Mini 699: Insane Asylum Mafia: Game Over

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Farside's 1397 is interesting and I agree with Mirth's 1398.

Dont know how that get erased.

[farside22]

Farside, why do you think so only now?

I forgot about crazy's soft claim and haven't had a chance to reread yet. I have gotten very busy lately.
When Kor brought up the case on crazy I recalled Crazy's soft claim in reaction to PT's claim. Now Crazy is claiming theif which has nothing in my book to do with the miller claim in any way. What does theif have to do with miller?

[populartajo]

Farside, why do you think so only now?

I forgot about crazy's soft claim and haven't had a chance to reread yet. I have gotten very busy lately.
When Kor brought up the case on crazy I recalled Crazy's soft claim in reaction to PT's claim. Now Crazy is claiming theif which has nothing in my book to do with the miller claim in any way. What does theif have to do with miller?

When did Crazy claim miller?

[farside22]

Well, farside's 1397 is. Farside you may as well answer the questions I posed to you.

I'm sorry I'm really am busy can you give me the post number to your questions.

[farside22]

@tajo: I have this:

2 claims means someone is likely lying.

3 (or 4, *cough*) claims means mod's a bastard.

And this:

Whoops, didn't catch up like I thought I would... here are my notes from the first 10 pages. I thought I'd better post them

just to prove that I do have

something

. I don't really have much to do tomorrow, so I should be able to catch up

with the rest then.

Warning: The following post likely contains a lot of what you might consider "WIFOM." What I say: Nothing is

WIFOM unless if you're talking about night actions or something similar.

#1 - Miller debate

-

Tajo is very likely to be town.

I'm not a miller, but I'll just say that the flavor that Tajo mentioned is

really

close to my role PM. (It's best I don't claim now, trust me)
*

One looked like an attempt to soft claim. The second time he says he isnt' a miller but has is really close to your role PM. As I stated what does miller have to do with a theif?

[forbiddanlight]

The Twenty Eighth "No seriously, I really am" Vote Count

"I don't have to listen to you! You're just the illusion of a phantom of a hallucination I had!"

Mod Note: Rule 7 states that if you send NO night action in, you will do one with a randomized target. If you were to send in "I target no one" or some variant, that counts as a night action. Just figured I'd clarify.

farside22 (0)
Crazy (3): StrangerCoug, Korlash, farside
StrangerCoug (1):
ShadowGirl (0)
Korlash (0)
Mirth (0)
Corvuus (0)
Populartajo (0):
No Lynch (2): Populartajo, Crazy

Not Voting (3): ShadowGirl, Mirth, Corvuus

Crazy is at L-2

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch
Deadline is at 10 AM EST, Tuesday, January 20th, 2009

[Corvuus]

This is beginning to get to be too much walls of post and such. maybe we should tone it down and stuff.

At any rate, I noticed we had 8 when I talked about the 'it can't be lylo due to haiku rule' and such and I had already decided then that I was completely against "vote no lynch" and so I didn't bring it up.

I think we should 'drop' the no lynch vote topic for now. Give it a few real life days of talking about other issues and if people think we do not have enough information, etc. etc. to make a decisive decision today, then "no lynch" is "possible".

Arguing for a no lynch vote "now" will not work. we have a full week to figure things out and I couldn't careless the points brought out since I don't believe them and we are going to 'agree to disagree'.

-----------

The main issue for me is that the cops are confirmed and there are 3 scum. So people have picked their '3 scum-team' aside from the cops and right now the main power of the cops is 1. we're confirmed. 2. we are NK resistance.

Our sanity/investigation is questionable and I do NOT want to rely on it.

Tajo, your 3 scum-team pick was SC, Mirth, Farside. I investigated SC as innocent, Kor got mirth as guilty. So if you believe we are sane/insane respectively, then they can't be team scum. If you don't believe the cops sanity (naive/paranoid respectively or variation thereof) then Cop investigations from having another day means 'nothing' and we will be stuck.

If you argue that they are GF or something like that, then that calls YOUR role into question since you explicitly state that "town has something to balance out my horrible death miller role".

What does town have that is so utterly overpowering? a * * doc, 2 cops with questionable sanity but NK resistance... and then "3" millers AND scum have godfather who is immune to cop investigation?

So far, the 'town' claims have been consistent where we each had a 'weakness' per se. Kor was sane in speech but is probably insane, I was insane in speech but most likely sane in investigation, Mirth has a 'weakness'. Miller has a weakness.

What is Crazy's weakness? kleptomania so he *has* to steal? his ability *always* works and he *always* roleblocks and has no other problems, is there any downside or 'nerf' to him but rather just him as a unlikely overpowered role? Not only does he "RB" he also "role steals" due to revealing his items on his death. Why both?

ugh it bothers me so much.

........

ok. Step back.

Crazy:

It absolutely does not have any weakness or 'fail' type in your role at all?

Does your ability steal the role of the other person while you have their item? i.e. if they turned up dead, they don't have the item so we investigate their 'burned body' and find 'nothing' so think they are Vanilla Townie AND if you died, then you would turn up as them?

You take an item and hold on to it from Early Night (before all other night actions) all the way until next early night?

Why did you choose Farside to block? I know you said middle of scum list but then, what is your scum list back then?

Corvuus

[StrangerCoug]

Damn post explosion >< I had to find where I left off.

Okay.
Coug and farside, do you have an item in your vanilla roles?

No.

I'll admit it was bad, however I'm sure you can see that it would make absolutely

no

sense to crumb miller when 3 people had already fully claimed miller. As either scum or town,

why would I?

This is a big fat WIFOM.

And nobody has any issue with the actual Day 1 soft-claim, right? That all fits in with what I said. I'll just admit that the "crumb" was poorly worded, and I really wasn't expecting anyone to notice it. (Yes, I've never breadcrumbed before in a game.)

As a rule, I pay attention to *cough, cough* coughing online. *cough*

The fact that you atually call it a breadcrumb when it clearly isn't is interesting. How exactly is saying there are 4 millers a breadcrumbt that he isn't a miller? Also, seeing as how you are scum also, another cum trying to confirm you isn't all that hard to believe.

I wasn't breadcrumbing that I was "not a miller;" I was breadcrumbing that I was "similar to a miller." If I was a miller, I'd say something like:

"This is insane, because I'm also a miller."

The way that I was indirect shows that I was

not

trying to breadcrumb miller.

Stop backtracking. Your breadcrumb explicitly mentioned there being four millers, and three had claimed already. The most likely way for you to know a fourth miller existed for you to actually be the fourth miller.

You said "everyone thinks farside is scum" that is false. As far as I go, it is PoE. From Corv's last post I assume it's PoE for him as well. I don't care if YOU have a case or not, "EVERYONE" doesn't.

Well, actually I can see that, since both sides of this debate seem to have farside as the last scum by Process of Elimination, right? Why do we have to pick between sides when we share some common ground.

It seems farfetched for scum to claim to come up to cops as guilty and will flip guilty if lynched?

When 2 other people claim millers after him,

yes, yes, yes.

I've found lately that asking why players are still alive is a scum tell. FoS: populartajo.

LOLZ, didn't you ask why Mirth and me were still alive earlier? And making up fake scumtells is a scum-tell. (Except when I did it in Open 86. )

You can't exactly make up a "fake" scumtell if you remember doing what you're calling a scumtell more often as scum than town. I'll keep it to that to stay out of trouble with ongoings.

Forget the breadcrumb.

NO!

This is a false dillema. If we lynch somebody other than Crazy—that includes you—and he or she turns out to be scum, the game continues.

If Tajo is scum, I am too. So really, there's no benefit to lynching Tajo instead of me. RIGHT?

While I believe you to be scum and that a connection between you and populartajo exists, that's not what I'm saying here. I'm saying that other options exist besides lynching you and going for a no lynch.

[Mirth]

Farside, this discussion of Crazy's crap claim has been going on for pages. Why vote now?

And I agree with Corv that we should, for the time being, hold off discussing lynching or nolynching.

BTW we can rule a few scum teams of 3 based on the facts that this day is still ongoing, despite the fact that a lynch has been possible for some time (not individuals, mind you, just certain combinations) I'll get to those when I take care of my bastard game.

[farside22]

Farside, this discussion of Crazy's crap claim has been going on for pages. Why vote now?
.

Busy trying to catch up.

[Mirth]

Okay, so, the following scum combinations can be ruled out based on opportunity to hammer. (Because scum can pretty much be guaranteed a kill if they dont go after the cops)

Since I posted a votecount in 1314, the following groups could have ended the game:
Corv, Mirth, Kor (on SC)
SG, Corv, Kor (on SC)
SG, Corv, Mirth (on either Crazy or SC)
SG, Mirth, Kor (on Crazy)
SG, Tajo, Mirth (on Crazy)
SG, Tajo, Corv (on Crazy)
Farside, SG, Mirth (on Crazy)
Farside, SG, Tajo (on Crazy)
Farside, SG, Corv (on Crazy)
Farside, Tajo, Mirth (on Crazy)
Farside, Tajo, Corv (on Crazy)
Farside, Mirth, Corv (on Crazy)

And that rules out 12 possibilities. Since I believe with 8 alive there are 56 possibilities probalistically, there are 44 left. Not that it helps any.

[Korlash]

BTW we can rule a few scum teams of 3 based on the facts that this day is still ongoing, despite the fact that a lynch has been possible for some time (not individuals, mind you, just certain combinations) I'll get to those when I take care of my bastard game.

Theres no need. The list is rather small and can be summed up in the phrase "One of Me, Coug, or Crazy has to be scum" meaning any three paty scum tam that does not include at least one of us is nixed. In addition, any scum team that includes me must also include Corv under the basis that I did not use my counterclaim as a way to get him lynched.

So you can make a list of impossible scum teams but i think it's more helpful and quicke to just say what I just did.

Prove there are 2 NKs and prove how the evidences in this game point to that happening. NAO. All points to just being 1 NK. Flavor, night actions and killing methods.

I don't need to prove anything becuase I am town. It is impossible for me to prove anything. The fact you seem to have a trifling NEED to prove something only helps further the fact you are scum. This close to winning you feel the NEED to be trusted and the NEED to be right. There are no listed killing methods meaning it CANT prove anything one way or the other. Flavor is flavor and never PROVES anything. And as far as Night actions go you have none, so you can't prove anything off of them anyways.

(pardon the caps lock, I'm suffering from lack of being able to do that and need to fill the urge )

How the hell can we lose a cop if you and Corv have NK resistance?

I've been saying this for the last 5 or so pages, if you don't know I'm not telling. I will not tell the scum how they can take out a cop tonight no sweat just becuase you're too dumb to figure it out yourself. Drop it. You want to be right, fine. we can't lose a cop. Happy now? If you ever bring the subject up again you are willing endangering the life of me and Corv and I will see you hang for it.

Im obv not reaching. You are. Compare your evidences (2 NKS, are there any?) to mine (1 NK)

Neither one of us has any evidence.

What happens if you or Corv find scum tomorrow or you investigate Crazy and he comes up as town?

And what happens if we lynch Crazy today and he is mafia RBer? What if his lynch not only prevents a cop death but the fact he is gone it means BOTH cops get an investigation? You can hypothesis about the glories and riches a no lynch might bring and I can do the same about what a lynch might bring. All we do is go in circles.

[Mirth]

BTW we can rule a few scum teams of 3 based on the facts that this day is still ongoing, despite the fact that a lynch has been possible for some time (not individuals, mind you, just certain combinations) I'll get to those when I take care of my bastard game.

Theres no need. The list is rather small and can be summed up in the phrase "One of Me, Coug, or Crazy has to be scum" meaning any three paty scum tam that does not include at least one of us is nixed. In addition, any scum team that includes me must also include Corv under the basis that I did not use my counterclaim as a way to get him lynched.

So you can make a list of impossible scum teams but i think it's more helpful and quicke to just say what I just did.

This is not necessarily true.

[populartajo]

Theres no need. The list is rather small and can be summed up in the phrase "One of Me, Coug, or Crazy has to be scum" meaning any three paty scum tam that does not include at least one of us is nixed. In addition, any scum team that includes me must also include Corv under the basis that I did not use my counterclaim as a way to get him lynched.

So you can make a list of impossible scum teams but i think it's more helpful and quicke to just say what I just did.

What Mirth said. Crazy is now at L-2. Mirth can we update the list?

I don't need to prove anything becuase I am town. It is impossible for me to prove anything.

Okay. You cant prove anything at 100%. Just an an exercise, tell me what is the most probable thing of the following events?
a) We have 1 NK
b) We have 2 NK
I have evidence for only 1 NK. Its not categorical but its ok for practical assumptions. Do you have any evidence for 2 NKs?

The fact you seem to have a trifling NEED to prove something only helps further the fact you are scum. This close to winning you feel the NEED to be trusted and the NEED to be right.

How does this make sense?

There are no listed killing methods meaning it CANT prove anything one way or the other. Flavor is flavor and never PROVES anything. And as far as Night actions go you have none, so you can't prove anything off of them anyways.

We are talking about probs and you know you are reaching just because you dont like to admit YOU ARE WRONG.

I've been saying this for the last 5 or so pages, if you don't know I'm not telling. I will not tell the scum how they can take out a cop tonight no sweat just becuase you're too dumb to figure it out yourself. Drop it. You want to be right, fine. we can't lose a cop. Happy now? If you ever bring the subject up again you are willing endangering the life of me and Corv and I will see you hang for it.

I dont want to endanger your or Corv's life. Ill stop there since this game has become more in Korlash needs to be alive tomorrow to win this. Have some group solidarity. Even I doubt scum can kill any of the cops, in the WORST scenario we have one more piece of information than today.

And what happens if we lynch Crazy today and he is mafia RBer?

How the fuck can you be 100% sure about this? How the fuck does this bring us more possibilities of winning today than tomorrow?

This is not a discusion of Crazy scum Crazy town. This is a discussion of MAXIMIZING the odds of winning this.

You can hypothesis about the glories and riches a no lynch might bring and I can do the same about what a lynch might bring. All we do is go in circles.

Except that if you are wrong we have more probs of losing than if Im wrong.
Also I like how people went from OMG NO LYNCH IS HORRIBLE SHIT to WELL, WE MIGHT CONSIDER IT IF WE DONT HAVE A CONSENSUS.

[populartajo]

Well, farside's 1397 is. Farside you may as well answer the questions I posed to you.

I'm sorry I'm really am busy can you give me the post number to your questions.

1)This feels like a contradicition to you?

I will say this corporate is unconventional. Scummy no, sarcastic absolutely.

I don't really get a scum vibe reading corp but I would like to see him give more information.

I just don't like corpo's attitude. I believe corpo is town based on Mana and not him just so you know. Attitude does say alot about a person.

2)How did you know Llama was town?
3)What happened to your suspicions of Mirth?

[farside22]

The problem is tajo that we don't know if the scum have a RB. Asking for a no lynch isn't helpful because what if the scum have a RB. Does one investigation mean less/ more? I mean seriously are you looking at Crazy and not thinking he is full of BS from one soft claim day 1 comment to today?

[populartajo]

The problem is tajo that we don't know if the scum have a RB. Asking for a no lynch isn't helpful because what if the scum have a RB. Does one investigation mean less/ more? I mean seriously are you looking at Crazy and not thinking he is full of BS from one soft claim day 1 comment to today?

We have 2 investigations, farside. I doubt scum has two roleblockers.
I am looking at Crazy. All indicates that he has more probs of turning scum than the majority of us. But, again I repeat...
This is not a discusion of Crazy scum Crazy town. This is a discussion of MAXIMIZING the odds of winning this.

Pd. Lol at Crazytown.

[populartajo]

The problem is tajo that we don't know if the scum have a RB. Asking for a no lynch isn't helpful because what if the scum have a RB. Does one investigation mean less/ more? I mean seriously are you looking at Crazy and not thinking he is full of BS from one soft claim day 1 comment to today?

You may as well comment on/answer my questions.

[farside22]

Well, farside's 1397 is. Farside you may as well answer the questions I posed to you.

I'm sorry I'm really am busy can you give me the post number to your questions.

1)This feels like a contradicition to you?

I will say this corporate is unconventional. Scummy no, sarcastic absolutely.

I don't really get a scum vibe reading corp but I would like to see him give more information.

I just don't like corpo's attitude. I believe corpo is town based on Mana and not him just so you know. Attitude does say alot about a person.

2)How did you know Llama was town?
3)What happened to your suspicions of Mirth?

1. No because if you take it out of context as you did I'm sure it might. But as I stated before. Each post shows me saying scum no. But I didn't like corp's attitude and stated as much. It is anti town behavior and not to helpful. Most of what I thought as far as corp was Mana seemed town. I believed her claim and her more. Even with corps anti town behavoir.
Scum does not always equal anti town I have learned.
2) I didn't know Llama was town. I stated for the 3rd time that SC's actions to me seemed like scum kissing a townies butt. I catch newbies doing it thought SC might be trying the same tactic. I usually have an idea whether someone seems town more then scum, but I'm told I am narrow minded.
3) I stated already my suspicion on Mirth was the action between her and Electra. Electra flipped town so that killed a bunch of what I had stated earlier.

[Mirth]

No, Tajo. That is updated. All the Crazy wagon tells us is if Crazy is town (doubtful) there are pairs of people who cannot be scum partners. I can list those out if you want, but its not as good as the 3 person thing.

If Crazy is town, then
SG and Mirth cannot be scum partners
SG and Tajo cannot be scum partners
SG and Corv cannot be scum partners
Tajo and Mirth cannot be scum partners
Tajo and Corv cannot be scum partners
Corv and Mirth cannot be scum partners

but this is if and only if Crazy is town which I dont think is true

[farside22]

The problem is tajo that we don't know if the scum have a RB. Asking for a no lynch isn't helpful because what if the scum have a RB. Does one investigation mean less/ more? I mean seriously are you looking at Crazy and not thinking he is full of BS from one soft claim day 1 comment to today?

We have 2 investigations, farside. I doubt scum has two roleblockers.
I am looking at Crazy. All indicates that he has more probs of turning scum than the majority of us. But, again I repeat...
This is not a discusion of Crazy scum Crazy town. This is a discussion of MAXIMIZING the odds of winning this.

Pd. Lol at Crazytown.

How do we know the scum have a RB or did I miss something?

[Korlash]

This is not necessarily true.

How so?

[Mirth]

It is perfectly possible to have a different scum team (likiliness and possibility are not the same), you and Cov would not necessarily be scum together (I dont want to get into the WIFOM here).

[Korlash]

True. What I mant was any three person scum team including me must include Corv as well. If we have multiple scum teams then yes, me and corv could both be scum and not on the same team.

However my point still stands. If I am scum and Corv is not a part of my group why did I not try to get him mislynced?

In addition, if we have multiple scum teams then your last post of impossible scum pairs is false. If it's a team of two then not having made the lynch proves nothing. Scum can't win tonight if they only have two members, so no pair would out themselves by speed lynching.

So... I suppose what we've proved is nothing is proven?

Unless we are dealing with a group of three and an SK. In which case I would have to be the SK. Now I know this is impossible (even if you don't) so... Pardon me if I still think my orriginal statement still holds weight.

[Mirth]

Noooo. I meant that the "me SC or Crazy" think may be likely but does not exclude other possibilities. You if you are scum separately of Corv might have thought it best to not get him lynched cause youre not squeaky clean yourself. Corv as scum might have had insider info. We don't know any of this. So the statement you made is not necessarily true