Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Koishi Komeiji]

I can respect your reasons to dislike, I feel like the interaction with Ichirin about the “I’m town” post might be something we need to revisit later with more information.

I uh, actually had already picked those three before I saw the request.

[Tenshi Hinanawi]

Yikes.

[Tenshi Hinanawi]

I vote Ichirin if I get a vote, the

[Koishi Komeiji]

Sorry to ruin your one chance of feeling seen!

[Tenshi Hinanawi]

It’s okay, I got to Kaguya town first so I get bragging rights

[Koishi Komeiji]

I vote Ichirin if I get a vote, then

Actually this one got veto'd by the below so long as sie materializes additional real content after said readup, especially given that there's been talk of people who would/would not vote hir recently.

Direly need to get back into the swing of things, I'll reread from my last post sometime soon.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Don't worry, it's because the universe DOES hate you! Hope that helps.

[Sanae Kochiya]

Dai
Another set of eyes on her posts would be useful

[Koishi Komeiji]

Yuuka, They/Them of the red eyes green (haired) dragon

Things I liked

-114 feels like the sort of thing that, yeah, seems less likely if they're mafia and have that info that they can fake this post. And then I really like the immediate follow-up of 117 to caution/note that claiming this outright quickly might be bad.
-121 and 122 in general are written like somebody at once frustrated with GuyInFreezer who probably sent some trolly "nope" answer back, but still trying to read the tea leaves on what does work, collaboratively. I'm not sure scum-Yuuka goes into their mafia PT, asks the question, then has the insight to go back and talk about the answers in the game PT, but if they did then bravo, that's a new one for me. Usually the mental barrier of keeping the two chats nowhere near each other means people don't do this, in my experience. Never seen it. Zilch. And I'm OLD.
484 487 and then into it 491 seems like the correct kind of probing question.
728 is a vibe that I too picked up on around this time.
2067 is a decent set of points about the Reisen ISO. Will revisit this if my conclusions are massively different when I get to this slot.

Things I disliked

-In post 8 specifying 3p instead of just "scum" seemed... weird? Maybe this is the way their brain worked by why be suspecting a 3P this early into the game?
-Post 11 is another example of the thing that pings me to no end, which is answering questions during the middle of a direct interaction. It muddys waters and I HATE HATE HATE HATE it.
-232 is just one of those things that are clearly eye-rolling, but my hate is not for the use of it, but their lack of trying to make it worth any actual data afterwards. Why bother with this post then NOT bother to apply any pressure whatsoever instead of just... dropping it? It's like the Davy Back Fight arc in One Piece. Shit filler.
-536 is just such an awkward way to make this post, like the need for re-enforcing that they're NOT scum feeling that way... If Aya does turn out to be confirmed town at any point this series of pages probably needs more scrutiny and a reread with that in mind.
-744 is a decent post to make about this specific situation. Calling for accountability is good.
-784 is also fairly town in thought process.
-949 is a believably town post about feelings on the no touching area of the game.
-The line about what Sanae-scum might or might not do in 959 is a good line of a post that is otherwise forgettable.
-977 is odd for somebody who is self-admitted to playing tryhard, like, you're the one with the energy in the game, why not seek out a deeper dive of Dai's posts BEFORE seeking permissions ITT to scum read them?

Things I cannot Grok?

-Their actual role as claimed goes HERE in the nulls, folks. Read them off of other stuff. GuyInFreezer is a known troll mod who loves putting too scummy to be scum bullshit in his games like he's a kid in a candy store, but all the shelves are his height and he also has a giant shop-vac to scoop them up faster than by hand.
-The open hostility that starts around post 256 or so, just... I don't know... who hurt you? It's not like 336 was any less demeaning?
-474 was decent, but I wasn't the happiest about their reply to my follow-up question about it they gave in 480 and 482. So it evens out?
-730 I just don't know what that means and I'm the shitty metaphor one usually.
-938 is in the same "Waiting until Aya is back to discuss it from both ends" bin of no touching.

Overall Verdict: I'm definitely not jumping on a grenade for them, they're middle of the pack at best, which is NOT what I expected going into this one.

[Daiyousei]

Dai
Another set of eyes on her posts would be useful

good news on this front there's about to be a few more complete with everyone's beloved quote stripes! ;_;

[Koishi Komeiji]

Hmm, it's getting quite late. Going to have to save those other two for tomorrow night's batch, unfortunately. Back to phone posting shortly before bed.

[Daiyousei]

2) what makes a tenshi vote more interesting than a vote for me? maybe this is the self-loathing from generations of fairy hatred kicking in but i see myself as more likely to get exterminated than tenshi at this point in the game, so i don't understand why you'd vote tenshi ahead of me while thinking i'm more likely to be mafia

2) I'm more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than you, i feel like the general avoidance around this slot could come from a place of more well inserted scumbuddies uneasy with the idea of drawing the light to their weak like

2) assuming your interest in seeing people's stances on tenshi is honest, what effort did you make to draw those stances out between the tenshi vote and the post i am responding to with this question? (this actually ties pretty neatly into what yuuka and piece have been saying about you lately)

still waiting for an answer to this btw ?_?

(ed. note: nested quotes are cleaned up for ease-of-reading purposes)

sorry missed it

- well, i maybe didn't get as much as i hoped directly at the, but i also feel like i've managed to prevent tenshi from just being able to fly under the radar undetected, and it's just that people don't really care about pushing there

actually hmmm

one thing i find weird is how Marisa didn't include Tenshi in her vote pool

VOTE: Tenshi

yeah ik it's dumb counting the vote as that by itself, but it's true

I've lost the plot completely here too.

Just gonna step away and come back with fresh brain.

before you leave give me gun to head a read on Tenshi

save a townie, join the Tenshi wagon

So, a couple of things with this:

1) Posts 717 and 745 come after the time frame I was asking about. I was specifically asking about the time frame between the vote for Tenshi, in 553, and the claim that the vote for Tenshi was cast because you "were more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than [me]", in 655. Presumably, if you were town and telling the truth about this, you would have made efforts to draw out people's stances between 553 and 665. I looked back and did not see any. Given you didn't quote any, I'm assuming you didn't see any either. Therefore, I have to conclude that the reason you gave for the vote is bunk, and because town has no reason to give bunk reasons for their votes, you are Mafia.

2) Posts 717 and 745 don't really give any reason to consider Tenshi voteworthy. In fact, Sanae's question in 719 is the only real response one can to 717, because you hadn't given any reason for anyone else to consider voting for Tenshi up to that point. Your response in 723 exists, sure, but even setting aside that the reasoning there appears to amount to "vibes", there was no reason town you couldn't have provided that reasoning 150 posts prior. This instead comes across as making something up after the fact, which suggests Mafia.

[Daiyousei]

Please forgive my breaking of character, I'm tired.

VOTE: Daiyousei

The entire line of questioning in 889 is really bad. Why does Daiyousei care about the fact that my scumread of Kaguya can be applied to other people? I'm explicitly fine with voting the other people. Why does Daiyousei care that I said I don't understand how anyone could have a townread on Kaguya? Even if only Kagerou was townreading Kaguya, nobody else was voting her. I didn't understand why nobody was interested in a Kaguya vote and said so. None of this is actually relevant to my alignment in any way and none of this even gives a reason not to vote Kaguya. It just feels like a discredit attempt, or at best an attempt to look like Daiyousei is questioning and investigative (and therefore towny).

Why does Daiyousei care about the fact that my scumread of Kaguya can be applied to other people?

- Because the line I asked about

didn't

apply to Kaguya. Here, I'll ask directly - how does "Anything that looks town indicative can be faked with a bit of practice" apply to someone about whom you just said ""none of her posts are town indicative"? If you can answer that question to my satisfaction then I'll feel better about you using it as justification for the Kaguya vote.

Why does Daiyousei care that I said I don't understand how anyone could have a townread on Kaguya? Even if only Kagerou was townreading Kaguya, nobody else was voting her. I didn't understand why nobody was interested in a Kaguya vote and said so.

- "I don't understand how anyone can have a strong townread on her!" is

not

the same thing as "I don't understand why nobody is interested in a Kaguya vote". Do not try to equate these two things. If you can give me evidence that a non-trivial collection of people that actually had a strong townread of Kaguya at the time, then I'll gladly (and sheepishly) withdraw the point. But don't give me evidence that a non-trivial collection of people weren't interested in a Kaguya vote and try to present that as them having strong townreads on Kaguya. Speaking for myself, there are a handful of people I presently am not interested in voting but also do not have strong townreads on, and I imagine the same is true of most of the rest of the game.

How this is all relevant to your alignment is related to the "town has no reason to give bunk reasons for their votes" thing I covered above. I was skeptical of your vote, and your response to my questioning about it made me more skeptical, ergo I lean toward you being Mafia.

I also mentioned that her cases on both Aya and Kagerou were fake, and I stand by that.

Aya breaking character happened after Daiyousei's bad case on Aya and therefore has no relevance to whether or not the case was good.

I already covered this in 891, but I suppose I can expand on the Aya stuff specifically.

My comments on Aya were made in 392. Aya had made nine posts up to that point. Here's the first so that anyone that wants to follow along can click the ISO link. In those nine posts, there is a partial role claim in 229 and a general Mafia behavior opinion in 255. Beyond that, I do not see any game state opinions in any of those posts - who she thinks is town, who she thinks is Mafia, reasons for those beliefs, etc. Given this, I do not think it is particularly unfair to have categorized her play up to that point as "do-nothing" or "pretending to contribute". If there are game state opinions in those posts that I have missed, please do point them out for me! Otherwise I will stand by what I said in 392 and find it very suspect that you continue to disagree.

Also, as long as I'm talking about this, given you very recently settled on Yuuka being town, what do you think of her vote for and commentary on Aya from that same general time frame compared to my commentary?

[Daiyousei]

wow! this is by far the worst post i've seen all game! @_@ it contributes nothing to the hunting process and is obviously designed just to kick a clearly hurting player while they're down

in an iso vacuum i'm still not thrilled with aya's body of work but this post and sanae co-signing it in 598 makes me want absolutely nothing to do with voting aya for the foreseeable future and everything to do with exterminating the kagerou/sanae mafpair asap

I really hate this, I feel like it is trying to exacerbate the situation when I frankly raised an eyebrow at the same quote as Kagerou?

I already covered this, albeit with a Hisoutensoku joke thrown in that may have made it unclear. I'll quote it below with the joke removed/cleared up.

my expectation of a confused town response would to be to realize that aya very likely isn't saying those things about herself, try to figure out who she might be talking about instead, and ask for clarification, e.g. "just to be sure, is this post about player x?"

That said, this looks like a really weird way to talk about me when you have much wordier qualifiers on the rest of the people you were asked about? It's not like I haven't been majorly present since your last block of reads, I suspect I'm going to be showing up on this week's episode of Hyperposters Least Wanted, starting John Walsh.

you're in a unique position where i was very much not a fan of your predecessor, but was also starting to rethink that stance because i wasn't sure if it was because she was mafia or because her foundational ideas for how to play differed strongly with mine

and then the replacement happened, which means that i still feel how i felt about the slot prior to the replacement but my concerns may no longer apply going forward

so i couldn't just drop you in either the "interested in voting" bin or the "not interested in voting" bin with any sort of confidence, hence the couched wording

I'm not sure I like how cognizant they are of their own trajectory, however I know that I can be a bit susceptible to this too? But referencing their own posts here felt kinda weird

It comes as a direct result of my 891, which was me putting into words the nebulous feelings I had about Koishi's slot, and then Koishi calling it weird in 893. My brain is shit, so I tend to be bad at remembering details of my own thought process if I don't go back and review them, which is what I did in the case of 902.

[Clownpiece]

-744 is a decent post to make about this specific situation. Calling for accountability is good.
-784 is also fairly town in thought process.
-949 is a believably town post about feelings on the no touching area of the game.
-The line about what Sanae-scum might or might not do in 959 is a good line of a post that is otherwise forgettable.

Did you intend for all of these to be in "Things I liked"?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Yes as they were still slightly higher than null, I'm listing things that pushed me one direction or another. Why, do you disagree with any of them?

...Did I put them in the wrong section?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh goodness I sure did.

I will edit it tomorrow when I have the right tools. Not attempting that on a mobile device.

[Daiyousei]

f in the chat

[Daiyousei]

Anyway, bed beckoned over an hour ago. Apologies if anyone was hoping for real-time discussion surrounding those posts or anything else.

[Yuuka Kazami]

The posts on this page are very dense.
Kouji’s points are pretty up and down and seem kind of ‘fair and balanced’(tm) but I don’t really get where they’re coming from near at all on some of the negative posts. It kind of feels like horse race posting where the goal is more to make it look close rather than to actually lean one way or another. Usually when I see that kind of back and forth I see a real preference between the two, but here it decidedly didn’t feel like that

[Sanae Kochiya]

@Koishi I'm somewhat surprised you came out with the conclusion you did on Yuuka based on your commentary, which seems to be leaning more positive

[Yuuka Kazami]

I am marginally against The Kaguya wagon because, on page 48: Vibes.

[Daiyousei]

The posts on this page are very dense.

Given other people have commented on this when it comes to my posts, I will gladly take advice on how to condense my posts while still getting all pertinent information across, because I am clearly incapable of doing it when left to my own devices.

[Koishi Komeiji]

@Koishi I'm somewhat surprised you came out with the conclusion you did on Yuuka based on your commentary, which seems to be leaning more positive

232 is worth like ten bullet points.

[Sanae Kochiya]

Dai there's something about the way that you're writing your posts that just make them very hard for me to process

It's very possible that this is contributing to my scumread on you

Pedit repeating the same thing, sorry