[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[iamausername]

Let's make the cop one-shot only on even nights, and the doc one-shot only on odd nights, and make it so the doc can't protect the cop, and give the scum a roleblocker.

And a one-shot odd night deputy and a one-shot even night nurse. And make the scum werewolves 50% of the time.

[Xylthixlm]

Let's make the cop one-shot only on even nights, and the doc one-shot only on odd nights, and make it so the doc can't protect the cop, and give the scum a roleblocker.

And a one-shot odd night deputy and a one-shot even night nurse. And make the scum werewolves 50% of the time.

The really, really amusing part is that this setup is unbalanced in favor of the town.

[Elephant Hell]

In my opinion you're overcomplicating things with your suggestions. It would be far simpler to have a 1-shot Even-night Deputy/Odd-night Nurse secret Serial Killer/Psychiatrist Stump who becomes a Compulsive Day-Suicidebomber (also 1-shot) in lynch or lose situations.

:/

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Guilty OR alive

COP HEADSTART
2 mafia
5 Townies
1 Cop- sanity confirmed

And there's a 50/50 chance of the following options:
an un-nightkillable Survivor (scum can win with the Survivor alive, town cannot).
OR
an additional townie that's a miller (they are not told) and one member of the mafia is investigation-immune.


Now here's an interesting scenario: if there's a survivor, scum do not want to lynch the survivor, and yet town

does

. Then this adds WIFOM as to whether there's a survivor or not. At the same time,

if

there's a survivor, scum has to try to find

who

it is, so that they don't waste their night kill, and so that they don't lynch them.

Questions and problems:

1) Should mafia be told WHO the survivor is?
2) Should I change it so that town can win with the survivor? I didn't want to do this, because then survivor could easily claim, and then the cop will know hir results are reliable.
3) Can you think of a better name?

[StrangerCoug]

1) Should mafia be told WHO the survivor is?

No.

2) Should I change it so that town can win with the survivor? I didn't want to do this, because then survivor could easily claim, and then the cop will know hir results are reliable.

I personally would. If you have problems with the survivor winning with the town, take it out of the setup.

3) Can you think of a better name?

No.

[Empking]

Guilty OR alive

COP HEADSTART
2 mafia
5 Townies
1 Cop- sanity confirmed

And there's a 50/50 chance of the following options:
an un-nightkillable Survivor (scum can win with the Survivor alive, town cannot).
OR
an additional townie that's a miller (they are not told) and one member of the mafia is investigation-immune.


Now here's an interesting scenario: if there's a survivor, scum do not want to lynch the survivor, and yet town

does

. Then this adds WIFOM as to whether there's a survivor or not. At the same time,

if

there's a survivor, scum has to try to find

who

it is, so that they don't waste their night kill, and so that they don't lynch them.

Questions and problems:

1) Should mafia be told WHO the survivor is?
2) Should I change it so that town can win with the survivor? I didn't want to do this, because then survivor could easily claim, and then the cop will know hir results are reliable.
3) Can you think of a better name?

Just make him a NK-able traitor who doesn't count towards victory condition for scum.

[gorckat]

Guilty OR alive

COP HEADSTART
2 mafia
5 Townies
1 Cop- sanity confirmed

And there's a 50/50 chance of the following options:
an un-nightkillable Survivor (scum can win with the Survivor alive, town cannot).
OR
an additional townie that's a miller (they are not told) and one member of the mafia is investigation-immune.


Now here's an interesting scenario: if there's a survivor, scum do not want to lynch the survivor, and yet town

does

. Then this adds WIFOM as to whether there's a survivor or not. At the same time,

if

there's a survivor, scum has to try to find

who

it is, so that they don't waste their night kill, and so that they don't lynch them.

Questions and problems:

1) Should mafia be told WHO the survivor is?
2) Should I change it so that town can win with the survivor? I didn't want to do this, because then survivor could easily claim, and then the cop will know hir results are reliable.
3) Can you think of a better name?

Just make him a NK-able traitor who doesn't count towards victory condition for scum.

1) No- then you basically have three mafia in a 7 person game
2) As written, if its survivor/townie after lynching the second scum, the survivor wins? Seems unfair to the town.

In the case of a miller/GF, are they revealed as such on death?

What about not telling the survivor his true role? Sucks to find scum day one and get NK'd if that's the case, though.

This mostly seems like a setup of interest to the cop- when to claim, are the results accurate. I don't know if I'd want to be a townie in such a game.

[Empking]

Guilty OR alive

COP HEADSTART
2 mafia
5 Townies
1 Cop- sanity confirmed

And there's a 50/50 chance of the following options:
an un-nightkillable Survivor (scum can win with the Survivor alive, town cannot).
OR
an additional townie that's a miller (they are not told) and one member of the mafia is investigation-immune.


Now here's an interesting scenario: if there's a survivor, scum do not want to lynch the survivor, and yet town

does

. Then this adds WIFOM as to whether there's a survivor or not. At the same time,

if

there's a survivor, scum has to try to find

who

it is, so that they don't waste their night kill, and so that they don't lynch them.

Questions and problems:

1) Should mafia be told WHO the survivor is?
2) Should I change it so that town can win with the survivor? I didn't want to do this, because then survivor could easily claim, and then the cop will know hir results are reliable.
3) Can you think of a better name?

Just make him a NK-able traitor who doesn't count towards victory condition for scum.

1) No- then you basically have three mafia in a 7 person game.

8

[Max]

9 Players people.

[gorckat]

Whatever.

At 9 people, then, telling the Mafia who the Bulletproof Survivor is seems ok.

Setup still feels a little on the "blah" side.

BPS is a bit of a kingmaker who can't lose as long as he doesn't get lynched, which means he has to pay attention enough to hunt scum, but not so much that he actually finds them.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

2) Should I change it so that town can win with the survivor? I didn't want to do this, because then survivor could easily claim, and then the cop will know hir results are reliable.

I personally would. If you have problems with the survivor winning with the town, take it out of the setup.?

But if survivor wins with the town, survivor can claim, so then the cop knows his results are reliable, an exchange for never lynching the survivor. Of course this could be a very interesting gambit, what if mafia claim this role?

2) As written, if its survivor/townie after lynching the second scum, the survivor wins? Seems unfair to the town.

You're right, I need to change it.

Scum KNOW if there's a survivor or not, so they can claim survivor and sail to a win. The thing is that now, if the survivor actually claims, town won't know whether it's lying scum or not. WIFOM. Awesome!

[BridgesAndBaloons]

The new set up

Guilty OR alive

COP HEADSTART
2 mafia
5 Townies
1 Cop- sanity confirmed

And there's a 50/50 chance of the following options:
an un-nightkillable Survivor (Survivor can win with scum and survivor can win with town).
OR
an additional townie that's a miller (they are not told) and one member of the mafia is investigation-immune.


Now here's an interesting scenario: if there's a survivor, scum do not want to lynch the survivor, and yet town

does

. Then this adds WIFOM as to whether there's a survivor or not. At the same time,

if

there's a survivor, scum has to try to find

who

it is, so that they don't waste their night kill, and so that they don't lynch them.

Another idea is for the other setup, if there's no survivor, scum can claim survivor and coast to the end. However; the town knows this is a possibility, and so they must lynch a claimed survivor. This prevents the survivor from claiming!

[Adel]

I think this will fix it:

Tap Dance Multiball Mafia

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Line Tapper
1 Werewolf
1 Werewolf Line Tapper
2 Townie Line Tappers
2 Lovers, Group A
2 Lovers, Group B
2 Townies
Day Start

The Lover groups and scum groups can PM each other during the 72 hour pregame. During each night phase they can communicate only via a QT thread provided by the moderator.

Each Line Tapper can target one other player each day. If that player is in a group that has a QT thread, the line tapper gets a copy of the link, and can also post there (at night) if she feels like it.

Each line tapper can only use her ability successfully once per game.

[Stef]

*if he/she
*can only use

If a townie taps into the mafia QT would the mafia be informed?

[Adel]

only if the tapper posts in it.

[Goatrevolt]

I want to name that setup something like "Tap Dance"

[Adel]

"Tap Dance" is clearly better.

There are some problems with the setup -- there is the danger that the QT topics just wouldn't be used, and there is a danger of a scum player not quite understanding the setup until too late, and outing their team.

I'm considering enabling daytalking for all QT threads, and allowing scum players to exchange PMs during the pre-game.

[Max]

I forsee a problem, there are a number of "unique views" in the corner, so if they have fixed IP adresses they can tell when another person has logged in

[ortolan]

I think that problem is overruled by the fact it always seems to think there are about 15 unique views even when only two people have viewed it

[Max]

Simple, vow to post every time you even refresh it, and just post the number your view says.

And ort, it only applies if people actually have fixed IPs.

[Yosarian2]

"
There are some problems with the setup -- there is the danger that the QT topics just wouldn't be used, and there is a danger of a scum player not quite understanding the setup until too late, and outing their team.

(nods) I probably wouldn't feel the need to talk to a scumbuddy at all in that kind of open setup. Too high risk, too low reward.

Of course, if you have access to a quicktopic where there is no posting, you at least know the guy you targeted is scum. So perhaps the ideal play would be to write a "fake" quicktopic where you and your partner pretend to be masons, if you can pull that off.

Other then that, though, there's really no reason to discuss anything; perhaps a quick "You make the kill every night you're alive; if you're dead, I'll make the kill" post, but nothing else; anything else, any discussion about the thread at all of any type, is just way too high of a risk for little payoff, unless you're trying to run a "let's try and look like masons" gambit.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Simple, vow to post every time you even refresh it, and just post the number your view says.

And ort, it only applies if people actually have fixed IPs.

Yes, but scum have something to hide, and so they are the ones to care if someone is watching them. Masons wouldn't, so counting the number of unique views would be extremely scummy.

"Tap Dance" is clearly better.

There are some problems with the setup -- there is the danger that the QT topics just wouldn't be used, and there is a danger of a scum player not quite understanding the setup until too late, and outing their team.

possible solution:

Make both scum submit a night kill. The night kill is only valid if they both submit the same person. Give them pre-game to exchange pms for a bit, then they can create a code to show who to kill. If they make a bad code, they will be easily found out. It shouldn't be too hard to make a good code (ie any time a sentence ends with the letter a player's name that's in that sentence starts with, that's who I want to kill). Then they have to communicate, but then it would look really bad if they just said a couple names, so then they'd have to all out have a "mason-like" discussion.

question about setup:

if the line tapper gets a link to the quicktopic, then they get to see posts

before

they targeted. I don't like this.

My proposal:

each night the mason/scum group gets a new quicktopic to post in. If the line tapper successfully targets someone who talks, from then on, they get a message saying what the new link is.
Mod would have to be VERY careful to send the right link to the right people.

Benefits of my proposal: instead of scum exchanging pms pre-game to develop a code, they have all of night one since that is guranteed to be wire-tap free. Also, fits better with flavor.

Bad parts of my proposal: line-tapping doesn't work until the next night, and for a (potentially) three night game, this really delays the powers...

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I don't have time to run the numbers on this or follow this train of thought further, but isn't this a breaking strategy:

Both townies claim
1) If anyone counters:
a) if anyone counters, then the line tappers pick one of them (hopefully a different person)
b) Line tapper only claims if they had a quick-topic, and who else posted in that quick topic, easy lynch scum.
c) if no Line tapper says there's a quick topic, wait until the next night for the line tappers to try another of the "claimed vanillas." Again, they only claim the next day if they have a "guilty."
d) repeat until someone claims a guilty.
e) Lynch them. If lynch is wrong, the claimed line-tapper is scum.

Knowing the above information, it's bad play for the scum to counter, so,
Both townies claim
2) no scum counter.
= two instantly confirmed townies.

I didn't take into account night kills if there's a counter-claim, so that might be super accurate. Someone please verify if this is indeed a "breaking" strategy. "Breaking" in the sense that it gives town the advantage that is unbalanced.

[Adel]

I think this will fix it:

Tap Dance Multiball Mafia

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Line Tapper
1 Werewolf
1 Werewolf Line Tapper
2 Townie Line Tappers
2 Lovers, Group A
2 Lovers, Group B
2 Townies
Day Start

The Lover groups and scum groups can PM each other during the 72 hour pregame. During each night phase they can communicate only via a QT thread provided by the moderator.

Each Line Tapper can target one other player each day. If that player is in a group that has a QT thread, the line tapper gets a copy of the link, and can also post there (at night) if she feels like it.

Each line tapper can only use her ability successfully once per game.

I accidentally edited this instead of quoting it.. instead of "Line Tapper Mafia" it is now "Tap Dance Mafia" and the mason groups have been replaced by Lovers. I also changed the mod notes.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Even with the lovers, I think two townies claiming is the best strategy for town. Explain why it isn't please?