[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Korts]

I can't think of a name for this setup that is both amusing and inoffensive Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Godfather/Treacherous Lover
2 Lover Cops
1 Lover Cop in love with Godfather
n Townies

Night Start

Nominate

Seconded.

[Korts]

swingy, powerrole heavy madness with bizzare massclaim results:

Gun Show Mafia

50% Chance of setup being:

1 Godfather (can kill with a gun, immune to cop investigation)
1 Mafia Goon (can kill with a gun)
1 Mac the Knife (mafia, can kill with his knife)
1 SK (can kill with a gun or a knife, immune to cop investigation, immune to NK)
1 Gun Collector
1 Cop (confirmed sane, has a gun, investigates mafia)
1 Gunsmith (also has a gun and doesn't use it)
1 Miller
4 Townies

day start

50% Chance of setup being:

1 Godfather (mafia A, can kill with a gun, immune to cop investigation)
1 Mafia Goon (mafia A, can kill with a gun)
1 Mac the Knife (mafia A, can kill with his knife)
1 Godfather (mafia B, can kill with a gun, immune to cop investigation)
1 Mafia Goon (mafia B, can kill with a gun)
1 Mac the Knife (mafia B, can kill with his knife)
2 Gunsmiths (has a gun, doesn't use it)
4 Townies

day start

edit: fixed by shaft.ed's suggestion in the next post.

nominate Gun Show Mafia

[Korts]

nominate vengeful

I liked it last time.

[Korts]

I think he means more like this:

Spies Cannot Kill

1 British Spy (can recruit night 1,4,7,10 etc.)
1 French Spy (can recruit night 2,5,8,11 etc.)
1 Russian Spy (can recruit night 3,6,9,12 etc.)
1 Italian Spy (can recruit night 2,5,8,11 etc.)
1 German Spy (can recruit night 3,6,9,12 etc.)
1 Axis Cop (can detect, Italy and Germany)
1 Allies Cop (Can detect, Britain, Russia and France)
2 Pro-Town Roleblocker
5 Vigilantes (can have a nightkill every other night starting night 2)
7 Townies

If 2 sets of spies recruit the same person the said spy becomes a "double agent" and if a Head Spy selects, instead of a recruit, they can flush out double agents, these double agents die.

If the Head Spy dies the Spy agency disbands, all double agents die, and all single agents return to Vanilla. The Cops can only find the leaders.

Doesn't that seem unbalanced in favor of town?

[Korts]

can vigs be recruited? though I'm guessing not.

this would be an interesting setup to try.

[Korts]

Thinking of that setup made me think of this:

3 Mafia Goons
3 Citizens
3 Townies
3 Villagers

It's 3:9, but it's a lot harder for scum to claim.

I don't know the numbers, but I'm wary of a 3:9 mountainous.

[Korts]

Why not change it so if you get modkilled, you instantly win(which, correct me if I'm wrong, the objective in loser mafia is to get your team to lose).

No, since players' factions losing is part of their

win

condition, the players themselves winning wouldn't be a punishment. and punishing a whole faction for a modkill is also bad.

[Korts]

How I learned to Love the Bomb

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia/Lover

1 Lover with Mafia
1 Bomb/Lover
1 Lover with Bomb
6 Vanilla

Bomb win condition is with the town; explodes both upon lynch (kills hammer) and NK (kills the killer).

[Korts]

About hangman. I'd think 4 vanillas is enough. The lynchers shouldn't know each other.

Seems messy. Something about it makes me feel it isn't quiet balanced.

Day Two+, game turns to a 6/1 mountainous setup.

Fair enough, I spent the better part of five minutes thinking about it. My main goal was to make a Dr. Strangelove reference.

[Korts]

What's the godmother's alignment? Also, is the role public?

[Korts]

@Max: So the setup is basically not much more than a 9:3 mountainous with someone who decides on deadline lynches?

@farside: the mafia lover was an added afterthought, I just didn't want only one lover pair, because that would make them effectively a mason group. Possibly a third mafia goon and one or two less townies could balance it out? Like this:

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Lover

1 Lover with mafia
1 Lover Bomb
1 Lover with Bomb
4 Vanillas

Which makes me think. It'd be nice to have four casualties in one night by having the mafia lover target the lover/bomb.

[Korts]

No, they don't know. Obviously, the mafia lover would claim to be the bomb.

[Korts]

Friends and Enemies and Enemies and That Other Guy

2 Mafia
2 Werewolves
2 Masons
1 Backup Mason (becomes mason upon death of either mason, isn't informed of being backup, i.e. initially gets a vanilla PM)
5 Vanilla Townies

[Korts]

I seem to remember something very much like "I can't think of a name" being proposed a couple pages back. I think maybe it was Adel who posted it.

EDIT: found it,

¹⁴

C

2 vanilla scum (50% chance of being mafia, 50% chance of being werewolves)
1 Cop (detects mafia)
1 Seer (detects werewolves)
3 Townies

Day start

EDIT no. 2: Although the similarity isn't as striking as my memory had it.

[Korts]

nominate Two of Four (a9)

That was one open I really enjoyed.

2 Mafia
5 Townies
2 Power Roles (Cop/Doc/RB/Miller, without duplication)

[Korts]

I feel proud

[Korts]

Four kills and eight protects. You could give one of the mafia a double bullet kill, meaning it would take two docs to protect, or you could make it so two docs protecting a player causes an overdose and the target dies.

That'd just give free vig-kills to the town.

EDIT: meaning, of course, the double doc protect causing an overdose.

[Korts]

It should be two, I think. If a goon's lynched, the PGO's can claim and the game's broken because a) if there's more than three PGO's claimed, there's definite scum among them, and b) if only three PGO's claim, the town can only lose if they lynch all 5 vanillas before they lynch mafia.

[Korts]

There's Four Jacks in Every Deck

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Jack-of-All-Trades (one shot each of kill, roleblock, alignment invert (can target self))
1 Neutral Jack-of-All-Trades (one shot each of kill, roleblock, alignment invert (can target self); unlimited NK-immune) i.e. SK
2 Pro-Town Jack-of-All-Trades (one shot each of protect, investigate, roleblock)
4 Vanilla Townies

[Korts]

Impotence Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Roleblocker
2 Compulsive Blank Vigs (their kills never go through; they shoot blanks)
1 Compulsive Vig
1 Pro-Town Roleblocker
5 Vanilla Townies

[Korts]

No. That would defeat the point.

[Korts]

yes, the macho C and unL Doc know that they are.

Then what's to stop the cop claiming straight away and getting protection from the doc? And even if the doc ends up having to claim, he can get protection from the unlicensed doc.

Mafia counterclaiming stops the cop from claiming off the bat, pretty much the same as any other circumstance. Also, the unlicensed doc is a bit of an ambiguous role because from the miller POV it makes a lot of sense to claim as early as they can, while from the doc POV claiming is an inherently negative thing.

[Korts]

Nurse Mafia

3 Mafia Doctors
1 SK
1 Vig
7 Nurses (Mod randomizes order of replacement prior to game start)

I can't even begin to comprehend how this should be balanced. You're probably right and these numbers are okay, but it bugs me that I don't have the faintest idea.

By the way,

nominate

[Korts]

Make it two doctors and one goon, then. That way there won't be a circle-protect.

[Korts]

The mafia doc/mafia cop combo is pretty much the same as a pair of goons in the first possible setup. I'm guessing it's just for flavor reasons they'd have rolenames?

[Korts]

Optimal strategy: DM claims D1, policy lynch. Alternatively, policy vig.

Seriously, the Death Miller is a role that shouldn't ever be in a game.

[Korts]

It wasn't bad, but since the DM can't be revealed to be telling the truth until post-game reveals, this role is always off best policy lynched.

[Korts]

Counterclaim doesn't benefit scum

or

town, I think.

[Korts]

Priorities

3 Mafia Goons

1 Bodyguard
1 Precious Townie
1 Death Miller Jack-of-All-Trades (kill, investivateX2, roleblock)
4 Vanilla Townies

Perhaps favoring town a bit?

Scratch that, it looks tilted more to scum.

[Korts]

I don't like the idea of the DM having any kind of power... I think there's too much potential for confusion if someone fakeclaims results and then gets lynched as "a mafia goon". It's enough to mostly destroy the usefulness of any info powers in the first place. The primary thing in my mind is that town needs extra info to balance out the DM.

The concept was to give incentive to the DM not to claim immediately. Giving them useful powers is a perfectly good way imo and compensates both the town and the player in a sense for the Death Miller aspect.

And yeah, the Precious Townie messed with my read of the balance; I considered it a power role at first, but of course they actually hurt the town. Reducing the goons to two might work (2 Goons, 1 Bodyguard, 1 Precious Townie, 1 DM/JoAT, 4 Vanilla).

And the DM definitely needs to know they're a DM. Otherwise it ruins any fun there may have been had from the role.

[Korts]

I dunno, it just feels... unnecessarily evil. I mean, they can't be proven right until after the game's been resolved.

[Korts]

To be clear, Flay, I'm against Death Millers too. I just think giving the role confirmable powers makes it slightly more acceptable.

[Korts]

To be clear, Flay, I'm against Death Millers too. I just think giving the role confirmable powers makes it slightly more acceptable.

By confirmable powers you mean self killing ability?

Or killing a player designated by the town. But yeah, shooting themselves would work better.

[Korts]

(Both mimes must die by lynching in order for the Mime Goons to win -- they share a NK)

I don't know if I understand. They are Jester Masons with a NK?

[Korts]

Make them lovers, then.

[Korts]

BlakAdder: On a quick scan, nothing springs to mind as a particular problem. Seems balanced.

Also, found this while reading back in MD.

Possible Setup requiring name:

25% chance
2 scum 5 town
25% chance
2 scum, 1 miller, 4 town
15% chance
2 scum, 1 one-shot daycop, 4 town
35% chance
2 scum, 1 one-shot daycop, 1 miller, 3 town

Nightless, when the first scum is lynched they get a 'vengeful' kill.

nominate Possible Setup Requiring Name

[Korts]

Do they still share a NK in the revised version?

[Korts]

okay.

nominate

then, it's a good setup.

[Korts]

Bang Bang Boom Mafia

2 Mafia; group abilities: kill, roleblock, protect; may use two of three group abilities on any given night

2 Bombs (killer dies if they are NK'd; this is a passive ability and cannot be blocked)
2 Vengeful Townies (get a vengeful kill if they are lynched)
2 Vigilantes
3 Vanilla Townies

Night start

[Korts]

While in the shower, I had a more thorough think about Bang Bang Boom.

Both the Mafia Doctor and the RB can perform only one of the kill and their night actions while both are alive; if one of them dies, the other can perform both actions. Basically they have the choice of protecting vs. blocking while both of them are alive.

I also think maybe the Doctor should be able to self-protect in this setup.

[Korts]

could you make the RB and Doc protect team abilities, and the scum team can only commit two actions per night (choice of NK, RB, or Doc) regardless of who is still alive? That would make it a little less swingy, and with the doc self protect, make the scum team a little bit more resilient. I think it would make for an interesting game where the scum team may choose NOT to commit nks on some nights.

This is a good idea, and consistent with the whole concept of the setup. Editing the setup.

[Korts]

You have a point with the vengeful kill; but protecting themselves against a directed vengeful kill would defeat the whole purpose of the vengeful townies, since giving the scum protection against their kill takes the edge of town gained by the "double lynch". The vengeful townie is a double-edged role anyway, and can help scum just as much as hurt them.

Day 1 massclaim doesn't break the setup, IMO. One scum can fakeclaim bomb, while the other claims vengeful; the vigs likely wouldn't target claimed bombs, and taking out a vengeful townie also hurts town by taking a vengeful kill away, so they wouldn't target vengeful townies either, or else very reluctantly. Massclaim only helps scum very likely; it outs the powers that be, while, with the above tactic, gives vigs a 2/3 possibility of hitting town PRs. Even if both vigs shoot claimed vengeful townies, the fake bomb will definitely survive and the vigs will risk four town deaths in a night not counting a mafia NK if they both decide to shoot that night.

Short answer: no, I don't think massclaim ruins the game; it makes for a much more puzzle-like game, but scum still will have a fair chance.

[Korts]

The topic's cults.