Large Normal 247 - Day 5

[KayJayQueue]

So, oblivion was arguably a major force pushing the ranger wagon over the finish line. How do you square that with your other stances on the slot?

I don’t think it’s so much the push that makes me feel weird because a hard push on scum would normally be a good thing, but the day after the flip when it is going around saying it is obvtown for the push and that we must listen to it’s solves and the forcefulness of it’s views thereafter. That part made me feel uneasy.

[Psyche]

okay. and just so i understand: how does the post flip stuff connect to a possible scum wincon for you?

[KayJayQueue]

in general i wonder if you could review your idea of what went down on D2 because i wasn't there and didn't really scan timestamps and knew the outcome as i went

Honestly, it felt like Oblivion and I were on the same page D2 of letting Ranger catch up and giving her all the time she needed before making a decision (there were a ton of reasons why she kept needed more time which was honestly annoying but I really wanted to hear her reads) When Ranger claimed, that’s when we differed. Oblivion immediately saw through the claim and I did not and stayed skeptical about voting her because of it. Especially because after the claim, I was still waiting for her to go into detail about her reads not just the exhaustive lists with no context. I guess her unwillingness to expand should’ve tipped me off but the claim made me pause. She seemed like an experienced player and I was hoping for her insight because I thought it could help me with my reads if she saw something I didn’t.

[KayJayQueue]

okay. and just so i understand: how does the post flip stuff connect to a possible scum wincon for you?

Well if we locktown Oblivion for the Ranger push when it is actually scum, I feel like we’d lose in the end if it is there.

Unless I’m not understanding your question.

[Psyche]

going around saying it is obvtown for the push and that we must listen to it’s solves and the forcefulness of it’s views thereafter

I'm asking why you think these behaviors in particular suggest a scum win condition. Why do you think oblivion would be less likely to say these things as town?

[KayJayQueue]

going around saying it is obvtown for the push and that we must listen to it’s solves and the forcefulness of it’s views thereafter

I'm asking why you think these behaviors in particular suggest a scum win condition. Why do you think oblivion would be less likely to say these things as town?

I don’t necessarily think it’s something only scum would do but I guess I find it hard to believe someone could be so confident they solved the game just because of one flip. And it was wrong about Naerys so it didn’t have the game solved. I think that’s what put me on an opposite side from
Oblivion. It was so certain Naerys was scum and I was certain she wasn’t. I had a strong townread on Naerys since day 1 and I really believed in it so when Obliviin kept pushing her, I really felt (inwardly) defensive since I was sure Naerys was town. If anything, made that’s what turned me off of oblivion more than anything.

The problem is, town can be wrong too and it doesn’t mean scum was pushing a mislim. It could be town that’s wrong after being very right about another slot. But I have to decide which one I think it is and my options are slim so right now I’m leaning scum.

[Gypyx]

VOTE: Psyche

[Lycanfire]

Frankly after seeing how penguin treated ranger immediately upon replace (at this point I had just replaced in and was reading at two different starting points making it seem much more distant) I can't see this as a bus. I'd also be pretty upset if I jammed for hours with scum at the end of day 3 before deadline.

[biancospino]

4.07

Votecount 4.07

geraintm (2): Lycanfire, Psyche
Psyche (2): Random Nurse, Gypyx
Oblivion (1): Enchant

Not Voting (4): Oblivion, geraintm, Thomith, KayJayQueue

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-04-29 13:51:06).

Mod Notes: The combined mod ISO is here.

[Lycanfire]

I felt similarly as demotivated as oblivion yesterday when Gypyx-Thomith took over the game. I tried to get Oblivion back in for a couple reasons- for starters they were my biggest townread, it worked before when I talked it and Ranger from deathspiraling the same argument, and - I don't know why nobody has cared about this so far - but my reason for abruptly jumping off Snow was because I thought Oblivion had an innocent on them.
(They used much stronger language than if they had a guilty on Naerys.)

Back to my point on their d3, scum should have been feeling giddy that I said I'd give them my vote. Absences happen, but after I started making waves that would have been a great opportunity to use me as an instrument of chaos. Oblivion continued popping by every few days to say naerys should die.

[Psyche]

Hmmmm. I'm kind of ambivalent about how much I believe this answer. Overconfident town are relatively common and I'm sure you've had a lot of experience them. And it seems sort of natural that validating someone's take on their game w/ a flip would increase their confidence in said take. Furthermore, Oblivion was already really confident on D2 as well re: Ranger. In addition, you had yourself as an example of profound confidence on D3 while you were developing that scumlean. But I guess I can see how seeing someone express confidence about a clearly wrong opinion can make you wonder if the opinion was genuine. Still, on the other hand, Lycanfire whom you townread also seemed quite confident that Naeyrs would flip scum. Overall unless you have some sort of grudge against oblivion for putting you on the defensive yesterday, I'm still having trouble seeing why you'd rank it so lowly compared to other slots. Especially given its role in the Ranger wagon you sort of stood against. Either way, we'll definitely continue not seeing eye-to-eye about how town the slot is.

this post needs more line breaks. oh well

[Psyche]

if yall actually lim me, i'm not accepting any of the blame. you're just bad at reading slots at that point.

[Psyche]

has gypyx suggested any reasons why im scummy yet

[Lycanfire]

I think after I reversed my read on your slot and took away a non-Ranger voter out of contention (snow) I was feeling high like I did at the start of d3. For what it's worth I still think the game is as simple as it was yesterday-

Naerys is bait and without a mass claim I still thought this was 11:4, so if I scratch your name off my list from yesterday and leave random nurse+geraint I think we had it.

[geraintm]

I felt similarly as demotivated as oblivion yesterday when Gypyx-Thomith took over the game.

they have thrown the whole game for me. i got into a fight with them, then they claimed and i felt bad for not having been clued up into what i was meant to know. then i felt later i got push back on that i don't want to let them live right into the end game so there is that too.

now psyche is scum reading me because of stuff that i havent done but someone else has so i have zero way of interacting with that except to go Nu huh! and i am never going to be able to out post them to win an argument with them so that leaves me cold too.

i've basically got 3 players i don't want to go near today, which leaves 5.
oblivion, kay, enchant, lycan and psyche.

[Lycanfire]

Im on mobile but it should be obvious that the fake read I found was in geraint - iirc ranger p27 tierlist

[Lycanfire]

In addition to the whack movement in my 1-15 (33,34,36,42) analysis.

[KayJayQueue]

I’m not saying town can’t be wrong. I don’t know what else you want me to say. Well I guess I do, you want me to agree with your reads. I don’t feel good about Oblivion but I don’t have strong reads on others. Gera and RN - I have no idea how to sort them. I know gera has votes but i don’t even know if I fully understand why. I’d love to figure these two slots out but I can’t. Whereas I have reasons, however much you disagree with them, for feeling wary of Oblivion and Enchant, so that’s why they’d be my top choices to vote today.

[Psyche]

I felt similarly as demotivated as oblivion yesterday when Gypyx-Thomith took over the game.

they have thrown the whole game for me. i got into a fight with them, then they claimed and i felt bad for not having been clued up into what i was meant to know. then i felt later i got push back on that i don't want to let them live right into the end game so there is that too.

now psyche is scum reading me because of stuff that i havent done but someone else has so i have zero way of interacting with that except to go Nu huh! and i am never going to be able to out post them to win an argument with them so that leaves me cold too.

i've basically got 3 players i don't want to go near today, which leaves 5.
oblivion, kay, enchant, lycan and psyche.

I'd disagree of course that I'm scumreading you for stuff you haven't done. I just don't believe your account of things.

What have you done today to find a good preference order among these 5?

[Psyche]

I’m not saying town can’t be wrong. I don’t know what else you want me to say. Well I guess I do, you want me to agree with your reads. I don’t feel good about Oblivion but I don’t have strong reads on others. Gera and RN - I have no idea how to sort them. I know gera has votes but i don’t even know if I fully understand why. I’d love to figure these two slots out but I can’t. Whereas I have reasons, however much you disagree with them, for feeling wary of Oblivion and Enchant, so that’s why they’d be my top choices to vote today.

Motivation was about desire to persuade you about oblivion, and more about determining whether you really believe what you're saying. I'm trying to clarify whether you really scumread oblivion or are just scum trying to look that way.

[Psyche]

I’m not saying town can’t be wrong. I don’t know what else you want me to say. Well I guess I do, you want me to agree with your reads. I don’t feel good about Oblivion but I don’t have strong reads on others. Gera and RN - I have no idea how to sort them. I know gera has votes but i don’t even know if I fully understand why. I’d love to figure these two slots out but I can’t. Whereas I have reasons, however much you disagree with them, for feeling wary of Oblivion and Enchant, so that’s why they’d be my top choices to vote today.

Motivation was

less

about desire to persuade you about oblivion, and more about determining whether you really believe what you're saying. I'm trying to clarify whether you really scumread oblivion or are just scum trying to look that way.

EBWOP

[Gypyx]

has gypyx suggested any reasons why im scummy yet

The way you're playing feels deliberate and idk... fake? I'm not talking to someone who needs to figure out the game

for instance, you suddenly putting so much weigth on my shoulders is making me feel weird

[Psyche]

the least believable thing is the idea that oblivion's confidence D3 came off as scummy to you
but i think there are a few good reasons to treat this as NAI -- top two are 1) you evidently found the idea of naeyrs being scum this game unthinkable and also 2) it seems from key posts in this thread that you took oblivion's criticism of your naeyrs townread kind of personally
the first could make scumreading naeyrs look scummy by default, and the second could create a scumlean via halo effect alone
fact that you are only vaguely scumleaning oblivion matches with the small effects these factors could be expected to have on a read, so the overall profile looks consistent

[Psyche]

has gypyx suggested any reasons why im scummy yet

The way you're playing feels deliberate and idk... fake? I'm not talking to someone who needs to figure out the game

for instance, you suddenly putting so much weigth on my shoulders is making me feel weird

unfortunately this is still too nothing for me to meaningfully engage with
if i do flip today maybe it'll provide a useful lesson about basing votes on vague idk feels

[Psyche]

i know i shouldn't but stuff like this makes me blink. just gotta ignore it