Open 163 (Jungle Republic)- Game Over before 835

[ZazieR]

Post 193 –This post makes it more scummy that you stated connections between three players you didn’t see as scummy, but not right after you called a player scummy

[ZazieR]

Post 194 – Interested in hearing whom I’ve called useless,

Scott

[ZazieR]

Post 196 – Last paragraph is interesting. You say that I’m trying to make the four who started the discussion to look scummy (Even though I didn’t mention Nik). One scumtell I like is fake scumhunting. An example is attacking one player for what he did, but not another for doing the same.
What I mean is that my main suspicions were Hohum, Saber and you (DT). Looking at Cow’s analysis post, he has the same. Want to tell what the difference is between my analysis and Cow’s?

[ZazieR]

Post 197 – You sure know how to be contradictory with your posts, don’t you?
First, you state that I’ve attacked every player who had posted up until that point. In the same post, you realise already that this isn’t the case.
In this post, you state that I’m mainly attacking the four main talkers. Meaning, I did narrow it down, which was something you wanted me to do in the first post in response to my list.
Also, if you remember, the first posts were up to page 5. Seems Toro had only 5 posts at that point. And most weren’t analysable. The same goes for Cain who only had one post at that point, of whom I asked a question about it. But tell me, why those two specific and not other players I barely mentioned, like Kill, ThAd or Scott?
As for your question in Post 198, Nik isn’t scummy.

[ZazieR]

Post 205 – My list wasn’t the real version yet. The bottom 4 are very likely going to the ‘neutral’ or ‘neutral/leaning towards …’ lists.

[ZazieR]

Post 207 – Cain, Lumi, Nik and Cow (Me as well) to be exact. I asked a question towards Cain to see if he’s scummy or not. Lumi hadn’t posted anything yet. And the last two aren’t scummy/barely scummy.

[ZazieR]

Post 219 – With assuming, you don’t get far. Nik is one of my more pro-town reads.
When I don’t comment, it either means I agree or have nothing to say. Nik falls in the first category for the most parts.

[ZazieR]

Post 222 – Are you looking at the reasons why I think that those three are scummy? Because I don’t get that impression from this post. Do so, and then come back.
Also, because you think somebody is the most scummiest, doesn’t mean I think the same. Disagreeing isn’t a scumtell.
I really don’t know what to think of Post 223.

Post 225:

Why I think ZazieR twisted my words and such:

Post 18 – Trying to keep the attention on Mastin. This

could also be

a defence for one of them (As he asks both of them to forget about it), more likely to be DT as he got the most heat.
Short stated, trying to keep us away from discussion.

Never made the slightest indication of nudging the votes or attention onto Mastin. After my vote for mastin and small talk with hohum, made NO MORE MENTION of mastin.

Bolded for the right keywords.

[ZazieR]

Post 227:

Mind you, by scummiest, I mean rubbed me the wrong way more than the others.

So for people to be scummy, they have to rub you the wrong way? This is what prompted me to vote for you when you said this about ZazieR.

The two situations are different. In the first situation, we have almost nobody talking at all, and out of the four active people, three were fighting each other in a OMGUS battle. I tried not to take any sides, cause to me it was clear that they were tunneling,

and that I'd get almost no useful information out of the fight

. There was not enough information and the timelength was too short [considering we were still in the RVS] to be able to claim any of the activity was scummy. In the second situation, I felt that ZazieR had made an inappropriate attack on me, and seemed to be trying hard to discredit me. Looking at it from a scum perspective it would make sense: I was the only one not involved in the fight, so I was the only one who didn't make myself look bad. Also, I had already gained the respect and title of pro-town from one player, so it'd be best to try to take that away from me and make me look as bad as possible to make the odds better in favour of scum.

Hope that helps. Although, no doubt, you'll do your best to rip this to shreds too, or else claim ignorance.

Bolded is scummy. Note the ‘I’ in it. Thinking about himself, instead of the whole town.
Can’t remember who called you pro-town. Link?
Also,

Cow

, RUN!!! Nobody calls you scumy, now I’m going to attack you to throw dirt on you!!!
*throws dirt*
*kicks sand at you*
*Mud wrestles you*
Had enough ?
Seriously though, next time wait for my response, instead of making assumptions that aren’t true. Though it has made me interested to hear from your POV, why this can’t have come from Zazie-town.
Also, did I shred it enough ?

[ZazieR]

Post 232 – Post 54: Saber asked for the lists. Hohum didn’t. See my response to Saber’s explanation for a full explanation why this is scummy.
Post 67: Don’t see it. Town doesn’t know who’s connected to whom. So when a town player gets lynched, you can’t clear anyone.

[ZazieR]

Post 196 – Last paragraph is interesting. You say that I’m trying to make the four who started the discussion to look scummy (Even though I didn’t mention Nik). One scumtell I like is fake scumhunting. An example is attacking one player for what he did, but not another for doing the same.

What I mean is that my main suspicions were Hohum, Saber and you (DT). Looking at Cow’s analysis post, he has the same. Want to tell what the difference is between my analysis and Cow’s?

EBWOP:
Bolded is also a question

Saber

should answer.

[ZazieR]

Lists

Scummy:

Vote Saberwolf

DT
Hohum (*awaits responses*)

Neutral/leaning scummy:
Scott
Toro

Neutral:
Kill
Lumi

Town:
Cow
Nik

When I was done with the above lists, I had to look at the OP who I had forgotten ._. Not a good sign.
Forgot:
Cain
ThAd

[DTMaster]

@Zazier

Responses:

Post 103: By last paragraph I'm assuming my:

It's difficult to read sarcasm for me, then hear it. I did take what you said quite literally.

If it isn't can you quote the "paragraph" (since this is actually a sentence, not a paragraph). I typed it since, it's my thought process? Sarcasm is difficult for me to read on the interwebs because when you hear it from someone you also have voice inflections, and tone to hear it from. I was questioned by Has for literally seeing that his 95 post was begging to get unvoted (with smiley). At the time I ignored the smiley so argument ensued. It's how I think, quite literally (pun intended).

Post 122: It's me rehashing that:

1. I did not say I didn't like the bandwagon. I did not say I was uncomfortable with the bandwagon. I just said I saw it was odd since it was page 1 and it's the first time seeing it.

2. That my 11 post you can interpret it as defending, but I personally did not intend to defend Mastin.

3. The only way to confirm this is by my death, since it will reveal my alignment. I won't play suicidally because that is plain dumb to do so and hurts the faction I'm aligned with.

Anything else that you need clarified on?


Post 127: "It" refers to the back peddling on the original Mastin wagon. I wrote "it's odd" and Has said I could go back and accuse people on the argument that the wagon was "scummy" when I clearly said "it wasn't scummy"

If I used this argument then I would be extremely scummy for:

1. Lying
2. Being opportunistic on the current town opinion

I countered that it's premature to use this argument on me since the "opportunity is there" but I never used it. It's best used if I had slipped.

151: No welcome cakes for you!!!!! Spammer >:<
I'm reading Grimmy's game because I want to :3. The flavour is amazing.

On a serious note:
I was using this meta just as a note since Toro's style is consistent in both games. That was the purpose of the FYI to Scott.

180: Devious means evil and cunning. I was jesting since you get your post count up by posting like this at a really fast rate.

Also why do you post like this? I know it's your style and all but just curious.

Lastly: I agree with the reasons on a policy vote depending on what the policy is and when it's invoked. So I would need to look at this from a case by case scenario.

In this game, the two policy votes were on Mastin for his walling and play style during the RVS. I do not have an issue with these policy votes because:

1. This is during the RVS where people had vote/ and will continue to vote for silly reasons until discussion can occur.

2. I never played a game with Mastin but with his current reputation he's known as the replacement killer. Sabre and Hohum's vote to try and stop the wall seems justified, but only during the RVS. If it was determined that Mastin was townie then I would not agree with the policy vote and would argue that the votes are best spent scum hunting.

I answered for Sabre because I think your point wasn't accurate. It isn't scummy to defend someone who you think it's town or point out inaccuracies when you see them. Again I did say these were my thoughts and not Sabres so I wouldn't be answering for him. I'm not him so I wouldn't know his thoughts.

Again I catch sarcasm sometimes (and I do my best to. I know this reads as weak sauce reasoning but I either see it or I don't. That's it.) It felt premature to assume that Sabre already knew there were four scum. Do you believe this was quite a literal scum slip?

Reading sabre's ISO 5 reads as frustrated townie with the whole -_- smiley.

My last paragraph though that's my fault. I missed Cain's post when I went back and reread the page after you pointed this out. I take back my statement against Toro then since Cain's post is scummy.

Part 1 Done. I'll continue with the second half of my posts but I want to post before I lose this giant blob of text.

[DTMaster]

Part 2: Reponses. I'm going to edit things in a nicer format for you since when I read the blob, it was messy.

Response to 196

I like that scum-tell too and if I can spot it I'm a happy camper. :3 / Mafia theory discussion.

Both analysis are similar except for a few key areas which is why I agree with Sabre's comments that your post could be mud slinging at the time of my posts.

1. Reading Has's ISO 2 (The catch-up post) his problem was not contributing to the active discussion. I someone disagree but when I was going through it the main argument was between Nik, Hohum and I. Sabre's posts trying to stop the argument has already been addressed with both scummy and townie interpretations

2. At the time I disagreed with your 169 post. In the context of the timeline I saw misinterpretation within this post (see my response to 52 and 54). Your later post (ISO 38) clarified some of my issues and now I see your POV.

EDIT: Add in a 3. BTW you missed that lumi did a character analysis too. Same reasoning of Has' argument applies here.

In summary you pointed out specific areas of interests that I did not agree with instead of Has or Lumi's analysis. I didn't comment on them since I saw both interpretations. Yours did not clear up until your more recent post.

Response to your 205

I don't understand why you posted an incomplete list, it just served to generate confusion with the town. (It already got a bunch of people scratching their heads) Why did you do it?

Response to your 225

Actually when I look at it, that piece heavily implies a DTM-Sabre link. Is that the direction you are going for?

Response to your 232

54: Sabre asked everyone in the debate to do it. Hohum was the only one who didn't answer. I dislike this.

67: I concede to your point actually. It's stronger then the spectrum idea, and the latter one assumes too much of people.

[saberwolf]

This game is turning into newb central. -_-;

FoS: Everyone who is lurking

Lurking is more of a scumtell in this game. Mafia-tell, specifically. If the mafia can lay low enough to not get lynched or nk'd by the werewolves, they win automatically after three days of continual lynched/nk'd townies. I tell this to the werewolves as well. It's in both the town's and werewolves' best interest for nk's to be directed at mafia.

Aim for the lurkers, and you will be more likely to hit mafia, werewolves.

while this post does make sense, it gives me the slightest feeling of mafia redirecting the gun onto someone else.

FoS Nik

[saberwolf]

Why do you choose the person with the

shortest

attention span to respond to the

longest

post?

Saberwolf

-Post 182: No links of your games with Mastin?

I don't know how to find them. I deleted them from my watched topics. But I did have Mastin replace AnkleLock in a newbie game, and I'm sure I played him a second time somewhere. If you could help me find them, that'd be swell.

-Post 183: Have you done this somewhere before? If so, show me links. I’ll comment later fully on this part when you have given me links if there are ones. But what you are saying is incorrect. Let’s look at the VC.

I was talking about this game, so no links to provide. The votes may not all be there, but the mudslinging is mainly at the four horsemen [i'm giving us a name now ]

Post 133 shows that of the four who started talking, 2 have votes. Of which one has a vote of another starter. Yep, they are really targets .
Also, this gives me the impression you don’t want to get attention.
-184 and 185. You state again that you wanted to wait till everybody has chimed in. So I’d like to know why you haven’t questioned them or anything at all. Some examples include Kill, Cain and ThAd.

I have a very short attention span, and can really only focus on a couple of things at a time. Trying to sort out the chaos allowed me to forget about the others. It is also happening now...it's taking all my effort and time just to reply to you, so I can't focus on anyone else....I'm gonna come back to this point in my conclusion.

-Post 186.

A bit

of sarcasm?

A bit, a piece, synonymous words there

I also want you to respond to my second question regarding Post 40. There was once again discussion, and you asked a question suitable for the RVS.

nothing wrong with commenting on posts, but when it leads to tunneling, I try to discourage it. Tunneling is anti-town.

-Post 187. Regarding Post 52: By saying that there were real reasons, you are trying to state that the Mastin wagon is a good wagon, defending those who are on it. Add that as you already said, Hohum had the same reasons. Defending yourself and another player (Two players) is still defending multiple players.

touche, I'll concede to that point I suppose, although as long as its clear, I only partially defended hohum other than myself

Also, by stating this, you give Cain a possible reason behind his vote. Making it technically three players you are defending.

nope, don't like cain, never vouched for him

Regarding Post 54: Yes, you did post your own list later on. After you were asked to do so.

I was already in the process of typing it before I was even asked. It took me a while to type it, so it showed up much later.

This is fake scumhunting. You’re trying to appear active by posting a question to let other scum hunt, while you aren’t doing it yourself. This also gives you at the same time the thoughts from the other players.

Why would it be any different had I posted first or in the middle?

Regarding Post 67: What do we have in this post. Saber’s list with his thoughts of the active players. What did he state:
-Nik seems legit, but a tad bit pushy (In other words, not scummy)
-DT has made some pro-town looking posts, though he had done some scummy things. You want to hear more (In other words, neutral)
-Hohum is your favorite of the three (In other words, not scummy)
At the end of this post, he does look at connections between them, while not being suspicious of any of them. You’re saying you haven’t done this,

Saber

. Show that.

The only thing I did was make possible seperations between them. I never made any scum connections between any of them.

-Post 188. First of all, that was only to page 5. I’m pretty sure that Cow, Cain and Nik had posted as well back then. Cain you realised later. Nice case of overreacting.

Wasnt overreacting, everyone else concured to my thoughts on the issue

Also, the part about Cain is scummy. You state that ‘others’ thought his vote was scummy. Meaning that you didn’t.

because I hadn't publicly posted about it, otherwise you'd attack me about why I hadn't posted earlier about it then etc. I'm catching on to your head games, ZazieR, don't try to BS me.

Yet, you’re basing an attack against me for it. Why is that?

Cause you're a heavy mudslinger, who is also just like mastin in posting except you cut it up in chunks to make it look nicer, and because I think you're scum. Right now I put you at werewolf.

Also, as answer, I asked him a question about it. If he’s scummy shouldn’t be based upon the vote, but the reason behind it. Now that I have it, his vote is scummy.

No shit it's scummy to you, you're the one I targeted.

-Post 189. Responded to your responses. I’ve seen no misrep or the other things you’re accusing me off from my side. If you see so, show me.

Already did, please reread through the last couple of pages

Also, you are scummy. Your reason for your vote seems to be that I think you are scummy.

Nope, it was mainly for the mudslinging and the fact that as I was apparantly the most town until you showed up and tried to rip my credibility apart.

I’m also curious to hear from you why you think my ‘spam’ has done no scumhunting. With that said, do you think I’m the only one who hasn’t done any scumhunting? If not, why did you only call me out when you think it’s scummy?

I will get to this in my conclusion

(And it’s quite ironic to complain about my ‘spam’ and for you to respond to each of my posts with one post at a time)

Actually I was mocking you, and also my attention span doesn't always allow for such continous thought

[hasdgfas]

hey saber, while I appreciate you responding to zazier, could you please not answer inside the quote?

I have loads of trouble figuring out what someone's saying if they do that.

[saberwolf]

CONCLUSION

ZazieR has been extremely distracting with his posts. Not only is it tedious to read and sort through, but the attacks made on most of the players [some more harshly than others] is causing everyone to have to spend their time replying to all of the questions and comments from ZazieR and defending themselves. What this has done is effectively prevent the rest of us from effectively scumhunting, and ZazieR has done no real scumhunting, because it's mainly all questions and no real accusations towards anyone, with a slight exception on my part...it is very clear we don't like each other right now. ZazieR stop posting these giant pieces of crap, focus on one or two people, and allow the rest of us to do the same. Because I have to keep defending myself and responding to multiple posts, I have not had the time to focus on those lurking by [cain just to name one]. If you are going to keep hounding me ZazieR, please a little less posting or condense it more. Less questions, more statements, more followthrough. Thanks.

[saberwolf]

hey saber, while I appreciate you responding to zazier, could you please not answer inside the quote?

I have loads of trouble figuring out what someone's saying if they do that.

sorry buddy, but I don't really know how else to do it. Dissecting a large chunk of post like that is pretty hard. I did bold my stuff though, so it's easy to tell who wrote what IMO

[Nikanor]

*Facepalm*.
Zazie is doing a good job of scumhunting. Asking questions IS scumhunting, so long as the questions are followed up on, etc. which I believe Zazie has done. You are calling his scumhunting crap because it is directed at you. This post of yours is so scummy it's ridiculous.

Unvote. Vote: saberwolf.

Also, I'm curious about why you think Zazie is werewolf and not mafia. Any specific reason for thinking that?

while this post does make sense, it gives me the slightest feeling of mafia redirecting the gun onto someone else.

I like how you simultaneously agree with my post and say I'm scummy for it.

[Nikanor]

Post 101 – Nik comments for the second time about Post 86. The first time, it seemed rather passive, just a question. But in this post, it seems an attack, while he didn’t comment to Toro’s answer. So can you, Nik, post your thoughts about Toro’s answer?

I thought I had? To which answer are you referring? I see multiple posts that can be interpreted as an answer.

[Nikanor]

My vote puts saber at L-2, by the way.

[saberwolf]

*Facepalm*.
Zazie is doing a good job of scumhunting. Asking questions IS scumhunting, so long as the questions are followed up on, etc. which I believe Zazie has done. You are calling his scumhunting crap because it is directed at you. This post of yours is so scummy it's ridiculous.

Unvote. Vote: saberwolf.

Also, I'm curious about why you think Zazie is werewolf and not mafia. Any specific reason for thinking that?

while this post does make sense, it gives me the slightest feeling of mafia redirecting the gun onto someone else.

I like how you simultaneously agree with my post and say I'm scummy for it.

theres a difference between asking questions to get answers, and then overloading the game with questions so that we're too busy answering questions to ask any of our own.

[saberwolf]

I'm clearly losing this battle.

Guys, when I flip townie, it is my wish that you go after ZazieR. If flips anti-town, nik next.

This is fucking stupid.

Btw, hope you guys realise that because I'm losing the battle, it makes me more likely to be town. Mafia at least know who they are, same with werewolves, therefore they can gang up on an issue and make the other guy look bad. If a non mafia starts a case on me, the mafia arent gonna step in, and same if it were werewolves. All I can hope for are town support, which isn't gonna happen much.

[Nikanor]

theres a difference between asking questions to get answers, and then overloading the game with questions so that we're too busy answering questions to ask any of our own.

You have answered all of Zazie's questions. I do not see what is impeding you from asking questions now.