Mini 699: Insane Asylum Mafia: Game Over

[farside22]

Still slip. You just admitted Crazy was your scumpartner.

Umm I have no scum partner and no where in those question do I say Crazy is my scum partner. I asked if they thought there was 3 scums left. I asked who was my scum parnter if they believe I'm scum.
Reaching much?

[populartajo]

Alright I will ask the 2 cops. If you truely believe I'm scum who do you think

my scum partner is

? Do either of you believe that 3 scums are still in the game at this point?

Read carefully the bolded part.
You are assuming too much for my taste like you

really

know that Crazy was indeed scum, the 2 cops are telling the truth and that there is only 2 scum left.
.............
Now, answer me these questions plz.
Why do you think I am scum? Do you think Crazy is scum? Does the theory of Crazy mirroring my role makes sense to you? You said I was scum for pushing no lynch, however you thought it was a good idea at some point yesterday. Remember?
So, what happened to your support of my Coug case yesterday? Do you think Mirth is lying? Or this is a game where everybody should be lynched but you?

[populartajo]

No I mean no lynchng simply so the cops can confirm the other cop's investigation is worthless. Yes it would be nice to have but it's not worth no lynching over.

I agree with this comment.
Today is different than yesterday. We have a result. Yes, something crazy could have happened regarding farside guilty result, but after Crazy's role I really dont think scum can have something more powerful than that.

[farside22]

Alright I will ask the 2 cops. If you truely believe I'm scum who do you think

my scum partner is

? Do either of you believe that 3 scums are still in the game at this point?

Read carefully the bolded part.
You are assuming too much for my taste like you

really

know that Crazy was indeed scum, the 2 cops are telling the truth and that there is only 2 scum left.
.............
Now, answer me these questions plz.
Why do you think I am scum? Do you think Crazy is scum? Does the theory of Crazy mirroring my role makes sense to you? You said I was scum for pushing no lynch, however you thought it was a good idea at some point yesterday. Remember?
So, what happened to your support of my Coug case yesterday? Do you think Mirth is lying? Or this is a game where everybody should be lynched but you?

Now I know you are reaching too hard. You are taking 3 words out of a sentence that is so beneath you. I really expected better.

vote: populartajo

[populartajo]

Perfect.
Now, answer me these questions plz.
Why do you think I am scum? Do you think Crazy is scum? Does the theory of Crazy mirroring my role makes sense to you? You said I was scum for pushing no lynch, however you thought it was a good idea at some point yesterday. Remember?
So, what happened to your support of my Coug case yesterday? Do you think Mirth is lying? Or this is a game where everybody should be lynched but you?

[farside22]

Perfect.
Now, answer me these questions plz.
Why do you think I am scum? Do you think Crazy is scum? Does the theory of Crazy mirroring my role makes sense to you? You said I was scum for pushing no lynch, however you thought it was a good idea at some point yesterday. Remember?
So, what happened to your support of my Coug case yesterday? Do you think Mirth is lying? Or this is a game where everybody should be lynched but you?

Because you pushed for a no lynch on a player that was caught in a lie. If you believe Crazy then that means I'm telling you the truth as I'm innocent. However I believe he was a scum theif as a someone pushing for a no lynch on a scum theif makes sense. Then Crazy as scum can steel the cops vest and scum can kill the cop. This is why I thought you tried to push a no lynch to give your scum parnter a chance to do that.
Crazy flipped town and since I was told I was targeted and received a guilty I believe Crazy's theif claim and he died with my role.
PFft I'm not saying lynch the cops am I? No I'm saying you got a guity. I got a guity. I know my role as town and believe I may no have been switched with a theif. You claim and push for a no lynch instead of a lynch based on a person who lied and others say him lie.
Now you want to go back and say oh well he could be a reverse of me is just another attempt to reach to cause a mislynch.
Since you have been after Mirth all game. I can either assume trying to lynch a townie at this point. I know scum buss but like that. No the way you have gone after Mirth I think you tried and then left the SC train as an attempt to buss your scum parnter but let it go when needed.

[populartajo]

I understand what tajo is getting at with a lylo and no lynch but I seriously think Crazy lied

What changed?
Farside and everyone, read this: Yesterday when I was pushing no lynch I was not fighting about Crazy's alignment. I was only asking for more information (Crazy's result, your result, taking out the naive/paranoid possibility).Therefore more probs of winning the game. Ironically, Crazy flipped

town

but its very prob he is scum, therefore we wouldnt be playing right now.
Today we have that information. We have a guilty on farside. Add this to my previous suspicions of her, POE for others. Sorry farside, the cop I most believe its sane and has a guilty result on you.
There is no better lynch than yours. You could argue 100 million times mine is better but sadly, it is not.
Do you think Crazy is a thief or a scum miller? You say he lied but you believe his claim. The theory of he being a thief that stole vests doesnt make sense. It would make sense if everyone had items but not everyone have them. What did he "steal" from you: your Vanilla ice posters? And even worse, in that robbery he left his scum ID in your house giving the town another miller in the exchange?
Frankly, that is such an hyper over powered role for scum, that its really really hard to believe it.
Sigh, how many inconsistencies do I have to find?

[farside22]

Wow how many times did I say no to the no lynch and lets lynch the lying crazy.
I state this:

I understand what tajo is getting at with a lylo and no lynch but I seriously think Crazy lied

And you take that to mean I was good with a lylo where reading the whole sentence. You know the complete sentence I wasn't for lylo at all.

See you keep dodging whether you think Crazy is scum then when Kor brings up the possible idea of a reverse death miller you are all over it.
Now you are pushing my lynch. So yes I believe Crazy was scum based on the fact that I now have come up guilty. You are pushing my lynch but not a no lynch as you want scum to win and know that lynching me will win the scum the game.
That's my POV.

[populartajo]

See you keep dodging whether you think Crazy is scum then when Kor brings up the possible idea of a reverse death miller you are all over it.

It makes more sense than he being a thief. Or do you think is the opposite?

Do you think Crazy is a thief or a scum miller? You say he lied but you believe his claim. The theory of he being a thief that stole vests doesnt make sense. It would make sense if everyone had items but not everyone have them. What did he "steal" from you: your Vanilla ice posters? And even worse, in that robbery he left his scum ID in your house giving the town another miller in the exchange?

Frankly, that is such an hyper over powered role for scum, that its really really hard to believe it. Do you?

[farside22]

See you keep dodging whether you think Crazy is scum then when Kor brings up the possible idea of a reverse death miller you are all over it.

It makes more sense than he being a thief. Or do you think is the opposite?

Do you think Crazy is a thief or a scum miller? You say he lied but you believe his claim. The theory of he being a thief that stole vests doesnt make sense. It would make sense if everyone had items but not everyone have them. What did he "steal" from you: your Vanilla ice posters? And even worse, in that robbery he left his scum ID in your house giving the town another miller in the exchange?

Frankly, that is such an hyper over powered role for scum, that its really really hard to believe it. Do you?

2 cops and a doc. Your talking one role then can flip so that both comes that are 1 shot NK immune makes sense to me.
I said yesterday I believed he was lying but that was because of his claim and what he said one day versus another.
Do you really think or know something the rest of us don't, please share so we can lynch you now.

[Corvuus]

well, i'm still waiting to hear more from the new player but something I think needs to be clarified.

Crazy claims he targetted Electra and then Electra was subsequently lynched and flipped up as town. So Crazy can not have an ability that turns people into death millers (at least not on a permanent basis) and then assuming he actually told the truth about his target.

Crazy did say that he 'softclaimed' because 'something happens upon his death' and he wanted to WIFOM/mindgame scum (and perhaps town) and that could be because when Crazy dies some ability happens... he said this in his initial claim but later on, his thief claim didn't really synch with this since according to the thief claim, nothing good would come out of his death at all basically.

Anyways, all of that is mere speculation and such and I'd have to admit I do not like how farside said "it turned me into a death miller" so Farside will flip scum if lynched now.

I hate how people continue to use death miller/miller interchangably at points but I consider the death miller conversion instead of a miller conversion to be a potential scumslip.

The guilty result "could" be since Crazy made her into a miller "somehow". But a death miller? That is impossible to know or even suspect and for Farside to say it just seems odd.

I can post more of my thoughts but the death miller phrasing bugs me most right now, so i'd like to hear what people think.

Corv

[farside22]

It could be miller. I just assumed that crazy was scum at this point. As he fliped town and I have a guilty verdict over my head.

[Corvuus]

as i said, i don't like people using death miller/miller as interchangable words .
but despite me saying it several times throughout the game, people still do.

C

[populartajo]

Really its a big effort to understand what farside is trying exactly to say but I would like some re phrasal of posts 1684 and 1686. Please.
Corv, nice points, specially the Electra one. At the end a death miller only more fucked up.
Ok, so farside thinks Crazy is scum.
How overpowered would a scum role be if besides having the potential of flipping town can transform a townie into scum?
It just doesnt make sense.

[farside22]

Not sure what your missing with post 1686. As for 1684.
Looking at a set up where you have 2 cops that are NK (1 shot immune) 2 millers and a thief who can switch roles.
Think of it.
How does a cop with 1 shot immunity make sense?
Well if the cops investigations mean nothing.
If you believe for a moment that Crazy was telling the truth and he took people's roles. So if he takes Electra's role and the cops checked out Electra would they have received a guilty or innocent? If Crazy is scum who can swap roles then in my mind 2 cops and 1 doc make sense as the cops investiagions can be dirtied from Crazy. I can't image without a SK in this game how cops with 1 shot NK and a doc can make sense otherwise.

[populartajo]

Why do you still think Crazy was a thief and not an inverted miller when everything points to this last possibility?
Why do you think he coughed 4th miller early D1 and he

believed

my claim more than other normal millers claims?
2 millers, 1 death miller and 2 cops even with total NK inmunity facing a scum that can switch roles is impossible, farside, and you know this.
And about the NK inmunity of cops I think it was a way to balance this millerish setup in case cop would be forced to claim so that he at least could have one more investigation/drawing NK.
I dont want to imagine how this game would have gone if I hadnt claimed death miller D1 causing the posterior miller "counterclaims". Ironic to say that all these players that had somehow semiconfirmed status are already dead and that my lynch is still being pondered. Crazy world.
........
Still waiting for KK here.

Prod please.

[forbiddanlight]

Still waiting for KK here. Prod please.

It has been 96 hours or close to it, hasn't it? Will do. I'll determine the time to see if it counts against his 3.

Nevermind, he posted as recently as Sunday. Usually I'd respond to a player requested prod but 48 hours is a bit ridiculous.

[Corvuus]

I think there is more than enough here for people to comment on and such, so i look forward to kk, et al.

As for power balance/game setup, I don't think it is 'too useful' to try to balance it with the way things are 'now'.

Right 'now' the setup may seem broken since there are 2 cops with NK resistance and 'sanity' issue but you have to consider that the beginning of the game was 'fairly' dangerous.

"insane" cop Penta getting a guilty on corv -> could have accused, claimed, counterclaimed and cops kill each other. Corv and Kor could have counterclaimed and killed each other. Crazy (if scum thief, RB) could have gotten a cop, etc. Millers could have killed each other. etc.

So to argue 'now' that it is overpowered just isn't useful since there were MANY opportunities for things to go wrong and yet, somehow, only townies and millers died allowing the end game to have 'claimed power roles' and thus 'may' be broken.

So to say that scum have to have a godfather or a 'role switching role' now, as opposed to before, is kind of misleading.

I'm just still debating on what I should believe of Crazy and how he said "something bad happens upon my death", if that means roleswitching type or was it just usual BS which transformed into thief claim. The mod flavor has Crazy 'returning an item' but I don't think we should rely on that as 'proving' Crazy was a thief since Mod may just hate us ALOT .
(don't worry FL i don't take it personal!).

I am leaning towards a vote on Farside but I want to hear others first.

Corv

[forbiddanlight]

The Thirty-Fourth "Well..." Vote Count

"Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad."
"How do you know that I'm mad?"
"You must be, or you wouldn't have come here!"

Mod Note: Fixed quote in VC 33.

farside22 (1): Populartajo,
StrangerCoug (0)
Korlash (0)
Mirth (0)
Corvuus (0)
Populartajo (1): farside22


Not Voting (4): StrangerCoug, Korlash, Mirth, Corvuus

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch
Deadline is at 10 PM EST, Thursday, February 19th, 2009

[Mirth]

Farside, I want to know why you think your role was switched exactly?

[Kublai Khan]

Cut me a break guys I've reached Page 34 (Day 2). I think the probability of there being a godfather in this game is very real so I'm feeling pretty obligated to read the whole thing. However you guys are in love with the sound of your keyboards clacking so it's taking me longer than anticipated.

You left out Crazy claiming roleblock and role 'steal' (sort of) thief role and that he targeted Electra N1 and Farside N2.

I'm keeping that in mind as I'm reading through the early stuff. Crazy's "bread-crumbing" is definitely giving off the vibe that he knew he was a scum-miller, but didn't quite know how to claim (read: take advantage of it properly).

Since you guys want my thought before I'm finished, then I'll furnish them with the caveat that I've not completed a full re-read and reserve the right to change later on.

I think farside22 is scum (prob. Goon), and Mirth is a godfather. I believe Corvuus' role and farside22's guilty result is pretty self-explanatory and I don't believe his wild theory about Crazy giving him guilt. Mirth claim of "poss. killing doc" sounds iffy. If the whole "mirrors" concept holds water, then why isn't there a post-restricted doc? Mirth has no mirror, has a useless unverifiable role, and investigates town? Sounds like godfather scum to me.

Two complications:

1) All of Korlash's investigations are alive and therefore unverifiable. The whole "mirror" theory depends on Korlash telling the truth about his role and a Crazy being a scum-miller, so it could just be a really well-played smoke & mirrors game. I'm paying special attention to both him and Pentadragon on me re-read. It's a longshot, but I've got my eye on the possibility.

2) populartajo's death miller claim is annoying and problematic. SlySly played pretty badly on Day 1, but his suggestion about killing the death miller on Day 1 as opposed to letting him live until LYLO (or quasi-LYLO) is starting to make sense policy-wise. But Crazy's weird role doesn't make sense unless he is what he says he is, so I'm letting it go.

[Mirth]

Um when did I claim that I kill people? That was Tajo's invention. I said I don't know for sure but I don't think I do. Now do you have anything on me besides not reading my role claim?

[farside22]

Farside, I want to know why you think your role was switched exactly?

Because Corv is claiming that he received a guilty on me. It is the only theory I can think of as to why he would receive a guilty on me as I know I'm a vanilla townie.

[populartajo]

Um when did I claim that I kill people? That was Tajo's invention.

Prove it.

[Corvuus]

Mirth: can you say the 'bad thing' that could happen even with a successful scum lynch today? I'm thought about it, and I can't quite figure it out.

Corv