Open 93 - Near Vanilla: Game Over, Mafia Win!

[Darox]

Can you be a little kind and you guys express in few words why I am scum? I only see "let me go back to find out why I thought that" shit.

No, I'm saying "I've already detailed why I think you're scum, so if you missed it tough, put on your reading monocle and go look for it."

[populartajo]

So, are you saying you're scum?

WTF, no. I was citing what you said about me "Im going to find out how I figured out you were scum".

Let me explain my process of thinking regarding RBT.

I thought RBT was scum after I reread. My top suspects were you and him.
Many people thought like me. His wagon is an indicator of this. In this period I think RBT is scum and that I have to find his scumpartners. All the kuribo is his scumpartner shit is from here. You cant blame me for this because almost everyone was doing this.
Then you start wondering. This guy is doing it on purpose. He is not being helpful for some reason. I meta him and he has been doing that in some games, regardless of alignment. And bam, I dont think his lynch is optimal anymore. I mean he could be scum, but why is he doing this. (This is the same situation that we are facing now with K7).
So I asked him some questions. He never answered. Then he made a couple of stupid votes. Votes for me and then for Darox. Obv he is either scum WIFOMing like crazy or useless frust townie. He still doesnt anwer questions. Nobody seems to suspect anyone but him.

Now Darox and Kuribo.
Look, if you are town you are going to go back and find reasons to vote me. Quote them if you have said them before. Give me the number of the post. Its not that hard. I tried to go back and read your reasons but I dont find anything. So, if you dont post the reasons why you think I am scum, I am going to assume you dont have them and you are scum.

[Darox]

Ofc I am paying attention to the f..n' game "hurr hurr kuribo wtf are you doing?" Do you have any idea why RBT doesnt think you and me arent scum even though you have voted for him almost a month now?
The same question goes to RBT.
And to all the other readers, I dont know why I feel kuribo is sure RBT is going to come up scum. Or am I going crazy?
In other news, Darox needs to post.

Did you just accuse yourself and kuribo of being RBT's scumbuddies trying to buss him?

Come on, really?

When did we and has become confirmed lazy townies?
Yeah, scum one down.
Kuribo, any comments on the death of your scumparnter?

Just called Kuribo RBT's scum partner.

Ofc I am paying attention to the f..n' game "hurr hurr kuribo wtf are you doing?" Do you have any idea why RBT doesnt think you and me arent scum even though you have voted for him almost a month now?

Implies that the reason RBT hasn't voted for kuribo despite kuribo voting for him is because of scum buddery. Also groups Kuribo with yourself.

So yeah, I found my man.

Vote: Populartajo

For now,

Vote: Darox

Still thinking kuribo is the best lynch. Depending on RBT's and Darox's next post Ill decide my lynch for the day.

It's a shame I'm already voting you, because otherwise I would vote you for this.

Kuribo is your top suspect and you feel he is likely scum, but you're going to vote for someone you consider to be 'unhelpful' over him?

What's the matter, get cold feet and decide to stop the bus? Can you please explain to me why you suddenly don't consider Kuribo, your top suspect, worthy of lynching?

I said I wanted kuribo lynched. I still do.

Thats why Id prefer Kuribo. Im going to make a post rereading him soon.

Oh really? Then why, pray tell, are you not voting for him?

Now, you, I didnt like how you only posted as soon as I asked for you to post. Also I didnt like your reaction to my reasoning some pages ago. What was that, Darox?

Got to love this distortion. You didn't ask me to post recently. As for your previous 'reasoning', you had posted why you suspected kuribo to be RBT's scum partner, but in the process of this you included yourself with kuribo, effectively implying that everything you said for kuribo being RBT's scum partner was also true for you. Now you may be thinking "Why is that scummy", well, I'll tell you. By grouping himself with kuribo tajo sets himself up to have a weak argument presented against himself. "Hang on, RBT hasn't attacked you either! You must be RBT's real scum partner and trying to implicate kuribo!" This argument (As well as his initial reasoning for why kuribo could be RBT's scumparter) is fallacious and easy to disprove, and by dispelling such an argument he could make himself appear more townish than before, and also implies he didn't really believe in his words when he said kuribo was RBT's scumpartner.

RBT, thoughts of Darox and his last post.
I will answer it tomorrow.

I think you should respond to it first rather than evading it and getting others to sound it out beforehand.

No, TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS, DAMN.
RBT posted this:

Just so you all know, if you let the scum lynch me today, retro and has should be the first two to go after me.

He had four attackers: retro, has, kuribo and myself.
I singled kuribo and myself BECAUSE RBT EXCLUDED US, NOT ME.
All your posterior hypothesis and arguments based on your stupid theory dont make sense taking in count what I just said.
I have no idea why you keep pushing this even though Ive explained a hundred times.

I think kuribo is RBT's scumpartner. They are both my top suspects for a reason. Read my previous posts. The fact that RBT suspects has and retro and not me and kuribo, even though we all find him suspect, seems strange to me.

So you either pushed what you knew was a fallacious point against kuribo by calling him RBT's scum partner because it could easily be applied to yourself, but carefully ignoring that fact, or you were doing what I said you were doing here. Both of which are scum moves.

What exactly are you accusing me of?
Why the hell cant I think that RBT can be scumpartner with kuribo, specially taking into account that both were my top suspects for some time?
Do you AT LEAST understand my train of thought?
RBT excluded myself and kuribo and said that retro and has needed to die when ALL FOUR were doing basically the same thing: suspecting him hard.

I know I am town, then WHY CANT I THINK RBT EXCLUDED KURIBO for some idiotic reason, especially the one where they could be scumpartners?

What are your thoughts of RBT? Stop evading THAT QUESTION.

That right there.
"I know I'm town, so kuribo who is in the exact same position MUST BE SCUM!"

Ofc it would be idiotic to make an argument based on my only knowledge of my town condition.
Im only explaining Darox what was my process of thinking for that prob acenario.

No, your making an argument ignoring this, which is just as bad.

I guess you just happened to miss this small part where I showed reasons why I suspected you.

[hasdgfas]

In other news, Im also tired of being the only one giving a shit about this game. KOC still needs to answer questions and I know he's active. Darox and kuribo still need to post why they think I am scum when I bet they dont even have a read in K7 and KOC. That is ridiculous. K7 is meh and Im going to hate him forever if he doesnt start playing right now, regardless of alignment.
................
Has, a K7 vote is really what we need in Lylo? Do you think its valid that Darox and kuribo think Im scum?

I care about this game. I'm watching this interaction between you and kuribo/darox very carefully.

Yes, a k7 vote is what we need in lylo. I don't have more than 2 suspects that aren't k7 that I feel comfortable in.

I would like to note, however, that I don't like tajo's appeal to emotion in 1126.

Look, if you are town you are going to go back and find reasons to vote me.

[populartajo]

Darox, I guess you also missed the part where I show why every of your reasons are not valid, right?
Has, thats not appeal to emotion. Do you agree with the reasons kuribo and Darox are showing?

[hasdgfas]

Has, thats not appeal to emotion. Do you agree with the reasons kuribo and Darox are showing?

why yes, actually. I haven't seen good defenses of them, as far as I can remember.

[Darox]

Darox, I guess you also missed the part where I show why every of your reasons are not valid, right?

Waving your hands and saying "It's not valid!" doesn't make it so.

[populartajo]

Darox, I guess you also missed the part where I show why every of your reasons are not valid, right?

Waving your hands and saying "It's not valid!" doesn't make it so.

Waving yours and saying "Its valid" doesnt make it so also.
The only reason I see in all your quotes is that retarded assumption that I am scum because I singled myself with kuribo which I thought was his scumpartner.
I EXPLAINED IT A MILLION TIMES.
RBT posted this:

Just so you all know, if you let the scum lynch me today, retro and has should be the first two to go after me.

People suspecting him were: "Retro, has, kuribo and populartajo"
So I posted this.

Ofc I am paying attention to the f..n' game "hurr hurr kuribo wtf are you doing?" Do you have any idea why RBT doesnt think you and me arent scum even though you have voted for him almost a month now?
The same question goes to RBT.

Then you vote me for the worst reason ever and the I explain to kuribo.

No. I want Rice to explain what does diferentiate has-retro from kuribo and me. Since I know Im town, this makes me think about RBT-kuribo scumpair.
This isnt so hard to understand, right?

Darox, you are not reading, why?

[kuribo]

Let's start with this:

Kuribo really felt scummy after that argument with retrowiz, pushing it to levels of bringing back things to make him look worse. I am not sure if he has left the topic entirely or wants to bring it back again.
Rice, in the other hand is still supporting a retro vote with zero support. So prob scum too looking for easy targets.
Oh and Darox needs to post the reasons why he thought retro was a good lynch.
K7 feels off. He really feels off.

Your argument against me boils down, as I said before, that I argued with retro about things in the past. SO WHAT?

I had to reiterate to you why I dropped it. Because you clearly ignored the reason I dropped the argument. (ie, I got a satisfactory response from retro) This was clearly YOU bringing up stuff from the past, and trying to stir a pot that had been taken off of the burner. After I reiterated it, we get this:

Kay, lets go with your scumbuddy then. Let's see if he is good at answering too.

Unvote Vote : RBT.

If you thought I was scum, why did you vote RBT? Why not come after me? Was it easier to get RBT lynched?

From there, you're all over RBT like stink on the Detroit Lions. Which I don't down you for, really. The guy who decides to be anti-town needs to swing. What I *am* downing you for is the manner in which you did it. You accused me of being his scumbuddy, and saw that I wouldn't be as easy to get a lynch on, so you went after the next target. Clearly you were trying to instigate another "rage hammer" on my part. (ie, "SCUMBUDDY THIS!") But the problem with that, is that I had been leery of RBT anyway.

You are being ext antitown and it would suck that you get lynched as town when we havent even lynched a mafia.

That was directed at RBT. The bandwagon against him is littered with statements like this, "Ugh, I REALLY hope you're not town!" It betrays your true intent: To be on a bandwagon against a scummy player, whom you know to be town, and excuse yourself in the future for this. ie, "Crap, I can't believe I was wrong, RBT, you suck for looking so anti-town!"

Your statements "linking" RBT and I as scumbuddies are clearly based in fiction, as I pointed out, and it's an obvious (and lame) attempt to fish a reaction.

Do you have any idea why RBT doesnt think you and me arent scum even though you have voted for him almost a month now?

And then we get into the whole thing we went over 100 times. Why should RBT think I'm scum if I was voting him? Why not you? As many of us said then, unless he were your scum partner (which we see now that he isn't) he wouldn't know your alignment. Trying to encourage OMGUS is in no way helpful to the town. (ie, RBT should think one of us is scum just because we're voting him) So what? He KNOWS he acts anti-town. He made it a POINT to act anti-town. He had to expect the votes to pour on.

Which is why I am asking him why did he do it.
About kuribo, there's something fishy in his pushing for your case even though he was voting for RBT very early and in the crazy idea that he is so sure about his alignment right now

In which you try to paint my questioning of retro as something scummy. I'm sorry, but we can't all claim to have found every single scum all at once. So, just because I was voting RBT, I'm expected not to question retro, either?

Do you sincerely think retro and RBT are like a scumpair?

What was the point of this? Fishing for a reaction? Maybe you and retro are scum together and you wanted to know if you should start bussing him?

Unvote

Maybe RBT isnt the best lynch today.
There is something wrong with mykonian and KOC supporting this wagon.
Mykonian, how a read of K7 can determine RBT is scum?
KOC, care to expand your case against RBT?

There's where you decide to distance yourself from the bandwagon by taking him off L-1 (even though his behavior has gotten even scummier by this juncture). Your damage is done at this point, and you're hoping that the town just coasts towards the mislynch.

And by the way, you later vote Darox while claiming that I'm your top suspect. But isn't this what you said I did to retro / RBT? Then you hammer RBT.

So, to reiterate:

At the time of RBT's lynch, you thought I was scum, voted Darox, and then hammered RBT, telling him you really would hate him if he's town.

SEE ALL OF THIS STUFF WAS LIKE LESS THAN TEN PAGES AGO, DID I REALLY HAVE TO RECAP ALL OF IT?!

[kuribo]

Also, what exactly was wrong with mykonian and KoC supporting the RBT wagon? Mykonian flipped town.

If you thought RBT and I were scumbuddies--- genuinely thought, that is--- why would you be disturbed that mykonian and KoC hopped onto the bandwagon? It's an Open setup, there couldn't have possibly been that many scum.

Or was that just another example of throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks? (spaghetti works better)

[Darox]

Darox, I guess you also missed the part where I show why every of your reasons are not valid, right?

Waving your hands and saying "It's not valid!" doesn't make it so.

Waving yours and saying "Its valid" doesnt make it so also.
The only reason I see in all your quotes is that retarded assumption that I am scum because I singled myself with kuribo which I thought was his scumpartner.
I EXPLAINED IT A MILLION TIMES.
RBT posted this:

Just so you all know, if you let the scum lynch me today, retro and has should be the first two to go after me.

People suspecting him were: "Retro, has, kuribo and populartajo"
So I posted this.

Ofc I am paying attention to the f..n' game "hurr hurr kuribo wtf are you doing?" Do you have any idea why RBT doesnt think you and me arent scum even though you have voted for him almost a month now?
The same question goes to RBT.

Then you vote me for the worst reason ever and the I explain to kuribo.

No. I want Rice to explain what does diferentiate has-retro from kuribo and me. Since I know Im town, this makes me think about RBT-kuribo scumpair.
This isnt so hard to understand, right?

Darox, you are not reading, why?

If you actually read what I wrote and indeed recently quoted, you would know that I already explained why everything you just said here is either false or inaccurate.

[retrowiz]

has/darox/kub,

you ll seem to be focusing on pop right now. I'd like you each to give me 1 scum partner with him. and I wont accept k7 as an answer.

[retrowiz]

I also dont like that we have 2 votes up in lylo situation. I think that info is very telling.

I don't like Pop as the lynch for today.

[hasdgfas]

has/darox/kub,

you ll seem to be focusing on pop right now. I'd like you each to give me 1 scum partner with him. and I wont accept k7 as an answer.

I'm voting k7. I think he's scum. Note how he hasn't been quicklynched.

1 scum partner with tajo? that isn't k7? hmm. you?

I don't like Pop as the lynch for today.

saying this without any reasoning is my reasoning.

[Darox]

darox/has/kuribo/tajo: you seem to be the only people playing. how about that, huh?

Oh and I'm going to go back to an old post of mine.

No, I don't need any other suspects. We can only lynch one person a day.

It seems like your trying to find a bad reason to discredit the tajo suspicion by saying we don't have his partners pegged down though, so if I had to pick someone I'd pick you.

[populartajo]

The case on me is crap, Darox. And you cant find me any scumpartners because Im not scum.
I gave you a chance to explain but really its the best you can come up with?

Unvote Vote: Darox.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Ill answer kuribo when I have the time. At least hes trying.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Darox - I can't help but feel that the only people who benefit from a quick, undiscussed lynch, which is what you seem to be going for on tajo, are scum. We don't need to necessarily nail down hypothetical scumpartners for if tajo flips scum, but it certainly helps to have some dialogue in that area before a lynch.

[populartajo]

Darox - I can't help but feel that the only people who benefit from a quick, undiscussed lynch, which is what you seem to be going for on tajo, are scum. We don't need to necessarily nail down hypothetical scumpartners for if tajo flips scum, but it certainly helps to have some dialogue in that area before a lynch.

Hello, KOC. What did you find in your reread?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm still doing it - this game got relegated down my list a little, but I'm keeping roughly abreast until I get round to it. I'm leaving for the holidays on Sunday, so I'll have the read finished and some thoughts tomorrow, so you all know where I stand.

Mod: my holiday is until the 4th/5th January - I was unaware of it until after I replaced - and while I would like to stick around I understand if you want to replace.

[Darox]

When did I ever say we should have a quick undiscussed lynch?
I'm completely open and willing to hear reasons why you think tajo may or may not be scum, but talking about scum partners right now is a waste of time.

It's a short road from thinking about scum partners to WIFOM hell, and right now we don't need to peg every scum, we just need to lynch one scum today, and go from there tomorrow.

So if you have reasons why you think tajo isn't scum or an alternative, feel free to share them, but talking about scum partners is nothing more than a distraction and a way to let scum wriggle out of the lynch by dismissing any argument against them by avoiding them saying "I can't possibly be scum partners with XYZ" or "There's nobody linked to me, I must be town".

You know, like tajo's trying to do when he says "You can't find any scum partners so I'm not scum."

[populartajo]

Darox, is it logical to think that if a player doesnt have strong scumlinks with anyone in the game, he isnt scum?
Anyways, my reason to vote you has been crap case.

[Korts]

Mod: my holiday is until the 4th/5th January - I was unaware of it until after I replaced - and while I would like to stick around I understand if you want to replace.

I can offer this: I will look for an explicitly

temporary

replacement and I'll give you a free pass back into your role when you come back from your holiday.

[Darox]

Darox, is it logical to think that if a player doesnt have strong scumlinks with anyone in the game, he isnt scum?

Talking about scum partners is nothing more than a distraction and a way to let scum wriggle out of the lynch by dismissing any argument against them by avoiding them saying "I can't possibly be scum partners with XYZ" or "There's nobody linked to me, I must be town".

You know, like tajo's trying to do when he says "You can't find any scum partners so I'm not scum."

Anyways, my reason to vote you has been crap case.

This isn't a rebuttal. Saying my case is bad neither discredits my case nor improves yours. Unless you provide some evidence, this is nothing more than empty words.

Unless you're describing your own case, in which case I agree that since it has been based largely on calling my legitimate points against you crap with no further explaination that it is indeed a crap case.

[kuribo]

has/darox/kub,

you ll seem to be focusing on pop right now. I'd like you each to give me 1 scum partner with him. and I wont accept k7 as an answer.

I don't believe in looking for phantom links to people whose alignment is unknown.

Lynch one scum one day, since that's all we can lynch in one day anyway. Then we worry about the rest. That's how I've always played.