[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Saunt Adelaus]

think about it: who do the scum want to kill the most? How do you know that no scum and no town Line trapper will also claim townie?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I'd say scum want to kill the other scum the most, followed by the lover's. I think that there is absolutely no pro-town reason for a line-tapper to claim vanilla, or for a lover. Well, there are pro-town reasons, but lying in this circumstance is far more anti-town.

Two townies claiming narrows down the suspect pool of possible lovers, but I think the advantages outweigh the positives. If no scum counter-claims, scum also have a higher chance of hitting other scum, and there's two confirmed townies to work with. The scum may actually be forced to night kill one of them in order to prevent an automatic loss as the numbers dwindle. I think Day 3 a massclaim would happen, with hurts scum a lot (if both members of the team aren't alive, the person alive is forced to claim phone tapper).

if scum counter claim, it's even

better

for town. Now there's a narrowed down list of suspects that the line-tappers (or mafia line tapper) can use to find scum.

question: do scum have to use their real names in the quick topic?

if so, you can find BOTH scum on a team with a single wire-tapping.

I think the game is still balanced with this, but I think it's the best move for the town. Now, I'm not sure whether it makes more sense to claim in the beginning of the day, or have all vanillas claim just before the lynch.

[Adel]

Under the current meta, I think the town is usually pretty weak in open games. Massclaims don't happen nearly as often as they used to, and I think that running an effective massclaim isn't a common skill right now.

[The Fonz]

D(dethy)9

2 scum
four townies
3 cops, each of whom have equal chance of being sane, insane, naive, or paranoid, and whose probabilities are independent.

[Elephant Hell]

Cowardly Mafia

2 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
9 Townies
Daystart

Whilst the Vigilante is alive, the Mafia can't kill but can roleblock (the ability is shared like a regular nightkill). When the Vigilante dies they can kill again but can't block (not that they'd want to). In other words the Vig functions as a public Cop of sorts whilst alive (but people can be 'framed' by the blocking) and the game is a regular 2v10 once the Vig dies. Not sure if this situation is normal though.

[skitzer]

Whoa, Back It Up!

4 Mafia
1 Cop
3 Backups
4 Townies

This is an interesting mechanic I thought of, not sure if it is balanced though. See, if the Cop claims, the Mafia doesn't want to shoot them because then they would have 3 Cops. That's really all I have to expand upon it but I thought another interesting thing would to make the sanity of the cop questionable; for instance, make him Insane 75% of the time and Sane 25%. That would throw a whole level of WIFOM for the Mafia.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Whoa, Back It Up!

4 Mafia
1 Cop
3 Backups
4 Townies

This is an interesting mechanic I thought of, not sure if it is balanced though. See, if the Cop claims, the Mafia doesn't want to shoot them because then they would have 3 Cops. That's really all I have to expand upon it but I thought another interesting thing would to make the sanity of the cop questionable; for instance, make him Insane 75% of the time and Sane 25%. That would throw a whole level of WIFOM for the Mafia.

Insane is still very useful.

But this setup is broken if all three backups take on the same sanity (either sane or insane) from the cop. Claim cop day 1, lynch cop, then have 3 cops left to quickly confirm half of the town. Have them claim their results after a a few days, and the game is probably over.

To fix this, have the first cop a 50% of being sane or insane. Then have two of the backups become the same alignment as the dead cop, and the third one is either paranoid/naive (decided before the game starts, obviously).

However, I personally don't like this setup, and the idea of having two cops alive after one dies still seems unbalanced.

[Empking]

Normal Not Normal Dethy

2 Scum
4 Day Cops (Naive, Paranoid, Insane, Sane)

Nightless

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Cowardly Mafia

2 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
9 Townies
Daystart

Whilst the Vigilante is alive, the Mafia can't kill but can roleblock (the ability is shared like a regular nightkill). When the Vigilante dies they can kill again but can't block (not that they'd want to). In other words the Vig functions as a public Cop of sorts whilst alive (but people can be 'framed' by the blocking) and the game is a regular 2v10 once the Vig dies. Not sure if this situation is normal though.

At first I didn't see the bulletproof and was going to go on a rant about how broken this was.

I like this setup; however, I think this will happen day 1.

Vig claims
1)if not-counterclaimed, then have him be alive as a confirmed townie the whole game and never lynch him. Then it becomes a game of 10:2 nightless with a confirmed townie.
2)if counterclaimed, lynch both people and the game becomes a 1:9 or a 1:7 game.

Can this be prevented?

[Crazy]

Cowardly Mafia

2 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
9 Townies
Daystart

Whilst the Vigilante is alive, the Mafia can't kill but can roleblock (the ability is shared like a regular nightkill). When the Vigilante dies they can kill again but can't block (not that they'd want to). In other words the Vig functions as a public Cop of sorts whilst alive (but people can be 'framed' by the blocking) and the game is a regular 2v10 once the Vig dies. Not sure if this situation is normal though.

At first I didn't see the bulletproof and was going to go on a rant about how broken this was.

I like this setup; however, I think this will happen day 1.

Vig claims
1)if not-counterclaimed, then have him be alive as a confirmed townie the whole game and never lynch him. Then it becomes a game of 10:2 nightless with a confirmed townie.
2)if counterclaimed, lynch both people and the game becomes a 1:9 or a 1:7 game.

Can this be prevented?

What if the scum had the abilities to kill and roleblock from the start?

[Elephant Hell]

The Vig is Compulsive, so they have to kill every night. If they claim and aren't counterclaimed then the town has a confirmed townie, but someone will still die each night (unless the Vig targets a Mafioso or, more likely given that they've revealed themselves, targets a Townie and is roleblocked, creating the illusion of them having targeted a Mafioso). Effectively the game will never be nightless, because as long as the Vig or at least one Mafioso is alive someone can nightkill.

Alternatively the scum could get both abilities from the start, as Crazy suggested.

[Empking]

Cowardly Mafia

2 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
9 Townies
Daystart

Whilst the Vigilante is alive, the Mafia can't kill but can roleblock (the ability is shared like a regular nightkill). When the Vigilante dies they can kill again but can't block (not that they'd want to). In other words the Vig functions as a public Cop of sorts whilst alive (but people can be 'framed' by the blocking) and the game is a regular 2v10 once the Vig dies. Not sure if this situation is normal though.

At first I didn't see the bulletproof and was going to go on a rant about how broken this was.

I like this setup; however, I think this will happen day 1.

Vig claims
1)if not-counterclaimed, then have him be alive as a confirmed townie the whole game and never lynch him. Then it becomes a game of 10:2 nightless with a confirmed townie.
2)if counterclaimed, lynch both people and the game becomes a 1:9 or a 1:7 game.

Can this be prevented?

What if the scum had the abilities to kill and roleblock from the start?

Yeah, its a good set up with that idea.

[Elephant Hell]

Cowardly Mafia v2

2 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
9 Townies
Daystart

Mafia have a shared roleblock ability. If one dies, the other may both roleblock and kill in the same night.

Non-setup-editing edit: If the Mafia can kill from the start, should the Vig be Compulsive or just a regular Vig? The aim with making the Vig Compulsive was that there would always be a nightkill (except under certain conditions), but I think that 2 nightkills on most nights would be unbalanced in the Mafia's favour.

[Korts]

Line Tapper Smalltown

4 pairs of Neigbours
1 Line Tapper

2:7 Smalltown
Daystart

Line Tapper sees full QT.

[Crazy]

Non-setup-editing edit: If the Mafia can kill from the start, should the Vig be Compulsive or just a regular Vig? The aim with making the Vig Compulsive was that there would always be a nightkill (except under certain conditions), but I think that 2 nightkills on most nights would be unbalanced in the Mafia's favour.

I think it's pretty balanced that way... the vig kills are actually a pro-town thing, considering that the vig will be trying to target people that are actually scummy.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Cowardly Mafia v2

2 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
9 Townies
Daystart

Mafia have a shared roleblock ability. If one dies, the other may both roleblock and kill in the same night.

Non-setup-editing edit: If the Mafia can kill from the start, should the Vig be Compulsive or just a regular Vig? The aim with making the Vig Compulsive was that there would always be a nightkill (except under certain conditions), but I think that 2 nightkills on most nights would be unbalanced in the Mafia's favour.

Hm, Scum can now win after 2 mislynches
2:10
townie mislyched and vig hits wrong
2:7
townie mislynch and vig hits wrong
2:4

Then again, town can win with two correct lynches.
. . .
I think it was more balanced in the previous version. I forgot that the vig wasn't compulsive, but the best strategy in that setup still would be vig claim. Then the town could vote for the night kill, and it'd be like two lynches a day. If someone isn't killed, town mostly ignores the WIFOM and just focuses on scum-hunting as if it was nightless.

Maybe to change it, give the scum a bus driving ability? Or a one-shot kill?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

[size=0]oops I accidentally posted the same post twice![/size]

[ortolan]

I think it's pretty balanced that way... the vig kills are actually a pro-town thing, considering that the vig will be trying to target people that are actually scummy.

Yer exactly, you're either removing townies who are probably lynch bait anyway, or getting a confirmation that someone is scum.

[Elephant Hell]

Hm, Scum can now win after 2 mislynches

Yeah, that's what I was worried about, although it's 3 mislynches and the Vig has to mistarget each time (whilst not being killed by the Mafia). The Vig could actually keep targeting the same person if their nightkill isn't successful to avoid killing townies/to confirm the Bulletproof-ness of their target (unless the Mafia roleblocks again). However, I think you're right in that the original idea would work better if the scum had a shared Bus Driving ability. If the Vig claims and the town uses their kill as another lynch the scum get the Vig to kill themself. Works better than the roleblock and stops the Vig from claiming too hastily (of course, the Vig could still claim and not let the town decide on their target).
---

Cowardly Mafia v3

2 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
9 Townies
Daystart

Mafia has a shared Bus Driving ability, but no nightkill ability until the Compulsive Vigilante dies, at which point they gain a nightkill ability but lose the Bus Driving ability.
---
Alternatively, what if the Mafia have a kill right from the start but it's only successful on the Vig until the Vig is dead? However, maybe that's not normal enough for an Open game.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Two quick changes:

Mafia also have a shared "gun inspecting" ability. This is better than a having a night kill that only kills the vig, because once they find the vig, they have to lynch her, but

in a discrete way

. Otherwise they'd be expected as trying to kill the vig.

Also, there's no need for mafia to lose the bus driving ability was vig is dead since the bus driving ability would have no use then. So, get rid of that part.

[Elephant Hell]

If the Vig gets close to being lynched they'll probably claim, so I don't think the Gunsmith ability would be too helpful (unless the goal is for them to find the Vig and then predict their target, killing the Vig by Bus Driving them and their target).

Basically there has to be some kind of disincentive for the town to lynch the Vig straight off. Giving the Mafia the nightkill works out, so I think that v4 (v3 without the Bus Drive ability loss) is roughly balanced, but there might be a better way to do it. Another option would be to increase the number of Mafiosi to 3 but don't ever give them a nightkill, but then there's no reason for the Vig not to claim and get lynched as soon as possible.

Cowardly Mafia v4

2 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
9 Townies

The Mafiosi have a shared Bus Drive ability rather than a nightkill, but gain a nightkill ability on the night after the Compulsive Vigilante dies.

Non-setup-editing edit: Innocents to Townies, no real change.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

I personally like the complexity a mafia gunsmith ability brings to the game, (and I think it balances it a bit more) but I'm willing to nominate it with or without the mafia gunsmith.

Nominate Cowardly Mafia v4

[Elephant Hell]

I guess the purpose of the Gunsmith would be to push to Vig towards a lynch so that they claim and can

then

be killed by Bus Driving them and their target, but I think that the Vig is bound to claim at some point, being the only power role in a game with no Mafia nightkills whilst they're alive. Either they'll claim day 1, claim when their target doesn't die or claim when they're near to lynch (or at least, that's what I predict, which might not actually be true).

[Simenon]

Elegant PYP

1 Mafia Goon
2 Mafia Roleblockers
1 Cop
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
6 Townies

Scum at the beginning of the game choose which town powerrole gets a role-block immunity.

[Simenon]

Murder Suicide Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
2 Mafia Traitors
1 Cop
7 Townies

Traitors lose if both goons are lynched.
Traitors know their scumgroup, but the goons don't know the traitors.