Open 148: Jungle Republic (Game over) before 800

[iamausername]

iamAusername.

[iamausername]

It's a common mistake.

[iamausername]

will be

forcably

replaced if i cannot send

her

a pm in this whole day (IRL)

Not to nitpick, or anything.

Maybe I've been lying about my gender this whole time. It happens, you know.

Also /confirm, obviously.

[iamausername]

EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. ITS CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE WITH THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS OR EVEN WHEN I MESS UP TECHNIQUE. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY’S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN. I SAY IT AND I SAY IT OUTLOUD EVERYDAY TO PEOPLE IN MY COLLEGE CLASS AND ALL THEY DO IS PROVE PEOPLE IN COLLEGE CLASS CAN STILL BE IMMATURE JERKS. AND IVE LEARNED ALL THE LINES AND IVE LEARNED HOW TO MAKE MYSELF AND MY APARTMENT LESS LONELY BY SHOUTING EM ALL. 2 HOURS INCLUDING WIND DOWN EVERY MORNING.

Vote: CJMiller

Im convinced, You are male. =D

[iamausername]

NOT SCUM!

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

He voted Sotty, but Sotty said she isn't scum.

Plus

[iamausername]

Pre-Vote for day 5: iamausername

Pre-OMGUS for D5: Tarballs.

More importantly, he seems a little too worried about the vote on him. (

There is only one, right?

... )

Not for long!

Prodding CjMiller

The scum are...

Khamisa,
Korejora,
Fallen Angel,
iamausername,
Caboose.

Um, I already claimed NOT scum. So did Caboose, and Korejora. Pay attention!

Unvote, Vote: fallen angel

This is a much better bandwagon.

[iamausername]

Ah, dammit.

Would you like to also try playing the game, perhaps?

[iamausername]

Need more from Caboose and Tarballs to form an opinion.

Has there been enough from CJ or Khamisa to form an opinion?

[iamausername]

I didn't see the page counter until after I posted and changing my vote based on what happened would seem scummy.

Fair enough.

Unvote

What part of that is 'fair enough'? Changing one's vote based on what happened is like, fundamental basics of how to play the game. No one is going to say that CJ is scummy for

changing his vote based on what happened

. That is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.

[iamausername]

Also, I will claim now.

WHY

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

WHY

[iamausername]

Can anyone explain the case on fallen angel? Was there even a case?

Waiting until after it's already occurred to decry the lynch means you're not actually interested in trying to prevent a town lynch, you just want to look good by not being part of it.

Vote: Khamisa

[iamausername]

People voting Khamisa: Reason?

Waiting until after it's already occurred to decry the lynch means you're not actually interested in trying to prevent a town lynch, you just want to look good by not being part of it.

[iamausername]

I'm going to say that at least two of the people on this lynch are scum.

There were six people on that lynch who are still alive. There are five townies left. If we take the assumption that you are one of them, which I assume you are claiming to be, that means only four left to have possibly been on that lynch, which would mean there would have to be at least two scum. So this isn't really a particularly bold statement, is it?

And, again, if you thought the case on fallen angel was so bad, why didn't you say anything about it yesterday, when it might have actually made a difference?

I'm reluctant to make a decision this early in the day with us at half to half odds with the scum.

Are you expecting the odds to get better later in the day?

[iamausername]

That's an annoying and unproductive question.

OK, let me reword; the odds are NOT going to get any better later in the day, so kindly refrain from using such fatalistic nonsense as an excuse to avoid doing anything useful. Is that better?

Considering the first reasoned vote for FA occured on the 25th, and her lynch was on the 28th, I didn't have much time.

If you had the time to make this post and this post, you had time to comment on the fallen angel wagon, you just chose not to.

Plus, due to the lack of reasoning, I figured FA's wagon was some sort of residue left from the random-voting stage, so I just left it alone.

So a player gets put to L-1 for

no reason whatsoever

, and you don't think that is worthy of comment? Really?

I expected more from this player list, but I guess I set my hopes too high.

[iamausername]

I'd claim to be mafia if I were mafia, but because I'm not, I figured that the way to get the best reactions was to claim werewolf.

I'd like some more detail on this. Why would a werewolf claim get more useful reactions than a mafia claim?

Shaken by FA being town, of course.

Thanks for letting us know!

While I endorse this vote, I am not confident in OGML being town, either. Something about yesterday bothers me.

I think you could probably be even vaguer here if you tried.

Switching targets. My memory might be mistaken, but it seems as if OGML has done this a good deal this game.

Changing one's vote based on what happened is like, fundamental basics of how to play the game. No one is going to say that CJ is scummy for changing his vote based on what happened. That is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.

I guess maybe I was wrong. About the second sentence, anyway. Third very much still applies.

I debate heavily with those suspicious of me in a great few walls of discussion, thereby contributing a great deal to the game and having the challenge of pressure on me.

I am certainly looking forward to the part where you start contributing a great deal to the game.

For some reason, I find this list incredibly suspicious.

I bet it's a really good one!

Vote: Mastin

[iamausername]

Mastin, what makes you think that scum can't daytalk in this game?

[iamausername]

As for Tarballs'

Secondly

, I think he's right. OGML and Mastin have both done this action (attacking by association), which makes it very likely that one of them is scum with Yos2 and are trying to get a mislynch. They then expect the mislynch (=not wolf) would then result in Yos2 being unlikely wolf. Thus, they would get +scumhunting point and their (whoever is the actual wolf) partner would be free for that day, ensuring the last mislynch needed to win.

What you are saying here is simultaneously "Mastin and Yos2 look like scum partners" and "OGML is scummy for suggesting that Mastin and Yos2 look like scum partners". Problematic.

See also: Wulfy keeps voting and unvoting Mastin, because he can't decide if Mastin is a lost cause that he needs to bus + Mastin declares Wulfy as the last mafia, which achieves all the benefits of distancing, without the setback of increasing the chance of losing his partner.

Calling Mastin/Wulfy as the wolf pair.

[iamausername]

(Note: I have a suspicion based upon This post about Iamausername [not saying which part, though], but will have to ask the mod if it's alright to say it. I'm kinda doubting I can, but it is something that makes me suspicious of Iamausername.)

You have a "suspicion" based on something you're not allowed to talk about, and that I therefore cannot possibly offer a defence against. How convenient.

Um, I already claimed NOT scum. So did Caboose, and Korejora. Pay attention!

Buddying up to two players, ignoring the other two who did it as well (Amongst them, Yosarian2, mind you).

If you don't snip out the Mastin quote from that post:

The scum are...

Khamisa,
Korejora,
Fallen Angel,
iamausername,
Caboose.

Um, I already claimed NOT scum. So did Caboose, and Korejora. Pay attention!

it becomes incredibly obvious WHY I mentioned Caboose and Kore but not Yos or Sotty. I can't believe you could possibly have missed that, so I have to assume you're just trying to hoodwink people who won't go back to find the context of that post into believing that there is actually some basis to your Yos/iam scumpair theory.

P.S. Look, no mention of Wulfy in that scumlist!

This post seemed completely unnecessary. And seemed to be an overreaction, at that.

Overreaction from Iamausername to the claim

Me showing utter disdain for CJMiller is not 'unnecessary' or an 'overreaction', because CJMiller FUCKING SUCKS. I hope he gets EATEN BY A SHARK.

WOOT! HELLZ YEA!

I joined this game in the 11th slot out of 12 because I thought it had a really good player list. Then goddamn CJMiller took the last slot. That pissed me off. Then he claims, making it clear that the mafia gods have deigned to give the only power role town has to the world's greatest fuckwit. I think my irritation is understandable, in the circumstances.

The first post was definitely not unnecessary, because I know from experience that if CJMiller is not cajoled into playing the game, CJMiller WILL NOT play the game.

My "overreaction" stems from some very small and probably futile hope that CJMiller is actually capable of learning. If I am able to get across to him that claiming seer for no reason in an open game where it is known that no other power roles exist is really, really dumb, perhaps others will not have to deal with that stupidity in the future. It was not an

over

reaction, because any lesser reaction would certainly have no hope of getting that message through that neanderthall skull into the mushy peas that he calls a brain. It was the necessary amount of reaction.

(Here is my previous experience of CJMiller, FYI. He sucks and I am never going to play another game with him. If he signs up for a game I have I already signed up for, I will politely ask the mod to decline him entry because he sucks, and if the mod does not do so, I will drop out of the game myself.)

Iamausername shows up and votes for me for, essentially, not contributing.

That's not the only reason I voted you. It was part of it, certainly, but these points:

Shaken by FA being town, of course.

Thanks for letting us know!

While I endorse this vote, I am not confident in OGML being town, either. Something about yesterday bothers me.

I think you could probably be even vaguer here if you tried.

Switching targets. My memory might be mistaken, but it seems as if OGML has done this a good deal this game.

Changing one's vote based on what happened is like, fundamental basics of how to play the game. No one is going to say that CJ is scummy for changing his vote based on what happened. That is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.

I guess maybe I was wrong. About the second sentence, anyway. Third very much still applies.

are not about non-contribution, they are about

scummy

contribution.

First point; the old "I'm so sad/glad that we lynched town/scum" tell that scum

still

do, no matter how many times they've seen people say it is a scumtell.

Second point; this kind of vagueness, much like the "I have a reason that I'm not allowed to talk about" above, casts suspicion on a player in a way that they cannot possibly defend against. What is it about OGML's play yesterday that bothers you? You don't get to avoid elaborating on that just because you've decided to drop him as a target.

Third point, part one; Changing targets is not a scumtell. Not now, not ever. Changing targets for

bad reasons

, that could be a scumtell. But the act of changing targets, in itself, is entirely neutral.

Third point, part two; Your memory should not be mistaken. In forum mafia, you don't have to rely on memory because all the posts are still RIGHT THERE. Saying "my memory might be mistaken" is just an excuse to weasel out of responsibility for your actions.

---

Something I just noticed:

Mod: Are the WOLVES able to communicate in private during the day?

[iamausername]

Also, I want to hear more of what Caboose and Tarballs have to say about recent events.

[iamausername]

The fact that he posted after I complained that we needed to hear more from him is *EXACTALLY WHAT I WANT TO HAPPEN WHEN I DRAW ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT SOMEONE IS LURKING.* At least half the time, lurkers are still reading the game, they're just being quiet; usually if you point out that they're lurking, they show up.

Wow, it really does work.

[iamausername]

Ugh game stall.

I think everyone's waiting for Mastin to say it's OK to hammer him.

[iamausername]

Maybe I should have put strikethrough tags on "Mastin to say it's OK to hammer him". I'm not sure the point is clear enough as is.

Ah well.

[iamausername]

I just realised that Mastin keeps stalling by saying "we're still a while from deadline", but I can't actually find any mention of a deadline anywhere in the mod's posts.

I think everyone's waiting for

Mastin to say it's OK to hammer him.

^ even more accurate than I thought.

[iamausername]

That is weird, because there is absolutely no benefit to the wolves in doing that. If we lynch town today, we can still win, which would not be the case if they'd made a kill (It would require them to kill the last mafia member for us in one of the next two nights, but still, it's lowered their chances of victory significantly). That makes me think that they didn't no kill intentionally, but missed their kill by mistake.

Looking through post histories between the 26th and the 30th, there are three players here who seem at all likely to have been too busy to make a kill. Yos hasn't made a post on site since the 24th because of his Beach Bash. Tarballs made no posts on site during the night until ~5 hours before daybreak. Caboose has set up a game he's modding over the course of a couple of days, but clearly hasn't had a lot of time to get on the site for a while now.

Also, even before I knew about the lack of a night kill, OGML and Wulfy were lowest on my list of potential wolves. OGML has given me a pro-town read all game, and my entire case on Wulfy was completely dependent on Mastin flipping wolf, which of course he didn't. I can't really see anyone else as Wulfy's partner. Sotty's the only one I'm semi-clearing with this that I had down as much of a suspect anyway.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure our wolves are in {Yos, Caboose, Tarballs}, and I'll be rereading the thread to take a close look at their interactions.

[iamausername]

Seeing that Fallen Angel only registered about 2 months ago and has only completed two games, as far as I can see from his signature, I would expect there to still be some inconsistency in his playing between different games.

That being said, even though FA's behaviour has deserved some votes, I'm not too comfortable with the rapid speed of his wagon. Especially this:

FoS: Mastin

for stalling an FA lynch

Unvote, Vote: Fallen Angel

is really unnecessary. There are people whose opinions we haven't heard yet and there's absolutely no reason to end this day yet. Even if FA were to be lynched, and even if he did flip scum, there is still more information to be found today.

Tarballs was clearly perfectly happy to see FA lynched, but thought he could gain some town cred by saying "woah, slow down, guys".

First of all, there's no one here who knew FA was town. Werewolves may have thought he was mafia, and mafia may have thought he was a werewolf. I had a newb town read of FA, so him flipping town didn't surprise me as much as it seems to have surprised some of you.

On D1, Tarballs says "FA's behaviour has deserved some votes". On D2, Tarballs "had a newb town read of FA". Anyone else seeing a problem here?

Kore, why is agreeing with someone else's reasoning scummy? Must everyone joining a wagon find something new and interesting to nitpick about?

My thoughts exactly. People get accused of that way too much, generally speaking.

I think

Khamisa's wagon is a lot better than FA's wagon yesterday

- and I'm not saying it just because two dead townies obviously improve the chances of lynching scum today. But I'd like to at least hear Mastin's thoughts before anyone hammers, because he's only posted once during day 2, and

his case on Khamisa wasn't a very strong one.

OGML already pointed this out earlier, but yeah, there is some definite inconsistency here.

My picks for the third mafia are Sotty7 and Caboose. It has to be one of them, but I'll need to reread to be totally sure. I'm agreeing with Mastin that we need to focus on the wolves - that would be the case even if a townie had been killed last night - so I'm not going lynch a mafioso claim today. Let the wolf(es) kill the last maf next night, if they can/want.

So, Tarballs says "we need to focus on the wolves"; perfectly true. The wolves were (and still are) the bigger threat. And yet, in this post he offers two candidates for the third mafia, and makes no attempt to actually find the wolves that he says we should be focussing on. What's up with that?

Now, if I could finally stop this near-useless arguing with my mafia suspects, I'd like to actually hunt some wolves.

Yeah, no one was stopping you but you.

Your case against Yos is a lot better, but I'm not totally convinced by it either.

This is pretty emblematic of his response to the Yos/Mastin fight; fence sitting, fence sitting, more fence-sitting. If neither Yos or Mastin are wolf, the wolves would obviously want to leave themselves open to spend today going after whichever one didn't get lynched yesterday. Which is pretty much what Tarballs was doing, I think.

---

HERE IS A SUMMARY, BECAUSE MASTIN HATES THOSE:

1) Huge inconsistency in his opinion on fallen angel.
2) Another incosistency as to whether people should have to provide their own reasoning to join a bandwagon.
3) Spent D3 repeatedly saying "need to hunt us some wolves", but

at no point actually did anything about it

.
4) Carefully avoided taking a side in the Yos/Mastin bust-up.

Vote: Tarballs

[iamausername]

*Wonders how to ask for a replacement*

This thread is the one you want.

one of em be scum since there isn't a quick lynch yet...

Nope, not lylo today. (Would have been if the wolves had made a kill, though).

Hm...why would tarballs fit that? Sotty, UN?

Like I said, check his post history. His last post in this game on D3 was also his last post on site until ~5 hours before the night ended.

[iamausername]

Nope, not lylo today.

Been working through the numbers to see exactly how much lylo we're not in, and there's something I've noticed that I want to get out there now, just in case. It might not turn out to be important, but there's no reason not to point it out, as far as I can see:

If a day starts with one mafia, one townie and one werewolf, THE MAFIA WIN

.

Also, if a day starts with one mafia, NO townies and one werewolf, THE MAFIA WIN

. (See: wiki page for this setup)

The reason why I want to bring this to everyone's attention? This means that

IF WE LYNCH ONE WOLF, THE OTHER WOLF MUST KILL THE MAFIA TO WIN

. Normally, giving advice to scum is a bad idea, but making sure the wolves know this benefits us just as much as it benefits the wolves; if we lynch another townie, we're gonna have to rely on wolf killing mafia to have a chance. I just want to make sure they'll know that they have every reason to do that for us.

---

In other news, I'd be perfectly willing to lynch Caboose today too, because

both

wolves had to miss the kill, and I don't see Yos being Tar's partner, which pretty much process of eliminates it down to being Caboose.

Also, OGML needs to say something.

[iamausername]

Vote: Tarballs

me, Sotty, Wulfy, Hero. I do believe that is a hammer.

[iamausername]

Yosarian

Hero is the common denominator of all the wolf teams that I think make sense. Still pretty much sure that

iamausername

Wulfy is town. Gonna re read.

[iamausername]

Yosarian

Hero is the common denominator of all the wolf teams that I think make sense. Still pretty much sure that

iamausername

Wulfy is town. Gonna re read.

Is that your opinion, or are you being argumentative on OGML's positions?

My opinion.

Hero, who is Yos's partner?
Yos, who is Hero's partner?

[iamausername]

I'm fairly confident in a OGML/Yos2 scum pair atm.

One more thing to note: This even fits with Yos2's theory about scum not caring enough to send in a night kill. Yos2 was absent, and OGML certainly shows a lack of care for this game. So this could easily be considered a scumslip on Yos's part.

I like how you've spent so much time arguing that we can't possibly have any idea why the wolves didn't kill anyone on N3, then you go ahead and use this as a point in your case anyway.

---

Yos, do you have any particular points against Wulfy, or is it just process of elimination because you think me and OGML are town?

OGML, you've been saying for a pretty large portion of the game that you are very sure that Yos is scum, but you've never really explained why. Could you please do so now?

[iamausername]

I think it is considerably less likely than either a Hero/Yos scumteam or a Hero/OGML scumteam, and slightly less likely than a Yos/Wulfy scumteam or a Hero/Wulfy scumteam.

[iamausername]

OGML has voted for Caboose twice in the game. The first came on day one, when fallen angel was already at 4 votes, and was discarded a day later in order to join the fallen angel wagon. The second came on day three, and was discarded

ten minutes

later, before anyone else had even had time to respond to it. Do either of these votes provide any actual threat to Caboose whatsoever? No.

Besides that, mentions of Caboose from OGML have pretty much all been "oh yeah, this guy is scummy too" tacked on as an afterthought to lists of the players he's actually been trying to lynch.

Am I the only one seeing that as pretty likely behaviour for Caboose/Hero's partner?

[iamausername]

Really, everyone reading this game now should be completly confident that either I am town and Hero is scum, or that me and hero are both scum. There are no other possibilities; Hero simply must be scum here. So can we please just lynch him already?

I'm absolutely convident that he's scum, but I'm not ready to lynch him until I'm satisfied that you and Wulfy are actually giving serious consideration to the possibility that OGML is his partner.

[iamausername]

I'm just noting that I have the opportunity to hammer Hero right now, and am not taking it, because Mastin was WRONG.

Everybody seems to have figured that out already, but I just wanted to confirm it 100%. I'm probably going to go ahead and hammer fairly soon anyway, just going to make sure there's nothing else I need to say before my inevitable death tonight.

[iamausername]

You still haven't explained the origional scumtell that I noticed, which was why, exactally, you were "100%" sure that "either hero or yos is scum". If I was in your position, and I was town, I would have been at least a little worried about the possibility that me and hero were both town fighting each other, especally since I hadn't voted him yet. The fact you weren't at all concerned about that possibility seems like a huge scum tell to me.

So, yeah, Yos, do please realise that all this means is that Wulfy was sure that the scumteam was not OGML/username, which is something that you yourself have more or less been saying all day. Yes, he can't really be

100% certain

as town, but it's just a little bit of hyperbole. Townies do that all the time.

Just, everybody take your time and get it right tomorrow. That's all I really want to say.

Vote: Hero