Man, I leave for 8 hours and when I come home from work, there's 5 more pages? Wow. Ok, catching up again...
iamausername wrote:
Yosarian2 wrote:I'm usually fine with lynching anyone who claims vanilla unless I have a good reason to think they're town.
Do you have a good reason to think VP Baltar is town?
Nope. VP is defiantly one of the people I could see lynching today. He wouldn't be my first choice because there are other people I'm more convinced are scum, but he'd be a reasonable lynch.
On a side note, Elvis's point that the speed of the VP wagon means there are likely to be scum on it seems rational to me, but it doesn't really change my opinion all that much, just seems a little too WIFOM ish to me to be really reliable.
VP Baltar wrote:IAAUN wrote:How [is giving claim information useful]?
So if people are going to follow through with my lynch they at least know I'm not a power role. I really don't understand the argument 'don't claim unless prompted'. What would you have proposed should have happened, I kept quiet while people followed through with lynching me and then have me potentially come up a power role? How is that benefiting the town?
My standard logic on the subject of vanilla claims is more like this:
1. You don't claim to pressure unless you either have a claim that will help prevent you from being lynched, or else will give the town useful information.
2. A vanilla claim should do neither of those in most situations. It should neither prevent a lynch, nor will it give town useful information. (There are exceptions here; some open games, for example, or games where you're a vanilla with flavor).
3. However, if a vanilla townie deos claim vanilla, it does help the scum.
4. Therefore, a vanillia townie should not claim at all in most situations, should instead try to defend themself in other ways.
eikM wrote:
I don't often see wagons on anyone build that fast. In fact I've never seen a wagon build that fast, on town or scum. So why am I supposed to conclude that fast wagons are inevitably scum driven? Saying that a fast wagon exonerates the wagonee just seems like a massive fallacy to me.
The reason I said elvis's theory there seems reasonable is this: the game started with 20 people, and now it's at 15 people with 5 dead town. I have to think that the percentage of people left who are scum is fairly high, perhaps 4/15 or 5/15. With that many scum, it's possible for a wagon to go all the way with no scum on it, but I wouldn't expect it to happen fast unless there was a REALLY strong reason for it; a very large majority of the townies would have to agree on it for it to happen, and that usually takes a lot of time and convincing. When a wagon goes really fast like that, it probably means there were some scum on the wagon.
Which dosn't necessarily mean the wagon is bad, IMHO; there could be some bussing going on here, and the whole thing is kind of WIFOM-ish. But Elvis is right; there probably were some scum on the VP wagon, especially when it was at lynch -1.
Xylthixlm wrote:BTW, Yos: I know we've had a theoretical discussion on the virtues of defending yourself vs not defending myself. I believe you took the position that other players won't defend you so you have to defend yourself.
I would just like to point out that at least three other players have rebutted various arguments against me here.
I'm finding the way you're not defending yourself here frustrating as hell, and all game it's made it harder for me to read you, which is bad if you are town. I understand you've said in MD it's your meta, which is why I haven't used it as a point against you, but I don't think it's at all helpful.
I don't know. I've kind of got the feeling that you've been deliberately trying to be unreadable this game, to the point where you weren't not even been willing to answer simple questions about your motives when you voted me the first time, and "trying to be unreadable" is usually a pretty good scumtell. Only reason I didn't bring that up before is because I think some of that might be from your normal meta, but definatly not all of it.
Xyl wrote:
Little tip: town tend to think I'm ambiguous leaning town. Scum tend to think I'm incredibly scummy and an easy mislynch. It's not 100% but the pattern is there.
Lol.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
