Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Yuuka Kazami]

You're tunneling on the idea that I'm scum for my D3 play while completely ignoring that my N2 play makes negative sense as scum and perfect sense as town

What about your day 2 play makes negative sense as scum?

[Yuuka Kazami]

I dislike me. But it is worthwhile to note that Kaguya really didn't need to entertain me this long, even though, presumably, if I didn't someone else would have. Likewise, they keep asking me questions about why or how could they have done the kill. but I mean, anyone can come up with plausible arguments, so it's a weird angle for scum to keep asking me to dig deeper into it.

A sticking point for me is their point of view on information security. Their credulity in general appears to be on the fritz.

I find it simply ambiguous what their delay in sharing information could be.
It could be as they said, they were watching and waiting and looking and asking some pointed questions to make sense of the situation as town.
Or they realized something went wrong given the message Dai's death was left ambiguous and were trying to come up with something to explain it away. So they were slow to reveal this information because they didn't want to be caught slipping up.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Yuuka: what specifically do I gain from having Dai suicide into Clownpiece as maf?

Did you suggest that Dai do this or did clown piece? I remember it being clownpiece.

My point is that there's absolutely nothing stopping me from not telling Dai about the Clownpiece hood and keeping her alive off of that

[Kaguya Houraisan]

You're tunneling on the idea that I'm scum for my D3 play while completely ignoring that my N2 play makes negative sense as scum and perfect sense as town

What about your day 2 play makes negative sense as scum?

Night 2 not Day 2

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I dislike me. But it is worthwhile to note that Kaguya really didn't need to entertain me this long, even though, presumably, if I didn't someone else would have.

You're a mouthpiece for the inevitable arguments, if not you then it would have been someone else

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Yuuka: what specifically do I gain from having Dai suicide into Clownpiece as maf?

Did you suggest that Dai do this or did clown piece? I remember it being clownpiece.

My point is that there's absolutely nothing stopping me from not telling Dai about the Clownpiece hood and keeping her alive off of that

Oh I just realised not having timestamps probably makes this conclusion harder to come to

Clownpiece fullclaimed to me ~5 hours after the flip happened

[Kaguya Houraisan]

and we spent an hour before that livechatting

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Ok got all the yelling out of my system and chilled out now, I'll condense the argument for why N2 doesn't make sense if I'm scum

Proof By Contradiction

1. Premise: Kaguya is mafia
   
2. Premise: Kaguya believes Clownpiece is Copping someone that isn't her
   1. If Clownpiece gets a Green Check then shooting Aya/Koishi and protecting them brings the POE to {Aya, Koishi, Clownpiece, Kaguya, Green Check} as town and {Reisen, Daiyousei, Kagerou, Marisa, Yuuka} - 1 as scum -> It is optimal for Kaguya to shoot in Aya/Koishi and coast to victory -> Kaguya does not make the Clownpiece kill as Mafia
      
   2. If Clownpiece gets a Red Check then shooting Aya/Koishi and protecting them brings the POE to {Aya, Koishi, Clownpiece, Kaguya} as town and {Reisen, Daiyousei, Kagerou, Marisa, Yuuka} - 1 as scum. Since at MELO all no-limming would do is kill a conftown, Kaguya can argue against no-limming and decide the lim at 4p MELO instead -> It is optimal for Kaguya to shoot in Aya/Koishi and coast to victory -> Kaguya does not make the Clownpiece kill as Mafia

[Yuuka Kazami]

They told you on page 2 that they were a cop and then 6 hours before deadline you both made another 50ish posts?

Oh 6 hours after the flip happened.
Not before the flip.

I’m confused how them claiming early makes it more believable. This would make it less likely for the excuse that you didn’t have time to communicate what they asked if there was a third listener.

I am processing the rest of your town case.
Going out to breakfast with friends. So I look forward to somebody else piping in.

[Yuuka Kazami]

But not Koishi.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I think this is the kind of gamestate where people get caught up in the latest events while spec chat goes "wow Kaguya's so obvtown I can't believe she's getting run up" so I'd appreciate people taking a step back and looking at the totality of my play instead of just what's in front of them

[Koishi Komeiji]

Fuck mech (seriously, optimal play has gotten us two town elims and I'm guilty of that), Reisen is frozen scum.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Fuck mech (seriously, optimal play has gotten us two town elims and I'm guilty of that), Reisen is frozen scum.

I'm giving some leeway there cause Aya and Marisa have also been afk and it's Easter

[Kaguya Houraisan]

And I remember thinking she was pretty townie during my last re-read

[Yuuka Kazami]

Narrator: nobody else piped in.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Narrator: nobody else piped in.

You rejected me so deal with it.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I think this is the kind of gamestate where people get caught up in the latest events while spec chat goes "wow Kaguya's so obvtown I can't believe she's getting run up" so I'd appreciate people taking a step back and looking at the totality of my play instead of just what's in front of them

From my town pov, you basically sat around yesterday and mech spec’d.

And while it was interesting and somewhat unique.
It wasn’t exactly super townie to me.

Though yeah, everyone can be concisely summarized and made to look silly.

I sat around yesterday and wasted my time misreading Sanae and failing at finding reliable associatives from Larvae.

[Aya Shameimaru]

Around, sorry

[Kaguya Houraisan]

From my town pov, you basically sat around yesterday and mech spec’d.

I solved towards the end of day when I realised my mech was wrong, it's just condensed in one session that people didn't interact with instead of spread out over the day like others were

[Koishi Komeiji]

Around, sorry

Square, not sorry.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Fuck mech (seriously, optimal play has gotten us two town elims and I'm guilty of that), Reisen is frozen scum.

I'm giving some leeway there cause Aya and Marisa have also been afk and it's Easter

This wasn't specific to this day phase, though.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I just don't have that many other places I think are mafia, really?

I don't really think it's Aya. If it is some sort of masterclass 42069IQ play then she can win.
I don't really think it's Yuuka. Yuuka's doing the self-aware thing to a point of hilarity and I just don't see that as something scum can do convincingly to THIS degree.
I don't really think it's Dai given associatives from Larva + literally jesus role on easter lol.

I sort of like my original town read on Fern here, even if she is doing the "focus on why it's not me" thing a bit much for my liking. I need to reread her reaction to my role given she's ALSO claiming protective here, though.
It COULD be Marisa, I guess, given Sanae's flip wasn't mafia. But I've liked that slot.
It COULD be the "vig" werewolf, where scum had an extra kill. It's wacky enough that I don't put it past gif so my "mech" clear is thrown out with the baby AND the bath water. And the wolf killed by bud Tenshi which is a crime in and of itself.


And that leaves Reisen, which I am finding no real reasons to town read besides surface level activity and occasional "good" posts.


So, like, yeah.

{Aya, Dai}
{Yuuka}
-------
{Kaguya}
{Kagerou, Marisa}
{Reisen}


This game is hard because scum isn't a bunch of incompetent losers that are gonna roll over and die. But that's much the point to push forward anyways. Mech spec and "optimal play" (TM) has gotten me end of day phase deadline hammering two townies. Enough. I'm tired of waffling and being useless, I'd rather be decisive and wrong than waffle my way to a muddy loss. I owe it to Sanae at the very least.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Aya get your feathered butt in here, it's time to stop moping and to start murdering. And you're literally crow, murder is in your species' grouping name.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Kaguya, since you seem to be keen on mechspec, can you put together a spreadsheet of all known/claimed night/day actions and passives, and lay them out for everyone?

Ideally, denote cells with an additional color if they're confirmed by a second party (orange? yellow?), and green if they're mod confirmed IE the dai rezz.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Werewolf, Reisen, convince me why I shouldn't murder you because I am a murder hobo whose murdering murder is ready to murder murderously.

But seriously, I feel like I have no idea your thoughts on the state of the game or anything that has really happened in the past game cycle. I can remember Sanae's takes better than yours, and she's dead and hasn't been able to post this phase.