Mini 699: Insane Asylum Mafia: Game Over

[Corvuus]

KK:

why do you think there should be a post-restricted doc? because of the whole 'mirror' thing?

To one extent, thinking of it as mirrors is interesting but I think it is kind of mod speculation and such for whether there should have been a "2nd doc with a PR" or something like that. Having 2 cops (mirrored) and 2 docs (mirrored) would be really weird.

Cor

[Korlash]

Come to think of it me and you aren't "totally" mirrored there Corv. Our Flavor does seem to be have similar elements, and we do have the "same" powers, but you do have the PR type deal on your side which I didn't. Plus to get literal our roles are the same, where-as Pop's and Crazys are opposites. So theirs is "mirrored" ours are just similar.

But yeah that could explain no mirror with the doc. With two of the same role they have to be given similar elements or else it will screw the town over come claim time. Take the two millers, they aren't "mirrors" of each other, simply the "same" role. And mine and Corv's roles are the "same" minus the difference in sanities. And of course if you wanted to argue why a doc doesn't have a "mirror" you would have to explain where the GF's mirror is, which I suppose you could argue were the millers, no? Huh, that actuall works... damn I'm good.

What else... what else... right... wait... no, right. I have yet to see anything that convinses me lynching Farside isn't the best thing to do. The whole "Crazy gave me his role" goes back to pretty much the reason I suspected Crazy yesterday, and as I was against not lynching him, I'm pretty much feel the same about Farside.

@ Corv: What was the downside to breaking that PR again?

[Mirth]

Um when did I claim that I kill people? That was Tajo's invention.

Prove it.

Learn to read. I NEVER claimed that I am a killing doc. There is a chance I might be, but *I* don't think I am. You do.

Farside: but what makes you think you got his role permanently? No basis for that that I see.

Corv: I think you're confused here. There is one thing scum can do that is not good in both the case of a lynch or a no lynch. I mention this cause it would be a lot lot lot worse in no lynch, and in the case of a successful lynch it will happen, but it won't be awful. Think about night choices.

[populartajo]

Learn to read. I NEVER claimed that I am a killing doc. There is a chance I might be, but *I* don't think I am. You do.

First of all this killing doc isnt my invention. You might be the one that should learn to read.
Second, I only stated that its possible that you could be killing a doc, as you also think.
Finally, what makes you so sure about that? What makes you think that you are a 50/50 doc?

[Mirth]

How many times do we have to go over this Tajo? Seriously? The way my roll pm is phrased suggests that I am not always effective. Don't know where its 50/50, 40/60, even/odd nights, no idea there. My pm tells me I'm not 100% up to date, but it doesn't hint at screwups being harmful. I cannot be completely sure that I'm not a killing doc, but I don't see any reason to think I am. Now then, why do you keep harping about this. You sayyou think I'm scum, yes? So why are you so obsessed with the mechanics of my claim?

[Kublai Khan]

Now do you have anything on me besides not reading my role claim?

Not really, I'm up to page 46 now. So I've now read your claim and the "not 100% bit". The fact that "doctor" got claimed before deadline on one day, then got revised to "rusty doctor" on the next day doesn't fill me with pro-town feeling. Once I'm fully caught up (by the weekend I'm sure, then I'll get to work on a more formal case).

KK:

why do you think there should be a post-restricted doc? because of the whole 'mirror' thing?

To one extent, thinking of it as mirrors is interesting but I think it is kind of mod speculation and such for whether there should have been a "2nd doc with a PR" or something like that. Having 2 cops (mirrored) and 2 docs (mirrored) would be really weird.

Whenever there's been a mass-claim, then the game becomes a matter of sorting out who is fake-claiming. I'm not trying to "out-guess" the mod, but rather I'm giving the mod the full benefit of the doubt that she has chosen a balanced setup.

So I've been wondering which roles fit and which don't. Godfather fits and Rusty Doc doesn't.

But again, this is early speculation. I reserve the right, yadda yadda yadda...

[Corvuus]

This is a long post. Sorry.
---------------
KK: I don't think it precludes a godfather in this setup but, Kor investigated Mirth and got a guilty which would mean that Mirth 'shouldn't' be a godfather since then Kor would get a innocent. If anyone is a Godfather, it should be SC (you KK).

Kor: as I said before:

I snuck into the insane asylum to help. (thinking sane cop) and I brought my NK resistance with me. Because of the 'craziness' I expect to see, my character decides to have a ... 'rotating compulsive desire' (i suppose similar to how vote count description changes each type to a different disorder) to do something in order to try to 'fit in'. Day 1 and day 2 should be obvious.

Whether because the 'compulsiveness' was not very noob-friendly or such, or whatever reason, if I decide to break my 'compulsiveness', then I must claim my role. The paraphrasing would be that: I was trying to fit in, but once revealing myself (i.e. I am a cop, I've come to help) then I no longer need to 'keep up appearances'.

It could also be that if I had to continue my 'compulsiveness', then no one would ever believe I am sane, etc. etc.

Ironically, I think i was the first person to say "mirrors" in this game, and that was because Cor was 'insane in words, sane investigation' and Kor was sane in words, insane in investigation. As for the 'compulsiveness', it might be for balance reasons somehow (2 cops with NK resistance and it looks like we are 'sane/insane' respectively is quite powerful) and I speculated (back with Crazy's claim) that the town-aligned roles all had a 'negative/weakness' to them. I.e. Kor was 'insane', Cor was 'compulsive speaking', Mirth is a 'rusty doc', and so forth. I didn't consider my 'compulsiveness' to be "odd" but rather in keeping with town-aligned roles getting 'screwed'.

One reason I didn't like Crazy's claim is that his so called weakness was that he had to use it "every night" but not on the same person and his interpretation of his role.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The game seems to be dragging a bit, and this might be hubris of me, but I think virtually everyone here sees me as my claim so I will state 'where I am at' and see if we can progress from there.

Refer to my previous post on Crazy lynch and why I investigated Farside.

---------------

Day starts, and I find that Shadowgirl is killed. This perplexes me a great deal since I expected either no one to die (due to NK resistance or potentially Mirth) or for Mirth or SC to die... not SG.

To make this simple (sorry I can't be anything but verbose):
I believe Crazy was scum and we have 2 scum left.

I believe scum ARE playing to win and there are two different 'modes' to consider. Scum playing their hand 'together' and scum 'playing it solo'.

It is overwhelmingly obvious that scum discussed and decided to play it 'solo' and rely on mindgames to win at the end. Most likely scum will bus each other.

For a 'scum-team' play, I would have expected no one to die (thus giving scum a potential extra vote with SG) and in the current situation, I consider it extremely unlikely for scum to try to win with both members surviving.

There are 6 players, 4 to lynch, 2 are scum, 2 are cop claims and 2 are doc/townie claims. I'm going to assume everyone (scum included) believes the cop claims. I will also assume that the cops won't vote each other (at least, I won't vote Kor without incredible reasons) and no one will 'self-vote'.

That means it is 'virtually' impossible for scum to win by team vote. If they vote a cop, it is tantamount to suicide, if they vote the townie/doc, the victim won't self-vote and even if they convince the other town-aligned player, that is still only 3 votes. Thus scum would have to convince the cop(s) and that may prove difficult (since they may also vote together).

Team scum can be easier to see than solo scum, so my original purpose in saying "vote no lynch" and "i may be 50-50 on farside investigation" was my attempt at hoping to bring scum back into "team scum" mode with them playing "convince the cop(s)". I said my post was misleading and I think people know by now that I'm not easily convinced (am stubborn-ish). The point was, I wanted Farside to react without just clamming up and I was hoping someone else (in this case Tajo) would react as well in "convince the cop". I called into question my sanity and my vote (no lynch) because I want to present 'hesitation' so that people will try to convince me.

Farside acted roughly as expected. Said something about Kor, said about no lynch, and that within itself might be 'innocent' but then I gave the 50-50 alignment possibility of myself as a way 'out' but Farside chose to say that she was a death miller now due to Crazy (i consider that part crazier than Crazy's claim). I consider that a good amount of 'circumstantial' evidence to consider a Farside lynch in addition to my guilty result.

The main problem is.... all signs point to scum NOT going for a 2 scum team win but rather a 'solo' scum sneaking into endgame and due to WIFOM/mindgame, surviving the 'final round' and winning. I hoped they wouldn't but apparently that is why someone was chosen as NK. I still don't know why SG since if the end game was SG, 2 cops and scum, then it would be harder for cops since SG is guilty on investigation while everyone else can be investigated. SC got innocent, Mirth got guilty (innocent by insanity). SC could be godfather or anything but I don't think Mirth is godfather or SK. (unless SG was completely obvious townie compared to SC and Mirth which is also possible).

I consider Tajo very likely to be scum since if scum 'know' that team scum can't win together, then most likely they will decide to "bus" each other and such and hope for a win in the endgame. Tajo and Farside are the only ones voting for each other. Everyone else, (me, Kor, Mirth, KK) continue to play 'solo-acts' and the meta of what I expect/am thinking, doesn't seem to quite fit.

I do fear there is some role that hasn't been considered (SK or whatever) and that things could implode or that I'm completely wrong. That is why I was trying to get scum to go for a 2-scum team win but it is so-so.

........

I'm fairly convinced that Farside is scum. If the partner is Tajo... then that is one thing. If the partner is "not" Tajo, then I admit, I'm quite perplexed. I believe Kor (due to Penta, claim, etc.) and I'd be amazed if he was scum working this out somehow. Mirth, I'm potentially more biased (pro-mirth) towards since I played with her before in a different game and I think I understand/like her play. 2 points bother me a little, but... they would point to her being a serial killer or something and that simply doesn't make sense. SC I wished hadn't replaced since I consider him 'easy' to read. Scummy words but not scum. I'm inclined to believe my investigation though and that SC isn't a godfather (or at least, various reads and signs that he shouldn't be).

At this point, I think I am overthinking things and I think I'm about ready to move the endgame.... I will be voting to lynch Farside followed by a vote to lynch Tajo.

Of course, I am still playing 'convince the cop'.

Corvuus

[populartajo]

Corv, why cant Mirth be godfather?
I understand how you ended with that farside-Tajo theory but if you read all the game you'll realize that of all players here Im the less possible farside scumpartner. Me pushing farside lynch is not new, is not thing of this day as you are trying to imply. Me as scum pushing scumpartner farside when no one else suspected her since D2 is yeah, possible but unlikely.
Farside voting me is obviously a way to a)save her own ass and/or b)trying to generate that feeling of bussing that would obviously lead her scumpartner to the victory with my lynch tomorrow.
Corv, this is not ONLY a game of today's apparent happenings, speculation of power roles and such. We have 69 pages of posts and relations with confirmed people and with a very likely scum. Id suggest reading that before coming up with light conclusions.
Right now Im leaning Mirth as scumpartner. Could you reread her and tell me what do you think of her, knowing that farside is prob scum? A reread could change things from my perspective but I really like KK tone and I already assumed that I have to believe you and Korlash.
I know you hate my playstyle but Im playing this the best I can.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
FInally think in a possible scenario for you (most likely scenario for me).
Both scum playing together to lynch the death miller.

[Mirth]

KK, because what would claiming rustiness help anyone but scum?

Tajo, how about you answer my question. If you're so positive I'm scum why do you keep obsessing over my role claim?

[populartajo]

Tajo, how about you answer my question. If you're so positive I'm scum why do you keep obsessing over my role claim?

I think its obvious. Im having a hard time believing it.

[farside22]

With what I'm reading forgive me a little leverage for the moment.

unvote:
vote: mirth

[Mirth]

Tajo, how about you answer my question. If you're so positive I'm scum why do you keep obsessing over my role claim?

I think its obvious. Im having a hard time believing it.

Thats my point. You obviously dont believe me since you keep saying I'm scum. So why do you keep asking again and again if I'm going to keep repeating myself with the same information and you'll go on not believing me?

Farside: um, okay? would you care to share your reasons for voting me? or you know answer my question from before about why you think you have Crazy's role permenantly?

[farside22]

I keep saying over and over the following.
Corv says he received a guilty on my. My assumption is that Crazy has marked me as something either miller or whatever role he had for I know I am town and that is the only thing I can think of.
Corv doesn't believe. Can't say I don't blame him. I'm just doing the best I can with trying to find who is scum with whom at this point.

[Mirth]

That still doesn't answer either of my questions. Why are you voting me? and why do you think its *permanent*.

[farside22]

That still doesn't answer either of my questions. Why are you voting me? and why do you think its *permanent*.

I'm not answering the why I'm voting for you question.
I'm not sure why you don't find my answer sufficent but I will expand a bit.
Crazy is dead. Lynch yesterday. Last night Corv targeted me and says this morning he found me guilty. Now in my mind if he targets me at night and Crazy is dead what is to say that I'm town? Did I change permanently when Crazy died? Do I no longer have a town role? The mod never sent me a PM so I know I don't have Crazy's claimed role. But what about the idea of someone who can change your allignment upon death?
So that is what is in my mind.

[Mirth]

Perhaps you don't understand my question. What makes you think Crazy's alignment will stick to you.

And why arent you answering why youre voting for me?

[farside22]

Perhaps you don't understand my question. What makes you think Crazy's alignment will stick to you.

And why arent you answering why youre voting for me?

I am just going off of the cops results. I have no clue if it is permanent or not. That was why I suggest Kor checking me tonight

[Korlash]

Why aren't you answering why you are voting Mirth?

[Korlash]

Hello?


ECHO....eCHO... cHO.... hO....o....

*sniff* all alone in an Insane Asylum... I know I'll read a book! Hmmm... "One Flew over-" NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Mirth]

I'm here. I'm waiting for Tajo and Farside to answer

[farside22]

Well I wanted to get tajo's reaction to the vote as I do feel he is scum. If he voted for Mirth then I would start thinking it early scum bussing or mirth is indeed town. However with tajo disappeared or not coming in to say boo. I think his accusation towards Mirth and the fact he didn't vote for her today says scum buddies. I would vote either Mirth or Tajo and believe them to be scum together at this point.

[Mirth]

~twiddles thumbs~ So why am I scum with Tajo?

[populartajo]

Well I wanted to get tajo's reaction to the vote as I do feel he is scum. If he voted for Mirth then I would start thinking it early scum bussing or mirth is indeed town. However with tajo disappeared or not coming in to say boo. I think his accusation towards Mirth and the fact he didn't vote for her today says scum buddies. I would vote either Mirth or Tajo and believe them to be scum together at this point.

This doesnt make sense at all. Id vote a guilty result 100 times over a player that I dont like but still has the prob of being a "rusty doc".
And sorry if there are scum bussing right now its probably you two. Ive been behind your scummy derrieres since D2 and please, anyone with time can reread both of you and realize how scummy your relationship is.
.............
Mirth what do you want me to answer? Isnt it obvious that if I am having a hard time believing your role claim and Im questioning it because Im trying to understand it/trying to give it a sense?

[populartajo]

Hello?


ECHO....eCHO... cHO.... hO....o....

*sniff* all alone in an Insane Asylum... I know I'll read a book! Hmmm... "One Flew over-" NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Im quite bothered with your silence. Here I am waiting for you and your opinion of farside WIFOMing like shit.