Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[ActionDan]

Reading up.

[ActionDan]

45: they didn't either.

46: It's null.

47 and 48: actually having these opinions would be scummy.

49: see above.

50: Oh really? Willing to bet you can't identify what that effort consisted of. Have you had a thought to what alignment your and raven's posting might be linked to from DE? He didn't specify town or scum. I'd call your evaluation presumptuous.

51: How strange it is that you showed quite good judgement in our last game and now you post something like this. Gimli has yet to solve in any particularly serious capacity. Calling Kiri town? Is that the solving you are lauding?

63: Good for you

82: Choosing a few dreams is not exactly game breaking regardless of choice, why wouldn't scum attempt to make a best effort to truthfully mech solve if the result only minorly effects their gameplan if at all?

DragonEater70, whose eagerness to discuss and find townreads on people feels like a hamfisted ingratiation attempt. There are no touches of pressure scattered throughout, and these are tools are best used in conjunction.

I agree with the read. However I don't find the difference between DE and Kiri / Gimli substantial. Why not throw these two in similar buckets?

131: I don't disagree

And also I think, if I'm allowed to indulge in usesPython imitation, that questioning that read is cringe and mafpilled.

No it isn't. Your read was and is trash. Even if you consider yourself to be a Gimli whisperer without fallibility you should think others might question your read, rightfully so.

144: Yet he leaned into Kiri's pretty much immediately. And yours too.

146: This more or less seals Prism's towniness to me. Assuming the sentiment had to do with alignment too which is borne out in later posts.

There's some black and gimli posting I've only skimmed and I will dive into to get better reads on both but my general thoughts right now is that {DE, Kiri, Gimli} are scummiest (and of those DE scummier) and everyone else looks decently good in comparison (aside from Klick who is as lame as he was last game).

Briefly about Dreams and such. I would advise picking dreams that both look best and look like they DONT have global effects. I think rule 8 kills off the useless Slide dream. I think whatever or whoever caused the reveal to be pro-town. My Dreams selections will be 11-12 dial, Vi, Car Seat and I hope everyone chooses these.

VOTE: Dragon

[ActionDan]

Hu is lame too, but that doesn't break my expectations.

[ActionDan]

I find Dragon's posting towny and I don't understand the townread's on Prism's slot.
There posting is very well written like reading a royal script, but I would've come to expect that as either alignment. If any of the people townreading them wish to expand more on why that would mean a lot.

Rather simple. Nothing to dislike in their posts and they have immediate reactions to pointing out that scummy behavior is scummy.

[ActionDan]

This probably could use some explanation, cos I don't see it.

It's not too strong but aside from dodging that Kiri/Gilmi/DE town bloc nonsense claiming to have not been the cause of the dream reveal like that strikes me more as a dumb town response over crafty next level scum one.

This is a read that needs time to build

[ActionDan]

VOTE: No Elim

[ActionDan]

VOTE: ActionDan

[ActionDan]

VOTE: No elim

[ActionDan]

I wish to preface this post by saying I attempted to first and foremost to reread Gimli and DE. Considering I've only got about a couple hours a night to spend on this game and I work slow.. very slow. It was perhaps not the best thing to do especially when I feel even after my opinions are now somewhat invalidated. As for recent events I think Kirigiri is blatantly town now and Klick is too. Klick is for a mind meld over his opinions on DE when he had them before he succumbed to town reading them completely. I'm still holding out because I truly despise his play and a good number of his posts moonphase. Gimli has become much more town to me over a willingness to analyze and re-analyze players in ways I find believable. I still have an incomplete picture of the game due to time constraints. The voting myself and unvoting was just to tell people I was still here without wasting a content post nothing else. Kiri's case on Hu is not definitive because I don't think a case on Hu could ever be, but I think it's a good one and if Hu is scum the reason why is there. I will say it many times below but I need to read both CC and Aureal again and deeply; there are townreads I need a refresher on but these two take priority. In the meantime below the Gimli spoiler is a case on Sunflower who I think is a good hit for scum. I am not absolutely convinced of my own case but I would like people to read it, especially those that have Sunflower as a townread.

Spoiler: Gimli

When Isoing Von Payne / Gimli together I get a very clear picture of Black being town. Aside from 136 which is kind of a crappy post she responds well to the often harsh and overly critically amplified points that Gimli tosses her way. These being the speculations about her entrance which was not engaged in the act of immediately scum hunting, responding to the suggestion that Black implied Gilmi / DE was or could be a S/S pairing, and the entirety of the discussions surrounding whether Gimli did or did not invoke meta when reading/voting Black (Answer: a rose by any other name... : it's meta). I could delve into the particulars of these arguments between the two of them if needed but the reader will find Black coming out ahead here. This does not surpass possible growing pains endemic to poking and prodding for a read on Gimli's part and the first part of 160 would suggest the same even if clearly this issue reignited after. Much more importantly for the both of them are the arguments in relation to DE.

I can see why I'm ticking so hard as town to DE as I'm doing something very different this game

This is horrific. Black points out much the same in posts 165 and 186. At the time of the read by Gimli's own admission in 174 there is no reason to support it, especially if as Gimli claims that DE has had extensive experience with him so doing something differently from one game to the next shouldn't be surprising and if Gimli has no set meta then there isn't anything DE should be able to believe is behaviorally pertinent in establishing an oracle like read. (There never should be anyway, Meta is Trash). Similarly, Gimli's own town read of DE came immediately afterwards and my doubt is high that #174 would be the reason at that time for Gimli.

Is DE bleeding town? No he is not.

340 is a nothing readlist. 344: First again a rather harsh view towards SRs posting. It's entirely natural to see a logical contradiction and if unresolved assume a less than towny motive for it. Especially when Gimli was the one pressing Black on her meta comment in the first place and couldn't let it go. So it could be connected to the intricate process of forming or faking reads. 2nd half of this post is basically gaslighting. Soul reads founded on nothing are scummy. And it isn't according to DE founded on nothing, It's Meta somehow, but really, its nothing and that's the point of calling attention to it.

351: From Gimli's perspective the Klick read makes sense. Will read Aureal at some point.

379: Noting that Black never answered this akaik, but this is WIFOM. I believe we have been told that DE can be this confident as scum too. As for scum strategy, what if all the scum blatantly and absurdly townread each other over nothing? Never could happen right? that kind of thing could easily fuck with people's minds. I've experienced it (we as scum did did lose though). The point is that we cannot know it and speculation is WIFOMy. Also you had just said Klick is town because DE is hard to elim now so... the strategy seems to be working if that was it!

some posts about but mechanics; sure. It is understandable to be worried about a shit result if slide actually made it to the top 3 (despite what we actually got), and people's reasons for it were bonkers, but its possible they didn't understand rule 8 well at the time. On that note will say that post tally the fact that Car got 5 and sheep 8 might be an indication of scum influence. Will have to count votes.

579: Agree with SR read, and the reasons why. Had the same feeling wrt their early game mech talk and after reviewing the other two posts they can thinly be called town observations. On me my content is diametrically opposed to your own reads wondering how much that factored in instead of being overly critical. Entering some kind of null-scum into lets flip em read is jarring to me.

Aureal and Ali/MariaR I have to read more carefully. Agree with Hu Tao read.

Going over Gimli's and DE's isos and body of work is exhausting. Attempting to wrestle with their posts has been as close to a fool's errand if there ever was one. While doing this a couple of Sunflower posts pinged me. Those are 175 and 313.

I find Sunflower's 175 read fake. There is no reason to stick with a town read if there is both a good scum and town explanation for DE's behavior. In the single game I have played with him I have also seen DE be a more thoughtful and analytical player so "it feels his brain works this way" strikes me as handwavy to couch a subpar unjustified read. Relatedly 313 makes me question if they forgot their read. They did not land south of null as the combo of 163 and 175 together demonstrate. There does seem to be a point from posts 138 to 142 where it could be claimed they made a sorting attempt and only then landed on a town read but that is explicitly not what was said/claimed. Slips like this, forgetting timelines of reads, might look trivial but I take it as a strong indication that the reads were made up in the first place. Town has much more control of knowing what they thought when they thought it.

If I look at sunflower's posting holistically over the moonrise phase, They have a load of posts (Jupiter being the more guilty party here) that clearly intentionally distance themselves from the game but only sprinkle in the occasional read. One on DE, one on Ydrasse, and one on Aureal, all light townreads all potentially reversible (maybe not DE's). Now this is clearly intended as Sunflower wasted no time in delivering a wall suggesting a pool of reads were building up faked or not. I question this strategy would come from a town mindset though while at the same time injecting in the main thread a post count only 2nd and pretty much equal to DE. It's not natural and there's a more clear scum benefit and less clear town one if any. Even Black who started with just setup spec got into gear and engaged w.e one's opinion on it.

I cannot completely judge the content of posts 592 and 624 as I haven't read into Catgirls and Aureal but from inadvertently skimming both here and there nothing from them had caught my eye as townposting. Both are the next two people I look into. Other reads don't necessarily look like the absolute worst takes as Prism has suggested but Jupiter saying Prism has "rancid vibes" really doesn't track well especially considering the conversation they had from 571 to 575 where Prism was treated cordially. And as for the case against me I am acutely aware I am a soft target. The case boils down to extrapolating meta and inactivity and not the particulars of my content. Others like Kirigiri have criticized me in a much more believable way.

VOTE: Sunflower

[ActionDan]

Before anything let's try to look for who DE hid behind shall we? If klick that would suck. I'm going to iso now.

[ActionDan]

"So yeah I'm just going to let someone cop her. Maybe myself because I may or may not be an investigation role. Hmmmmmm. Anyway yeah I'm not down for voting her today if only because I value my own sanity."

Its Aureal.

[ActionDan]

Klick kill makes sense

[ActionDan]

640

[ActionDan]

My thoughts on Aureal are summarized below from the night time reading which I didn't quite finish since I didn't read Klick in depth which might have helped.

Spoiler: Aureal

Everything up to 669 is completely well and good in line with my expectations.

669 is less fine. Gimli getting lock town status is quite premature. A big undeserved jump from a mild townread previously. Needs expansion. Also a lot of partner theory pairing and such so early which is something I do not like to see. Woe is me would sum up that post and while perhaps parts are understandable we all deal with the same problems.

I do need to probably iso klick / Aureal in conjunction to see how that flows though.

691. I don't see why Aureal has to work backwards by injecting partner reads into the equation. Isos and rereading people are part of mafia in any game. I dunno, yeah we can't exactly live in the moment with the sheep PR but isos and rereading and analysis are valuable tools in lieu of questions.

That Chipotle accusation comes in a bit fast. Based off 3rd on wagon? Despite being on the CW it does not feel to me like normal wagon analysis applies here as Hu was largely a consensus read aside from Klick or Prism signing on.

Will check to see if Aureal gives anything away but I sense her posting was careful not to.

[ActionDan]

you really shouldn't, I wouldn't.

In the meantime I have two questions for Sunflower and Catgirl.

For Catgirls.

I would really like to know what you guys have been thinking about Aureal, as you voted there and feels like there's something on the tip of your tongue but have yet to say it.

For Jupiter: what made you put/declare Aureal a scum read in 830?

[ActionDan]

Of the dreams absolutely 100% should be Superman and Parts. For the 3rd I'd like to avoid a flooding house and pitchworks (nothing good ever comes from turning on the mod). DnD favorite spell sounds like wild fireball or something which I dunno how that would play out but I think I prefer it over the one with "EVERYBODY" and "hate". I do love Trig and math can't kill you so maybe it's not that terrible, but best to avoid too.

At this point in time it looks like I'm the only one but I still think Sunflower is scum originally posited in 671.

Sunflower has produced a lot of words on Gimli but it doesn't quite pack the oomph they might think. Yes Gimli is typically a more cautious perhaps even less flighty player as town whose reads are detailed in paragraphs rather than sentences but that is insufficient alone to think he is playing in style so much differently here. There's a few accusations scattered over a few wall posts. Gimli playing positionally, Gimli buttering up townreads, Gimli too easily making townreads and reads in general being too fluid. All that is circumstantial evidence. I can maybe see this applied to Gimli's Catgirls read which has changed from Scum to town to scum again could create whiplash, but if we look at Gimli's attitude towards me and towards sunflower I don't think Sunflower does a good job addressing either or is purposely omitting detail they don't think is important. Sunflower jumps on Gimli for going along with Klick's reasoning for finding me town due to my dream thoughts. I agree that's not the strongest reasoning, I likely would have given the same opinions as scum, but that's only about 1/3 of the reason Gimli gave for reversing his opinion. More problematic is the inability to address Gimli's change of heart with regard to Sunflower themselves. As presented you might think Gimli only did so on a whim to bolster a narrow POE of scum candidates after finding the rest of the game towny. But more than just switching the read because "a few people started suspecting Sunflower's slot" Gimli was specific that he liked my case against them. So if Sunflower wanted to show that Gimli was only frivolously and fluidly changing his reads to serve a scum agenda it would behoove Sunflower to tear that case apart. They do not. The only times it has been addressed was by Jupiter who only attacked it on its weakest point regarding their use of "rancid vibes" in relation to Prism which was imo over the top but fair enough. The promise to come back to it by Jupiter was not fulfilled and I don't think Fire has ever even acknowledged it. Considering their vote was on me before Gimli ignoring it doubly does not make sense and makes me wonder if they are making a calculation to do so and not enter that mire (or perhaps they simply can't answer sufficiently well).

In the exchanges between Prism and Sunflower I can parse somewhat of the 4d chess they use to read each other though I can only extract a sense that Prism is town from it. My related takeaway is that Jupiter not immediately owning up to being the impetus behind the vote in 627 is bizarre if the series of events happened according to Jupiter which makes me think it very much did not happen that way and that Fire's "private thoughts" were the only ones influencing that vote. In any case if Jupiter's memory seems good enough to recall the details of how the vote in 627 came to be I'm pretty skeptical that Jupiter who has admitted to knowing Fire scumread Gimli in 624, later forgets and wonders why the slot is voting him at EoD despite Fire's often expressed scumread there, and then feels confident enough to throw out 830 (bonus there's a mention of Fire's readlist at the time of the vote on Prism) , and then posts 954 and 957. This doesn't add up to me.

I asked about 830 recently to see how Jupiter got from Aureal null to Aureal scum and the answer is basically another instance of memory loss and gut. Assuming this is also the case with the Gimli scumread expressed in the same post then there really is absolutely no consistency with Jupiter's reads ever which are all based on gut.

Aureal being scum fits just fine with Sunflower scum. From Aureal's side, I think she hasn't really spewed anyone (even Ydrasse) as town or scum so far. From Sunflower's side aside from what I've said about Jupiter, Fire had a "Aureal push is bad vibes" stance and I think that was it.

I also did read over Catgirls and post my analysis later after some more review.

[ActionDan]

@aureal: what did dragon do in death note? I think I forgot

I was talking about the whole thing where he basically outted the detective by not paying attention to what he was doing, which I explained after the game was why I targeted his slot to investigate, which then confused everyone into clearing you.

For those not in the game, the detective was the town flagbearer: when they die, town has one more day to catch the scum flagbearer or they lose. Dan was the assistant, who knew the detective's identity and tried to let him know by crumbing at him. After Dan got pressured and claimed to be PR, Dragon asked Dan if he had crumbed (a horrible thing to ask rather than just look for himself given that Dan had actually crumbed the IDENTITY of the detective in a not-so-subtle way). Dan shot him down, and Dragon didn't pay attention to that as a warning sign at all. He didn't take the hint that there was indeed crumbing, and proceeded to lead a flashwagon on the detective's slot with just a few hours to deadline, forcing Dan to essentially out the detective's identity plainly to avoid him actually getting voting out. It was an easily avoidable disaster for town, because Dragon ran with his gut instead of paying attention to details.

While I sympathize because that was incredibly annoying at the time, not following through with his crumb this game would be tantamount to throwing it. I iso'd backwards and nothing is on the level of the crumb he gave about targeting you. Before I got there the only thing remotely close was the post on Prism "It'd be funny if Prism became a townread of mine. It's Scary..." Etc. I cannot entertain the possibility.

[ActionDan]

In any case if Jupiter's memory seems good enough to recall the details of how the vote in 627 came to be

perhaps the reason why i remember exactly what happened was because fire and i had extensive conversation that night about our post and then prism????? i think there's a very logical flow between "i'm going back to dms to check" - > long explanation of what happened
ur actually full of shit

Sure you're not projecting here?

pedit: if that was your readlist then why did you forget scumreading Gimli.

[ActionDan]

Jupiter was +town because it was completely unnecessary.

Or it was retconned to dissuade you.

[ActionDan]

i'm not gonna go back 300 posts just to answer a question about something that probably doesnt matter because i dropped a read that i felt at the time liek I clearly dont think gimli and aureal are partnered anymore???

Then nothing really matters to you anyway. You townread Gimli now, will that matter in 300 posts? It ought to. Should I be appeased when you say gut again?

[ActionDan]

Hmmm I would not like to underestimate Jupiter, or if it was instruction from Fire.

[ActionDan]

@Black, you were scum with Jupiter recently, would you consider this within his scumrange? (I have looked over some of the game)

[ActionDan]

Get your votes in if you haven't already. I highly suggest superman, parts, and Dnd. I won't be here but will have more to say after moonphase

[ActionDan]

Fire, please address 671, my original case.

Jupiter, though ideally hydras can and should be aware of their other heads arguments and reads I certainly don't expect you to answer for fire at this point nor have I have I ever instructed you to as you claim

[ActionDan]

ok there. i am not really sure what you think was useful about me responding to that

It was very useful, even delightful. I got to see your thoughts that I otherwise would not have. It was at the very least better than spending 3 days proving the singular point that Gimli was not necessarily performing 100% to his town meta which I don't think was useful for anyone to hear aside from Dragon.

I still am not sure how you figure you got more out of holding back D1 (I'm not just talking about your every thought) than not but I am otherwise satisfied with your post and can move on. Not exactly sure where though.

[ActionDan]

5 mins goes by and people are getting carried away

[ActionDan]

I mean there's a soft within 2 secs

[ActionDan]

In the last iteration of this game scum I believe had a singular role that could force a choice of dream or some such if you guys were referencing rule 9. I hard disagree that dream revealer is scum in this setup though.

[ActionDan]

I'm going to sleep myself soon (but come on he clearly hid behind Aureal). If you doubt that look at those cheeky Flood / Trig votes. Claim them now now-Aureal people or forever hold your piece

[ActionDan]

hat is wrong with voting Flood/Trig, though?

Everything. They look cursorily disastrous + other options were just so much obviously better. I'm happy to claim. In fact if someone wants to do the busy work and make a chart of claims that'd be kinda nice. Dream 1: 11 to 12, Car Seat, Vi ; Dream 2: Superman, Parts, Dnd

[ActionDan]

At the risk of being more explicit ill just say I can't see myself voting ydrasse ever of she is what we are all thinking. I could argue why when we get there

[ActionDan]

I will have almost 0 time to even think about this game for at least 35 hours or so.

[ActionDan]

My spicy read is I think X is either dreamer or a wolf but I don't need to worry about that until tomorrow.

It is noticed

[ActionDan]

Hello flip aureal. I still have a town read on kiri. Nothing else to add atm

[ActionDan]

My vote is ready when you guys are

[ActionDan]

Last game that was the PR mafia role so I assume the same this game

[ActionDan]

Last game that was the PR mafia role so I assume the same this game

by this are you saying that you think there aren't other mafia PRs?

Actually I think I spoke too soon. Rule 9 points to a scum role which was in the previous game (I need to refresh myself on details of roles there).

[ActionDan]

I probably should overprepare.

Don't use Reporter shot on me. It will only result in tears.

I hate this

[ActionDan]

Prism tricked scum into thinking they were the dreamer.

[ActionDan]

I'll revisit Kyoko but I am doubtful I will come to a different conclusion. If the kill pointed to anything other than what I suspect it would be SR.

Pedit you don't get that? What about your spicy observation?

[ActionDan]

Different head?

[ActionDan]

Different conclusion referring to townreading Kyoto to clarify. My other question still applies though

[ActionDan]

I'm just now realizing that pages 71-73 exist

[ActionDan]

OK I wasn't quite sure previously but this does not smell like the aliase scum bullshit I've seen before after reading those last few pages. Kyoto being frozen angel is stunning to me, unless I'm miss remembering FA

[ActionDan]

I like giant tower, disco ball (detective?), and maybe waterfall. These choices a lot more ambiguous than others

[ActionDan]

Thread locked before I could post, but I took the time to reread Kirk's blessedly compact iso, thoughts below:

Rereading Kiri throughly now doesn't change my initial read after her Hu Tao case. That is still town. For the Hu case itself I remember catgirls describe it as cold and analytical but I still don't have that impression, it does have heart. I also do not see much to criticize Day 2. The focus on players pretty much dropped to just Von and Catgirls but I think that's very understandable as Kiri playing defensively in response to scumreads by both and having previous questions/concerns with either slot that clearly ballooned. I dont see how their posts and progression more likely would come from scum than town.

Will reread SR next.

Also as an aside I thought Gimli got very comfortable reading me as locktown for no good reason really and was thinking he might have been scum afterall. But am curious to hear why he went the other way for you Catgirl.

Still don't have a particularly strong scum suspect. I will be Isoing one by one.

[ActionDan]

I know you are very keen on this. I do think wolf Kyoto can do this. Just find it not more likely than a town Kyoto. What differences would we see if Kyoto was town here?

[ActionDan]

Thread locked before I could post, but I took the time to reread Kirk's blessedly compact iso, thoughts below:

Rereading Kiri throughly now doesn't change my initial read after her Hu Tao case. That is still town. For the Hu case itself I remember catgirls describe it as cold and analytical but I still don't have that impression, it does have heart. I also do not see much to criticize Day 2. The focus on players pretty much dropped to just Von and Catgirls but I think that's very understandable as Kiri playing defensively in response to scumreads by both and having previous questions/concerns with either slot that clearly ballooned. I dont see how their posts and progression more likely would come from scum than town.

Will reread SR next.

Also as an aside I thought Gimli got very comfortable reading me as locktown for no good reason really and was thinking he might have been scum afterall. But am curious to hear why he went the other way for you Catgirl.

Still don't have a particularly strong scum suspect. I will be Isoing one by one.

How about you throw your read away and you sheep me

I love how direct and to the point you are Ali lol

But Dan, what do you think about how Ali said Kyo gets like that when Kyo is scum?

My memory of FA is a bit foggy but if I recall they were frequently a fade as town and scum and I am surprised they are Kiri because Kiri's play here regardless of alignment is rather sophisticated. So I suppose I am curious to learn more, and see what Ali is talking about with pulling all the stops etc in support of their scummates or even what it means to not lose wolf games in context

[ActionDan]

I know you are very keen on this. I do think wolf Kyoto can do this. Just find it not more likely than a town Kyoto. What differences would we see if Kyoto was town here?

I do get this. Many games I've had where the list pairs down to like 6-8 players and you just know ~75% are town. I think I may get there if I iso.

I mean if kyoko was town this would be a whole different game.
This is not a question that I know how to answer.
The matter of the situation is that there are people who are town, and there are people who are not town, and Kyoko is one of the people that are not town in this game.

[ActionDan]

I do think there was appetite for Aureal and as you said Klick was influential. If push came to shove and their was a tie say in Aureal / Hu wagons I would almost certainly have trusted klick and voted Aureal alone, and thats before reading Aureal that night

[ActionDan]

I have to go back and look at votes but as far as timing goes I remember most votes on me and hu split even or so before klick posted and gimli supported klick's post. Then my wagon poofed and hu retained their votes anyway. I forgot where kiri was in that I think after?

Gun to head I get shot from indecisiveness as I don't know. Why am I and SR cross outs? But then who is he appealing to as scum really?

[ActionDan]

I might have better luck reading enchant. 1841 is his one town post here.

[ActionDan]

I will be working all day but will read some tonight.

Was Sunflower a less than town read for you n1 Von?

[ActionDan]

Wait i mean t vs t

Kirigiri / catgirls? I can't help thinking same still.

[ActionDan]

Von on the reread list after SR. Not the biggest fan of Drew recently, I'm sure it's mutual

[ActionDan]

Did you notice Drew taking a few potshots at me recently? XD

[ActionDan]

No worries!

[ActionDan]

I feel like the Belle at the ball

[ActionDan]

I was prepared to let this go if the overwhelming motive for recruitment was based on wanting to talk to towny people over this possible whimsical theory based on no more than what we all can see, but some of the posting indicates leaning into it more than mere whimsical fantasy. Also clearly balance wise this would be overpowered, even a causal observer could figure that out. Offering this reason without vetting it is a rather unforced error though. I am tempted to declare this a wash

[ActionDan]

I still haven't isoed work got busy etc. Maybe tonight. I see inventor claim , not what I was expecting and sadly not the claim(s) I would town read

[ActionDan]

Adjacently related I would unequivocally deem both the dream revealer and the dream reuser as town

[ActionDan]

I've been more busy than expected dealing with movers and moving into new apartment plus work. Should have a min tonight and way more time this weekend

[ActionDan]

Sorry to make more excuses just a lot going on in my life, but today is wfh so no more. I'll change up reading von first before kiri. I do think there's no chance this is town v town. So yes expect a vote at some point but I am using the remaining time.

[ActionDan]

Von before SR*

[ActionDan]

Ok reread Von Payne thoroughly for the first two days. Skimmed most of Day 3 as a lot is going over the motivations for Neighborhood choices. My notes from this are below but I'm more interested in the answers to questions throughout.

145 - if talking about 2nd deathnote game I'm not sure I'd categorize Gimli's play as tons of solving.
361 - 366 tracking DE reads makes sense
373 - good follow up

374 - what tugged Dragon read away from scum at this point (similar thoughts to 622)?

-389 The Choices are so bad I'd feel self-conscious as scum ever publicizing them.

-564 Decent thought by Drew

-568 Did Black have an opinion on me at this point (from 622 supposedly not)? (did Drew?)

-569 What prompted this vote over others?

General D1 question: How did you guys privately sort your DE and Hu tao reads, if at all, and what progression did you have here? 1735-1736 would imply there was at least some talk around this time.

-768 is a fine post
-772 typical drew being a trusted source for Aureal meta reads
-782 reads townie
-783 considering I was pretty fine with Aureal up until 669 this analysis is believable. However, considering Gimli was black's hard scum read at this point you'd think Aureal elevating Gimli to lock town would raise an eyebrow.
-948 Still think that's a really undeserved Aureal placement.

-973 on the surface looks incongruent with the theories swirling about the role being more than what it seems. I'm not sure I would have posted this had I had those thoughts as town.

-1033 Drew being tone deaf and dragging this inconsequential point out aligns with what I've seen him do with me/others as town at least, unsure if he does the same as scum.

-1132 why is this still being engaged with, is this a real thought or just posturing knowing Aureal is most certainly outed?
-1215 I guess so. 1257 also. Hard to believe this was posted by scum unless Drew really thinks there's a chance Aureal could be saved. There is none.

1531- when did Gimli become townie to you drew?

General Day 2 and beyond questions for Black: Gimli/enchant is barely ever mentioned again after the scum read of them over N1 and into D2. Both Me and Gimli have appeared in the last colorful reads list (when Kiri dropped to Orange with us). We are still in the game, how do you feel about either of us: is there a progression on your reads here?

Overall I would tend to think the slot is town. Drew's posting in particular is quite close to where I can't see him posting as scum. I might want to see a Drew scum game to understand the extent of his capabilities.

Isoing SR next

[ActionDan]

210 - Reality is how SR describes it: Gimli used Meta. Was worthy at the time to explore.
655 Is Ydrasse not fitting in socially here as she would in other games? Did you have any scumreads here? If so why no vote?

Gif's series of posting from 1101 - 1123 are bubbly and feel at least quite town on reread. I suppose nothing that can't be faked, but I award it imaginary town points.

Dunn pressing Jupitor from 1422 - 1445 was warranted. Decently good thought process. I don't think the conclusion that Jupitor's answers were scum indicative is strong however. It is true though that Jupitor must have embellished Fire's explanation for a Ydrasse town read by attempting to utilize a foggy recalling of opening post setup details. I do not think they have to be covering for a scum PR.

Siding with Kiri over Von Payne is fine. What is your current Ydrasse read?

Overall, I am ambivalent. On Dunn's posting there is a tendency to be reactive to current events in thread rather than proactively looking for where scum might be (the occasional exception exists e.g. thinking Gimli/Aureal are not partnered) . That may well be a by-product of time spent on the game and busy schedules. However when reacting, I find the thoughts appropriate and not carrying a baseline of opportunism + I do think Gif's posting in particular has been townie. Theoretically SR's posting may fit a scum profile but I don't believe it to be.

[ActionDan]

Can you and black answer the questions I've outlined in 2452?

[ActionDan]

I'm voting for Kyoto and I will not waiver for the rest of this day. In the end this is me trusting Catgirls more than anything. They are willing to accept that responsibility and I am not going to refuse giving it to them. I've read the last few pages and really the three perspectives from Sunflower / Von / and Kiri ALL make sense. Ignoring getting into the nuances of the individual arguments, it's an endless cycle of doubt and skepticism without any clear town or scum agenda as to whether these efforts constitute scumhunting or mere survival from all parties involved. They all make sense from either faction.

Role-wise there is a difference to me between inventor that gives out an ability to select a discarded dream and a specific role giving a person that had it the same agency. I think the latter would have to be town as its too strong in scum hands.

Left to my own devices I probably would be voting for SR right now.

My vote would put Kyoto to E-1. I will not do that for a another 4-5 hours in case people would like to talk more as exhausting as I'm sure that is for everyone. I would still like Black to the questions I've posed her. I am ok with Drew's.

[ActionDan]

I'm not sure if you've noticed Enchant but the rest of the world has dropped us as suspects or called us town. And thus we are.

[ActionDan]

VOTE: kirigiri

[ActionDan]

Catgirls am I operating under a false assumption?

[ActionDan]

I will be reevaluating I can assure you of that

[ActionDan]

I still think Enchant / Ydrasse are town.

[ActionDan]

Get your hands up, All eyes on me all eyes in me

[ActionDan]

In an indirect way you might have been able.

[ActionDan]

gg scum wp. Fun game. Curious about dreams

[ActionDan]

I'm OK with my pt release

[ActionDan]

/prein for that one whenever it comes around

[ActionDan]

Actually I do have to apologize for something aside from voting Kiri. It's not bringing the real 2013 energy into the game.

heheHEHEHEHUEHAUEHAUHAARGHKKHKFHEUAUAHUA

[ActionDan]

CHESSKID