Mini 836: Commie Mafia (Game Over)

[Hoopla]

Hoopla, did you not notice the part in which I went back through the game and noticed that CB wasn't lying?

Rather than this spiralling into a mindless semantics debate, can you please just give me a summary of your current thoughts on Peabody? Because I don't really know.

[CoCo]

Rather than this spiralling into a mindless semantics debate, can you please just give me a summary of your current thoughts on Peabody? Because I don't really know.

Peabody made a late RVS vote.
Peabody defended the RVS vote.

A wagon forms...

Talitha and Charter jump off citing craplogic reasons. Makes me think they are scum. Especially the line concerning scum trying to save a scum buddy by stopping the wagon.

If I confuse you, read the last couple of pages.

[Cyberbob]

Or do you now not find him scummy, now you're off Peabody's wagon?

Seriously, I have no idea where you are in regards to Peabody.

Well, based on this...

-Peabody is probably town.

I'm going to go with the conclusion that he's flip-flopped yet again. It's becoming harder and harder to think of CoCo as erratic town; this recent bout of posting is completely off the charts.

Talitha and Charter jump off citing craplogic reasons. Makes me think they are scum. Especially the line concerning scum trying to save a scum buddy by stopping the wagon.

Talitha's "jump" was only ever going to be temporary, and don't you think it might be a good idea to actually ascertain whether Peabody is scum first before jumping to any conclusions about scumbuddies?

FOS:CoCo

- if Peabody flips scum you're going to be very high on my list tomorrow. You're muddying the waters with all of these terrible votes that are not going to get us anywhere - you are being far more detrimental to the Peabody wagon than the people you say are "obvscum" ever were.

[CoCo]

So, what are you going to do should I get lynched and flip town?

[Talitha]

Personally I'd celebrate that we got rid of someone who is unreadable (in more ways than one) and is a huge distraction.

[CoCo]

No surprise there.
Honestly, meta me. And STFU.

[Cyberbob]

So, what are you going to do should I get lynched and flip town?

You are not going to be lynched today. Stop trying to pre-empt a wagon forming on you.

As a pure hypothetical though, if you

were

somehow lynched today and flipped town I honestly wouldn't have much of a clue what it would mean simply because you've been so damn erratic that it would be virtually impossible to read anything into your interactions with people.

[CoCo]

I disagree.

Should I be lynched and flip town, logically it would follow that I had vague and/or good reasons for the various votes I've made. That, good sir, is valuable town info.

Conversely, scum would have to lynch me as my meta shows my late game play is very strong. In doing so, at this point, they will validate my suspicious.

[Cyberbob]

Should I be lynched and flip town, logically it would follow that I had vague and/or good reasons for the various votes I've made. That, good sir, is valuable town info.

No, it would say absolutely nothing about whether your reasons for your votes were logical or not - just that the motivations behind them were "pro-town". Which would make you stupid and overly jittery as opposed to deliberately distracting.

[SensFan]

Personally I'd celebrate that we got rid of someone who is unreadable (in more ways than one) and is a huge distraction.

QFT.

Should I be lynched and flip town, logically it would follow that I had vague and/or good reasons for the various votes I've made. That, good sir, is valuable town info.

*If anyone thought you had good logic, you wouldn't have been lynched.
*If you are as smart as you claim to be, you're Scum for playing so dumbly.
*Being Town does not equal being right

Do you need more reasons why this is scummy, or are 3 distinct ones enough?

my meta shows my late game play is very strong.

Once again, if you are even an average-level player, you're obvscum, since you've been FAR below that level.

[CoCo]

So, I must assume no one here has bothered to read my games and instead prefers to insult me as a person.

Fail.

[Hoopla]

So, I must assume no one here has bothered to read my games and instead prefers to insult me as a person.

Fail.

You have two completed games. What exactly are you hoping to prove with that sample size? The fact you're so eager to bring your own meta into play suggests to me you're likelier to be trying to manipulate it.

[Cyberbob]

and instead prefers to insult me as a mafia player.

Fixed. I don't know what you are like as a person, not having had anything to do with you outside of the context of this game.

As for your meta, you could be the best late-game player on the whole site but that doesn't change the fact that your play thus far has been completely atrocious. If you really are town, I would advise doing the

pro-town thing

and not being so emotionally unstable. You have attacked and defended almost every player in this game at one stage or another - try for a little consistency in your reads and don't be so whimsical in how you use your vote.

That's just honest advice.

[Col.Cathart]

So, I must assume no one here has bothered to read my games and instead prefers to insult me as a person.

Fail.

I also tried to read other games of CoCo, to see his meta, but honestly, after reading 'I Hate Vanilla' mafia, I gave up. (it's still ongoing so cannot discuss it here, but those who has seen it definitely knows what I'm talking about). I guess, there's no such a thing, as "CoCo's meta"

Personally I'd celebrate that we got rid of someone who is unreadable (in more ways than one) and is a huge distraction.

QFT.

I third that.

[SensFan]

Vote: CoCo

[charter]

Col.Cathart is totally mathcam's partner. Let me dig up some gold to show this.

[le Chat]

i have been gone for a bit and i will catch up tomorrow morning after my test. sorry for the delay.

[mathcam]

CoCo: Okay, "think" is ambiguous. You're right that I expressed a predilection toward 2, and I had forgotten about that. To me, though, "I think there is 2" is stronger than that. But none of this is "gaming the mod" -- it's trying to make an educated guess as to what the game setup looks like. You have weird ideas about what stuff is off-topic to talk about.

Charter: This new bit you're harping on, that I'm voting someone I "think" is town (again, it seems people use this word more generally than I would), is just silly. I'm

always

happy with "better than random" on day one. If you end most day ones with your vote on someone who you evaluate to be more than 50% scum, you're too easily deluded by craplogic. Do you think I'm more than a 50% chance of being scum? Make sure to go back and add that to your mental database of how right you are when the game is over.

----
I'd guess most of you can ignore this part, but I feel obligated to respond.
----

To address some of the other points (sorry, this looks a lot longer than it is...lots of space).

• His revote of Coco, a mere two posts later. He uses Coco original attack on Vaya as one of his reasons, BUT this contradicts why he unvoted. Not only that, but if you look at what he says (Post 215), he justifies it by saying that Coco's answers gave him "plausible deniability" and Coco's reasoning for solely questioning Vaya is "hardly airtight".

There was 50 posts between those two posts! That was a blatant misrepresentation of the truth, and thus scummy. How does the number of those 50 posts being mine have any relevance whatsoever? And changing your mind is not a contradiction. When I re-voted for the same reason as my original unvote, it's clear that I no longer considered CoCo's responses satisfactory.

• Having to wait and think about if he wants to continue voting Coco when it's clear no one else is interested in pursuing Coco. I still maintain it was just to wait to see who else would emerge as an easy target.

You can maintain what you want. Thinking about what you want to do next is what rational people do.

• Despite what he says in 356, he really hasn't done any scumhunting.

Not sure what to tell you, no one else seems to have this opinion.

• Puts me at L-2 in 362, no real reason given, though we find out later it was OMGUS.

I still admit that there was probably some OMGUS, but since then I remembered my original FOS on you.

• Does a complete 180 on Hoopla in 410, but no mention of why.

I don't make a habit out of explaining every single change of suspicion I've considered. Unless that person is a serious candidate for lynch or I'd like them to become one, you'd all drown in text every time I changed my mind about someone.

• Unvotes me after pretty much everyone not voting me says they don't like the charterwagon. Once again, drops all lines of questioning.

First, there's an extent to which it's only sensible to drop a wagon I'm not particularly enthralled with once I find there's no support to be had. I also thought at the time that the only reason I had

• [Tries to lynch someone he thinks is town in 505.This is horribly scummy, how does anyone think this is a town move?

[/list]
It's not, and I'm guessing they manage to think this is a town move by actually thinking about the likelihood of a player being scum instead of attempting to score cheap points by deliberately being obtuse about how percentages work.

[mathcam]

So, what are you going to do should I get lynched and flip town?

You are not going to be lynched today. Stop trying to pre-empt a wagon forming on you.

Seriously. The level of over-defensiveness being displayed over the last couple of pages is overwhelming. Unfortunately, there are too many people entrenched against a CoCowagon to pursue this until tomorrow.

I'm putting the chances at CoCo surviving the night at 98%.

Cam

[SensFan]

Like 5 people in a row agreed with Tally about CoCo being a good lynch. Why aren't we lynching him?

[Cyberbob]

Like 5 people in a row agreed with Tally about CoCo being a good lynch. Why aren't we lynching him?

I didn't agree with him being a good lynch, in fact I believe I said he would be a bad one (for today) because his cardflip would give us less info than someone like Peabody. Besides which, while his play today has been undeniably horrible I can't quite shake my emotional-town read of him.

I'd rather lynch someone who has been scummy

and

whose flip will give us a nice amount of info than someone whose scumminess can easily be attributed to bad town play.

I will be happy to lynch CoCo tomorrow if the following happens:

- Peabody flips scum. CoCo's latest outburst came right as Peabody's wagon was nearing fruition; he's been declaring charter and Talitha "obvscum" which is dumb for Day 1. Charter's reasoning for unvoting was kind of weak but Talitha made it explicit that her unvote was only going to be temporary and in any case CoCo's new reasoning that Peabody is "probably town" is worse than either of them. Jumping off a wagon so obviously and so incredibly late in the day to try and save a scumbuddy would be absolute suicide. Newbie scum might do it but charter and Talitha are not newbies. Yes I know this is WIFOM but so is everything else about this particular issue including CoCo's reasoning itself.

(that became a lot longer than I expected it to )

- CoCo does not shape up his act tomorrow. Make no mistake; I am just as tired of his antics as everybody else must be. It's just that I am very happy with the Peabody wagon right now, and if we give CoCo a chance to lift his game - and he does - that can only be good for the town.

[mathcam]

Interesting. To the contrary, I think we'd get tons of delicious information to digest if we lynched CoCo.

Cam

[Cyberbob]

How so, do you think? I'm going by his having run the full gamut of possible opinions on almost everybody; admittedly I haven't looked too hard at how

other

people have reacted to him throughout the day (at least not in terms of trying to cohesively piece it all together) however.

[charter]

Do you think I'm more than a 50% chance of being scum?

I don't know what percentage to assign my read, but I do think you're scum.

There was 50 posts between those two posts! That was a blatant misrepresentation of the truth, and thus scummy. How does the number of those 50 posts being mine have any relevance whatsoever? And changing your mind is not a contradiction. When I re-voted for the same reason as my original unvote, it's clear that I no longer considered CoCo's responses satisfactory.

I meant your two posts later. You can "change your mind" all you want, but it was scummy.

Despite what he says in 356, he really hasn't done any scumhunting.

Not sure what to tell you, no one else seems to have this opinion.

No one else will say more than two words about you, which puzzles me to the extreme.

The rest of his "defense" was pretty much just agreeing with me (sans the lynching someone he thinks is town, which I went overboard on, but it still reeks of scum) so I'm even more happy with my vote.

I'm putting the chances at CoCo surviving the night at 98%.

Obviously because you're scum and he's a massive detriment to town.

[Peabody]

Interesting. To the contrary, I think we'd get tons of delicious information to digest if we lynched CoCo.

Cam

I'm curious.



Charter's case against mathcam is no good and scummy at best.

CoCo's erratic play makes me want to lynch him. I can't read him at all if he keeps acting the way he does. He is most likely scum based on the fact that he ignores questions, flip-flops, and builds weak cases. If he's town, I don't see how he is helping us.

Talitha is most likely town. I believe her claims on not having time to read the thread. During my iso-talitha, I've determined that although she was scummy at first, she is generally protown with her questions and baiting techniques.

SC is probably town. SensFan, I don't understand your case against SC. Your accusation that he is full of hot air doesn't fit well with me. He has been contributing a whole lot in my opinion.