Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Sanae Kochiya]

I have a lot of confused thoughts on Koishi right now

[Eternity Larva]

talk to me about them!

i've seen you pretty consistently scum reading him the last several pages, to the point of saying you were worried about tunneling him, what is giving you pause?

[Tenshi Hinanawi]

Re Yuukas vote on Koishi, despite telegraphed, Yuuka was not around until almost an hour after the larva post. I think Koishis point would have more merit if yuuka was actively posting at the time?

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm wondering if I'm tunneled and I'm just badly misreading their playstyle

[Clownpiece]

i know i just voted Koishi but i do not understand why everyone and their mother took issue with their characterization of Yuuka as "middle-of-the-road"?

what is so horrible about them drawing that conclusion?

I think that peoples issue was that if you read their point by point commentary, it seems like they say a lot more things that point to town, and then people are taking "middle of the pack at best" as a scum read, and people are struggling to reconcile the final conclusion to the supporting evidence.

But I dont think koishi was actually meaning a scum read when they wrote it, so :shrug:

[Sanae Kochiya]

And I think OG!Koishi was a little bit townie all in all when I go back and reread the ISO

[Eternity Larva]

and full transparency, last page was the first time i've genuinely considered i'm wrong about Koishi 2.0

the carousel never stops turning!

[Tenshi Hinanawi]

i know i just voted Koishi but i do not understand why everyone and their mother took issue with their characterization of Yuuka as "middle-of-the-road"?

what is so horrible about them drawing that conclusion?

I think that peoples issue was that if you read their point by point commentary, it seems like they say a lot more things that point to town, and then people are taking "middle of the pack at best" as a scum read, and people are struggling to reconcile the final conclusion to the supporting evidence.

But I dont think koishi was actually meaning a scum read when they wrote it, so :shrug:

For the record, I knew it was a null read, but the sides of the scale feel weird.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I’m not sure that is a play style.
The connections they’re making don’t follow a traditional route. Rather, there’s a pruning system that they’re missing. Hard to know if intentional or they’re just really trying their best to convince themselves they’re town when they aren’t and that’s just what scum them reasoning looks like for them in particular.

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Okay I definitely concur the Yuuka "middle-of-the-pack" read is weird because a lot of the ungrokables and dislikes are just Yuuka eccentricities (and not ones I think are relevant, mind, like I talked about in my wall)? The typos are annoying, I wish I knew what "2076" was supposed to be, but moreover it just feels like the equation is Towntell+Towntell+Towntell+Towntell+Scumtell=? and you fucked up your math and landed on Nulltown. I just don't agree overall.

[Sanae Kochiya]

(and also apparently having a strange Yuuka case)

Something about the way you worded this feels like... off? Can you elaborate, because this sounds like you don't actually care about it, but about how OTHERS perceived it? Do you not have an opinion of your own?

I've literally said I haven't looked at those posts yet, I've only noticed the discussion around the Yuuka one.

Okay, so that was a realistic position for you two hours ago, but why are you not making a point of going back to read? You've made posts since so you HAVE been here?

I hate this post on many levels

[Daiyousei]

I'm not sure I see the lying that you see though

this we can work with!

here is kagerou's tenshi vote

here is the post where kagerou says "i'm more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than you" ("you" being me in this case)

i invite you to go through kagerou's iso, starting from the first linked post and ending with the second linked post, and find anything from them that shows any effort to get people's stances on tenshi

if you can't, then there you go, that's the lying! kagerou claimed to be "more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than [me]" but showed precisely no interest in getting those stances in that time frame

[Ichirin Kumoi]

i know i just voted Koishi but i do not understand why everyone and their mother took issue with their characterization of Yuuka as "middle-of-the-road"?

what is so horrible about them drawing that conclusion?

I think that peoples issue was that if you read their point by point commentary, it seems like they say a lot more things that point to town, and then people are taking "middle of the pack at best" as a scum read, and people are struggling to reconcile the final conclusion to the supporting evidence.

But I dont think koishi was actually meaning a scum read when they wrote it, so :shrug:

For the record, I knew it was a null read, but the sides of the scale feel weird.

This.

[Eternity Larva]

Clownpiece how do you feel about Kagerou finally seeming to drop their scum read on you?

And what is your read on them in general?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Re Yuukas vote on Koishi, despite telegraphed, Yuuka was not around until almost an hour after the larva post. I think Koishis point would have more merit if yuuka was actively posting at the time?

Wrong direction. Look backwards, my concern is that they could have voted me a ton of times BEFORE the Larva post, when they were active and actively calling BS.

Like, specifically, during these series of psots:

The problem is that your scum takes don’t make sense. “Middle of the road at best” implies you’re scum reading/leaning me.

It just feels like you have a conclusion in mind and are trying to justify it than the other way around.

It'll be this evening.

I'm not going down the rabbit hole of arguing over my wording choice when:

A: I stand by it.
and
B: at the end of this wall project i'm going to be giving an in-specific-order reads list anyways.
and
C: I am stuck on my phone until after work.

1. Ew.
2. Irrelevant.
3. Got it.

I saw it, I just didn’t care because they were already in the zone of “looking for reasons to temper a read” they probably just linked to the wrong post.

I find their “I stand by it” when 4 players are saying it’s weird/bad/a mistake pretty strange. I guess it could either be a they went to google once and they learned that if you repeat something enough and hold a position consistently enough it can start to move people, they could be right after all, (they’re not, but you know) it’s just strange but possibly just unique to them as a person.
They could just be scum though.
Petit: Ah I see. Meta.

[Sanae Kochiya]

I think I was the first person to call that out, like 15 pages ago or whatever

[Koishi Komeiji]

i know i just voted Koishi but i do not understand why everyone and their mother took issue with their characterization of Yuuka as "middle-of-the-road"?

what is so horrible about them drawing that conclusion?

I think that peoples issue was that if you read their point by point commentary, it seems like they say a lot more things that point to town, and then people are taking "middle of the pack at best" as a scum read, and people are struggling to reconcile the final conclusion to the supporting evidence.

But I dont think koishi was actually meaning a scum read when they wrote it, so :shrug:

For the record, I knew it was a null read, but the sides of the scale feel weird.

This.

There is a very clear and correct answer here that giving in detail is actively detrimental, but is exactly why I am not worried about this wagon going anywhere in the slightest. And even typing this out is dangerous but fuck it, we ball.

[Tenshi Hinanawi]

I don’t think it’s scummy to wait for things to develop more before placing a vote though? Like what makes town NOT feel more comfortable voting someone when one of their townreads (I’m pretty confident but not 100 this is the case) also scumreads someone?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Really hoping some of our wallflower posters come back to participate in this in real time.

[Sanae Kochiya]

I'm not sure I see the lying that you see though

this we can work with!

here is kagerou's tenshi vote

here is the post where kagerou says "i'm more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than you" ("you" being me in this case)

i invite you to go through kagerou's iso, starting from the first linked post and ending with the second linked post, and find anything from them that shows any effort to get people's stances on tenshi

if you can't, then there you go, that's the lying! kagerou claimed to be "more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than [me]" but showed precisely no interest in getting those stances in that time frame

I guess I don't consider that lying, and that vote is sort of in character with the sort of reasoning/playstyle they've had all game
I think that 'didn't substantiate the 'seeing people's stances'' bit in thread is totally fair, but:

1. I don't think that's lying
2. people do this sort of thing all the time and I don't think it's inherently scummy
3. it's possible there just wasnt' anything interesting in response so they just moved on and/or didn't note anything in thread

I appreciate you spelling it out very clearly and linking the relevant posts though

[Yuuka Kazami]

Oh dear.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I don’t think it’s scummy to wait for things to develop more before placing a vote though? Like what makes town NOT feel more comfortable voting someone when one of their townreads (I’m pretty confident but not 100 this is the case) also scumreads someone?

I regret to inform you that I didn't say it was scummy, people are just inferring that I did. Data is sometimes just data, about a player's style or preferences that can inform other data down the line.

[Eternity Larva]

I'm not sure I see the lying that you see though

this we can work with!

here is kagerou's tenshi vote

here is the post where kagerou says "i'm more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than you" ("you" being me in this case)

i invite you to go through kagerou's iso, starting from the first linked post and ending with the second linked post, and find anything from them that shows any effort to get people's stances on tenshi

if you can't, then there you go, that's the lying! kagerou claimed to be "more interested in seeing people's stances on Tenshi than [me]" but showed precisely no interest in getting those stances in that time frame

i vibe with this. good work!

can you ISO me, CTRL-F "Reisen" and see if you find anything that feels similar?

[Sanae Kochiya]

Uh Koishi what do you think about my lack of vote on you?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Uh Koishi what do you think about my lack of vote on you?

That you are more hesitant with your vote in general!