/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[elvis_knits]

The only thing I'm worried about, is if he hides behind town and that townie gets killed, but I don't see why/how that would happen.

It seems like that would be the perfect thing for scum to do, right? Kill whoever tajo is hiding with, get 2 for 1.

How about tajo hides behind (DESIGNATED PERSON) and Iamausername jailkeeps that same person, and serial bodyguards that same person. Would that protect the designated person if they were town? Maybe not, if one or both of serial/username are scum with a roleblocker. If they're both scum or one is scum and scum have a roleblocker, they can still get the 2 for 1.

I really think we should kill tajo today. If he's town he confirms half the town. I said before, if I am one of the only town left on the short list, I wouldn't mind dying for the town win. I just want to make sure that tajo is really town before I go for that.

Unless there is a real plan that scum can't screw us with. I'm still looking for that, if anyone has a good idea. The more ideas we have and the more people trying, would really help our odds here people.

[charter]

No...

The point of my plan is for tajo to hide behind scum, there's nothing scum can do to stop this. Hider resolves before everything, and if tajo dies and the person he's hiding behind doesn't, then it confirms a scum and a bunch of townies.

Of course, the best option is to lynch Elvis/Pooky, and then continue lynching down that list until the game is over.

[elvis_knits]

Charter, are you willing to lose the game if I'm town?

[elvis_knits]

Seriously, what is the benefit of opening us up for a 2 for 1 when we can just lynch tajo right now and find out if he's scum but limit the damage if he's town?

[charter]

Charter, are you willing to lose the game if I'm town?

My plan doesn't hinge on if you're town or scum. It hinges on tajo hiding behind scum, which if he's town, he has over a 50% chance of that tonight.

[charter]

I'm just throwing it out, but if no one else wants to do it, then lynching tajo is fine I guess. I don't think he's scum, but whatever, lynching him guarantees we have another day.

[elvis_knits]

The only thing is if there is five scum, and tajo hides behind town tonight, and scum kill that townie, then I think we lose.

So I'm town.

If tajo is town, and he hides behind me, and if there are five scum, then we lose.

So I'm just asking you if you are willing to hinge the game on that when we can just kill tajo right now and confirm half the town without that autolose scenario.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Ah...right, right. Yeah, not used to playing with a hider.

But, yeah, that's actually why it's so dangerous for hider to breadcrumb. If scum figure it out and he's targeting town, they can kill that town and get 2 for the price of 1; if scum figure it out and he's targeting scum, and they have a roleblocker, they can roleblock him and then let him assume the scum player as town, and confirm that scum player as town later. (1 scum, confirmed as town, usually leads to a town loss in endgame.)

Hider resolves before Roleblocker, and thus is immune to roleblocking.

[elvis_knits]

pooky vote tajo

[mith]

Deadline:

Approximately 2.5 days from this post.

Vote Count:

7 to lynch.

PookyTheMagicalBear: 4 (charter, iamausername, Thesp, VP Baltar)
populartajo: 3 (elvis_knits, Kmd4390, SerialClergyman)
iamausername: 2 (PookyTheMagicalBear, roflcopter)
Kmd4390: 1 (populartajo)
SerialClergyman: 1 (Yosarian2)

Not Voting: 2 (ekiM, zu_Faul)

[SerialClergyman]

Ok, I return after sleep. Sorry for some of those posts.

I actually went through the scenario charter is describing. It works ok if Tajo is town (remember rofl will live and get an investigation if the scum need to roleblock and kill whoever Tajo hides with). So with Tajo confirmed, one of the seven confirmed and a now confirmed investigation, we'd actually have broken the game.

If the scum just kill rofl or one of the non-confirmed on a Tajo townflips, then it works out ok. Tajo dies and we know one scum from the group.

However, if tajo is scum or hides behind town we won't be able to know, and open ourselves up to a loss. In fact, were likely to end up with a tough decision if Tajo lives.

I think a Tajo lynch gives us a better shot by a fair way. If Tajo is town and doesn't find scum under charters system, he'd be lynched and we lose the game.

If he's scum, he lives for another day and draws all the protective roles so they can kill rofl or kmd tonight.

The only way a no lynch is arguably better than a Tajo lynch is if Tajo was telling the truth and dies on scum tonight. And even then we lose rofl or kmd for the
sake of having one confirmed scum in a group teeming with scum.

With a Tajo lynch and town flip, both power roles cop and vig will be protected, and if there is no blocker we will have an investigation on a claimed vanilla. So even in the best case scenario for a no lynch, a Tajo lynch is still very similar for town. Plus there is no chance town Tajo hides behind town and loses us the game whn he's lynched and if Tajo is scum it's much better to lynch tonight.

I went over this in detail before, but hopefully the above is more clear. Tajo is absolutely the best lynch today.

[Yosarian2]

I'm just throwing it out, but if no one else wants to do it, then lynching tajo is fine I guess. I don't think he's scum, but whatever, lynching him guarantees we have another day.

Him not hiding at all also guarantees we have another day. He dosn't actually have to hide, remember.

Also...another problem with your plan is it could also be foiled by a mafia roleblocker. If a mafia roleblocker blocks tajo, then scum kill one of the confirmed town power roles, and tommorow we wake up with 12 people, in what might be lynch or lose, and with tajo still alive.

[charter]

Roleblocker can't block tajo... Hider resolves first.

[Yosarian2]

Roleblocker can't block tajo... Hider resolves first.

Ah...looking back at the rules, it looks like you're right. Interesting.

Anyway, I really still want to just lynch a scum today. If we do anything else, then we may be in lynch or lose, in one of those horrible "one townie ever votes wrong, ever again, at any point in the next 5 days, and town loses instantly" situations. I'd rather avoid that if possible.

[charter]

Fuck it

unvote, vote tajo

[populartajo]

Sorry guys, V/LA until the 28th. Ill try to get some access to comment on this clusterfuck.

I always hate to be lynched for information reasons. Its obv non optymal play from my own pov and I still dont see what is the omg gamebraking strategy you are going to get from my lynch. Even when the majority of people voting me already think Im prob town and there is no a single reason to believe the obvscum claim Pooky just made, but hey I guess there are some things I will never understand.

Just remember to afterlynch Serial and Pooky if I get lynched. I will vote for scum today, thx very much.

Vote: Pooky.

[populartajo]

Hey Serial, what are your thoughts of Pooky?

[Kmd4390]

I think we should have iam and serial target kmd, so it is not possible to kill kmd. Kmd vigs iamausername.

If iam a username is scum, he will die.

Not if he's a scum RB.

Charter, you could very easily be right, but lynching Tajo makes more sense.

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I was gone most of yesterday. Skimmed up on all I missed. Tajo lynch seems like a good idea...though like Elvis, I'm bad at figuring out this sort of thing. After I get some work done this morning, I'll spend some time going over it in more detail in my head. In the meantime,

Unvote

[ekiM]

I'm a Vengeful Townie.

[Yosarian2]

Eh. I still don't think lynching tajo today is a good idea.

Right now, if tajo flips town, we have two confirmed townies from him (charter and rofl), and from rofl, we have two confirmed vanillas (me and VP.) With Tajo and rofl dead tommorow, we only have 3 confirmed townies left, out of a pool of 11 people. (4, if you count KMD, who I also consider confirmed). If there are 5 scum, then that means there will still be 2 unconfirmed town people left, and with 5 scum-votes out of 6 votes to lynch, the odds are, town will end up lynching one of them and losing.

If tajo is town, and we don't lynch him, then we almost certanly win. One more confirmed townie, from either rofl or tajo, and town should autowin. If tajo is town and we lynch him, I think we've got a very good chance of losing.

Now, if tajo is scum, we should lynch him, obviously. But people (people who I think are likely scum, mostly) keep making the argument "we need to lynch tajo today to get information", and that's just completly wrong.

If someone has an ACTUAL argument for why they think Tajo is probably scum, I'd like to hear it. SC's argument sounded like "I think Tajo is scum because he's not letting me lynch rofl, and I really want to", and that just sounds like a scum reaction to me. ANd no one else has really made a case for him being scum at all.

[charter]

Well, if we lynch tajo today, and he's town, then tomorrow we'll still have myself, yosarian, balter, kmd as confirmed town, at the very least.

I also think that if tajo flips town, this confirms iaun as scum, and by extension, elvis, since she fought so hard for his claim.

This means there's probably three scum in

ekiM
PookyTheMagicalBear, replacing alexhans N1
SerialClergyman
Thesp
zu_Faul

I think we could then lynch ekiM and make him venge kill someone else, probably pooky/zu faul. I think we're pretty lucky on the mafia win conditions, it will allow us to lynch ekiM and make him venge kill, I think (though I didn't count the town/scum ratio, we should make sure when we get to this point). If ekiM venge kills the last townie, then we probably lose, but there's a 75% chance he kills scum even if he just picks a number out of a hat.

[Kmd4390]

A claiming vengeful expects to be lynched. ekiM is town.

[charter]

That's dumb, but no need to deal with it right now.

[Kmd4390]

no need to deal with it right now.

true.