Shell Game (Night 5)

[Firebagel]

My main impression of Firebagel, besides liking their cheekiness, is that in this playerlist they give me LHF feels. I have an alt guess, but I haven't actually played a game with the player I'm thinking of so I'm not putting much stock in it, other than to note that if I'm right I wouldn't can that player LHF

What resulted in bagel getting above the line in your reads list?

Her interaction with Oblivion mostly. It's one example of her not making adjustments from pushback/scumreads.

I was not townreading her before the Oblivion interaction.

If this were a smaller player list, seeing players I'm not townreading jumping on her wagon once it started would be giving me a nasty case of hives. Even with the player list size, I'm not happy about specifically how that wagon has grown.

Wait, who are these people you're not townreading jumping on my wagon? Dragons? Am I confused in thinking you're townreading Dunnstral?

[morph the cat]

At least 4 people have said something along those lines, why are you calling out sunflower for it in particular

Because sunflower is the one scumread I've formed so far that hasn't weakened. You can brush off my vote of them all you like. The only thing that will change my read is more data from/about Sunflower.

[Dunnstral]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

[morph the cat]

Firebagel, I was actually confusing your wagon with Firebringer's. I'm townreading two players on him in the latest VC.

VC 1.7

Firebringer 5 (Dannflor, Shello, Penguin, Sunflower, CSF)
STD 3 (Hermit, Pooky, Brian Skies)
Dannflor 3 (Firebagel, Firebringer, STD)
marcistar 2 (ActionDan, Bingle)
Firebagel 2 (Dunnstral, Lukewarm)
Sunflower 2 (Klick, Spiffeh)
Spiffeh 1 (Gypyx)

Not voting (Oblivion, SirCakez, marcistar, morph)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to fire a player into the sun.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-09 04:07:00)

[Firebringer]

im back from work. I feel like i missed nothing

[Dannflor]

you didn't miss me?

[Firebringer]

also is bingle’s claim even serious

no

[Firebringer]

I want to see where this goes.

VOTE: Firebringer

u think its going to go somewhere?

[Firebringer]

I mean....good vote citizen!!

[morph the cat]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

[Firebringer]

you didn't miss me?

of course i did dear taxpayer. I need you to line my mayoral mansion with ur tax bills

[Firebagel]

Firebagel, I was actually confusing your wagon with Firebringer's. I'm townreading two players on him in the latest VC.

VC 1.7

Firebringer 5 (Dannflor, Shello, Penguin, Sunflower, CSF)
STD 3 (Hermit, Pooky, Brian Skies)
Dannflor 3 (Firebagel, Firebringer, STD)
marcistar 2 (ActionDan, Bingle)
Firebagel 2 (Dunnstral, Lukewarm)
Sunflower 2 (Klick, Spiffeh)
Spiffeh 1 (Gypyx)

Not voting (Oblivion, SirCakez, marcistar, morph)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to fire a player into the sun.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-09 04:07:00)

OK, that makes more sense. Does clearing that confusion affect how you view the wagon? (which I am currently on as well because )

[Lukewarm]

Reading through the Sunflower/Klick discussion.

Spoiler:

1242 - I don't quite like klicks "Sunflower is actually scum but posts in a less scumread-able way" when the last time Klick mentioned Sunflower, in 968, his stated reason for having Sunflower down as scum was "cuz PoE Dethy"

However, it very quickly goes back to a POE with 1252 and even reconsidering the 0 scum option.

Which is a pretty aggressive whiplash, but I kinda want to say that scum!Klick would purposefully avoid such a whiplash?

1247 - While I did not like 1242, I also don't like sunflower's response to 1242. I don't think of fire as someone who is gonna go "If you think I am scum, you must be scum." Especially because it is presented as like a calm but serious take. Also don't like the question at the end? If he actually thinks it outing, why not let him walk into outing himself? All together this gives vibes of gearing up to what he thinks is in inevitable 1v1.

I also don't think that the reasoning that he presents in 1256 even backs up that claim. Town!Klick can find scum!me, so if he is calling me scum here, then he must be scum. It doesn't flow? More like he is pushing a square geg into a circle hole to support the claim.

counter point - 1316 - does feel like a more genuine engagement with what klick is saying.

Conclusion: if I was forced to vote between klick and sunflower, I would vote sunflower.

I am finding it hard to commit to that, because part of the complaint that sunflower is levying against klick is that the his town reads on STD/AD/Marci don't feel justified, and I don't have access to the hood to judge that?

However, I do think that of what I see in thread, sunflower seems more positional while klick seems to be still feeling around the edges of the situation, in particular with reevaluating the 0 scum option.

[Lukewarm]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

[Save The Dragons]

Don’t worry folks, I will lead us to defeat

Race you there

[morph the cat]

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

[morph the cat]

We talked about voting there right after the whateveritwas happened.

I'm happy where I'm voting.

[morph the cat]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

[Sunflower]

1247 - While I did not like 1242, I also don't like sunflower's response to 1242. I don't think of fire as someone who is gonna go "If you think I am scum, you must be scum." Especially because it is presented as like a calm but serious take. Also don't like the question at the end? If he actually thinks it outing, why not let him walk into outing himself? All together this gives vibes of gearing up to what he thinks is in inevitable 1v1.

I also don't think that the reasoning that he presents in 1256 even backs up that claim. Town!Klick can find scum!me, so if he is calling me scum here, then he must be scum. It doesn't flow? More like he is pushing a square geg into a circle hole to support the claim.

i think there is approximately a 0% chance that town!klick would be genuinely fully confident on a scumread on me in that situation. not even because it's wrong, just based on what i know is in the thread and me having an understanding of how he thinks. im not saying "you're wrong so you're scum", im saying "we both know this isn't real". maybe you're right that it's not optimal approach if he is scum but i was pretty taken aback by him saying it in the first place

bringing up town!klick finding scum!me was for the context of me knowing the process that he very openly and clearly showed when doing that, and so i understand what town!klick developing a scumread on me looks like. i don't think it looks like this

i do think that some of this, like, "what is this, this isn't the town!klick i know" that i was feeling could be coming from what he explained later as him being somewhat out of sorts and in a different headspace than usual. so i want to give him space and let him come back to thread and refresh his reads etc because again i still think that if he's town then we have the chance to find each other

also someone at some point (csf?) asked why i thought scum!klick would feel forced into scumreading me here and i have thought about that and i think it maybe is a point that has some merit. it seemed like the read felt forced to me at the time but it is true that scum!klick could conceivably have other routes there. idk

[morph the cat]

Firebagel, I was actually confusing your wagon with Firebringer's. I'm townreading two players on him in the latest VC.

VC 1.7

Firebringer 5 (Dannflor, Shello, Penguin, Sunflower, CSF)
STD 3 (Hermit, Pooky, Brian Skies)
Dannflor 3 (Firebagel, Firebringer, STD)
marcistar 2 (ActionDan, Bingle)
Firebagel 2 (Dunnstral, Lukewarm)
Sunflower 2 (Klick, Spiffeh)
Spiffeh 1 (Gypyx)

Not voting (Oblivion, SirCakez, marcistar, morph)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to fire a player into the sun.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-09 04:07:00)

OK, that makes more sense. Does clearing that confusion affect how you view the wagon? (which I am currently on as well because )

I think your wagon is misguided.

What do you think of your wagon (however it's currently configured, since it has changed).

I still feel meh about the percentage of non-townreads on Firebringer's wagon despite not being particularly impressed with him so far. There's usually some substance to go with the memes IME.

[Lukewarm]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

That was more of a I had a gut "lmao he just scum claimed" reaction, but then I was instantly tempering that reaction based off of the de ja vu feeling.

But thinking on it more, I landed back on it being scum indicative.

[Sunflower]

inevitable 1v1.

Note that they JUST saw this exact scenario as scum in Midscummer's, from Dunn/Gif scum hydra against Alisae/Maria town hydra.

pretty hard to believe that you're making this comparison in good faith

[Sunflower]

1) the two situations are not alike at all. that was a mechanical counterclaim. this is there's probably a scum in this group of 5 and two people in it suspect each other

2) it implies that i wouldn't know what a 1v1 looks like if i hadn't just seen one which is vaguely insulting lol

[morph the cat]

I find the arguments against SirCakez persuasive. The time gap between posts and also how they entered the thread looking like they were ready to solve but then vanished around the time they would have slipped. Also the idea that they would be spending time looking for how they knew that info.

inorite?

Luke do you think there's something to this?

To the cakez stuff? Or to Dunn repeating it back?

Because I am currently voting Cakez

I didn't internalize this because of wondering about your focus on

my

occasional timing focus.

That was more of a I had a gut "lmao he just scum claimed" reaction, but then I was instantly tempering that reaction based off of the de ja vu feeling.

But thinking on it more, I landed back on it being scum indicative.

Regardless of his alignment, I think Sir Baked, as dubbed by neuterhalf, had an oshit moment and decided to leave it for soberCakez to clean up. Overall I think it was scum indicative.

[Firebagel]

I think your wagon is misguided.

What do you think of your wagon (however it's currently configured, since it has changed).

Yeah, misguided is about how I've felt about it too. Luke is probably town. Dragons is kinda hmmmm at this point which is odd, but maybe the specifics of the game are affecting how he's playing. Can't remember if Pooky ever actually voted me or just thought about it but he's probably town. Dunnstral... well, in a vacuum I'd probably be voting there but people like you are townreading him and I'm inclined to listen to that.