In post 1274, DragonEater70 wrote:
fireisred, what time is it in the land of crimson flame? Because I think your time might be up but I am too charitable so I'm willing to give you a bit more time if you really need it.
idk i don't see why voting matters unless you think we're going to end day right away
maybe we are but i don't really see why we would do that
im content to like continue trying to solve and then later y'all lim me anyway if you want to do that
Well I'm kinda feeling like you might bw limmed but maybe that's just me reading the gamestate incorrectly.
yes i do also think i will very likely be limmed here, as in this day phase, but i was saying that i don't really expect that people will want to end the day like. immediately right now
In post 1217, DragonEater70 wrote:
Can you explain to me the progression from a massive TR on me to top SR, which according to what you have posted so far is based ONLY on my reaction to gob's death? Like does a different reaction ping you THAT MUCH that you'd completely abandon your previous read? Or were there more elements to it which you haven't expressed?
It's less 'you're my top scumread based only on the gob's death reaction' and more 'this has really pinged me and I want to explore the possibility that my townread on you is inaccurate'
I abandoned an overall opinion on you for the moment in favor of putting weight towards a new finding
If the new finding was explainable from town!Dragon and made sense, I can map that onto what I already have for town!Dragon
If the new finding was not explainable from town!Dragon or didn't make sense, I might need to reeval more generally
All evidence points to the correct conclusion looked at under the right lens
I'm taking different lenses and trying to make sense of them
fml can you both stop having good reasons to be either town or scum
It's really annoying me
can you like summarize what your reasons are for me being town or scum
Scum:
you still haven't really done what I asked you to do which is to make up your mind and have an actual read on the Dragon v Klick thing which FYPOV should contain one scum. It feels like you are trying to keep both options open.
Town:
Tbh only that you hated the posts by Klick that I also hated. And also the things I initially TR'd Kyo for, which was her approach to forming a coalition.
In post 1275, implosion wrote:
I do think if he flips scum I'd probably just want T3 next though if he flips town it might mean T3 is town given how T3 is playing today.
In post 1303, DragonEater70 wrote:
you still haven't really done what I asked you to do which is to make up your mind and have an actual read on the Dragon v Klick thing which FYPOV should contain one scum. It feels like you are trying to keep both options open.
In post 1275, implosion wrote:
I do think if he flips scum I'd probably just want T3 next though if he flips town it might mean T3 is town given how T3 is playing today.
how come you are talking about Klick as if he's your bigger SR
your whole point earlier was that i was scum bc i was sitting on the fence too much and kept being unsure who was scum between you and klick, so idk why this is confusing to you
i hadn't really explicitly talked about what my doubts were on klick and so i thought it would be useful to do that both bc then i could better see for myself if i felt they were valid and also so that i don't feel dumb for having died without saying them
but then over the course of writing that post i started to lean towards thinking the doubts weren't that significant compared to the towny things i feel klick has done
Yes I was SRing you for sitting on the fence
Right now I am confused because I don't understand your read trajectory. If you could clarify it I would be less confused. I don't see how not understanding your read trajectroy is at odds with previously SRing you for seemingly having no reads trajectory. If anything, it makes a lot of sense to happen.
In post 1275, implosion wrote:
I do think if he flips scum I'd probably just want T3 next though if he flips town it might mean T3 is town given how T3 is playing today.
In post 1275, implosion wrote:
I do think if he flips scum I'd probably just want T3 next though if he flips town it might mean T3 is town given how T3 is playing today.
In post 1285, fireisredsir wrote:
ok idk why i had been putting off looking at this again for so long and ive just been like sitting in a puddle of zero wim sorry about that
i was gonna go to sleep but i want to put this out there while its fresh on my mind. i know now it's probably too late so whatever my bad but hear me out
the thing that really never made sense to me about dragon being scum was the end of coalition forming. he had a lot of what felt like towny energy, and was just all over the place, and it didn't make sense to me bc i didn't see why any of that benefited scum or made sense at all coming from a scum approach to the game. it just really felt like town unsure what direction to go
but!
we know from dragon scum games that he actually has that kind of energy a lot of the time as scum. see these kind of posts from fruit mafia scum pt:
OR, we lim Skitter and tomorrow I claim cop with N1 inno on Datisi and N2 inno on you and we ignore atsi pushing me.
It's a really risky strat but it is still a valid one.
In post 140, DragonEater70 wrote:
It's pretty bold and also probably anti-wincon for scum which is why I would get hella townread for doing it out the gate.
In post 181, DragonEater70 wrote:
Okay I just came up with the best freaking idea for a fake claim
Like I think it's pretty risky but it's funny as hell and I think if I pull it off well then Datisi and Skitter would absolutely eat it up.
We lim atsi, nightkill Ausuka, then I say I viggied her because I realized her miller claim must be fake, and also the reason I town read Skitter so hard D1 is I was sure Skitter was a cop and that's why they TR'd Ausuka for claiming miller, but D2 I realized Skitter wasn't a cop so my TR of her dropped and it made me realize there's probably no cop so Ausuka is fakeclaiming.
Idk if this makes any sense whatsoever, it's probably a horrible strat, but it's so damn funny to think about and I don't see Datisi going "yeah that's scum" but rather "oh I guess that makes sense"
And the banana peel thing would justify why scum didn't kill.
K the more I think about it the worse it sounds but I still want to try it if circumstances allow it.
In post 218, DragonEater70 wrote:
But I was thinking about killing Datisi rolecopping Skitt and if they are VT (which I'm 95% sure they are) pocket them by saying I was sure they were cop the whole time (I actually have a good explanation of why I would think that), which would
probably
make me seem extremely uninformed. And then I just lament Datisi's death and sheep Skitter and it's GG.
Spoiler:
my prediction is that your response would be something like "we don't need to do that, we extremely well positioned, etc."
But the point is whether or not we kill Dats.
I'll tell you what, I really want to No Kill and frame it as Skitter trying to kill Datisi but getting roleblocked by the banana that Infinity planted. But I can't think of any believable claim to justify why we would know that Datisi was the NK target.
Ao first, do you like the idea? And second, can you think of any claim?
Otherwise we might beed to just kill Datisi, as unfortunate as that would be.
like absolutely wild ideas, and they just keep pouring out while ari is just in there like "uhhhh i don't think we need to do that"
he hasn't had that kind of chaotic over-planning energy in every scum game but it's definitely in there somewhere. and in this game, where he was largely in a good position, widely townread, etc etc, it doesn't seem like there would be the the kind of pressure that would induce that kind of behavior
except... for if he gets asked to choose the coalition. that alone might not do it. but what i think would cause that kind of genuine level of stress and confusion over which direction to go, would be if he is pushed into a place where he has to make a decision between keeping his partner in and keeping his partner out, while also making it believably look like a town thought process
here's the general progression in the last day or so of coalition forming:
Whoever I heal from now on will remain healed forever and ever.
In post 485, DragonEater70 wrote:
There's also the fact that she actually feels like she cares a lot more than DV feels like he cares, tbh. Like Klick you said you TR DV because he cares but literally every post Kyo made since 360 feels like she really cares and is genuinely trying to solve here and doesn't want to get it wrong. She could have easily just gone with Appearance but didn't.
Pedit: I get why you're annoyed. I think either of implo/T3 or implo/DV are more likely than implo/Kyo tbh.
What do you say about a coal of dragon/app/el/dv/ydra?
Then I won't have the paranoia about you and I am even going to as far as to say I will town lock you if it fails, if it's any consolation.
Pedit: no Klick is just too towny I can't resist having him in the coalition
In post 564, DragonEater70 wrote:
See the problem is everyone except implo and T3 is really towny
And I am kinda refusing to believe the game is just this easy, though maybe it really is this easy.
It's funny Klick that I feel if Bella was in your slot I would have had so much easier time being confident in my town read of your slot. I mean it's funny because I was thinking about her without making the connection in my mind.
Okay seriously I need to sleep and if this fails then it fails
It's just a game
Goodnight
Feel free to either sheep this or tell Kyo to hammer the other one. Klick is in charge.
i think the pattern here looks pretty close to how i would expect it to look if scum dragon were debating on whether or not to go for one of those risky gambit type plays, if his partner is among [dv, klick, kyo, elements]
i think it doesn't make any sense at all paired with t3 or implosion, bc they were never really in the conversation. but any of those, i could see it happening. and i don't think he's paired with klick. so that leaves DV
and generally i think DV's approach here does fit really well with having a partner who is widely townread and basically a lock for the coalition
AND dragon fits the very stereotypical scum coalition pattern of: initially amplify townreads on partner to get both in a good position, then when one of you is widely townread, scumread your partner to push them out, and then basically forget about the scumread as soon as coalition passes
i think thats one of the biggest things standing out to me right now actually. the shift in approach from dragon between when coalition was forming and now is massive. at that point, everything was about overall gamestate, analyzing teams, working with poes, generally trying to look as towny as possible. but now i don't get the impression that he's trying to solve the game as a whole at all. there's been multiple instances where it's felt like he's pointedly ignored considering who could be the partner of the person he's pushing. it's just a completely different way of looking at the game, and yes, the gamestate has changed, but if you look at for example t3/implo/klick, the way they're currently solving still feels like the same general approach they had earlier in the game, and i think that comes from a town mindset of genuinely wanting to solve the game
You do realize I ended up implementing 0 of these wild ideas that game?
In post 1303, DragonEater70 wrote:
Scum:
you still haven't really done what I asked you to do which is to make up your mind and have an actual read on the Dragon v Klick thing which FYPOV should contain one scum. It feels like you are trying to keep both options open.
how would keeping both options open be at all beneficial to me as scum in the current gamestate?
In post 1319, fireisredsir wrote:
for someone who is apparently scumreading and trying to sort me it sure seems like dragon has very little interest in actually reading my posts
Tbh I did not see 1285 at all until after I made these posts so
