Open 104 - The New C9 - Game Over

[hewitt]

Sarcasm well-named, it wasn't very funny.

Anyways okay someone help me get this straight. We've got our MSers and our 2p2 players, and now we have POGgers? WTF?

[Hitch]

Why do poggers kill atak there over other poggers? I mean Scott's here.

Why does this give me the impression that POGgers are xenophobic?

This should really have been adressed to matrix not me.

He asserted that the Fonz kill looked like MSer(s) had done it because he is known as a strong player to them. And that the atak kill looked like a strong player kill by people that knew he was a strong player (pogger(s)/2p2er(s)).

My post was questioning Matrix's logic, it had nothing to do with my opinion on the matter, well a little, but not in the way you describe.

[Hitch]

2p2ers=poggers

[Hitch]

OK, I just re-read all of atak's posts looking for the posts he may have been killed for by the mafia, aka peeks/investigations..
I know he didn't get any peeks/investigations but surely the mafis would be looking for them.

It took fucking ages, and I'm not looking forward to doing fonze

Since Scott isn't here, I'll help out:

If SH is seer, Siesta's a villager.

He's not really the seer though.

This is the most likely peek I can find.

I can't multi quote so I have to bring the rellevant posts here 1 at a time.

Not until we look at fonze can we draw any real conclusions, and I'm not sure if we can draw anything solid at all with the game format being what it is but we'll see.

My thoughts are that once we know a bit more about roles these posts may become more useful.

[Hitch]

This is quite a strong Mike peek.

I am glad to see that M1KE is a good guy.

As we're about to see though, he conflicts this a little in subsequent posts which I think is something we can get info from...

If there is a way to multiquote with this software, someone please tell me.

[Hitch]

I am glad to see that M1KE is a good guy.

I agree that he's villagery so far but for you to clear him already seems wolfy to me.

You misunderstand, though I admit I left that door open. I am certainly not clearing him. But I think he's as likely to be town as anyone else who has posted.

[I was overstating it a little because I think I know what's coming, after his lock vote post. Just trying to derail that train before it gets chugging.]

Here, and the following post seems to reduce the chances his peek was mike.

[Hitch]

And this -

you came off REALLY bad in that 'retarted' conversation. I mean i dont think i've ver seen someone so mortally wounded by a single word before.

You sure about that Atak?

If I'm correct M1KE is Glossy Lips, so what makes GL 'good guy' looking as I don't see it?

Not sure, but sure enough for now. I have played with him a fair amount. This is his village game so far.

Meanwhile, I have no idea how the post you quoted supports the idea that I should not be calling him "good" -- he's stating what I think is a moderately obvious point, but discussion of which might lead us to a good lynch.

Now at this point in my re-read I was thinking that once we know a bit more about the scum team we can conclude some more about the weight of this evidence. I was thinking that the more experienced the scum team the more likely they would believe atak had peeked Siesta, the less experianced - the more likely they believe the peek is Mike.

I still think there is a little merit in this, but the more I think about it the less I like it.

Basically with night being 5 days long they would have had a chance to give a propper assesment of the thread, so I think this almost negates the possibility that they believed atak investigated Mike.

tl;dr, so far if atak was killed by the mafia, it looks like siesta is not mafia.

[Hitch]

BTW, the double question mark thing on matrix was wrong. Sorry.
He's still mafia though.

There is a bulk of posts that go after matrix very hard, within them it is possible to believe that this one could be seen as a peek.

I'm thinking that if matrix is scum, the small possibility of being investigated, coupled with atak going hard after matrix for 1/2 of D1 might lead to scum NKing atak.

This is as read. I will concede that atak backed off matrix a little and seemed to make it clear (to me at least) that he couldn't have peeked matrix later in the day, but scum tend to lend more credibility to evil peeks than good ones in my humble opinion. So while the same logic applys here as to the Mike peek, it is less strong due to evil's tendancy's.

tl;dr siesta=town still most likely (85%) peek atak was killed for, if killed by mafia.
matrix=wolf second most likely (10%) peek atak was killed for, if killed by mafia.
Mike=town least likely (5%) peek atak was killed for, if killed by mafia.

[Hitch]

btw
im teh seer
hewitt is not mafia
just kidding, im not teh seer

I already did this for you, and I think you got it wrong.

More evidence of siesta being the most likely peek, if atak was killed by mafia

[Hitch]

read deeper into that thread and you will note that I am very very anti fake claiming anything. One quote taken out of context = more to the gossamer illusion side of argument imo = Atak = Mafia than Town atak looking hard for solid reasons to vote to lynch someone.

In other news m1ke is likely a Mafia Goon.

Atak, let us set aside our squabble for the moment, whom else do you believe in this Town is acting Scummy?

Once I turn up Town tomorrow who will you be pushing for then?

I do see that you are anti-fake claim (and to anyone who doesn't want to read those threads: he is). It is more that you focused on this one without admitting of other possibilities. You don't always do that.

Who else is scummy? I have a hard time reading the locals, because their reactions reflect a different approach. Stef, for example, was ridiculously defensive, but it didn't feel like a necessarily scummy reaction.

M1KE is a villager imo. Again, may be wrong, but I'm comfortable with it for now.

Z's response to the fighting he started was villagery at first, but it was wolfscummy of him to slip away rather than keep drawing fire, as I expected him to do.

Sun linked to a couple of his wolf games. You should read the second one. It's too earlier to tell, but there's at least some indication he's scum here -- less carefree than village sun. (To be fair, it was over the top obvious in the games he linked to, and isn't here.)

As is this.

I include this post as a summary to the fact that iirc, atak NEVER mentioned siesta apart from the first post I quoted. More points to siesta being the peek he got killed for if killed by the mafia.

[Hitch]

OK, so conclusions -

If atak was killed by the mafia, siesta should be clear.

Now I'll do fonz and see what we get.

After, if I get time I'll look at the wagons, we can see who was moving with the tides of the two confirmed villagers that recieved many votes D1.

[Hitch]

ok, so I'm not reading fonze.

There is 3 freakin' pages.

I'll do it tomorrow maybe.

[Hitch]

Strawman, atak. I did my damnedest, not to make it us vs them, and Scott just continued with the moronic arguments and personal abuse. WHICH MAKES ME FUCKING ENRAGED. Sorry if i can't be civil to a person who has demonstrated himself to not only be a bad mafia player but a truly awful human being.

Fonz: Scott is difficult, and he's being more difficult than usual. Your reaction is understandable... but it's also anti-town. As long as Scott is playing in this game (and he is), keeping dialog with him as civil as possible is best for the cause, whether he does his part or not. (Also, he has by no means demonstrated himself to be a bad player -- you're just not seeing yet, nor having an open mind to, what he can do.

He is without question the most skilled of the POGgers now playing,

and your failure to accept that this may be true and that behind the regrettable tirades is the ability, which can be teased out, to break the game open, is disappointing.)

Adults are civil even to those they see as children. Good mafia players are civil even to those they think are bad, if being so would help the cause. So if you could please stop being "FUCKING ENRAGED", the town would appreciate it.

-----------------
Scott: Cut it out. Play mafia. If you really want to demonstrate your superiority, break the game (or own as mafia), and

then

laugh about how pathetic you think MSers are. Meanwhile, chill with the name calling. At this point everyone knows how you feel; your insistence on saying it is making it difficult for people to hear the signal through the static.

In my recent points about mwtrix, if you can't trust me, trust a dead confirmed townie.

[Hitch]

People are Xenophobic, it's part of human nature, which is in turn hammered in to people via the medium of banal television, but I digress...

It's "standard" strategy whether one is a Mafioso or a SK to kill off the better players remaining in the game n1.

POGgers would be well aware of Atak's credentials - likewise MSers for Fonz. If Fonz was a Mafia hit - they just got plain old dumb lucky.

As far as Atak being dead over other players - pass.

Why is half of this town, some of whom were lamenting the slowness of the game - who hinted day one that they would be more participatory day 2 - still keeping schtum????

Oh no you don't.

You chose not to pass when you drew conclusions about the possible makeup of the sk/mafia team.

You concluded that 2p2ers would more likely kill atak because he is known as a strong player. imo the kills indicate almost the oppisite. Namely that if the poggers were making a strong player kill atak would still be alive.

[ScottHoward]

hitch, i think its a little too early to figure out what youre trying to figure out.

[ScottHoward]

btw,
im teh cop
mada is town
just kidding, im not teh cop

[StrangerCoug]

Damn you Hitch and your 13 consecutive posts.

Why do poggers kill atak there over other poggers? I mean Scott's here.

Why does this give me the impression that POGgers are xenophobic?

This should really have been adressed to matrix not me.

It was an open question not directed to anybody in particular.

I can't multi quote so I have to bring the rellevant posts here 1 at a time.

You could also learn how to copy and paste what you see when you click the quote button...

btw,
im teh cop
mada is town
just kidding, im not teh cop

Should I trust claims by POGgers anymore?

[matrix]

Oh no you don't.

You chose not to pass when you drew conclusions about the possible makeup of the sk/mafia team.

You concluded that 2p2ers would more likely kill atak because he is known as a strong player. imo the kills indicate almost the oppisite. Namely that if the poggers were making a strong player kill atak would still be alive.

meh.

Atak is a strong player - it's 6 of one half a dozen of the other as to whomever killed Atak thought he was a stronger player than a n other (Scott for example) thats *IF* Atak was a stong player kill - I think it's likely it was - you think it's likely it wasn't.

We are at an impasse either way cos whatever conclusions you draw from the night kills being possible Cop hunts they are reversed half the time cos we have no idea who killed who, it's yet possible that the vig shot last night as well if there even is one and their kill was blocked by a possible Doc (or the Dens kill/SK kill was the one that got blocked)

We are in a world of darkness. The two most vocal MS regs have shuffled off this mortal coil, and none of the remaining MSers seem willing or able to put together several posts of analysis of yesterday.

I got the impression from my back and forth with Fonz yesterday that TCS was his investigation.

I will go reread d1 in a day or so and look more carefully at his posts, since we ought to be able to discern a few possible investigations that he might have conducted that would narrow the choices a little for today.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Well, I'm dead probably.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

You'll get more from me today. Just not TODAY. Time to party.

[darkdude]

Hm...

Sorry, but activity is way too low. I shall therefore impose an ad hoc rule:

Deadline in 7 days.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

This game makes so little sense... ridiculous activity followed by mind-numbing boredom.

[StrangerCoug]

Well, my scumdar is still shot. The POGgers make me paranoid, but they can't all be Mafia.

[hewitt]

I...really don't know what to say. I don't even know what to think really.

[Hitch]

tcs, coug, hewitt and others.

I'd like to see a list of all the players i the game, followed by a few words containing your thoughts on each please.

In fact that goes to everyone.

matrix