Open 901 - Normal Idea Mafia Redux - Postgame

[Alianna]

Bloop

[DragonEater70]

So, uh, I said I'd read the game today or something, but I've been incredibly busy IRL so instead I am not going to do that.

I am hiwver going to claim because I think I saw something about a massclaim? I am a Town Night 4 Neapolitan, which seems like a pretty useless role tbh (unless one of you claimed vanilla? IDK I only remeber that Aureal claimed Backup Miller).

[DragonEater70]

By the way DE, don't think I haven't noticed you putting off claiming in order to read the game first.

-Atalanta

I mean

I put off playing in general until I read the game but at this stage it's not rly viable.

I would go to sleep this minute but there's a game in the Open Queue I kinda need to make the thread for.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Hm. Shame, that.

Argon, what do you think I am?

[Argonauts]

Well you're obviously crumbing something about Save the Dragons so I expect you can go ahead with whatever result you have there, and then we can proceed with trying to figure out if it's real or fake or a bus or whatever.

-Atalanta

[Jake The Wolfie]

I suppose the time is drawing near, yes.

I would like to post in-full both my claim and what my conclusions are based on what has gaooened in thread during my lunch break. It should be in no less than a few hours, possibly within the hour.

[shaddowez]

Completely ignoring claims for the moment StD, largely based on voting records.

Especially

considering this could be multiball.

Not liking Argo's claim/explanation either. Seems convenient that there was a "crumb" and then chose backup miller after a miller was claimed. The "I was afraid I was gonna get vigged" is based on 72 and 236, so something's just not sitting right with me there.

I don't think this is multiball?

On mobile so can't just quote the one line from the rules, but it says the antitown players have an equal chance of being mafia or werewolf, unless that's for the entire faction?

Any thoughts on Lucca?

DE hasn't done anything to change my mind since 1500, but as far as I can tell Black was the only other person that agreed.

[Argonauts]

Setup Information

Setup Creation

1. The game is guaranteed to contain:
- 10 players aligned with the

town

- 3 players aligned with an anti-town faction that has an equal chance to be

mafia

or

werewolves

- 1

serial killer

aligned with themself

You mean this??

-Atalanta

[shaddowez]

That's the one

[Jake The Wolfie]

I am a Town Loyal Checker, and last night my ability failed on Progon, likely meaning that they are scum.

(For the previous days, I checked Roden on N1, but they are dead now. On N2, I checked Black and very publically pushed them the day after.)

Here are some of my crumbles:

Spoiler: dabadeedabadai, dabadi dadubi

Some basic NKA:

Hu Tao was probably a Mafia kill. Given that there were generally good vibes all around, Hu Tao wasn't a

loyal

townread to everyone, but they were generally townread.
Not_Mafia was probably an SK kill. Not only because of the above, but also Mafia are unlikely to kill their prized cow, aiming to axe them instead.

I'll have to go back and

check

D1 to update this analysis.

Jake, did you read the ISOs of both Shaddow/STD during the night as well?

Unfortunately, my

loyalties

for that time were spend elsewhere.

At least I read up on Black and got a neat little justification for scumreading them.

I would've gone with (as though this is surprising) Shadez, Black, and Dragons.

Mainly Dragons. I'll reeval Shadez and Black over the night

So I checked out Black on the overnight

and I.. didn't like what I was seeing


Also, Jackson. Would you care to explain why our good friend Jacob was found to be suspicious underneath your watching eye? I think you need to claim good sir.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[Lucca had questioned whether or not this was me claiming a redcheck on Black, good on them.]

or did you check her ISO

I looked over her case file, and I found that her actions were not for the town.

As for today, I have the general feeling that Argon rightfully caught that I had found something on Progon (their confirmation was helpful) and had started pre-emtively pushing their only logical choice, Antigon [I will henceforth be calling Antigon "Neugon" from now on.] As previously mentioned, Lucca had also caught that I may be crumbing something, so this is not a slam dunk.

Really, I've been having a fair bit of trouble deciding between Neugon and Argon. Both of them have had questionable and suspicious histories, as though mirroring one another.

I am very tempted to say that the severe antagonism between Jackson and Argon have shown to eachother in the past was theater, at least to Jackson (Just look at how antagonostic that Jackson was to Claptastick) but those are dark and swampy waters to wade in. Instead, we can walk the path on contraction, where Jackson interracted with Lucca. In some posts like the ones below, Jackson seems to just dislike and distrust Lucca, rather than being openly antagonistic.

Spoiler: why does yt shorts keep showing me clips from house md.

Based on lucca's posts he definitely scumread Jackson for asking so many questions. Maybe we have different definitions of shade but to me it seems like lucca was trying to make Jackson look bad with that question

Yeah, I feel it's pretty clear through his wording that he scum-read me (to what degree, who knows) and it didn't feel like he was asking me a question just making a point, similar line of logic to what I was saying about clap. I just wanna wait for him to answer my question before I let anybody know what I'm concluding atm

One was about Clap's entitlement, the other about Lucca's shade on me

you tell me you have made a list of all 150 roles, knew exactly which ones could interfere with your action and then on the following night just randomly picks an ascetic player to investigate

like this is a very inconsistent effort level

I made an oversight with their claim, it happened very early. Those two things are not the same, why are you comparing it

Personally, I think that Argon is more likely to be mafia here than Neugon.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Anyway, that's that post. I'm sleeping now.

[Argonauts]

Oh boy, another Loyal claim.

@mod: A Loyal action used by a Town player will still succeed on a Miller (barring other interference), correct?

[Alianna]

Oh boy, another Loyal claim.

@mod: A Loyal action used by a Town player will still succeed on a Miller (barring other interference), correct?

Correct, loyal abilities are not deceived by millers.

[Argonauts]

It's a little hard for me to believe that Jake can look at Jackson's interactions and decide that his attitude towards me is theater like what he believes to be the case between Jackson and Claptastik. Jackson had long-winded conversations with both Clap and Jake. My attempts to interact with Jackson were met with him totally shooting me down in a way that shows he clearly just wanted to discredit me rather than interact, throughout the game. Like these:

Nor do I agree that thinking it could be best to take out the SK first is a scumtell. Especially when you're just coming out and saying it like that.

How is it not? Is this a cultural difference? The only people who should care about taking out/focusing the SK are the mafia. Town should just be focusing on who is wolfy

Town can win with the SK?!?

-Atalanta

Talk to me when you're not going to be a dick

I'd like to hear more from Jackson on why he decided to target Jacob's slot.

What a silly ass question

Furthermore, Jake seems to be totally overlooking how yesterday I was pressuring both Jackson and Dragons (who is basically confirmed scum from his POV) and it was others like himself who forced it to end in a Skygazer/shaddowez showdown. So I'm not terribly convinced Jake is on the level here, though the earlier crumbing helps a bit with that. I don't particularly need to convince

him

that I'm town here since if he makes it to 3P with me only the presence of a scum roleblocker will allow for him to not know what the solve is.

I haven't town-locked shaddowez yet, though I agree he's the most likely to be town. A good part of it is the claim, and the likely scum-driven wagon on him is also a factor.

Dragons is just the most obvious choice to be scum here, it's hard to see a world where he isn't. shaddowez/lucca where lucca was constantly on shaddowez is pretty lol. lucca/Jake I'd have to look into a little more but both trying to push the same townie yesterday seems a little off. Jake/shaddowez with Jake swinging hard for shaddowez over Sky last day doesn't seem at all likely.

And DE/lucca I've already been eyeing today even though lucca was a townread. I don't know if he's dropped past Jake yet, I'll have to think about that a little more with the new info.

-Atalanta

[Jake The Wolfie]

[...]
Furthermore, Jake seems to be totally overlooking how yesterday I was pressuring both Jackson and Dragons (who is basically confirmed scum from his POV) and it was others like himself who forced it to end in a Skygazer/shaddowez showdown. [...]

-Atalanta

I looked into this, looking through both your and Lucca's D3 play, and you did push for Progon to get axed, voted them, even. The main issue is that Lucca also didn't townread Progon yesterday, which is another symmetry. (I swear, if Black roleblocked me and it turns out that both you and Neugon are both scum, I'll have a fit.)

There is one asymmetry between you two: your take on Jackson. While Lucca arguably left the door open for Jackson to be town, you demonstrably nailed that door shut. However, I'm discounting this as Jackson was a lost wolf, which would mean that the scum would've had to figure out that he was their lost wolf. If Neugon wants to, they can dig through Jackson's and Progon's ISO to see if there's any indication that Progon knew they were a lost wolf.

[Argonauts]

Mafia would know they have a traitor. Mafia knew Jackson was likely their traitor there because only the SK blocking him could realistically explain what he was doing otherwise. (I suppose he could technically have been the SK in their eyes too, but that's such insane play for a 3P that I don't think it's getting seriously considered.) So, good odds they would at least be pretty comfortable with him rather than wanting to push him.

-Atalanta

[Jake The Wolfie]

@Moderator: Would a Mafia Traitor know their teammate's roles, or just who they are?

[Alianna]

@Moderator: Would a Mafia Traitor know their teammate's roles, or just who they are?

Just who they are.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Mafia would know they have a traitor. Mafia knew Jackson was likely their traitor there because only the SK blocking him could realistically explain what he was doing otherwise. (I suppose he could technically have been the SK in their eyes too, but that's such insane play for a 3P that I don't think it's getting seriously considered.) So, good odds they would at least be pretty comfortable with him rather than wanting to push him.

-Atalanta

While unlikely, it may have been possible for the mafia to have roleblocked Jackson on that night.

[Argonauts]

Yeah, that too, thought I had mentioned that but changed my wording and left it out. Also not a high probability occurence.

And if they did happen to block him they would probably estimate the odds of him lying about his role to be much lower than they actually were. And thus likely wouldn't be too keen to push him because they'd expect to be in trouble when Jackson flipped town.

-Atalanta

[Save The Dragons]

if your ability failed what do you think happened

i am not scum

could you have been roleblocked?

[Jake The Wolfie]

I could've been, Black was part roleblocker after all. However, from my perspective there would need to be a few things that would need to be explained for you to not be scum. These include:

- Neugon's lack of thread presence and thread awareness, where Argon (or myself if you fancy) is their teammate.
- Argon's turn on Neugon after I hinted that I had something on you, but didn't know what.
- - If Argon were scum and I was roleblocked, they could reasonably suspect that I was pulling a reaction test.
- That your voting history is, by your own admission, bad.

[DragonEater70]

Am I Neugon now?

Also

I probably shouldn't have replaced in, sorry for my horrible thread presence, I'll try to read now even though I'm actually shirking real life responsibilities for that.

[DragonEater70]

I think I'm just gonna read like the last 5 pages and pretend it's enough to form meaningful reads

Or that's what I'd do if this wasn't ELo.

Bah, I kinda want to just sheep Jake.

[DragonEater70]

Wait