Open 898: Don't Fall In The Volcano! | Game Over!

[NekoLover]

I just found out how to have my bookmark automatically jump to the first unread post; thats a relief, I've been going through the entire forums this whole time lol

[Black]

I just found out how to have my bookmark automatically jump to the first unread post; thats a relief, I've been going through the entire forums this whole time lol

Oh beginner tips! There's something called "Your posts" right underneath the MafiaScum banner in the top right. Once you post in a thread it will also show in this section

Also, if you want to filter out everything and look at one player's posts, you can click on (ISO) next to the post number

[Black]

Top left*

[NekoLover]

Ah thank you, i'll keep that in mind

[DragonEater70]

Black said she doubted I was "seriously scumreading her" on page 2. I think there's no reason to doubt it if you understand that by "seriously scumreading", I thought she had significantly higher chance than random (33-40% instead of the default 25%) to be scum, NOT that I was confident (60-80%) she was scum. Right now, though, I think there's at least 60% chance Black flips scum and I am probably not moving my vote away this day phase.

Let me explain how my read developed:

So the first thing that pinged me scum about Black was the fact that she ignored my RVS poke at her. This might sound silly to you, but experience shows that scum often has trouble reacting properly to "fluff posting" (if you want me to go into long winded examples, I will spoiler them at the bottom of this post). So this was a small ping that raised Black from 25% scum to 27% scum, I'd say.

The second thing that pinged me, and I thought I mindmelded on with skygazer (but it turns out he was scumreading it for an entirely different reason), was Black's attempt to sort of discredit Skygazer's TR on me (at least that's how I read post 26). The scum motivation behind it is obvious because scum don't like town finding each other, and this also ties into meta - I have previously played a game (Open 888) with scum!Black where she discredited reads a lot, so I know it is her playstyle as scum to discredit reads.

Then Black got to E-1, and instead of either defending herself, or trying to find out WHY Skygazer and I were scumreading her (which I feel is what a townie would do), she just posts 32 and 33, which are an attempt to discredit the wagon not by refuting the reasons to scumread her (which are actually valid reasons on both my and Skygazer's part), but by saying (correctly) that limming on page 2 is bad - though that has nothing to do with her alignment. This reads to me as Black knowing she has no way to legitimately defend herself (because she's scum), and so deciding to sort of guilt trip her voters out of voting her by saying it's too early to vote her (+ shading her voters).

This is the point I said I was seriously scumreading Black, and at that point I thought she had about 33-40% chance to flip scum (much higher than random but still less than half).

Since then the following developments occurred that reinforced my scumread on Black (mind you, I only read up to the end of page 3):

VOTE: skygazer

Black has no reason to scumread Sky here. This feels like an attempt to scare Sky off her.

I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that

This distinctly feels like scum!Black from Open 888 - in that game she also "didn't believe" that I was scumreading her.

UNVOTE: Black

Just because I don't want to bandwagon someone D1 without knowing much

Neko town

This feels like both (a) a very "safe" read for scum to make, and (b) a possible attempt to pocket Neko. I don't really see why town!Black would call Neko town for unvoting, because to me it's not that obvious at all than in a town!Black world Neko has to be town to unvote.

Post 46 - As with post 39 above, feels like scum!Black from 888.

UNVOTE:

If we assume that Black really did SR Skygazer here, I really don't see what made her unvote, especially right after claiming she doesn't believe we actually SR'd her (and especially after a post from Skygazer that I think town!Black would probably interpret as disingenuous, because I know I would). I think the scum motivation behind this is to try alleviate pressure off her, since by unvoting she is subtly giving the message of "let's end this conflict and look elsewhere" (which if you look at the next page, is exactly what Black managed to do).

Gut feeling that sky and Dragon are town

My Neko townread wasn't real. I actually think unvoting there could be somewhat LAMIST but I'm not sure if I expect from a newbie. I'm not familiar with ToS or any of those other social games at all so I don't know how high his skill level could be here

What's the town motivation for making an "unreal" read???


THEN, Skygazer explained his read on Black, and Black responded:

the reason i'm voting black is similar to the reason i'm TRing DE70. if no one else is getting it then i guess its possible black is town and just didnt catch the thing, idk

Sky are you talking about 13? I thought this was a townslip until I realized the sample PM's are in the setup post

Now THIS is a fake thought process. If Black thought 13 was a townslip and then realized it wasn't, she would have never posted 26. She would have mentioned something about her own thoughts.

(btw, JSYK, after I saw my role PM I actually went and checked to make sure that it was in the sample PMs before I posted 13, because I didn't want to accidentally confirm myself as town by claiming flavor in a game where flavor is not an intended part of the mechanics)

Spoiler: The thingies I said would be spoilered are here

For instance in one game I jokingly claimed mason on page 2, and said that it was a "serious claim". All the townies treated it as a joke, but one scum reacted with "why are you claiming mason right out the gate?" (too serious response). Or in another game I asked another player to obvtown, and the player said "I'm alreayd obvtowning". To me that sounded like a flippant town response (it was), but a scum player in that game said "it's a bad look that she is saying she's obvtowning when she isn't" (weird response to a "fluff" post).

I know these examples are not

the same

as not responding to an RVS poke, but they are supposed to get the point across that scum has difficulty responding in the same way that town respond, and to me not responding is different to how town!Black would respond, most likely.

[DragonEater70]

Sorry for wallpost, I kinda wanted to throw away a lot of the points but I think it's important that I give my entire thought process on Black so you get a full picture. Please read it, but if it's too long, I'll try to make a TLDR.

[NekoLover]

I can kinda see dragons points now, and why it was hard for him to just sum it up

UNVOTE: Dragon

[Klick]

VOTE: Dannflor
OMGUS

[DragonEater70]

Actually I'll just go ahead and make a TLDR right now (but would still appreciate if you read the wallpost)

I'm currently scumreading Black for these reasons, plus a few more (and I also have not read past the end of page 3):

1. When she got to E-1 on page 2 she made no effort to actually read the people on her wagon or engage with the scumreads, but instead threw a general shade and discredit about the act of putting her at E-1. I think this is because, as scum, Black didn't feel she had a "real" reason to defend herself so she used this as an excuse.

2. A lot of Black's posts on the first 3 pages ping me as very similar to Open 888, a game where she was scum (meta read).

3. I think saying "I also thought for a second that Dragon townslipped but actually it's in the sample PMs" is a fake thought process, and that Black would have not asked Skygazer "why is Dragon town" in 26 if she truly had that thought process.

[DragonEater70]

I can kinda see dragons points now, and why it was hard for him to just sum it up

UNVOTE: Dragon

Yep lol

[DragonEater70]

Reading now btw

[Klick]

DragonEater even more town

[Black]

I think there's no reason to doubt it if you understand that by "seriously scumreading", I thought she had significantly higher chance than random (33-40% instead of the default 25%) to be scum

Yeah I still doubt that btw even with your clarification

So the first thing that pinged me scum about Black was the fact that she ignored my RVS poke at her. This might sound silly to you, but experience shows that scum often has trouble reacting properly to "fluff posting" (if you want me to go into long winded examples, I will spoiler them at the bottom of this post). So this was a small ping that raised Black from 25% scum to 27% scum, I'd say.

I don't have trouble responding to fluff posting as scum

The second thing that pinged me, and I thought I mindmelded on with skygazer (but it turns out he was scumreading it for an entirely different reason), was Black's attempt to sort of discredit Skygazer's TR on me (at least that's how I read post 26). The scum motivation behind it is obvious because scum don't like town finding each other, and this also ties into meta - I have previously played a game (Open 888) with scum!Black where she discredited reads a lot, so I know it is her playstyle as scum to discredit reads.

You're reading this wrong. I was trying to sort sky with 26, not discredit her. I didn't think the townread made much sense and I wanted her to explain it

Then Black got to E-1, and instead of either defending herself, or trying to find out WHY Skygazer and I were scumreading her (which I feel is what a townie would do), she just posts 32 and 33, which are an attempt to discredit the wagon not by refuting the reasons to scumread her (which are actually valid reasons on both my and Skygazer's part), but by saying (correctly) that limming on page 2 is bad - though that has nothing to do with her alignment.

If I didn't think either of you legitimately scumread me then it makes sense for me to not care about figuring out the reason behind it. I thought it was just pressure

This reads to me as Black knowing she has no way to legitimately defend herself (because she's scum), and so deciding to sort of guilt trip her voters out of voting her by saying it's too early to vote her (+ shading her voters).

I didn't feel the need to defend myself because I didn't think the scumreads were very real

Black has no reason to scumread Sky here. This feels like an attempt to scare Sky off her.

This isn't true. I thought it was scummy that sky decided to keep me at e-1 knowing that someone could just come in and random vote me without noticing how close I was to dying

This feels like both (a) a very "safe" read for scum to make, and (b) a possible attempt to pocket Neko. I don't really see why town!Black would call Neko town for unvoting, because to me it's not that obvious at all than in a town!Black world Neko has to be town to unvote.

42 was a joke read. I didn't really townread Neko from that as I explained in subsequent posts

If we assume that Black really did SR Skygazer here, I really don't see what made her unvote, especially right after claiming she doesn't believe we actually SR'd her (and especially after a post from Skygazer that I think town!Black would probably interpret as disingenuous, because I know I would). I think the scum motivation behind this is to try alleviate pressure off her, since by unvoting she is subtly giving the message of "let's end this conflict and look elsewhere" (which if you look at the next page, is exactly what Black managed to do).

I had a theory floating around in my head that I don't really want to go into atm. I unvoted because I thought sky might be town

What's the town motivation for making an "unreal" read???

To be funny

Now THIS is a fake thought process. If Black thought 13 was a townslip and then realized it wasn't, she would have never posted 26. She would have mentioned something about her own thoughts.

This isn't true at all. I was expecting other players to realize it wasn't a townslip either, especially sky who is a veteran around here. I wanted sky to explain her townread. It wasn't until later that I realized it could probably be because she didn't understand 13 wasn't a townslip

[Black]

VOTE: Claptastik

[NekoLover]

I'm just gonna stay neutral here because both of you make very valid points

[DragonEater70]

I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip

Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either

i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.

I agree with Sky's take here.

I do think it's strange that sky thought I was scum because I seemed confused about her Dragon TR. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say right then that she thought 13 was a townslip

Putting me at e-1 and keeping it there after I pointed it out doesn't feel great either

i felt like DE70's townslip was kind of obvious and i felt like the fact that you hadn't picked up on it was scum indicative. i didn't realize it was e1 but i wasnt too bothered by it either tbh.

Why do you think scum are more likely to miss a townslip?

Because townslips by nature indicate some knowledge or lack of knowledge that only town have or don't have. Therefore scum are automatically less likely to notice them.

hmm maybe

48 is kinda weird

Hi, my name is DragonEater70. I like to make weird posts early so I can get to be a major early wagon. It's a hobby of mine.

VOTE: Dragon

I don't think it feels natural for him to have a "serious scumread" on me this early (35) and I don't like how he was unwilling to explain it. In the time it took him to write an unnecessarily long-winded 48 he could have at least summarized his read

Sky's read makes sense in hindsight, but Dragon's doesn't, and I find it unlikely that he scumread me for the same reasons as her

Weird thought to have after calling me town (presumably for scumreading her? I don't really know what else would make Black call me town in 53).

Also weird to say "Dragon's SR on me doesn't make sense" without hearing my reason first.

[DragonEater70]

Also there's like a 40% chance I wake up at E-1 or something (because of how scummy this move is), but I would just enjoy that soo

This line is throwing me off a little though. If Dragon is scum here then he's aware that this is a scummy move, so I feel like it would make sense for him to just say the read and then go to bed? As opposed to following through with the scummy move anyway. But the last part of "I would just enjoy that" reads a little like he's trying to act casual about being pushed which I think is more likely to come from scum

I'm a bit conflicted here

WOW is this black FAKING not knowing my town meta???

[DragonEater70]

I'd also hate to fade you page 2, but you might consider the fact that at least two people are seriously scumreading you and respond to that

Which two?

Me and Sky

[NekoLover]

So if i'm keeping track, that should be
1 vote on dragon
2 votes on black
1 vote on me
1 vote on klick
1 vote on dannflour

[DragonEater70]

You included me in the group that could go either way which seems a bit unnatural

Huh?

[DragonEater70]

Black explain this statement please.

[DragonEater70]

That's fair. I guess what I'm getting at is it seems like the natural progression of having a strong feeling that Dragon is scum combined with not thinking we are partnered would be to think I'm probably town

Fishing for town reads?

I actually thought it was shade on Neko

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: klick

Black town

Vote your scum buddy with me Clap

This is very transparently Black's scum partner

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Black

On what basis? Do you actually think I was fishing for a townread? The townread was already implied...how does it benefit me to get him to say it if I'm scum?

If it was implied, what benefit does it give you to call it "a bit unnatural"?

[DragonEater70]

I would like to roll scum with black one day

LOL