[schadd_]

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