[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Mr. Flay]

Just hunting the data. You always have such pretty charts, I wondered if it was all illustrative or if some of it was based in your data mining.

[Adel]

I think in shapes, so that is the easiest way for me to communicate.

(i'm borrowing graphics, obviously)

I guess my disclaimer wasn't explicit enough. I found graphics that kind of fit the shapes I had in my head, and used them for illustrative purposes, only.

[Tenchi]

Doublecrossed (edits in BOLD)

2 Doctors
5 Vanilla Townies

2 Mafia Lovers

1 Vampire

Mod Notes:

Vampire: Plays for Town. If NKed, stays and becomes a Mafia Lover

Doctor: Cannot protect self

Mafia Lovers, together submits two choices, one choice to kill and one choice to roleblock.

[Tenchi]

Just hunting the data. You always have such pretty charts, I wondered if it was all illustrative or if some of it was based in your data mining.

Theoretically the graphs illustrate the point well.

If you/Adel/anyone can direct me to some math/simulators/calculators for it, that would be awesome.

[Adel]

dig though the MD forum and the wiki... the meat is here though: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10751

[Tenchi]

I'm going to try to grasp the numbers part by reviewing some statistics. I need it too for my other game that I'm making.

Others, feel free to review using guesstimation. I will repost my findings soon.

[Tenchi]

Question: At what state is the Open Setup Approval Committee in? Are they approving setups from players or are they still reviewing past setups? Does the committee still exist?

[Adel]

Question: At what state is the Open Setup Approval Committee in? Are they approving setups from players or are they still reviewing past setups? Does the committee still exist?

it is a recent group, only a couple of months old.
We're almost done evaluating setups that have been run in the past, but we've stalled out on how to evaluate games with two scum groups.

After that we will start on un-run setups, but we haven't started to figure out which order we will go in. It is a work in progress.

[shaft.ed]

I don't like the Lovers idea. It really doesn't do anything to address the problem IMHO and makes the scum arbitrarily weaker and adds a very different dynamic to the game detracting from the core "Vampire" mechanic is supposed to be focusing on.

I'd "solve" it by giving the scum a finite number of roleblocks that they can use whenever they wish, One attempt per night phase.

[Tenchi]

I don't like the Lovers idea. It really doesn't do anything to address the problem IMHO and makes the scum arbitrarily weaker and adds a very different dynamic to the game detracting from the core "Vampire" mechanic is supposed to be focusing on.

I'd "solve" it by giving the scum a finite number of roleblocks that they can use whenever they wish, One attempt per night phase.

Lovers comment noted. The roleblocks are meant to be one per night, as a group action.

[shaft.ed]

I don't like the Lovers idea. It really doesn't do anything to address the problem IMHO and makes the scum arbitrarily weaker and adds a very different dynamic to the game detracting from the core "Vampire" mechanic is supposed to be focusing on.

I'd "solve" it by giving the scum a finite number of roleblocks that they can use whenever they wish, One attempt per night phase.

Lovers comment noted. The roleblocks are meant to be one per night, as a group action.

Yes, I'm saying limit the number. Say two total per game? That adds another layer to the Docs claiming/scum RB'ing etc.

[Tenchi]

I don't like the Lovers idea. It really doesn't do anything to address the problem IMHO and makes the scum arbitrarily weaker and adds a very different dynamic to the game detracting from the core "Vampire" mechanic is supposed to be focusing on.

I'd "solve" it by giving the scum a finite number of roleblocks that they can use whenever they wish, One attempt per night phase.

Lovers comment noted. The roleblocks are meant to be one per night, as a group action.

Yes, I'm saying limit the number. Say two total per game? That adds another layer to the Docs claiming/scum RB'ing etc.

Limiting the number complicates the setup (the additional roleblock ability is a deviation already). Also, the issue here (for me) is the fun will stop if the Doctors do NOT make it to end game. I'll try to run the original setup and check for swinginess (I have a basic vanilla simulator already).

[shaft.ed]

Shrink the set up so it starts closer to end game?

1 Doc, 1 Scum, 1 Vamp, X townies?

[Tenchi]

That is more swingy, since recruitment effectively doubles the size of scum. Removal of Doc early removes the fun part too.

EDIT: BTW, I like the intention of shrinking it. I want this to be tight as possible.

[Adel]

Shrink the set up so it starts closer to end game?

1 Doc, 1 Scum, 1 Vamp, X townies?

I don't like it because it doesn't meet my personal standard for an informed minority, and therefor isn't what I consider to be mafia. I suggested the use of the Lovers Mechanic because I also wanted to shrink it, while preserving the informed minority.

[Tenchi]

The thing is, the Lovers right now would significantly weaken Mafia, and would complicate the setup. I will try what happens with more Townies though. I'm almost done with my program.

[Tenchi]

I'm having trouble with the accuracy of my program. Will update you guys when I finish.

[Empking]

Green Modding Guide

Mafia:

1 GF
1 RB

Town:
1 Cop
1 Doc
1 Vig
3 Townies

[Simenon]

Mafia A; Mafia B

Nightless
Mafia A
Mafia B
4 Townies

If Mafia B is lynched before Mafia A is lynched, everybody loses.
Mafia A wins all three player endgames.

[animorpherv1]

Simenon - Are Mafia A and Mafia told they are A & B? If not, you'd need to change that.
Empking - A good basic setup, for players who are new. At least, in my opinion. My only concren is the Vig, which doubles the kills/night. With 7 town and 2 Mafia, that may be bad, unless we have perfect doc protections.

[Simenon]

Simenon - Are Mafia A and Mafia told they are A & B? If not, you'd need to change that.

Yes, they are told, or else everyone will lose more than half the time.

[skitzer]

A Mafia Composed of Jesters

2 Jester Masons (win condition is to get one of them lynched)
10 Townies

This probably needs a lot of tweaking, but the basic mechanic is very interesting IMO.

[dahill1]

It's basically Loser Mafia (mafia want to get lynched, town want to lynch other town)

[charter]

Yeah, that's not mafia at all.

[dahill1]

Nah it was actually a fun game, just pointing out that it's already been done