Mafia 97 - Day Night Mafia, Game Over

[MafiaSSK]

Kise is tomorrows lynch if BC is town.

---

Vote Count:

Scott Brosius(1)

- Sando

saberwolf(3)

- Platypus_Dude, Kise, Scott Brosius

Kise(5)

- Battle Mage, BloodCovenent, DTMaster, Bekkatha, saberwolf

Not Voting(4)

- MafiaSSK, iPeanut, lobstermania, xRECKONERx

Deadline:

24/8/09 15:45 Central Time

7 to Lynch
4 to Lynch at deadline

[Bekkatha]

I agree with BM's post 633 for the most part. BUT I don't like how pushy BM is for Kise's lynch. I know he likes to play aggressive, but it makes me wonder a little...

If kise is town, I'd go for Scott or BM [i believe BC's claim of day cop, makes sense, so wouldnt vote for him.]
If Scott goes next and is town, I'd go Kise or SSK

Setting up your scummy lynches in advance a bit much?

Vote: saberwolf

Nervous? Aren't you thinking ahead of who you will focus on the next day? The object of this is to find out who is scum and it's useful to analyze the way people interact with others. Are you afraid that you'll be caught as scum?

[saberwolf]

I agree with the above post by bekk ^^^

SSK, I think your last post was kinda pointless, although sorta nice to see what you think on the issue...I don't think BC is gonna go anytime soon, and I'm sure Kise is gonna go before BC does.

[saberwolf]

Kise is tomorrows lynch if BC is town.

Reading this over again, it seems to me like you're trying a pleading case where you are trying to see if you can appeal to others in jumping off the Kise BW by saying that if we go and lynch our claimed day cop, we can simply lynch Kise tomorrow. Seems kinda scummy.

FoS: MafiaSSK

[Scott Brosius]

I agree with BM's post 633 for the most part. BUT I don't like how pushy BM is for Kise's lynch. I know he likes to play aggressive, but it makes me wonder a little...

If kise is town, I'd go for Scott or BM [i believe BC's claim of day cop, makes sense, so wouldnt vote for him.]
If Scott goes next and is town, I'd go Kise or SSK

Setting up your scummy lynches in advance a bit much?

Vote: saberwolf

Nervous? Aren't you thinking ahead of who you will focus on the next day? The object of this is to find out who is scum and it's useful to analyze the way people interact with others. Are you afraid that you'll be caught as scum?

Why give scum an easier job? If everyone says if we lynch player A and he's town, go after player B tomorrow, then clearly scum is going to leave player B alive if player B is town for an easy mislynch. Planning out lynches is not pro-town. There is a difference between this and what BM has done saying we should look into people tomorrow not "going" for them as saber has done.

Also out of all the posts between this and your last one, you have NOTHING else to comment on?

[saberwolf]

If you notice scott, I have left multiple options for both scenarios, so scum can't 100% accurately play on simply my post alone, although I do see what you were getting at.
This also could be a red herring for scum as well, but that just leads to WIFOM, so no sense running down that deadend discussion.

[Platypus_Dude]

Parents are keeping me busy today, and tomorrow is my birthday, so we're traveling around, and THEN my party is on Friday. Sorry, I thought I could finish the skim.

[xRECKONERx]

I agree with BM's post 633 for the most part. BUT I don't like how pushy BM is for Kise's lynch. I know he likes to play aggressive, but it makes me wonder a little...

If kise is town, I'd go for Scott or BM [i believe BC's claim of day cop, makes sense, so wouldnt vote for him.]
If Scott goes next and is town, I'd go Kise or SSK

Setting up your scummy lynches in advance a bit much?

Vote: saberwolf

Nervous? Aren't you thinking ahead of who you will focus on the next day? The object of this is to find out who is scum and it's useful to analyze the way people interact with others. Are you afraid that you'll be caught as scum?

Why give scum an easier job? If everyone says if we lynch player A and he's town, go after player B tomorrow, then clearly scum is going to leave player B alive if player B is town for an easy mislynch. Planning out lynches is not pro-town. There is a difference between this and what BM has done saying we should look into people tomorrow not "going" for them as saber has done.

Also out of all the posts between this and your last one, you have NOTHING else to comment on?

I agree with this post on a theoretical level, but I don't like how Scott seems to be pushing this so hard. It's a pretty dramatic exaggeration between what was said and what he interprets as happening. Not to mention, Scott hasn't given me many pro-town vibes since D1.

I don't like the Kise wagon because I've played with him before where he got lynched by an overeager town due to his erratic playstyle, but I also don't like the idea of lynching our claimed cop.

Vote: Scott

[Battle Mage]

?
When I flip town, who will you three, MaffiaSSK, Scott, and Kise go for?

Please note that Kise was the only one that wanted my lynch, and pulled so many strings to make a case on me, clearly he wants me lynched.

Not true, I think my crumbs were obvious enough that i could not participate in any day actions, I think that those who needed to know, found out shortly after I posted, and kept it to themselves, as they should have. Except Kise as of now, he's trying to paint me as day scum, so that he could clear himself, If I were to flip scum. But me flipping town, upon lynch guarantee's his death tomorrow, if I am lynched. Kise really wants me lynched. I think he's scared.

There are no votes on you, but you keep talking about what will happen if you get lynched today. You seem panicky.

Lol, i think i counted

4

scummity scumbags who suggested they wanted him dead today. I'm flipping panicky, so i wouldnt be atall surprised if BC was! 0.o

BM

[Battle Mage]

I agree with BM's post 633 for the most part. BUT I don't like how pushy BM is for Kise's lynch. I know he likes to play aggressive, but it makes me wonder a little...

aww, people always get me wrong.

That said, i'm rarely ever this confident about people being scum-often i just throw suspicion out there, and see what sticks.

If kise is town, I'd go for Scott or BM [i believe BC's claim of day cop, makes sense, so wouldnt vote for him.]
If Scott goes next and is town, I'd go Kise or SSK

If Kise is town, i will gladly give myself up for lynch tomorrow. If Scott is lynched today and comes up town, i still want to see Kise strung up tomorrow.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I agree with BM's post 633 for the most part. BUT I don't like how pushy BM is for Kise's lynch. I know he likes to play aggressive, but it makes me wonder a little...

If kise is town, I'd go for Scott or BM [i believe BC's claim of day cop, makes sense, so wouldnt vote for him.]
If Scott goes next and is town, I'd go Kise or SSK

Setting up your scummy lynches in advance a bit much?

Vote: saberwolf

Lol, you arent doing yourself, or me, any favours here. I'd rather lynch Kise than you today, so why do you insist on jumping in front of the bullet?

BM

[Kise]

Battle Mage... hop off of BC's dick for 1 freakin' post, please.

Please note that Kise was the only one that wanted my lynch, and pulled so many strings to make a case on me, clearly he wants me lynched.

I'm voting saberwolf ATM and requested that you "play nice" and find night scum. You withheld information from us, and I don't see the harm in letting everyone know you cannot find day scum. Your role details are believable. The main reason I am accusing you of being day scum is because of all that BS you said about knowing CB was night mafia. If you gave out more info on your role rather than lie about the 48 hour rule, I would not have been able to make a case on you. I don't know what to make of you now since your role details are believable, as I said. Anyway, as you can see, I'm comfortable with a SW lynch.

[Kise]

Note that we are playing with basic Mafia roles, Not any of the advanced roles. No where in the Cop wiki does it show that there are mafia cops. Maybe it is my lack of experience, but I am willing to bet that there are not mafia cops that often, let alone in a new york game.

Meh... you think a cop that can only sniff out a certain kind of scum is normal? And yes, there is a such thing as mafia cop. They basically act as rolecops, so they can tell their partners who has what ability, etc.

Kise Analysis

Post 0 - Trying to look town with the old "RVS hate".

Post 1 - Over-defensive and panicky

Posts 5 and 6 - Incorrectly citing IIOA

Post 17 - Claims CJ leaving the game is a null-tell.

Post 18 - Votes CJ, with no further comment.

-MAHOOSIVE ABSENCE-

Post 22 - Tries to discourage BC from investigating him.

Post 23 - Brings up the possibility of a JOAT

Post 24 - Worried about claiming early.

Post 26 - Claims vanilla.

Post 28 - Worried about Ipeanut making him look bad. Fishing.

Post 31 - Knows he is going down, and wants to see if ANYONE was buying his claim.

Cba to read anymore. That's more than enough to warrant a lynch.

I might analyse Scott later.

BM

[Kise]

I was really surprised to see that Reck thought Kise's case was compelling, that most certainly disturbed me. I thought he was Obv town, but not any more.

Dude... I know psychology pretty well. I figured out that Xyl was Godfather in our 1st game together. I'm an oddball, but if I may say so myself, my assessments (as town) are inspired by good enough evidence.

Kise is tomorrows lynch if BC is town.

I'm voting saberwolf... why is everyone thinking I'm ready to rid of BC? I'm willing to give him a chance because by eliminating night mafia, that's one less faction that can kill. Saberwolf made a comment about needing to check the flavor of nightkills. Then, later on, we verify that scum can modify how their kills are made. Seems strange, do you not agree?

Kise is tomorrows lynch if BC is town.

Reading this over again, it seems to me like you're trying a pleading case where you are trying to see if you can appeal to others in jumping off the Kise BW by saying that if we go and lynch our claimed day cop, we can simply lynch Kise tomorrow.

Nice catch, SW.. I could be wrong about you.. I don't understand why SSK is among those who believe I am calling for BC's lynch

today

. It's very inconsidering to the fact that day mafia could be lynched or killed, thus disproving my case against BC and clearing him. I will second a

FoS on SSK

.

If you notice scott, I have left multiple options for both scenarios, so scum can't 100% accurately play on simply my post alone, although I do see what you were getting at.

I don't see it that way.. what happens in the event both Scott & I are town? What does that say about your proposal then? Also, I thought you said earlier I wasn't playing to my scum meta. Did I... suddenly start playing my scum meta?

@Mod(s):

The Rules

2. Play to win. Naming, or even pretending to name, scumbuddies is an infraction of this rule and will result in modkills and an automatic loss for your team.

Just want to refresh this rule in case it's already been done.

[Seraphim]

MOD NOTE: IF YOU BELIEVE THE RULES HAVE BEEN BROKEN, PM ME WITH QUOTES. I WILL DECIDE THE CASE AND POSSIBLE PUNISHMENT.

[iPeanut]

You didnt think to read my above post?

I'll be interested to see if Kise calls IIOA on this.

I just jumped in and had only read up to page 25 at that point. Reading that post makes sizing up Kise easier, but it's always best to look back for oneself. That post was bad, though, yeah. ): *making it up now*

And, regarding what Peanut said, about my innocent results are useless, I pretty much said that same thing at the beginning of this day.

True, but now we know the depths of what you meant by that. Just suspecting that a person could be a godfather under innocent results is rather far fetched, after all. The odds are low, and there's no guarantee there's a godfather. Now we've got a daymafia confirmation, so that increases the odds quite a bit of an innocent turning out to be scum.

On Scott: I liked his D1 play, but as we continued into D2...
10: Pondering the setup there was admittedly a little odd, but I'm willing to let it slip with post 13's explanation for that.
12: The reasoning is fine with me, but his thinking that the kill was attempted mafia-to-mafia fire seems like he knows a bit too much. Doesn't sit well with me.
The only other thing after that that stands out to me is the point about setting up lynches in advance, which I agree with.

On Kise: The JOAT thing sits a bit odd with me, since there was no reason at that point not to think that it wasn't a day-vig or some similar role. It seems like a leap to think it's a JOAT before that, but that's not necessarily scummy, just different thought process. Other than that, nothing's really standing out to me as scummy. The case on BC was very, very aggressive, but it's not like he's acting without thinking on it. I agree that at least keeping BC alive to find nightscum, regardless of whether or not he's part of the day faction, is a good move; plus, the initial argument made sense. However, I'm wondering why there wasn't any aggressive action towards any of the other players that had (much, much earlier) assumed that there were two factions. At several points during my initial readthrough, I kept checking the rules and whatnot to see if it was actually declared that there were two factions since some people had it planted so solidly in their posts. At least BC's got an explanation for it.

On Saberwolf: The asking Kise to claim thing came pretty much outta the blue. Despite later explanation, it makes much less sense for that to have happened instead of someone else dropping the third request. Also, when he notes certain people going down and flipping town, it makes me curious to know why he didn't outline what comes next in the event that any of them flip scum. Why would that change anything?

[Sando]

Ok, BCs night-cop claim was incredibly obvious, those not seeing that simply weren't paying attention. The 'Bekk might not be innocent' instead of 'Bekk might be godfather' made it pretty obvious something was up. When you thought about it a bit, which most of you seem to be averse to, it was pretty obvious what the role was.

Also, if day-scum knew about it, he didn't have to worry about them killing him, why would they kill someone who is only a threat to their enemies?

Also, given that he got a guilty on an active night-scum player, he could deduce that the night-scum kill was successfully blocked, and guess that there was a night-doc, something confirmed later by CB.

BC, I agree that you claimed too early, if for no other reason than the early claim made you very hard to believe. Also, I didn't see the upside in hiding your role from town, or day-mafia for that matter. Coming off as a threat against day-mafia when you're not only invites them to kill you, which is bad for town. Showing your full role means only night-mafia will want to kill you, and we seem to have a night-doc, which is good.

Kise, you didn't make a semblance of a reasonable case against BC. His power-role fluff was obvious from his posts today, and if you'd spent half as much time thinking about what he said instead of making as case against a cop who got a confirmed guilty, you'd have worked it out yourself. You should stop being petulant about the fact that you didn't.

Lol, you arent doing yourself, or me, any favours here. I'd rather lynch Kise than you today, so why do you insist on jumping in front of the bullet?

What are you talking about, Scott actually makes a good point, saberwolf was setting up kills the next day based on someone flipping town, at this point that's a major no-no.

Vote: Kise

The amount of role-fishing from Kise has been, well, amazing. The JOAT thing was weird and makes no sense for someone who was apparently not paying much attention to the game and doesn't have a power-role. His explanation of 'I was role-fishing with it' isn't exactly a great response.

@All - If you don't believe my VT claim, then, well... I must be the only VT left. My paraphrasing of my role PM is as identical as I could make it. There are a few people who didn't comment on my question, but in the event anyone else wants me to clear them as a VT, I have a good test.

Possibly one of the scummiest things I've ever seen. It's what, D3, and you're actively hunting for roles.

Pretty sure that's a L-1 vote.

[Kise]

@Seraphim - Just checking to see if you can remember a time it happened. I don't, lol. I want my job to be made easier though.

I'm gonna

FoS Sando

right now in case I don't get a chance to post my full case against him.

@SSK - I thought you said anyone who antagonized me and believed BC was stupid(?). This gave me the impression you understood how I made my case on BC... but later you say that if BC is town, I should be lynched next. I don't get it. If you also believe BC could have been day scum, then why would him flipping town mean I'm scum and not you as well for [supposedly] sharing my viewpoint of his role? To me, it doesn't appear that you're wanting to nail mafia-cop; just lynch a cop & a townie next. Please make more elaborate posts. Also, have you caught up on the entire game?

If Kise is town, i will gladly give myself up for lynch tomorrow. If Scott is lynched today and comes up town, i still want to see Kise strung up tomorrow.

I can understand having certainty that someone (me in this case) is scum, but if you're townie, why would you want to cripple your team in this manner? Sacrificing yourself due to honor is pretty stupid, or anti-town. Take your pick.

Also... Post 662 is not what I intended. My responses to BM's analysis is... not there. Let me retry this:

Kise Analysis

Post 0 - Trying to look town with the old "RVS hate".

Konowa admits that it wasn't a random vote. He said bandwagon gets us out of RVS, but then also says that he didn't bandwagon... He was nuts.

Posts 5 and 6 - Incorrectly citing IIOA

1 or 2 others felt the same way I did about nhammen's post, including BC before he retracted his statement/agreeance.

Post 17 - Claims CJ leaving the game is a null-tell.

It was. Your point?

Post 18 - Votes CJ, with no further comment.

Everyone was scrambling for the best lynch. I did not want to vote MM or BC, so I went with the 3rd highest wagon that was much more plausible. Not my fault CJ acted scummy by antagonizing BC.

-MAHOOSIVE ABSENCE-

Is there a point in mentioning this? I was not posting in any of my other games (I had quite a bit) so it wasn't like I ignored this one. If you're accusing me of lurking, just say it so we're clear (and I'll tell you know that lurking was not the case).

Post 22 - Tries to discourage BC from investigating him.

Moreso trying to discourage a DK/NK. BC basically announced me as a likely investigation target, and the mafia would have likely denied him the chance to clear me as non-night scum by killing me & making him waste an investigation. I have this mindset because BC was cop in a different game of ours and I was mafia, and my plan was to NK anyone who I felt would be his likely target. But of course, Empking had to confuse me by saying I only get 1 kill the whole game and BC caught both my partner & I before I could do away with him........ ANYWAY, back to this game.

Post 23 - Brings up the possibility of a JOAT

I won't name-drop, but there were others who speculated nhammen's death being done by a day-vig. No one except BC knew about the night & day mafia, which is another reason I thought I had caught him slipping up. How come you didn't get on anyone else's case when they speculated about who killed nhammen?

Post 24 - Worried about claiming early.

Worried..? Pretty sure I laughed in that post. You wanted me to make a full claim with only 2 votes on me because you probably thought I was JOAT, huh?

Post 26 - Claims vanilla.

Post 31 - Knows he is going down, and wants to see if ANYONE was buying his claim.

I wanted to see if there were any other VT's. If there were, then they would have compared their role PM with my paraphrasing and known I was telling the truth. If there are any other VT's and I'm wrong, then there's still other methods to prove it.... we can count the # of words in the role PM.

[Kise]

On Kise: The JOAT thing sits a bit odd with me, since there was no reason at that point not to think that it wasn't a day-vig or some similar role. It seems like a leap to think it's a JOAT before that, but that's not necessarily scummy, just different thought process.

Does it really make a world of a difference whether I had said day-vig & not JOAT?

[Kise]

if day-scum knew about it, he didn't have to worry about them killing him, why would they kill someone who is only a threat to their enemies?

This is another point against BC.. if day scum didn't know BC could only discover night mafia, then why would they risk keeping him alive past D2?

I'm wondering why there wasn't any aggressive action towards any of the other players that had (much, much earlier) assumed that there were two factions. At several points during my initial readthrough, I kept checking the rules and whatnot to see if it was actually declared that there were two factions since some people had it planted so solidly in their posts. At least BC's got an explanation for it.

Before the phase ends, please name-drop who else talked about 2 factions.

The amount of role-fishing from Kise has been, well, amazing.

You were one of those who expected me to claim JOAT. Need I remind you of your quote that you did NOT answer and only deflected?

Kise, I'm curious as to why you jumped to JOAT rather than a vig or SK, afaik they're much more common. Why would a JOAT use their one-shot kill so early?

Here, you're trying to figure out whether I am certain there is a JOAT (and hoping it's me) by questioning why JOAT and not DV/SK. You also ask me why would a JOAT use their 1-shot so early... how else would I know unless I am the JOAT myself, right? You were fishing, plain and simple. And since day scum would know for certain that a JOAT didn't kill nhammen, it'd be better to assume you're night scum.

Here is your pathetic response/deflection:

Kise, I'm curious as to why you jumped to JOAT rather than a vig or SK, afaik they're much more common. Why would a JOAT use their one-shot kill so early?

Fishing....

You were role fishing? Oh good, thanks for clearing that up, that's a totally townie thing to do...

*smh*

[MafiaSSK]

Kise is tomorrows lynch if BC is town.

Reading this over again, it seems to me like you're trying a pleading case where you are trying to see if you can appeal to others in jumping off the Kise BW by saying that if we go and lynch our claimed day cop, we can simply lynch Kise tomorrow. Seems kinda scummy.

FoS: MafiaSSK

Wat? IF I plead, I plead in more than one sentence.

[Kise]

Read posts 663 & 667, SSK. I've got some stuff I need you to go over/answer, please.

[MafiaSSK]

Read posts 663 & 667, SSK. I've got some stuff I need you to go over/answer, please.

I find the questions self-explanatory.

[DTMaster]

@BM

You outlined 4 "scummy scum bags" on the Kise bandwagon on your 658. Here are the current votes:

Vote Count:

Scott Brosius(1)

- Sando

saberwolf(3)

- Platypus_Dude, Kise, Scott Brosius

Kise(5)

- Battle Mage, BloodCovenent, DTMaster, Bekkatha, saberwolf

Not Voting(4)

- MafiaSSK, iPeanut, lobstermania, xRECKONERx

Deadline:

24/8/09 15:45 Central Time

7 to Lynch
4 to Lynch at deadline

I'm going to assume you are point your finger at everyone else but yourself (lol if you just had self admit to being scum). Can you explain this? I'm sorry but you seemed to stress that you were "99% sure Kise was scum" in your 633. I'm confused by your stance here so can you clarify yourself.

I dislike your offer in 659. Appeasing the masses with "I'll offer my own lynch" if I'm wrong is just anti-town in general (not a scum sign). Efforts are better kept towards scum hunting, not self voting cases.

@ipeanut

Since I walked in on day 3 I found it really obvious after CB's lynch and the flavor of the game. Someone earlier said (which I can't remember who) it would be redundant to type: Night Mafia.

But as we saw with BC's cop explanation (as I see it stands), we might have to be careful to use it as an argument for scummyness. Town PRS if they follow that theme and might slip some information. I'd say tread lightly if you are going down that path.

@Kise

Your recent FOS:Sando looks really OMGUS like, but I'll wait for that case before I judge.

Also it might not be any business of mine but what's with the whole mod questioning? Which two people were you trying to point out in all of that (for a potential mod kill)? I'm curious to who you thought broke that rule.

Also your little message about the cop/scum in your 667 is pretty anti-town. With the godfather discussion going on, the general town feeling would be to automatically distrust you for calling out an investigation on you. While you logically want to "save an investigation" from your "mafia day cop" (well you now see him as a town cop so this one is just sarcasm here), it sets up a potential mislynch on you today.

I don't see the reasoning why you would rather want to risk a mislynch today to save maybe 2 investigations. It equals to about 3 deaths a day, with a chance of cross fire if BC doesn't get scum on his next two investigations. If it turns out that 3 townies over 2 days dies (so a total of 6 townies in a worst case scenario) you just cut the population in half with two scum teams still running about. It's a big gamble right there.

Please note though the above is theory assuming what could have happened on day 2.

We got 1 scum, lost 2 townies and got 1 iffy innocent result. In a best case scenario we get full scum kill with a guilty result (and hopefully god father kills if there are any). In a worse case scenerio we get 3 townies with an iffy innocent. So the total in a worse case is just 5 townies, not 6.

I don't want to list any other combos since it's just redundant, but I hope you get my point.

(Status: NOt DOooone >_< I fell awful since its been a couple of days now)

[Kise]

So the chances of Godfather being on the night team are likely? Especially considering the cop is only half-useful in the 1st place? Unless there is also a day cop (I'm not fishing), then I doubt there's a Godfather. But we'll leave it as my own personal opinion.

Also DTM, I'm not OMGUS w/ Sando at all. Before he voted, you should notice that I called him out early for fishing when he asked me about JOAT's motivation for killing nhammen. Why the hell did Sando want me to explain why a JOAT (suspected to be me) would use his 1-shot early on? The reason I see is because he thought that, by me explaining why a JOAT would use it, he'd conclude whether or not I could very well be JOAT.

And again, it's not that I've seen anyone joking about being scumbuddies with anyone; I only wanted to refresh that rule in case Seraphim remembers seeing it.