Toriel's Patience (end)

[RCEnigma]

So?

[Dannflor]

so the team wouldn't have to be exactly you/bingle/ydrasse

[RCEnigma]

I’m agreed I think shirou is scum. I just think they would have discussed quickhammers at some point in the last like week or so.

[Sakura Hana]

Well I guess Dann can make that post and then shoot bingle but bingle is alive so lol

You say this as if Dann had any option other than Kyoko in that scenario.

If dann is scum, and yesterday dann thought kyouko was so guaranteed to be spared today that dann would be obligated to shoot kyouko, then dann would never make 4071 because Dann is both (1) sealing his fate that he will be pretty hard obligated to vote bingle today and (2) sealing his fate that he's making what will probably be, to some of the town, a convincing town case on bingle. It's just so, unnecessarily, brutally committal of a post for scum to make in that situation.

I looked back, at that point Dann was voting for Kyouko tho, heck Ali said "Yolo vote me or no balls" and only a page later Dann voted for Ali.
But now that i look at that progression, maybe it's more likely to come from a town player than a scum who just decided to go "screw the plans, let's just yolo spare Alisae"

[implosion]

If bingle were scum the exact team would have to be bingle + me + Ydrasse… or he’d have been hammered.

this is untrue for like 8 reasons lol

no one is getting away with quickhammering their scumbuddy today in this setup. Scum do, in fact, need to be thinking about tomorrow and not monolithically about today. Like this,

I don’t want to hear any arguments about posturing or angling for the future, scum NEED a scum flip today and there isn’t a way around that. You just flip your partner and try to figure out how to spin it later.

is just hogwash. Scum do NEED a scum flip today. They also NEED a scum flip tomorrow an exactly equal amount.

[Bingle]

I would also be absolutely furious if you died or sakura got spared tomorrow, and would march on Isis's house to demand retribution, fwiw.

RCE... and Alisae.

?
Isnt this implying a you spare means there's a tomorrow?

No it's implying that a tomorrow after a me spare is mod bastardry and I'd need to start singing "Kill the beast!" Or at least humming it very loudly.

[Bingle]

bingle is there anyone besides yourself that you'd be comfortable sparing

Not really, no.

I think I'm super obvious town, and it's gonna take a lot to shake that. I don't need to solve to win this, I just need to show what I think is obvious. Unless it becomes impossible for me to be spared, I'm probably just going to, yknow, try to win the game.

[Sakura Hana]

I think I'm super obvious town

How interesting, i also think i'm super obvious town, but apparently it isnt that super obvious to everyone in here.

[implosion]

bingle is there anyone besides yourself that you'd be comfortable sparing

Not really, no.

I think I'm super obvious town, and it's gonna take a lot to shake that. I don't need to solve to win this, I just need to show what I think is obvious. Unless it becomes impossible for me to be spared, I'm probably just going to, yknow, try to win the game.

How do you feel about Dannflor in light of my argument?

[implosion]

Or do you have reads more generally right now? I myself am not finding an especially coherent worldview where both of us are town and so I'm certainly not going to vote you because you think you're obvtown right now.

[RCEnigma]

If bingle were scum the exact team would have to be bingle + me + Ydrasse… or he’d have been hammered.

this is untrue for like 8 reasons lol

no one is getting away with quickhammering their scumbuddy today in this setup. Scum do, in fact, need to be thinking about tomorrow and not monolithically about today. Like this,

I don’t want to hear any arguments about posturing or angling for the future, scum NEED a scum flip today and there isn’t a way around that. You just flip your partner and try to figure out how to spin it later.

is just hogwash. Scum do NEED a scum flip today. They also NEED a scum flip tomorrow an exactly equal amount.

There is no downside for scum quickhammering if they get a townie on the wagon. Outed scum doesn’t matter if they aren’t in the spare pool. They weren’t getting spared anyway.

[Bingle]

Or do you have reads more generally right now? I myself am not finding an especially coherent worldview where both of us are town and so I'm certainly not going to vote you because you think you're obvtown right now.

I think if both of us are town then it's likely that either Ydrasse or Dannflor were in a shit position and gambited. I think it is less likely, but still vaguely possible, that RCE gambited. I think it is even less likely, but still possible, that Sakura gambited. I know, for a fact, that I'm town. I don't particularly think both of us are town. I think you pushing against Ali yesterday and you pushing against me today are a pretty good indicator of that, tbh.

But again, I don't really have to pick out the scumteam. I have to shine as town for the town players. Scum is the group in the hotseat where they have to prevent my spare from going through at all costs.

[RCEnigma]

Dann I’m fairly certain you’re town even if bingle were to flip scum today (I don’t think he will) I’d be willing to push you up tomorrow if we miss, and we just vote bingle today.

Worst case it looks like bingle!scum -> Sakura nk -> you and I live for next spare. I don’t mind being the one to step back.

[Sakura Hana]

Dann I’m fairly certain you’re town even if bingle were to flip scum today (I don’t think he will) I’d be willing to push you up tomorrow if we miss, and we just vote bingle today.

Worst case it looks like bingle!scum -> Sakura nk -> you and I live for next spare. I don’t mind being the one to step back.

Do you think i have less chance of flipping town than Bingle?
I don't see why you'd be pushing so hard for Bingle spare otherwise.
You mentioned yourself on your list of 4 that You, Bingle, Me and Dann should give us a gg.
I don't see how that makes any difference to you which of the 4 goes.

[Sakura Hana]

As it currently stands, I'm voting myself, Dann's voting himself and Bingle's voting himself while you're voting Bingle.
Literally you could vote any of us 3 and it'd be the same ammount of votes so that cant be it either.

[Lazy Shirou]

First of all I need to explain certain things today since you didn't even let me post yesterday.

I'm glad Ali was town but that does not fix the problem of you all not sparing Kyouko, an obvious nightkill target, before sparing Alisae which had more suspicion on her

I did not town read Key/Ydrasse that much on night 4, but I said that I no longer was interested in Kyouko to spare Kyouko in D5. Everything turned out well in the end, SORT OF, but I really wanted to spare Kyouko and then if you all wanted it we could have been sparing Alisae today. I've my doubts whether scum would NK Ali given I was suspecting her and being loud about it.

[Lazy Shirou]

The second issue is that I think RCE and Ydrasse need to be unaligned for the 1v1 in D1, and the mathematical odds (along with my most recent perception of the game), makes me consider Ydrasse may in fact be scum and Ali was right (which in turn may make RCE town but I always have a bad feeling about his posts).

[RCEnigma]

As it currently stands, I'm voting myself, Dann's voting himself and Bingle's voting himself while you're voting Bingle.
Literally you could vote any of us 3 and it'd be the same ammount of votes so that cant be it either.

Idk the vote count but if my vote hammers I’ll vote. Otherwise it doesn’t really matter where my vote is inside the spare pool.

[Sakura Hana]

As it currently stands, I'm voting myself, Dann's voting himself and Bingle's voting himself while you're voting Bingle.
Literally you could vote any of us 3 and it'd be the same ammount of votes so that cant be it either.

Idk the vote count but if my vote hammers I’ll vote. Otherwise it doesn’t really matter where my vote is inside the spare pool.

I guess that's a fair point.

[Lazy Shirou]

The third and most important issue is that someone scumclaimed here in my eyes

and that person is none other than DANNWOLF!

to be transparent i think the team is exactly like sakura/rce/shirou and they've been subtly pushing each other into or back into the town core for a while now

My above post reconsidering my views after Ali flipped town is the FIRST time I've any positive feelings towards RCE whatsoever.

I've been doing nothing but be anti-sparing RCE for the rest of the game and very much up to the point you posted this.

Sakura also hadn't been in my top 3 towncore I was suggesting, my names were Ydrasse/Kyouko/Keyleth

There's no way this is a real thought you've imo. This is a completely made up worldview that has little basis on what happened in the game up to that point. If you really wanted to suggest me as scum, you could have seen me as a possible Ydrasse partner that is trying to get her spared but I've made much less if any contribution to those you mentioned.

[Lazy Shirou]

As it currently stands, I'm voting myself, Dann's voting himself and Bingle's voting himself while you're voting Bingle.
Literally you could vote any of us 3 and it'd be the same ammount of votes so that cant be it either.

Idk the vote count but if my vote hammers I’ll vote. Otherwise it doesn’t really matter where my vote is inside the spare pool.

It does matter.

I definitely think Dann is scum right now and Bingle may be a partner otherwise he loses today

VOTE: Sakura

[Lazy Shirou]

Unhappily although I'm not very confident on my read on Sakura, it's the best I've with the remaining people's pool

[Lazy Shirou]

I can also claim to be sheeping Alisae, I think

[Sakura Hana]

I've been doing nothing but be anti-sparing RCE for the rest of the game and very much up to the point you posted this.

This is literally what i said yday.

Sakura also hadn't been in my top 3 towncore I was suggesting, my names were Ydrasse/Kyouko/Keyleth

I did miss this tho.
Thanks for your support!

[Lazy Shirou]

Sakura/kyouko/

rce is pretty safe to spare in

I've my doubts about RCE but yeah, I'm fine with this now and Alisae would be approving my actions if she was still here I think

see? even evil dragons can side with the heroes sometimes!