Neon Genesis Orca Title Fairy: Dance Like You Want to Win!

[Korts]

A) If I don't explicitly state that the title is insulting, I will be stuck with it.

B) No. I would prefer a more witty title, like Walking Counterpoint.

It doesn't matter what you would prefer, since you aren't a constructive member of the community. You either take what you can, or learn to live with your stock title until you become an important enough member of the community that people will give you title nominations that are not attempts at getting a rise out of you.

And Banned would fit a couple other people far more than you.

[ChannelDelibird]

ITT Korts articulates what I really mean.

[populartajo]

What happened with FaerieLord?

[animorpherv1]

I have no idea.

[Thok]

1. CJMiller isn't getting a title at this time, as he hasn't really done anything to warrant it. Don't feel bad, lots of people with many more posts than you also don't have a title. Go do something interesting in a mafia game and make friends with other mafia players, and they'll nominate you for a title.

2. The last couple of pages (everything from about post 1617 on) are IMHO,

exactly

what mith is talking about when he's asking people to stop trolling. It was enough to say that CJMiller wasn't getting a title; there wasn't a need to keep pushing his buttons after that happened.

(Before 1617 it was mostly civil with an obvious joke. Once CJMiller reacted poorly to being called Bi, there wasn't a need to keep bringing that up.)

3. There are better places to discuss what happened to FL than this thread; talk about bans or Anix's Awesome Thread would be more relevant.

[Mr. Flay]

Nominate CJMiller for

Yes, I mean 1 giant blank space

Second

.

I'm ignoring the rest; opinions about CJMiller's opinions should go to mith by PM, not stirred up in public threads.

[Thestatusquo]

Nominate CJMILLER for "YOU HAVE BEEN LOGGED"

[Korts]

Nominate CJMILLER for "YOU HAVE BEEN LOGGED"

second

[FaerieLord]

Thirded

[Thok]

Thok, with all due respect, I feel this is important enough to go over your head if you don't alert CJMiller's offensive Homophobia to mith by COB tomorrow. I'm sorry, its just the way I feel.

You should not make any post, or start any thread, with the intention of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other user on this site.

CJMiller didn't have the intention of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other users for being gay, but was rather reacting to a vaguely perceived attack on his own sexuality and self-image. If you can show me any users CJMiller was specifically intending to call out, then there's a complaint. I don't actually see any such users; he was only deriding the use of the word gay to describe him.

I consider it the equivalent of jokingly giving Oman the title "New Zealand boy" and having him freak out because he's Australian and not from New Zealand and then claiming to be insulted that people want to claim that he's from New Zealand.

(Perhaps a better hypothetical example would be trying to assign the word "Virgin" to a user who's annoyed that people try to give him that title.)

Yeah, CJMiller's response was either not particularly enlightened or not particularly well-worded. And mith may feel free to overrule me. But in my reading of the rules, CJMiller didn't actually break them.

[populartajo]

Nominate Thok for Bi.

[Korts]

ITT tajo fails at comedy.

[Thok]

ITT tajo fails at comedy.

I laughed.

Also, I've sent a PM to mith, so he'll be taking a look at it.

[mith]

Split those posts out. That's all for now (but a few of you are on very thin ice).

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Thok, with all due respect, I feel this is important enough to go over your head if you don't alert CJMiller's offensive Homophobia to mith by COB tomorrow. I'm sorry, its just the way I feel.

You should not make any post, or start any thread, with the intention of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other user on this site.

CJMiller didn't have the intention of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other users for being gay, but was rather reacting to a vaguely perceived attack on his own sexuality and self-image. If you can show me any users CJMiller was specifically intending to call out, then there's a complaint. I don't actually see any such users; he was only deriding the use of the word gay to describe him.

I consider it the equivalent of jokingly giving Oman the title "New Zealand boy" and having him freak out because he's Australian and not from New Zealand and then claiming to be insulted that people want to claim that he's from New Zealand.

(Perhaps a better hypothetical example would be trying to assign the word "Virgin" to a user who's annoyed that people try to give him that title.)

Yeah, CJMiller's response was either not particularly enlightened or not particularly well-worded. And mith may feel free to overrule me. But in my reading of the rules, CJMiller didn't actually break them.

Wait, so the rule is all about intent? So, like if I say something that someone perceives as offensive, but my intent wasn't to be offensive, I'm good?

[Oman]

Firstly: Thok thanks for PMing mith, I accept that it sucks to do that, but I appreciate it

Thok, with all due respect, I feel this is important enough to go over your head if you don't alert CJMiller's offensive Homophobia to mith by COB tomorrow. I'm sorry, its just the way I feel.

You should not make any post, or start any thread, with the intention of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other user on this site.

CJMiller didn't have the intention of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other users for being gay, but was rather reacting to a vaguely perceived attack on his own sexuality and self-image. If you can show me any users CJMiller was specifically intending to call out, then there's a complaint. I don't actually see any such users; he was only deriding the use of the word gay to describe him.

Sorry, but he doesn't have to have been targeting one person to offend people, in fact, I'd say that offending

an entire sub-group

would be much worse. Don't you understand, even if keep it within confines of this site (which is a little eh on my part, because I feel we should look at the big-picture perspective of homophobia), it is still an offensive comment to scream "NO! YOU CAN'T SAY I'M GAY" like it's something to be ashamed/disgusted about.

Whether or not Shea took offense isn't the point. The point is that I am tired of numerous threads on this site devolving into insult-wars.

Look at this, whether or not a single person takes offence isn't the point. The point is it was an insult (i.e. that being homosexual/bisexual is something to be angered/ashamed of).

Lots of you can trade insults all day and don't take offense. I get that. The problems come when those same users forget that not everyone has the same level of thick-skinned-ness, and when new users see the flames and think that it's SOP.

YOU might be thick-skinned enough to not worry about some guy offending your ethnic or cultural group, but remember that

not everyone is the same as you.

And we certainly don't want new users to see homophobia and think its SOP, on this site or anywhere!

Cayke's comment was over the line, IMO. I would have taken offense, had it been directed at me.

I would have taken offence, had it been directed at me or my sub-group, and if that is good enough for the last three people to get banned for less explosive, less lengthy, outbursts, aimed at less people, and offending less, then it should damn well be enough here! I don't know Thok, but if we're trying to make MS a better place, the least you could do is keep these kinds of slurs out.

And Hell, not that it matters, but (with respect) mith is included. How the hell does CJ walk away from that? This is disgusting. Again, with all respect due, this is the most biased I've ever seen you, and it really is disgusting.

[Thok]

Look at this, whether or not a single person takes offence isn't the point. The point is it was an insult (i.e. that being homosexual/bisexual is something to be angered/ashamed of).

As I interpret this rule, what it's trying to prevent is the following statement.

Person A: "Person B is an <insert offensive term here>."

It doesn't matter how Person B reacts, but there needs to be a Person B that can react to it and there's no reading of CJMiller's post that has such a Person B. It's all about him being insulted by other people's comments, not him trying to insult others.

(Note that there can be multiple people in person B; statement like "Gay suck" would apply to every gay on the site.)

There's a distinction between saying "Being gay is an insult" and "I find it insulting when other people call me gay because I feel it misrepresents me." Neither is a particularly enlightened view, but the second one is more a statement about personal identity than gays in general.

[Porochaz]

If I were to nominate CJMillar for anything it would be

/in to mod

but I dont particularly think its worth giving him a title yet.

[Oman]

Look at this, whether or not a single person takes offence isn't the point. The point is it was an insult (i.e. that being homosexual/bisexual is something to be angered/ashamed of).

As I interpret this rule, what it's trying to prevent is the following statement.

Person A: "Person B is an <insert offensive term here>."

It doesn't matter how Person B reacts, but there needs to be a Person B that can react to it and there's no reading of CJMiller's post that has such a Person B. It's all about him being insulted by other people's comments, not him trying to insult others.

(Note that there can be multiple people in person B; statement like "Gay suck" would apply to every gay on the site.)

There's a distinction between saying "Being gay is an insult" and "I find it insulting when other people call me gay because I feel it misrepresents me." Neither is a particularly enlightened view, but the second one is more a statement about personal identity than gays in general.

I'm glad I don't have that point of view, but I feel it would misrepresent me as a pedantic idiot (see what that does?).

So you're saying so long as you phrase your insult right, so that you insult a

quality

rather than an

entity

that

is preferable to lightheartedly and jokingly calling someone a name.

I'll use the same joke again, becasue the point needs to be made:

Wow, I'm

really

glad I have my point of view so that people don't think that I'm a weak-willed tool that is just trying to avoid confrontation by being a pedant.

[BrutalAsstating]

I fear Oman might be getting a timeout too

But I agree with him.

[dramonic]

Noes, I don't want Oman to get a timeout

His manner of speech may be a bit direct, but I think it's admirable to be defending the minorities like that, especially considering not all gays are confortable with themselves.

[Thok]

If a user had been nominated for the title "Straight" and he responded "I'm insulted that people would call me straight! I like men! Calling me straight is an insult!", I'd be defending user's right to make that statement and I'd be annoyed by people who seconded and thirded him for the title "Straight" or offered up the title "Nate Straight" as an alternative once he already said he was insulted by the original title. I don't think anybody would be claiming that user is heterophobic in that scenario. I would be OK with people who politely asked user why being called Straight is an insult and tried to talk calmly with him and assure him he's not getting either title.

(I realize that there are cultural reasons why the two scenarios aren't symmetrical [specifically that people have never very rarely straight as an insult and have commonly used gay as an insult.])

Editted at a request of a user.

[Goatrevolt]

I think Oman is completely wrong. Korts telling CJ that he's not a constructive member of the community is 100 times more of an insult that CJ saying he's not gay and doesn't want to be labeled as such. I have no problem with what Korts said (or CJ), but the fact that Korts making his comment is applauded as people attack CJ for a comment that isn't even offensive just proves the complete bias in this scenario.

I'm not gay. I don't want to be labeled as gay. I'm also not a woman and don't want to be labeled as a woman. I'm also not a swimmer and don't want to be labeled as such. People are making an issue out of something that isn't an issue.

If someone who wasn't a person people already disliked for other reasons had made the comment CJ made, I guarantee he would not have been attacked for it.

He was nominated for a title he didn't want and the nomination of the title was meant as an offense, yet him saying he doesn't want it is apparently more offensive? Weird how that works. The fact that you are trying to get him in trouble for declining a title that was meant to offend him in the first place is pretty absurd. And Oman thinks things are biased

against

him?

[FaerieLord]

Oh Goat, you can be such a swimmer sometimes

[Cybele]

I guess I better get my Free FL avatar back out...