Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[Prism]

That is one of the single worst takes I have seen in my entire life and it is not close. I don't mind burning a post saying it.

Revisit.

[Prism]

VOTE: Sunflower

[Sunflower]

VOTE: Prism

[Silver Ravens]

VOTE: Sunflowers

[Prism]

VOTE: No elim

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Prism

[Von Payne]

I agree that Aureal and Hu need to do more(heyo, Drew calling the kettle Black), I could get a read on them better the more they post......which is why I have a slight scum lean on Hu as she seems to be willfully not engaging much

I have strong town pings from Prism, and Kyo's re-entrance seems townie enough......at least I will buy that effort as townie for now lol

Black is doing her thing with Gimli, I don't really have much of a read on him......but I will trust Black do do her thing for now with him.......I still am distrusting of Dragon, but what else is new lol

Oh on that topic, Silver Raven, I was pushing you a bit on your Dragon read.......I buy it, especially if that was Dunn responding to me

Those are kinda my quick hits for now, please someone ask me some questions to help me smooth out some reads as well

-Drew

[Gimli]

I have a terribly busy day tomorrow so I'm gonna try to make my big post tonight and see if I can reduce the current POE to something more accurate.

I'm going back to black's defense against my initial push in #114. She is saying there that if she is "understanding correctly we should all be talking about dreams for 24 hours" (Payne, p. 5, #114). Black is acting here as if, just because we weren't flipping anyone on previous moonphase, the we also shouldn't be scumhunting. As with many other posts black made this game, I have a hard time believing the sincerity of this. Her next post goes "I'm not a robot (...) if a setup calls for a 24 hour period where we talk about mech then I'm gonna do my best to participate" (idem, #115). This is not however a setup that calls for it. We'll discuss mechanics throughout the game. We'll discuss reads throughout the game.

black's #136 is also a post I disliked: "At first I was thinking scum are more likely to do what Gimli is doing with the aggressive push and eagerness to openly solve during Moonlight because it seems townie and scum want to seem townie. Then I thought about it and realized that there are some town benefits to pushing people even if we can't fade anyone yet" (idem, p. 6, #136). This is entirely filler read with no organicity to it, and I doubt what black thinks when black thinks about mafia has any of this rigidity. She is saying nothing about the quality of my push nor anything that could actually parse out towny from scummy. She is just saying: gimli is pushing me, that can be scummy cause *benefits of scum pushing* or that can be towny cause *benefits of town pushing*.

Again in #145, #165 and #172 these reads on both me and dragon just feel way too weak. #170 complaining that she was 'meta'd in every game and it's already happening this game' reads like black found an opportunity to complain about being scumread and to repackage that as 'meta', as if I was saying she posts more as town or something and not that I think her posting in this game is scummy. #186 is also a bad and lazy post, just picking up my stuff in isolation to suggest DE's read is fake. I see this whole thing as scum who tried pointing out that things that could logically look scummy, instead of a townie trying to work out alignments genuinely.

I like catgirl's #180, I decided I may also scumread maria and alisae for reasons that aren't their alignment. I decided not to get tunnely with that slot today.

anyway my eyes are starting to gaze over stuff, this is not good.

I think (von payne, hu tao, AD) is a solid guess at a scumteam. and if any of them is town then aureal is scum. might still wanna read more maria+ali things, and I need more klick to consolidate on my townread. the rest of the game I wrote off as townies.

and this is my last content post, I'll leave the rest to just vote around unless something egregious comes up. xoxo

[Von Payne]

Thank you Gim's, meant to talk about Catgirl lol

I got a gut town read off them last night, but I am keeping it in the back of my mind the pocketing opportunity both Maria and Ali have with me.

I am probably being paranoid, but I wish I didn't say how sympatico Ali and I are when as town, feel they could(and maybe have?) pocket me......also cause I seem to default town read them.

Maria just can't act the same way as she did last game when she tunneled me into the ground as scum, and I just got a weird feeling when she even alluded to it last night(also gif, I am giving you the side eye as well lol)

I wish one of them was here now so we could dance some more

-Drew

[Catgirl Chipotle]

VOTE: aureal
we need a votecount. Multiple people need to actually post something.

ActionDan - Gutwolf + Needs to post
Gimli - probably town just because his progression on our slot is all over the place and it doesn't seem agendy.
Von Payne (Black/Doctor Drew hydra) - Very Town
DragonEater70 - Very town
Kyoko Kirigiri - Somewhat town
Klick - Need to post + D1 pass.
Hu Tao - I can't make heads or tails of her. Heads says that her posting lacks town motivation. Tails says there are too many things that just don't make sense.
Prism - Decently town
Aureal - Need to post
Silver Ravens (GuyInFreezer/Dunnstral hydra) - Gut Townie
Sunflower (fireisredsir/JupiterXV hydra) - Very town
Ydrasse - I feel like I need Ydra TRs explained to me because a lot of the people I have as town right now are townier. This is gut wolf #2

Game could just be Ydra + Aureal + Dan and wolf presence is non-existent. It would also explain a lot of things.

[Catgirl Chipotle]

VOTE: actiondan

[Sunflower]

VOTE: ActionDan

[Aureal]

I put an Unofficial Vote Count together since we're not getting one until we can't actually talk anymore

ActionDan (2): Catgirl Chipotle, Sunflower
Hu Tao (2): Kyoko Kirigiri, Gimli
Prism (2): Klick, DragonEater70
Gimli (2): Hu Tao, Von Payne
Sunflower (1): Silver Ravens
Ydrasse (1): Aureal
No Elimination (1): Prism

Not Voting (2): ActionDan, Ydrasse


So this phase really freaking sucks. What the hell was wrong with Mafia in 2013 if this is what was happening?! I'm an efficiency micromanager so I feel like I need to put every single thing I've ever thought or could think all together in one post because they're a limited resource, which takes a lot of time and effort. But also I feel like I need to freaking hurry up and do it because I don't even have control over how fast that resource goes away, it's up to you hyperposting yahoos! (speaking of, seriously why was I and my 16 posts deemed by someone with 50 posts to be in the same category as Black[50 posts], Dragon, and Jupiter [120 posts EACH]??? You don't need to answer that now as this really isn't the time for back and forths but expect to have some words about that next phase!)

I'd like to suggest that if we again get a Dream flipped like the slide was, we consider just piling our votes into that assuming it's not something obviously bad of course. That would have been sooooo much better than this.

Anyway, I haven't gone back and re-read or browsed ISOs or anything yet so there's a bunch of people I don't have a good grasp of still.

I'm not going to vote Gimli or DE here, I've already explained those reads.

I don't want to vote Von Payne either as I feel like I have a good chance to read them more confidently over time and I'm already leaning a town on Black for vibes at this point. I can totally understand her argument that Dragon's early townread was silly and unwarranted; in another world I could see myself making that argument too, but in this one I mostly just shrug and go cry in the corner because Dragon is doing weird things I don't understand again and it's better for my sanity to not pick too much at them. Also it feels like a weird choice for scumBlack to start off by aggressively going after Dragon, whom she would expect to become a prominent voice in the game. She'd probably just opt to let townDragon town it up and nightkill him if his reads are a threat rather than draw all the attention trying to keep him from being a town leader; and if they were S/S that's even less likely, she wouldn't want to burn their credibility from the start.

Prism has mostly just seemed like a reasonable poster whom I have not been pinged by one way or another until just now, or read deeply into to really understand what she's arguing. I did like her snap-back at the big Sunflower post because I too, would be upset and think it's totally wrongheaded if I played a marathon game and someone dared compare that totally different beast to a normal speed game like this. So I don't really want to vote her either today.

Hu Tao I would've been fine voting out today, per my usual strategy of wanting to vote Hu Tao D1 in absence of a good scumread because I can't read her except by catching her in a slip or narrowing the PoE in late game. However, her reaction coming into this phase made me hesitate, because I was pretty freaking demoralized seeing how this phase was going to play out, so I actually kinda vibe with wanting out. Her stuff afterward undermines that vibe though, like she could be backtracking and putting out some actual thoughts and reads because she voted herself hoping for a pass but instead it backfired and she shot to E-1 so she had to change tactics. So overall... meh I'd probably still vote her if need be but the fact that she went to E-1 easily also makes me hesitate.

I still don't know what Klick is doing. Don't really want to vote there now because voting Klick D1 feels bad. Don't think it's going to happen so probably I have time to try harder to figure out what he's doing.

Catgirl I have like no thoughts on, other than the insistence on the slide being fine being a little towny. I'm assuming Maria is doing most of the posting because it doesn't look like Alisae's and I know nothing at all about Maria.

Sunflower pretty much the same, apart from what I said about the comparison to a marathon game being wrongheaded. Don't think that's AI though. There's just tooooo much for me to process easily, I'll need to dig into ISOs and re-reads.

Silver Ravens again, these freaking hydras are basically just going straight through my brain unprocessed so far. I have no idea who's even talking in this one, it's that bad. This was the one that had the opportunistic drive-by scumread so I feel a little sus of them.

Ydrasse hasn't given a single read and showed up just to say she'd eventually do stuff but not now and other people could feel free to take her posts I was considering voting her to pressure her to do something and that post turned it into me actually voting her to pressure her to do something.

I'm in a bit of a quandary with ActionDan because his contemptuous vibes feel similar to past games where he was town, but he's also given me the scummiest ping of anyone with that bizarre Ydrasse townread. I expect him to do more.

Kyoko I still want some more from. Her long post this phase looks good and I felt like I agreed with a lot of it on first glance but when I read it again it felt kind of waffly and not going much of anywhere except scumreading Hu Tao and ActionDan, which are not exactly hard positions to have right now. I totally sympathize with spending hours writing up all this though, maybe I should've put this off even longer. >_<

Also...

I agree that Aureal and Hu need to do more(heyo, Drew calling the kettle Black), I could get a read on them better the more they post......

Oh well I'll make sure to not post anymore for a while, then! See how it feels for a change!

srsly I don't know how much of this I can do, I was kinda hoping that Hu flashwagon would go through anyway just so we could be done with this misery asap >_<

[ActionDan]

VOTE: No Elim

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[DragonEater70]

Again I implore all of you to consolidate on a wagon, and reiterate that ideally we get someone to E-1 before 50 posts are up. My vote on Prism was more supposed to be a sign of protest against her vote on Sunflower rather than a legitimate attempt at a wagon but I'm now going to consolidate on either Hu Tao or ActionDan. Like I'll just vote whichever gets more votes.



Hu Tao if you are going to play the "I have no idea what's happening this game but Dragon is my only townread" game, then you should at the very least realize that Gimli is completely off the table today and we ain't voting him no matter what. I do think you're reading way too much into that thingy with the unvotes especially because I think everyone assumed unvotes wouldn't count (including myself, I even suggested using no elim > unvote as a signal), and this only got clarified after I PM'd the mods about this because I realized oer the wording of the rules it would actually count. Also I get you're not used to writing long posts but I am sure you can explain your scumread on Sunflower for instance (which btw are also off the table unless you make an amazing case for them. While Gimli is off the table regardless of how amazing your case is).

Regarding Aureal, like okay I think her last post nudged the needle from "null town but sus" to "less-null town but still sus". I really have no idea what she thinks a pressure vote on Ydrasse is gonna achieve. Actually while writing this I realized it's extremely weird for her to do that when every time she gets oressure voted she complains so maybe I should actually untownread her. Oh my god I hate scumreading Aureal, it's not good for my mental health. Like last game she was just okay with being scumread and here she's not and I have no idea what changed unless it's that she's town this game and wasn't annoyed for getting last game cause she was scum. But on the other hand her actions don't make sense. So yeah I'm just going to let someone cop her. Maybe myself because I may or may not be an investigation role. Hmmmmmm. Anyway yeah I'm not down for voting her today if only because I value my own sanity.

ActionDan it would be really grand if you expressed some reads because iirc the last time you expressed any read whatsoever was over 400 posts ago? At least over 300 posts ago for sure.

I don't think I've posted since Kyoko's big post, so yeah I really liked it and on rereading of Kyoko's ISO I'm comfortable calling her town. Possibly for bad reasons though now that I remember the game I played where she was scum. Eh not going to revisit that right now. I think she just town. I do think that as scum she'd put more effort in to look like she has confident reads rather than the pretty unconfident reads she seems to have.

Do I have anything else to say? Inb4 I press submit and immediately remember a bunch of other stuff I wanna say. Hold on a minute while I browse the last page... Okay yeah I do have something. I kinda get why people don't like Gimli's post last page, I also didn't really like parts of it, but in my experience the things that I and other people didn't like aren't actually alignment indicative for Gimli? I can't really elaborate on it but I just think that as town Gimli sometimes has pretty meh thoughts that you don't like. Maybe because he doesn't filter his thoughts to look good, idk. Not saying all his thoughts are like that because I mentioned I did like other thoughts of his from that post. Anyway to all his scumreaders I'd say what you are scumreading in that post is either NAI or town-indicative.

Oh and I would like to hear thoughts from Klick. If he has a spicy scumread I might sheep him.

I'm sad nobody paid attention to me saying "yeah I'm not voting Catgirls this phase" followed immediately by a vote on Catgirls. I personally found it funny. No it wasn't intentionally counterintuitive, I just changed my mind right after pressing submit. But anyway right now I'm pretty undecided about them, idk.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: ActionDan

[Von Payne]

VOTE: ActionDan

[ActionDan]

VOTE: ActionDan

[ActionDan]

VOTE: No elim

[Gimli]

VOTE: Von Payne

[Gimli]

VOTE: ActionDan

[Gimli]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[DragonEater70]

Wtf ActionDan

Can you just like, post???? But you know, with words??

[Klick]

I'm part-way through a catch-up post and am burning this post to inform you all of this. Spicy hot takes should drop this evening.

Actually I'll just copy-paste what I have so far so there's something to engage with for the minute

---

This twist is doing some great things for my 'I feel like the things I think aren't worth saying' complex. I understand that being disengaged is something I'm likely to fall into as scum - that isn't what's happening here. I wanted to play this passively and avoid drowning out the high number of strong voices in this game. At the same time, there are several very strong scum players on the list, which makes me doubt the accuracy of some of my townreads. I also have some reads that are against the consensus and don't have good reason to believe I'm more accurate than the consensus here. I wanted to use as few posts as possible to allow others to use more. But while writing this post I've seen the 5+ mentions that I should post more, and I understand that I need to be readable as well, so here's some content I guess

I also feel like I'm at my most useful during spur-of-the-moment interaction, which this isn't very well-suited for. I'm going to do a full reread, see what I feel confident in, and share what I feel best about. (This was written over Monday evening/Tuesday X amount of time)

I think my main problem with regards to the DragonEater slot isn't necessarily that I think he's scum, as much as that I think a lot of the reasons he's getting townread don't match with how I think Dragon would try to play as scum. People are saying they think he wouldn't interact with me the way he has if he was scum, but they're missing the context that DragonEater has very intentionally interacted with me similarly in our last two games, and he'd have to try to imitate it. I think Dragon is hyper-aware of how he comes across, and that wouldn't change if he's scum here. He's decidedly still on the table as a scum option for me, even if he's not necessarily a scumread. I don't see the factor that disqualifies him.

I actually think ActionDan's assessment of the Slide reveal being pro-town in 200 is a towny thought process. It feels like a thought that sprang up out of genuine curiosity as to whether town or scum caused the Slide reveal. The momentum of the ActionDan wagon today has made me think that's the bait wagon, I don't want to see AD flip today.

---

So there's less there than I thought there was. I'll also tack on a reads list of where I'm approximately at

TOWN

Von Payne
Sunflower

LEANING TOWN

ActionDan
Kyoko Kirigiri
Silver Ravens
Ydrasse

NULL

Hu Tao
DragonEater70
Gimli
Catgirl Chipotle

LEANING SCUM

Prism
Aureal