Open 899 - The Pizza Kids Coalition [Game Over]

[DeasVail]

@implosion: Then what do you think of my post which was basically the same thing?

Your post is rhetorically very different and also I think your group has a much higher chance of being all town

I am confused, am I missing something?

[DragonEater70]

Conflict isn't the friction that causes readable gamestates
Genuine engagement is

That's what I feel is lacking

I'll answer what you want though:

Feel pretty okay on you and VD, I would like you to sell me on Ydra though.

Like I think in a vacuum her posting is towny, BUT I

think

for her specifically it's NAI? I haven't ever played with her but I read a scum game and a town game of hers and couldn't really tell the difference.

[DragonEater70]

Alright game solved for realsies

HEAL: Klick, Appearance, Dragon, Elements, DeasVail

Now I just lurk until DV and Klick figure out this is the correct solve and then we just convince two others.

Any thoughts on who the reds in the other 4 are?
Or if you're wrong who you think you are most likely to be wrong about?

Of the others I'm most confident about implo, and don't really have any reason to TR either T3 or Kyo so either could be scum.

You are the one I'm most confident is town, tbh. I feel Klick is similar to his town game in a lot of ways, but in his recent scum game he was also very similar to his town game so I don't think it's impossible for him to fake this. VD is mainly a gutread at this point.

[DeasVail]

Conflict isn't the friction that causes readable gamestates
Genuine engagement is

That's what I feel is lacking

I'll answer what you want though:

Feel pretty okay on you and VD, I would like you to sell me on Ydra though.

Like I think in a vacuum her posting is towny, BUT I

think

for her specifically it's NAI? I haven't ever played with her but I read a scum game and a town game of hers and couldn't really tell the difference.

Hey implosion and I have started the weird pseudo-conflict dance, give it time

[DragonEater70]

Nice!

[DragonEater70]

i'm going to stop talking about that now

i think Elements/Klick/Ydrasse/Dragoneater/T3 is a pretty good pool of town. Elements I think actually should just be locktown for that one post, it's like a soft townslip. ssbm might actually just be town for healing them because I don't really know what scum gets out of that in this gamestate. Someone was saying they felt they wanted to re-evaluate T3 but idk. I'll probably do that at some point but shrug. I guess this leaves DV and Appearance and I don't really get why DV is being townread. I think I get why some people have called Appearance town but don't really see it.

Which post do you want to locktown Elements for? The 7 players thing?

[DragonEater70]

A few of your posts before this point have given the impression of not having enough time for the game/being busy with other things. So I’m interested in why your play before this point would be representative of your usual gameplay to the point where people’s experience with you would be so relevant.

To me, it feels premature to conclude that certain people townread/scumread you because of their experience with you.

I mean, Ydrasse literally asked Dragoneater if he'd checked if what he was seeing wasn't just how I usually played. Honestly I'm mostly annoyed at the way Dragoneater is acting toward me. I have been busy with other things but my first spate of posting was me with a decent amount of time to look at/think about things iirc so it's probably fairly representative of my typical gameplay

I totally understand your annoyance if you are town, but you gotta realize I got to get the game moving and currently that's the only thread I can pull on, and I

will

abuse it as much as I can to move the game forward.

I'm not really impressed with your self meta and general reaction to my push. If you are town and want to help me sort you, can you answer these questions please:
Who do you think has acted in an actual scummy way or did things you can point out as scum-motivated, other than just not being out of their scumrange like DV?
What do you think of Kyo's recent posting?
What do you think about my interaction with Klick and our reads on each other? (I'm interested both in your thoughts about his read on me, and my read on him).

These questions aren't busywork btw, they will definitely help me sort you.

[DragonEater70]

@implosion: Then what do you think of my post which was basically the same thing?

Your post is rhetorically very different and also I think your group has a much higher chance of being all town

To elaborate because on rereading your post this is probably very unclear: the rhetorical difference that concerns me is that DragonEater's post is more dismissive in a sense. He essentially is saying "this is the solve, deal with it" where you're trying to actively work with your townreads (which is not a concerning pattern of gamestate to me).

Oh so

It was a joke mainly

I just wanted to take a break from the game and see what DV and Klick cooked up (which actually worked)

[T3]

I keep thinking this game is 7 players

there's also a part of me that wants to call this post like, really hard town for being the kind of thing scum would be very unlikely to genuinely think (because they have a scumbuddy they're interacting with/are probably more self-conscious about stuff) and also extremely unlikely to come up with the idea of faking

implosion is constantly saying things I agree with but I don't know if that makes him town.

[T3]

I love how you say you

used to

say "this is more likely to come from town than scum" in the past, and immediately follow it with "I think this posting is more likely to come from town than scum" (not saying this is alignment indicative, just find it funny). As a note, yeah that's an early game read, not a lategame read.

Also Klick can you help me out here? I think you should understand why I would consider a fast-paced, TvT-heavy game start to be superior to a slow and "wow everyone is so towny" game start, considering how well our last TvT-heavy game went. And this game I feel everyone is just TRing other people and trying not to step on anybody's toes (except me, Kyo, and you to a degree). Which makes it very hard to read people.

So if you can help me push this game into TvT (or even TvS) territory that'd help.

Pedit: to me, making it out like that philosophy should dictate my every thought is a "misrep" of my intentions, so that's what I call it.

Also, what do you make of DV's post being the way it is?

Feels performative IMO

I doubt you'd struggle to find reads if people aren't pushing each other but maybe

[Ydrasse]

Conflict isn't the friction that causes readable gamestates
Genuine engagement is

That's what I feel is lacking

I'll answer what you want though:

Feel pretty okay on you and VD, I would like you to sell me on Ydra though.

Like I think in a vacuum her posting is towny, BUT I

think

for her specifically it's NAI? I haven't ever played with her but I read a scum game and a town game of hers and couldn't really tell the difference.

if you think my posting is towny but you have some reservations (which tbqh this post makes little sense to me to say towny but also maybe not) go backwards and actually try to build a reason it’s wolfy rather than saying this which is … unproductive to say the least. if i’m a wolf there should be something there for you to actually go off of

[DragonEater70]

I am nit even saying you are wolfy

I am saying your posting is towny in a vacuum but probably NAI based on your specific scum game

Meaning that it's like null town

Also I should probably HURT: Appearance since they are also only null town

[Ydrasse]

okay but what i’m saying is you’re interpreting my posting this game based on a separate game that isn’t this one poorly and i think you would have better results in this one if you thought about my posts from the angle of “is there a wolfy agenda or motivation so far and if so what”

[Ydrasse]

like are you saying my posts are towny based on style? on tone? you need to qualify what exactly makes me towny but also isn’t valid due to this other game

i think if you’re saying my content itself, the points i’m making, are somehow not AI than lol

[DragonEater70]

I doubt you'd struggle to find reads if people aren't pushing each other but maybe

Are you kidding? I literally lurked half of BTXVIII (or whatever the number was, the one with the jesters) because I hated the gamestate where people were only trying to find town and felt I couldn't develop my reads properly.

[DragonEater70]

okay but what i’m saying is you’re interpreting my posting this game based on a separate game that isn’t this one poorly and i think you would have better results in this one if you thought about my posts from the angle of “

is there a wolfy agenda or motivation so far and if so what

”

So thing is, that's exactly the problem.

I've read Swinger's Hall where you were scum, and I didn't feel any of your posts had a wolfy agenda. Therefore I am making a deduction that your playstyle as a wolf doesn't look like you have an agenda, and therefore I am arriving at the conclusion that you not seeming to have a wolfy agenda is NAI, and that I need other ways to sort you.

Now what I would appreciate is if Klick, who correctly scumread you that game, explained to me what he saw that game that he isn't seeing here, or what is he seeing here that he didn't see that game, and then I could evaluate if there is indeed something that's objectively town indicative for you.

I AM leaning town on you FWIW.

[Elements]

Dragon were you town in that game with Keylaga?

[DragonEater70]

Yep

[Klick]

@Ydrasse: do you have a preferred alignment?

[Klick]

Or like, one you feel more confident/comfortable with

[DragonEater70]

Dragon were you town in that game with Keylaga?

Yep

Why?

[Elements]

Dragon were you town in that game with Keylaga?

Yep

Why?

you feel similar

[DragonEater70]

Oh

You don't, but you are town anyway.

[Ydrasse]

@Ydrasse: do you have a preferred alignment?

atm probably town
the last time i played scum i was miserable but i was also burned out horribly

[Elements]

You don't, but you are town anyway.

I you'd said I felt similar you would have needed to get your brain checked