Open 163 (Jungle Republic)- Game Over before 835

[Nikanor]

Why hasn't DTM posted anything? He's been online since the topic opened.

[DTMaster]

I've been meaning to do some ISO reads. Excuse the non posting but yes:

1. I've been posting in other games but they haven't required rereads from the night before.

2. I also just finished midterm week.

Vote: DTMaster

for the lack of posting. I want some answers DTM, now scum list please.

[hasdgfas]

I've been meaning to do some ISO reads. Excuse the non posting but yes:

1. I've been posting in other games but they haven't required rereads from the night before.

2. I also just finished midterm week.

Vote: DTMaster

for the lack of posting. I want some answers DTM, now scum list please.

I don't know what to think about this self-vote.

[Nikanor]

I don't know what to think about this self-vote.

DTM self-votes a lot. I wouldn't think anything of it.

[Scott Brosius]

As it stands now, I think DTM is probably hohum's partner, but now is not the time to be looking for wolves. Right now we should be lynching mafia, i.e. Cow.

Do you think hohum's comments about DTM being "obvscum" was an attempt to clear him or just null? What makes you think DTM is wolf?

[Nikanor]

Do you think hohum's comments about DTM being "obvscum" was an attempt to clear him or just null? What makes you think DTM is wolf?

I think that hohum's attack of DTM right after night is obvdistancing. Here's a sample of the conversation they probably had during that night:
hohum: I'm probably going to be lynched today. I'll go after you hard to make you look less wolfy.
DTM: K, I'll bus you.
hohum: K.

[ThAdmiral]

Day 1

Saberwolf

: 7 (

ZazieR

,

Toro

, Scott Brosius, DTMaster, Nikanor,

hohum

, Shotty to the Body)
hohum: 2 (

peacesells

, saberwolf)
DTMaster: 1 (

Kill-kill

)
Scott Brosius: 1 (ThAdmiral)

Not Voting: (hasdgfas)

Day 2

hohum

: 6 (ThAdmiral, Scott Brosius, DTMaster,

Toro

,

peacesells

,

hohum

)

Not Voting: (hasdgfas,

Kill-kill

, Nikanor, Shotty to the Body)

Day 3

Toro

: 5 (Nikanor, ThAdmiral, Shotty to the Body, DTMaster, Scott Brosius)

peacesells

: 1 (hasdgfas)
Nikanor: 1 (

Toro

)

Not Voting: (

peacesells

)


I plan to have a look at all the major wagons as well and how they formed, but just based on this I would say Scott Brosius and DTMaster look most likely to be scum buddies with toro. Not only have they been on every lynch wagon, they voted with toro days one and two (I feel that scumbuddies are more likely to gang up on the same target than not*) and were they final two votes on toro day 3 so could have decided to do a late bus to get scum-hammering points.

* although I doubt they would all vote the same every day so it is more likely that only one of the two are actually partners with toro.

[ThAdmiral]

Also note that hasdfgas has not voted twice and the one time he did have a vote on at the end of the day it was on a townie. Helpful!

[hasdgfas]

Also note that hasdfgas has not voted twice and the one time he did have a vote on at the end of the day it was on a townie. Helpful!

Day 1 I quite literally thought I was voting, and was shocked when day ended and I wasn't.

Day 2 was pretty much "who will vote for hohum?" and I explained why I didn't at the time.

Day 3 I did say why I was voting peacesells over Toro.

[Nikanor]

Day 3 I did say why I was voting peacesells over Toro.

vote: peacesells

A lot of this is gut, but I've had a bad feeling from pretty much the very beginning, based on the way the game has gone. He's seemed a bit too jumpy.

Do you mean that? And actually, you never did say why you were voting peacesells over Toro. You explained why you were voting peacesells (I'm not trying to encapsulate your entire reasoning for voting peacesells within your quote here, because peacesells did do scummy things after your vote that you commented on), but the farthest you went to address the points against Toro was, 'I think he's VI.' You never said why you were voting peacesells over Toro, only why you were voting peacesells. That is scummy. You were pushing a bandwagon on a confirmed townie while avoiding comment on the opposing wagon, which is now confirmed scum.
Cow's desperation to get peacesells in the noose as opposed to Toro reaches a peak when he says this:

EDIT: and now I see peace is, by his own admission, werewolf-hunting, which is blatant selective scumhunting. Lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch.

That is a gross overreaction. Other people have scumhunted selectively on different occassions, and yet only this time does Cow react like this. Just looking at the vote count, I see that Toro was at L-1 at that time. I don't think this is a coincidence. It looks more like Cow is trying to get the non-mafia wagon going before Toro is lynched.

[DTMaster]

Mod: Just making a V/LA note since I'm swamped in homeworks. Will be back Friday/Saturday to post.

Sorry town. Analysis will come later

[Shotty to the Body]

Rereading...

[hasdgfas]

Day 3 I did say why I was voting peacesells over Toro.

vote: peacesells

A lot of this is gut, but I've had a bad feeling from pretty much the very beginning, based on the way the game has gone. He's seemed a bit too jumpy.

Do you mean that? And actually, you never did say why you were voting peacesells over Toro. You explained why you were voting peacesells (I'm not trying to encapsulate your entire reasoning for voting peacesells within your quote here, because peacesells did do scummy things after your vote that you commented on), but the farthest you went to address the points against Toro was, 'I think he's VI.' You never said why you were voting peacesells over Toro, only why you were voting peacesells. That is scummy. You were pushing a bandwagon on a confirmed townie while avoiding comment on the opposing wagon, which is now confirmed scum.
Cow's desperation to get peacesells in the noose as opposed to Toro reaches a peak when he says this:

EDIT: and now I see peace is, by his own admission, werewolf-hunting, which is blatant selective scumhunting. Lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch lynch.

That is a gross overreaction. Other people have scumhunted selectively on different occassions, and yet only this time does Cow react like this. Just looking at the vote count, I see that Toro was at L-1 at that time. I don't think this is a coincidence. It looks more like Cow is trying to get the non-mafia wagon going before Toro is lynched.

I seem to recall calling other people out for selective scumhunting. Maybe I didn't react as strongly, but when it's added to my suspicion of peacesells, I just got way into the heat of the moment.

[DTMaster]

Bah. Sorry I'm going to have to post later. I posted in a couple other games but I got to go to work. Rereading takes a loong time :S

[Shotty to the Body]

I'm happy with my current vote, but the Cow wagon also has many good points. Thanks Nik, scum crossing each other rocks.

[fuzzylightning]

Vote Count #19

Nikanor

: 2

(Shotty to the Body, hasdgfas)

hasdgfas

: 2

(Nikanor, Scott Brosius)

DTMaster

: 1

(DTMaster)

Not Voting

:

(ThAdmiral)

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch

[DTMaster]

K. I can finally comment! Found the time to

@Nik
1. There is a small issue with your obv. distancing theory. Your idea is extremely sub optimal play considering it was day 2 when Hohum was lynched. With a seer running around it becomes a gamble at that point.

That idea is best done when the seer is dead, not the other way around. Considering the fact that the wolf is attempting to target mafia players (ie the scummy townies), I'm thinking he's more comfortable in his seat right now.

@Has
Why didn't you vote Scott? Scott at the start of day 3 was selectively scum hunting for wolf but you let him off the hook. (See ISO 52 onwards) You attacked Peace for the same reasons in ISO 68 but you actually kept your vote on him for this reason. Why?

This to me reads as obv mafia scum from: Has-Scott

@Shotty
What do you mean scum-crossing each other rocks? :S

If we do a NK analysis it looks like wolf is trying to kill mafia but ends up hitting townies (which is the optimal play I outlined before to get Wolf to win I guess). I raise the issue of the double edge sword here. Scum didn't cross kill each other yet. If anything only thing that caught scum is lynching in this game.

[Scott Brosius]

DT: So you think the last werewolf was NOT on hohum's wagon then?

[DTMaster]

@Scott

That's a toughie. But I would consider the following.

a. On day 1 and day 2 Has was pushing for a Hohum lynch for easy distancing. When it came down to it though his votes do not reflect his opinion which reads to me as: he didn't have the stones to follow through with it.

So in a sense I would say look for the guy who appears to be on the wagon but really didn't vote on the wagon. Recall earlier when I addressed Peace on this when he attacked Has. Recall my early request for town to meta Hohum for me.

So post wise: Yes.
Votewise: no

This was my original theory before night went into effect and Toro flipped scum. Now I have conflicted theories:

A wolf-Has or a mafia-has/scott.

Either way Has to me is obv scum.

Unvote

[Shotty to the Body]

[quote="DTM]@Shotty
What do you mean scum-crossing each other rocks? :S

If we do a NK analysis it looks like wolf is trying to kill mafia but ends up hitting townies (which is the optimal play I outlined before to get Wolf to win I guess). I raise the issue of the double edge sword here. Scum didn't cross kill each other yet. If anything only thing that caught scum is lynching in this game.[/quote]
Cross-hunting in the case, I'm okay with either lynch at this point, the case on Has is pretty good as I mentioned before.

[Nikanor]

1. There is a small issue with your obv. distancing theory. Your idea is extremely sub optimal play considering it was day 2 when Hohum was lynched. With a seer running around it becomes a gamble at that point.

What? If people see you as less likely to be a wolf, the seer will be less likely to inspect you. How does that become a gamble?

@Shotty: Please do some actual scumhunting. Thanks.

[Shotty to the Body]

1. There is a small issue with your obv. distancing theory. Your idea is extremely sub optimal play considering it was day 2 when Hohum was lynched. With a seer running around it becomes a gamble at that point.

What? If people see you as less likely to be a wolf, the seer will be less likely to inspect you. How does that become a gamble?

@Shotty: Please do some actual scumhunting. Thanks.

Good defense, attack the player not the argument huh?

[Nikanor]

Good defense, attack the player not the argument huh?

That's not what I'm doing at all, Shotty. You saying that 'cross-voting rocks' isn't helping. You're using the case of a guy who died last night and is now confirmed townie to support your vote on me. That isn't scumhunting. Townies can often be wrong. Your personal justification was a meta attack that doesn't even make sense. I don't remember 'spamming the same sort of stuff on my scumbuddy,' so if you'll point out those posts for me, I'd be much obliged.

[Shotty to the Body]

Let's see we have ISO 51, 56, 67, 71, 72, 77, 78, 95, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 104.

After that Hohum was dead and the first many of your ISO posts were when Hohum was still active. Everyone of those posts your either defending Hohum or calling for prods or activity from him, pretty damning, your obliged btw.

[Nikanor]

After that Hohum was dead and the first many of your ISO posts were when Hohum was still active. Everyone of those posts your either defending Hohum or calling for prods or activity from him, pretty damning, your obliged btw.

Sorry, I meant the game you used as meta. It's pretty clear that I was defending hohum ITT.