Open 93 - Near Vanilla: Game Over, Mafia Win!

[populartajo]

Kuribo, if you are town, STOP BEING SO CLOSE MINDED.

So, I should disregard the fact that you clearly have time to continue your assault against Darox, but it took you all this time to even begin formulating a case against me?

How can you compare answering a post with 24 paragraphs with general comments of the current situation that dont take even a minute to type?

One in which alot of your defense rests in, "I agree that looks bad, buuuuuuut.....?"

Why dont you read better what I wrote instead of coming up with things like that? Even that, there are things that inherently look bad but that doesnt make me obv scum, you know? What would you think of a 33% rage hammer of a townie? Does it look bad to you? Are you scum for that?

Also, why do you continue to press about what I think of retro? Or the Darox case? I believe I answered those questions on this very page.

I didnt ask for opinions of Darox. I asked opinions of Darox's case. And about retro, how vague can you be? I asked especially in this game, so do you think he is scum: yes or not? I dont want a general opinion. I want a case if you think he is.
After you keep whining for an answer, thats all you have to say?

[kuribo]

Kuribo, if you are town, STOP BEING SO CLOSE MINDED.

YOU FIRST

[populartajo]

Kuribo, if you are town, STOP BEING SO CLOSE MINDED.

YOU FIRST

Woot. Surrender?

[kuribo]

[kuribo]

Kuribo, if you are town, STOP BEING SO CLOSE MINDED.

So, I should disregard the fact that you clearly have time to continue your assault against Darox, but it took you all this time to even begin formulating a case against me?

How can you compare answering a post with 24 paragraphs with general comments of the current situation that dont take even a minute to type?

One in which alot of your defense rests in, "I agree that looks bad, buuuuuuut.....?"

Why dont you read better what I wrote instead of coming up with things like that? Even that, there are things that inherently look bad but that doesnt make me obv scum, you know? What would you think of a 33% rage hammer of a townie? Does it look bad to you? Are you scum for that?

Also, why do you continue to press about what I think of retro? Or the Darox case? I believe I answered those questions on this very page.

I didnt ask for opinions of Darox. I asked opinions of Darox's case. And about retro, how vague can you be? I asked especially in this game, so do you think he is scum: yes or not? I dont want a general opinion. I want a case if you think he is.
After you keep whining for an answer, thats all you have to say?

Of course I'm comparing your "posts that take less than a minute" to the rebuttal I was asking for. That's what I was referring to when I said, "lobbing weak assaults."

Things that look bad may not make you obvscum to YOURSELF, but they certainly do to me. Case in point, your criticism that RBT should have thought you and I scummy because we were voting him. Your defense in using this as a case against ME was that it didn't apply to you because you "know you're town." Well, guess what, I know I'm town. Therefore it DOES apply to you.

It's not ONE "scumtell," that makes you "look bad---" it's the entire kit-n-caboodle. It's not just one or two things you've done, it's the entire pattern that I've laid out that makes you obvscum.

Rage hammer: So what? I wasn't the only person on that bandwagon, and if you don't see why gecko was scummy, you're on drugs.

The case against Darox isn't terrible, but the fact that you're scum makes it hard for me to take it seriously.

Perhaps I wasn't clear, when I said, "I almost always think retro is scum," that statement should have included, "here, too."

[retrowiz]

vote darox

I will switch to Kur at a moments notice, but If I'm wrong, I assume scum will jump on to finish the game.

[populartajo]

Sorry about this but Prob V/LA since today until after Christmas, maybe more.

[Darox]

Since I was so kind to show all the stuff I had on you, perhaps you may be inclined to do the same, because I can see nothing that I haven't already disproven.

Hiiiiiiiiii.

[populartajo]

Since I was so kind to show all the stuff I had on you, perhaps you may be inclined to do the same, because I can see nothing that I haven't already disproven.

Hiiiiiiiiii.

Hi, Darox.
Read, your case on me is the worst case Ive experienced in my whole time here.
Dont quote things. A 5 years old boy can do it. I want a case, one-two lignes. I already assumed your only case is this "Tajo singled out himself with kuribo and he thought he was scum, therefore he must be scum" fiasco. You said this isnt the case. I look again but I dont find anything. THEN I DONT SEE WHATS THE CASE ON ME.
I dont know if this even merits a vote in Lylo.

Of course I'm comparing your "posts that take less than a minute" to the rebuttal I was asking for. That's what I was referring to when I said, "lobbing weak assaults."

This doesnt even make sense. You said that I was avoiding a rebuttal and that I did have time for attacking Darox. Do you think it takes the same amount of time to post 5 paragraphs and to post 1-2 lines?

Things that look bad may not make you obvscum to YOURSELF, but they certainly do to me. Case in point, your criticism that RBT should have thought you and I scummy because we were voting him. Your defense in using this as a case against ME was that it didn't apply to you because you "know you're town." Well, guess what, I know I'm town. Therefore it DOES apply to you.

EXACTLY, EXACTLY. First, stop saying that RBT should think we were scummy because we were voting him. That is not the reasoning behind that. The idea is that he didnt comment anything about us and he did about has and retro even though we were ALL voting him. So when you think someone is scum (RBT) you start wondering, why did he single me with this player? This is pretty much what what I thought. If you are town, its valid to wonder about this, knowing that you also suspected RBT.
So, do you agree with Darox voting me for this?

Rage hammer: So what? I wasn't the only person on that bandwagon, and if you don't see why gecko was scummy, you're on drugs.

I was just bringing a thing that looks bad when you see it from outside. If you werent kuribo, would you think that a rage hammer is a valid action?

The case against Darox isn't terrible, but the fact that you're scum makes it hard for me to take it seriously.

I dont get it. "I am scum" you say. But at the same time, you say that you are careful about voting me. What are you afraid of?

Perhaps I wasn't clear, when I said, "I almost always think retro is scum," that statement should have included, "here, too."

So, that argument he made some time ago that you liked, what happened to it?

[kuribo]

Of course I'm comparing your "posts that take less than a minute" to the rebuttal I was asking for. That's what I was referring to when I said, "lobbing weak assaults."

This doesnt even make sense. You said that I was avoiding a rebuttal and that I did have time for attacking Darox. Do you think it takes the same amount of time to post 5 paragraphs and to post 1-2 lines?[/quote]

No, what I'm saying is that you obviously felt your time was better spent lobbing weak attacks at people instead of defending yourself. Or did you just need time to figure out what you were going to say so you wouldn't be cornered?

[populartajo]

Of course I'm comparing your "posts that take less than a minute" to the rebuttal I was asking for. That's what I was referring to when I said, "lobbing weak assaults."

This doesnt even make sense. You said that I was avoiding a rebuttal and that I did have time for attacking Darox. Do you think it takes the same amount of time to post 5 paragraphs and to post 1-2 lines?

No, what I'm saying is that you obviously felt your time was better spent lobbing weak attacks at people instead of defending yourself. Or did you just need time to figure out what you were going to say so you wouldn't be cornered?[/quote]
Lobbing weak attacks (they are not but for didactic reasons we are going to assume they are) : They take approximately 1-2 minutes to write.
I did them from work.
Defending myself : It takes approximately 20 minutes to quote all your attacks, write a proper answer so that you can understand, preview it, correct the misquotes, etc, etc.
I did it from home.
Got it? GOT IT?!
Did you at least read the other part of my post?

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Didactic reasons.

Of course I'm comparing your "posts that take less than a minute" to the rebuttal I was asking for. That's what I was referring to when I said, "lobbing weak assaults."

This doesnt even make sense. You said that I was avoiding a rebuttal and that I did have time for attacking Darox. Do you think it takes the same amount of time to post 5 paragraphs and to post 1-2 lines?

No, what I'm saying is that you obviously felt your time was better spent lobbing weak attacks at people instead of defending yourself. Or did you just need time to figure out what you were going to say so you wouldn't be cornered?

Lobbing weak attacks

(they are not but for didactic reasons we are going to assume they are) : They take approximately 1-2 minutes to write.
I did them from work.

Defending myself :

It takes approximately 20 minutes to quote all your attacks, write a proper answer so that you can understand, preview it, correct the misquotes, etc, etc.
I did it from home.
Got it? GOT IT?!
Did you at least read the other part of my post?[/quote]

[kuribo]

Since I was so kind to show all the stuff I had on you, perhaps you may be inclined to do the same, because I can see nothing that I haven't already disproven.

Hiiiiiiiiii.

Hi, Darox.
Read, your case on me is the worst case Ive experienced in my whole time here.
Dont quote things. A 5 years old boy can do it. I want a case, one-two lignes. I already assumed your only case is this "Tajo singled out himself with kuribo and he thought he was scum, therefore he must be scum" fiasco. You said this isnt the case. I look again but I dont find anything. THEN I DONT SEE WHATS THE CASE ON ME.
I dont know if this even merits a vote in Lylo.

Of course I'm comparing your "posts that take less than a minute" to the rebuttal I was asking for. That's what I was referring to when I said, "lobbing weak assaults."

This doesnt even make sense. You said that I was avoiding a rebuttal and that I did have time for attacking Darox. Do you think it takes the same amount of time to post 5 paragraphs and to post 1-2 lines?

Things that look bad may not make you obvscum to YOURSELF, but they certainly do to me. Case in point, your criticism that RBT should have thought you and I scummy because we were voting him. Your defense in using this as a case against ME was that it didn't apply to you because you "know you're town." Well, guess what, I know I'm town. Therefore it DOES apply to you.

EXACTLY, EXACTLY. First, stop saying that RBT should think we were scummy because we were voting him. That is not the reasoning behind that. The idea is that he didnt comment anything about us and he did about has and retro even though we were ALL voting him. So when you think someone is scum (RBT) you start wondering, why did he single me with this player? This is pretty much what what I thought. If you are town, its valid to wonder about this, knowing that you also suspected RBT.
So, do you agree with Darox voting me for this?

Rage hammer: So what? I wasn't the only person on that bandwagon, and if you don't see why gecko was scummy, you're on drugs.

I was just bringing a thing that looks bad when you see it from outside. If you werent kuribo, would you think that a rage hammer is a valid action?

The case against Darox isn't terrible, but the fact that you're scum makes it hard for me to take it seriously.

I dont get it. "I am scum" you say. But at the same time, you say that you are careful about voting me. What are you afraid of?

Perhaps I wasn't clear, when I said, "I almost always think retro is scum," that statement should have included, "here, too."

So, that argument he made some time ago that you liked, what happened to it?

RBT: Okay, if we apply your convoluted logic to the situation, we come to the conclusion that since I am town, I can wonder why he singled you out, as well. Of course, RBT was town, so he apparently wasn't bussing either you or me. Why would he have singled anyone out? The problem is that looking back, it looks like you saw RBT as a clearly scummy player and tried to make connections where there were none since you knew he'd come up town. But RBT had no knowledge of anyone's alignment. His singling out you, me, or Jesus Christ is irrelevant.

The rage hammer: I acted irrationally out of annoyance, I admit it, and you're not going to get me to apologize. Probably not my finest hour, but I stick by it.

Voting: You're right, I should absolutely pile votes all over the place in LYLO.

Retrowiz argument: Next time I change my mind about something, I'll be sure to ask your opinion.

[kuribo]

and by "ask your opinion," i meant "ask your permission,' o mighty king of mafia

[populartajo]

RBT: Okay, if we apply your convoluted logic to the situation, we come to the conclusion that since I am town, I can wonder why he singled you out, as well.

Perfect. This exactly assumption is the reason why Darox is voting me. Do you agree?

Of course, RBT was town, so he apparently wasn't bussing either you or me. Why would he have singled anyone out?

At that time, I thought he was scum.

The problem is that looking back, it looks like you saw RBT as a clearly scummy player and tried to make connections where there were none since you knew he'd come up town.

No. I thought he was scum. I was trying to find his scumpartners. And why are you accussing me of something you also did?

But RBT had no knowledge of anyone's alignment. His singling out you, me, or Jesus Christ is irrelevant.

I totally agree. But Darox keeps bringing this. Do you agree?

The rage hammer: I acted irrationally out of annoyance, I admit it, and you're not going to get me to apologize. Probably not my finest hour, but I stick by it.

Never asked for an apology. But do you realize there are things that look scum motivated even if you are town, assuming you are?

You're right, I should absolutely pile votes all over the place in LYLO.

Then, if you are town and you are worried too much about me being town, stop saying that I am scum with such irresponsibility.

Retrowiz argument: Next time I change my mind about something, I'll be sure to ask your opinion.

Hah. You are free to change your mind but you must explain why did you change it. Also, am I still suspicious for changing my mind about RBT?

[kuribo]

Accusing you of something you also did? Sure, but since you decided to use it to launch attacks against me, my point is that painting me as scum for doing it as well was in error. Or a calculated manipulation. This is a perfect example of why I choose not to seek out someone's scum partners until his/her alignment is known.

As for Darox's vote, his reasons are his own. I've outlined MY case against you.

Of course I agree it's irrelevant, or I wouldn't have said it's irrelevant. Please don't ask me to reiterate things I've already said. I know the things I've already said. In fact, I'm the one who said them. And as I said before, I don't think you're scum because of anything Darox said, I think you're scum because of things YOU'VE said. So stop trying to link my case and Darox's, because they aren't one and the same. And you shouldn't pretend that they are.

Yes, certain things look scum-motivated. Why is it so hard for YOU to admit that some of YOUR behavior "looked scum-motivated?"

Irresponsibility? If you were town, why did you call RBT and I scum-buddies with such "irresponsibility." I don't think it's irresponsible to do so--- simply a statement of opinion. But since you think it's irresponsible, explain why you acted "irresponsibly" towards RBT.

Of course you're not suspicious for changing your mind about RBT. I never accused you of changing your mind about him, I've postulated all day that you knew his alignment from the start.

[kuribo]

Also, why is it "irresponsible" for me to do to you what you did to RBT?

[populartajo]

Accusing you of something you also did? Sure, but since you decided to use it to launch attacks against me, my point is that painting me as scum for doing it as well was in error. Or a calculated manipulation. This is a perfect example of why I choose not to seek out someone's scum partners until his/her alignment is known.

Kuribo, you did the same thing. We all make mad bad reads, bad assumptions. We both learned our lesson. But you cant accuse me of something you did as well if you are town.

As for Darox's vote, his reasons are his own. I've outlined MY case against you.

Im asking for an opinion of his case against me. Am I you and me the only players here? Or Darox cant be scum?

So stop trying to link my case and Darox's, because they aren't one and the same. And you shouldn't pretend that they are.

Im not pretending anything. Im asking what do you think of his case if his attacks can be applied exactly to you.

Yes, certain things look scum-motivated. Why is it so hard for YOU to admit that some of YOUR behavior "looked scum-motivated?"

I am admitting some of my behaviour looks to you scum-motivated, thats the reason why you are attacking me, right?. Thats why Im trying to explain you my reasoning process and that even though there are things that look bad they had their protown motives at some time.

I don't think it's irresponsible to do so--- simply a statement of opinion. But since you think it's irresponsible, explain why you acted "irresponsibly" towards RBT.

Bad read that I corrected late. Bad assumptions that I should never make again until alignment is revealed. And the most important thing, it wasnt Lylo.

Of course you're not suspicious for changing your mind about RBT. I never accused you of changing your mind about him, I've postulated all day that you knew his alignment from the start

.
So, am I scum or town? With what degree of certainty?

[populartajo]

EBWOP
*"Am I" should read "Are we"

[hasdgfas]

[quote="tajo"]You are free to change your mind but you must explain why did you change it.[/quote
No. Why do you say that?

[hasdgfas]

EBWOP:

Epic fail with quote tags

You are free to change your mind but you must explain why did you change it.

No. Why do you say that?

[populartajo]

EBWOP:

Epic fail with quote tags

You are free to change your mind but you must explain why did you change it.

No. Why do you say that?

Because it would be easy to understand why you thought something that at first glance doesnt look good/clear.

[hasdgfas]

EBWOP:

Epic fail with quote tags

You are free to change your mind but you must explain why did you change it.

No. Why do you say that?

Because it would be easy to understand why you thought something that at first glance doesnt look good/clear.

what does that mean?

[Darox]

Since I was so kind to show all the stuff I had on you, perhaps you may be inclined to do the same, because I can see nothing that I haven't already disproven.

Hiiiiiiiiii.

Hi, Darox.
Read, your case on me is the worst case Ive experienced in my whole time here.
Dont quote things. A 5 years old boy can do it. I want a case, one-two lignes. I already assumed your only case is this "Tajo singled out himself with kuribo and he thought he was scum, therefore he must be scum" fiasco. You said this isnt the case. I look again but I dont find anything. THEN I DONT SEE WHATS THE CASE ON ME.
I dont know if this even merits a vote in Lylo.

Are you being deliberately dense or something?

Allow me to restate it, in EXTRA BOLD FONT.

First, let's start with my feelings that your behaviour is suspicious as well as the quoted posts that made me react as such.

Ofc I am paying attention to the f..n' game "hurr hurr kuribo wtf are you doing?" Do you have any idea why RBT doesnt think you and me arent scum even though you have voted for him almost a month now?
The same question goes to RBT.
And to all the other readers, I dont know why I feel kuribo is sure RBT is going to come up scum. Or am I going crazy?
In other news, Darox needs to post.

Did you just accuse yourself and kuribo of being RBT's scumbuddies trying to buss him?

Come on, really?

When did we and has become confirmed lazy townies?
Yeah, scum one down.
Kuribo, any comments on the death of your scumparnter?

Just called Kuribo RBT's scum partner.

Ofc I am paying attention to the f..n' game "hurr hurr kuribo wtf are you doing?" Do you have any idea why RBT doesnt think you and me arent scum even though you have voted for him almost a month now?

Implies that the reason RBT hasn't voted for kuribo despite kuribo voting for him is because of scum buddery. Also groups Kuribo with yourself.

So yeah, I found my man.

Vote: Populartajo

For now,

Vote: Darox

Still thinking kuribo is the best lynch. Depending on RBT's and Darox's next post Ill decide my lynch for the day.

It's a shame I'm already voting you, because otherwise I would vote you for this.

Kuribo is your top suspect and you feel he is likely scum, but you're going to vote for someone you consider to be 'unhelpful' over him?

What's the matter, get cold feet and decide to stop the bus? Can you please explain to me why you suddenly don't consider Kuribo, your top suspect, worthy of lynching?

RBT, thoughts of Darox and his last post.
I will answer it tomorrow.

I think you should respond to it first rather than evading it and getting others to sound it out beforehand.

What exactly are you accusing me of?
Why the hell cant I think that RBT can be scumpartner with kuribo, specially taking into account that both were my top suspects for some time?
Do you AT LEAST understand my train of thought?
RBT excluded myself and kuribo and said that retro and has needed to die when ALL FOUR were doing basically the same thing: suspecting him hard.

I know I am town, then WHY CANT I THINK RBT EXCLUDED KURIBO for some idiotic reason, especially the one where they could be scumpartners?

What are your thoughts of RBT? Stop evading THAT QUESTION.

That right there.
"I know I'm town, so kuribo who is in the exact same position MUST BE SCUM!"

Ofc it would be idiotic to make an argument based on my only knowledge of my town condition.
Im only explaining Darox what was my process of thinking for that prob acenario.

No, your making an argument ignoring this, which is just as bad.

Do you see these? These responses of mine where I find your behaviour suspicious? Yes? Good.

Now, lets have a look at the posts where I summarize these into a case.

I said I wanted kuribo lynched. I still do.

Thats why Id prefer Kuribo. Im going to make a post rereading him soon.

Oh really? Then why, pray tell, are you not voting for him?

Now, you, I didnt like how you only posted as soon as I asked for you to post. Also I didnt like your reaction to my reasoning some pages ago. What was that, Darox?

Got to love this distortion. You didn't ask me to post recently. As for your previous 'reasoning', you had posted why you suspected kuribo to be RBT's scum partner, but in the process of this you included yourself with kuribo, effectively implying that everything you said for kuribo being RBT's scum partner was also true for you. Now you may be thinking "Why is that scummy", well, I'll tell you. By grouping himself with kuribo tajo sets himself up to have a weak argument presented against himself. "Hang on, RBT hasn't attacked you either! You must be RBT's real scum partner and trying to implicate kuribo!" This argument (As well as his initial reasoning for why kuribo could be RBT's scumparter) is fallacious and easy to disprove, and by dispelling such an argument he could make himself appear more townish than before, and also implies he didn't really believe in his words when he said kuribo was RBT's scumpartner.

No, TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS, DAMN.
RBT posted this:

Just so you all know, if you let the scum lynch me today, retro and has should be the first two to go after me.

He had four attackers: retro, has, kuribo and myself.
I singled kuribo and myself BECAUSE RBT EXCLUDED US, NOT ME.
All your posterior hypothesis and arguments based on your stupid theory dont make sense taking in count what I just said.
I have no idea why you keep pushing this even though Ive explained a hundred times.

I think kuribo is RBT's scumpartner. They are both my top suspects for a reason. Read my previous posts. The fact that RBT suspects has and retro and not me and kuribo, even though we all find him suspect, seems strange to me.

So you either pushed what you knew was a fallacious point against kuribo by calling him RBT's scum partner because it could easily be applied to yourself, but carefully ignoring that fact, or you were doing what I said you were doing here. Both of which are scum moves.

Can you see it? Here, I'll highlight it with EXTRA BOLD FONT like I promised.

As for your previous 'reasoning', you had posted why you suspected kuribo to be RBT's scum partner, but in the process of this you included yourself with kuribo, effectively implying that everything you said for kuribo being RBT's scum partner was also true for you. Now you may be thinking "Why is that scummy", well, I'll tell you. By grouping himself with kuribo tajo sets himself up to have a weak argument presented against himself. "Hang on, RBT hasn't attacked you either! You must be RBT's real scum partner and trying to implicate kuribo!" This argument (As well as his initial reasoning for why kuribo could be RBT's scumparter) is fallacious and easy to disprove, and by dispelling such an argument he could make himself appear more townish than before, and also implies he didn't really believe in his words when he said kuribo was RBT's scumpartner.

So you either pushed what you knew was a fallacious point against kuribo by calling him RBT's scum partner because it could easily be applied to yourself, but carefully ignoring that fact, or you were doing what I said you were doing here. Both of which are scum moves.

Can you read that? Do I need to further bold it?

Now, you might say "This is exactly what you posted last time."
Yes, yes it is. That is because I have had this case against you since yesterday, you have just been ignoring it and claiming that it does not exist. No matter how many times you claim I don't have a real case, this does not change the fact I have had it since day 3 and it is very real. In fact, you're very refusal to see what is right in front of you and being deliberately dense by saying I have not posted a case against you is a common scum method of trying to devalue a case without actually disputing the points of the case itself. So that's three cases I have against you now. Let's put them in a list. A nice, EXTRA BOLD FONT list so that you can't miss it.

1: Setting up weak arguments against yourself that you can easily quash to try and prevent real cases against you from forming
2: Pushing an argument against another player that you know is fallacious and incorrect.
3: Trying to discredit an argument by ignoring it rather than actually proving it false.

[Darox]

Im not pretending anything. Im asking what do you think of his case if his attacks can be applied exactly to you.

They can't, by the way, so I'd prefer it if you didn't try to further avoid the cases I've outlined against you by falsely claiming they also apply equally to kuribo.