/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[Kmd4390]

/confirm

[Kmd4390]

Kmd4390, are you scum?

No.

On a related note, I would have wanted to place a wagon vote on someone, but had no interest in the options available.

Why not?

I am deeply concerned by the continued absence of inHimshallibe, Kmd4390, Ojanen, populartajo, and Shabba. I'd wager there's at least one scum amongst those five players.

I've been working most of the time that the game has been started. 11PM-6:30AM at one job, did more stuff for that job from 8:30AM-9:30AM and my other job from 10AM-3PM. I'm here now. Don't worry. I'm no flaker.

---------------

Vote Elvis_Knits

Not random. Buddies are Bridges, ekiM, and Xyl.

[Kmd4390]

EK is highest on my list. I'm voting the scummiest over the most popular targets.

[Kmd4390]

There are exactly four scum in this game? ORLY?

4 scum plus a traitor.

AND yeah, what BNB said, why not vote xyl when there's a wagon on him.

Already answered this.

I think this is a potential slip, because I don't think the rules say the number of scum, so I don't knwo why KMD picked that number of people as the scum team. Arbitrary or informed?

I actually thought we had 16 players and assumed 25%, but I see we have 20 and the possibility of a traitor, so I'm gonna sound smart and say I wasn't including a traitor in that lol.

Also, it does not make a lot of sense for Xyl and BNB to be buddies anyway since she started the wagon.

Shit, you're right. Scum can't start wagons on each other in the RVS. Damn.

I'm thinking this is possibly KMD trying to tie xyl buddy to townies.

Nah. I'd rather lynch you or Bridges first. Xyl can wait.

[Kmd4390]

It doesn't. It was my assumption.

[Kmd4390]

Bridges, why just the HoS? Is the Xyl wagon really more important? If so, why?

[Kmd4390]

It was my assumption.

This does not sound like it was an assumption:

There are exactly four scum in this game? ORLY?

4 scum plus a traitor.

Why doesn't it sound like an assumption? Would scum really say "yeah, I know the number of scum. It's right here in my Role PM." Nah. (Yes, I'm using WIFOM and to defend myself no less. Deal with it.)

I asked you if there were EXACTLY four scum in the game. You did not say, "uh, that's what I assumed." You said "4 scum plus a traitor." That is not an assumption. You told me it was fact.

Quote where I told you it was a fact. I didn't I answered your question based on the assumption I made.

^^ that would suggest 5 mafia if you were going to assume the sample PMs are literal. If you were assuming you should assume 5, but I think we shouldn't assume anything.

Hey, I said 4 plus a traitor. That's 5. Guess I was right.

So you definitively stating four is evidence of extra info. Info only scum would have.

THIS IS A SLIP, PPL.

unvote, vote kmd

Wow. Too funny.

Also, it does not make a lot of sense for Xyl and BNB to be buddies anyway since she started the wagon.

Shit, you're right. Scum can't start wagons on each other in the RVS. Damn.

That's right, because the first waggon of the game always ends with a lynch...

I was using sarcasm to show how bad EK's statement was.

he says it's not random, doesn't give reasons for voting me or for the other three being partners, (plus the slip stuff which you may not see). But are we really in the business of letting players name the scum team without giving any reasons whatsoever? There's no indication he's joking there. He says it's "not random."

Yeah, it wasn't random. It was gut. Those were the 4 players who stood out as scum.

Yes I have. One that I remember we were scum buddies in Mirth's mini Congratulations You Are Mafia. I think he's good at scum. I think his talent is talking himself out of situations, he can be persuasive. BUT, I don't think he's above making mistakes. He's just really good at talking himself out of trouble. In the game I referenced, he made a mistake on the first page. He put a third vote on zazie and said "not a bandwagon vote." Which was him getting on a bandwagon but saying that wasn't his reason. Which shows he's aware what he's doing is scummy, but he's doing it anyway... "like don't attack me for this -- it's not scum motivated, I swear!" Yeah, and he was scum.

Actually, my response to that was genuine. I had voted Zazie (this was in the RVS) because, well, it was Zazie. I pointed out that this was my reasoning because it was. I specifically mentioned that it wasn't just a bandwagon vote because I wanted to specify that it was for the purpose of voting Zazie, not for the purpose of bandwagoning. So that action really wasn't scum motivated even if I did happen to be scum. Also, what you call my best talent is actually the weakness I have been trying to fix since I first started playing mafia. I don't respond well to pressure at all regardless of alignment. I actually think my best talent as scum is looking town and getting the lynch I want. Too bad I couldn't get Isacc lynched in that game though.

Kmd, why'd you name me as a buddy to Elvis then not mention me ever again?

All of my posts after that were to respond to people. Nobody said anything about you.

Optional elements will be in brackets.

So we don't know the number of scum. Well, town doesn't. I obviously am scum who knows we have 5. Really though, I'd say 4 or 5. Still thinking 4 plus a traitor.

[Kmd4390]

kmd, what made you think there were only 16 players?

No clue. Can I blame lack of sleep?

KMD, if you are saying your statement of "4 scum plus a traitor" was your assumption, why did you assume that?

Well, 4 or 5 made the most sense for balance. I figure a traitor being the 5th is reasonable, so that was my guess.

And I want reasons for your scum list. Saying it's your gut is not good enough.

Ok, just know that it's weak as hell.

You- Started out with the "last to confirm" tell. I usually see that as an excuse to look like you are scumhunting. After you throw those names out, you joke around a little without voting for a few posts. Not even a vote on those last players to confirm that you pointed out. Then you have a random vote with no reason, just to replace it with a joke reason next post. This is where I vote you and you go all OMGUS "SCUM SLIP YOU SAID WE HAVE 4 SCUM. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT" on me.

Bridges- The bandwagon Xyl vote looked pretty mindless and it was the only thing he'd mentioned until I voted EK. Then he switched, apparently because I made him rethink his stance. But he told me on AIM a while back that I'm not a good mafia player (yes, this assumes that Bridges is Shea. I believe his is.), so why would he be rethinking stances on players based on what I say like that? He's buddying to me thinking he can make me feel he is town. So, just like EK, it's something small at first, but I don't like the reaction.

Xyl-Too passive to start. He was posting one-liners that didn't really say much.

ekiM-Here are his posts. 1, confirm. 2, some shit about tree stumps. 3, says he doesn't have any scumbuddies and random votes. 4, lurker callout. Wagers that there is a scum on the list. Wagons Xyl, who is not on the list. So basically, I don't like that he hadn't added anything when he called out lurkers or that he gave a list that he thought included scum and voted off the list without giving a better reason.

So EK, BaB, and ekiM are buddies. Xyl is a traitor. I just need to find one more. I think it's inHim.

[Kmd4390]

:nod:

BTW, conferring that you think it's me.

Which am I buddying up to the most? Or am I treasonous?

Care to guess?

I said that in confirmations. It was a joke. I didn't act on it. Why was I supposed to be scum hunting in confirmations?

Fair enough.

My first post of the game was a vote on inhim. What is your problem with that? The posts before my vote on inhim were during confirmations.

Heh, guess I found scum by mistake then.

As I have explained my vote on Xyl was not a joke vote... although I did make a joke. So you can see it that way if you want, I guess. But that's not what it was.

Why give a joke reason for a serious vote?

Kmd, this is for you

Can't open links on this computer... People link me on AIM all the time and I have to tell them it doesn't work.

[Kmd4390]

Rofl, I was probably one of the last to send my list in. I mostly just put players on it who I've enjoyed playing with or have heard of but never played with. I didn't put a lot of time into the "month long process" and almost didn't even play. Using the logic that everyone here must have been more excited for the game than any other game isn't a good basis for suspicions. (Note that I do want to play, just I didn't exactly go "OMG Invitational!" over it).

[Kmd4390]

Rofl, look what we are talking about here.

There are exactly four scum in this game? ORLY?

4 scum plus a traitor.

EK makes a statement that obviously isn't a serious question. What would scum really say? "Yeah, my Role PM says so"? I was being a sarcastic prick. EK continued to question me about the number of scum after that, I don't remember my thinking. I was probably running on 24-36 hours straight being awake. That's about my average.

[Kmd4390]

It's not an attempt at humor. Like I said, it's me being a sarcastic prick. Like a "how can you possibly make a definitive statement like what you'd have to in order to answer that question. Ok, like this." kind of thing.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't think you were joking. I thought you were asking a .. loaded(?) question. Basically, I think the question was more of an accusation than a question. One with no right answer. One that makes someone look scummy regardless of how they answer it. So I answered with sarcasm.

[Kmd4390]

Seemed obvious. *shrug*

[Kmd4390]

Can't open links on this computer... People link me on AIM all the time and I have to tell them it doesn't work.

I find this difficult to accept. Please explain this technical limitation.

They freeze up my computer because they open a new window.

[Kmd4390]

I'd still back my original statement naming the scum team. Just sayin'.

Unvote, Vote Bridge

[Kmd4390]

Iam, why Rofl?

Bridge, Rofl didn't say you were using AtPN to defend yourself. He said it's a bad excuse for anything. That means it's bad logic to say that EK and Xyl won't be lynched because their wagons were too early.

Saw the claim. I'm probably going to take flak for this, but I don't see scum fakeclaiming vanilla near a lynch on Day 1.

Unvote, Vote EK

Does anyone else get the vibe from Yos's posts that he is overexplaining himself and doesn't seem to be playing up to his normal level? Just something I've noticed. Not sure why.

New scumteam: EK, ekiM, Inhim, Yos, Xyl.

[Kmd4390]

Rofl, I read 298 after I decided Bridge is probably town, and it hasn't changed my mind.

And I didn't say they can't. I just don't see Bridge doing it. He'd be more likely to claim a power role as scum instead of laying down and taking a lynch. That's unless he's being bussed hard, and is ok with being lynched, but I still think he'd fight it and try to get a mislynch for today.

Also, in response to 302, EK isn't just "the most viable alternative wagon". EK is, and has been practically all game, my top suspect.

[Kmd4390]

Also, this is the worst reason to not lynch someone I have ever heard in my life.

Thinking someone is town is a bad reason to unvote?

[Kmd4390]

Does anyone else get the vibe from Yos's posts that he is overexplaining himself and doesn't seem to be playing up to his normal level?

Just something I've noticed. Not sure why.

Yes.

?

How am I "overexplaining" myself or "not playing up to my normal level"?

See the bolded. I'm not sure why, but it seems that way to me.

[Kmd4390]

He was pressured and forced to claim. If he claimed any of the other roles in the mod post #2, he would have been forced to demonstrate the ability he was claiming, plus he would have been at a

high risk of a counterclaim.

I don't understand why you think a scum claiming vanilla is unlikely there; it's basically what I would expect to do in that situation.

it is possible that a role may appear more than once.

ANYONE COUNTERCLAIMING AT ANY TIME IS TERRIBLE PLAY. I WOULDN'T DO IT AND WOULD BE PISSED OFF AT ANYONE WHO DID

Vote: Yos

- I would also be happy voting Thesp or Ekim. I would not mind a Xyl, E_K or SerialClergy wagon. I'll give details when BaB gets out of his ass and posts a scumlist.

Why Thesp?

but if you unvote BAB on the strength of a vanilla claim... you are scum. Ahem, KMD.

1) Why would Bridge claim vanilla as scum? It makes no sense.
2) Didn't your vanilla claim save your ass in the Family Guy mini? Why haven't you brought that up knowing that I was in that game, saw Llama clear a claimed vanilla, and saw you eventually flip vanilla?

Even though these are somewhat snarky questions, I'd like KMD to answer them.

A vanilla claim from a scummy person should cement their lynch, honestly. I mean, if you're not lynching a vanilla, who would you go through with the lynch on? Keep the claimed vanilla, kill the claimed doc? Because we think scum would fake a power role?

Quote function is screwed up on me, but this works..

Anyway. Until someone gives me a reason why scum would have motivation to claim vanilla here, knowing that vanillas are almost always lynched when they claim at L-1/L-2, and knowing that they won't be countered (or shouldn't be at least), I won't vote Bridge.

Yeah, I don't really have a good vibe from Shabba at the moment. It also kind of freaks me out the way multiple people came out of the woodwork to attack me for either no reason at all or apparently just because I was voting her.

You obviously aren't pushing very hard. I even forgot who you were voting. This is NOT consistent with your meta.

Yos is a very smart, very rational person. I don't believe he would accidentally

exagerate

"10 days" into "stall teh game for weeks."

I also don't think he would do something as stupid as to not let someone get the chance to speak, if I turn up town, you get to see my opinions. If I turn up scum, you can use the info to find out who my buddies are.

Ok, while I

do

think you are town AND Yos is scum, I have to point this out.
1) Deadline

is

"weeks" away. I think Yos was referring to the deadline, not the 10 days you asked for.
2) If you flip scum, I'm ignoring everything after your vanilla claim. Scum who is aware he is dying can mislead much easier than scum who plans on living.

. . . But if I come up scum, they are pro-town, remember, there's no such thing as bussing Day 1.

Bullshit.

Mini 628.

the WIFOM, it burns me

I wouldn't use WIFOM if I was scum.

I use WIFOM as town.

(See my reasons for thinking you are town)

Thesp, when do you plan to enclose your reasons for heartily endorsing the BaB wagon (now and originally)?

3 - Sure. I think elvis_knits's suspicion of Kmd3490 is genuine. The manner in which BridgesAndBaloons approached elvis_knits suggests to me that he's trying to exploit the suspicion on the number of people.

Also, I think Herodotus outed himself as B&B's partner.

Wait, how is he outing himself?

[Kmd4390]

Vote EK

.

Can we do it right this time?

[Kmd4390]

Mostly the reaction to my initial vote.

[Kmd4390]

I could support some pressure on Serial.

[Kmd4390]

Yos, she seemed to be trying to push the "slip" too hard and has backed off now that people aren't following it.

[Kmd4390]

EK, people didn't seem to believe the slip yesterday. You backed off of it. That is the impression I get for your reasoning, and I obviously don't expect you to admit that.

Yos, I'm fine with pushing hard. I'm not fine with pushing a "slip" hard.

I explained it accurately. I did assume 4 scum and maybe a traitor. I didn't say it was a joke. EK did. The sarcasm was the certainty of the statement, not the statement itself.

I'll use lack of sleep as an excuse for anything lately. Even outside of mafia.

[Kmd4390]

(shrug) People told her you were kidding, and she basically blinked and said "What? Really?" and then stopped attacking you on that issue. Not sure how that's supposed to be a scum move.

Fair enough.

Unvote

. Not that I was joking or anything.

And based on your reaction, I strongly suspect that you're mostly just not fine with someone pushing "a slip" hard against you.

See Family Guy where Charter insisted that Wolf had slipped. I called it BS all game. Charter and Wolf were both scum. Kinda funny looking back. But you can pull my reaction from that game if you'd like.

Anyway, the biggest thing right now is KMD's vote for elvis today. There's no way that makes sense at this point if KMD is town; it seems entierly based on a "Elvis attacked me yesterday so I'm going to vote her" attitude that's just inherently scummy.

Now it's OMGUS? Didn't I vote her first?

--------------

V/LA for two weeks. I'll check in on Thursday.

[Kmd4390]

So I got quick laptop access. Here's a post.

See Family Guy where Charter insisted that Wolf had slipped. I called it BS all game. Charter and Wolf were both scum. Kinda funny looking back. But you can pull my reaction from that game if you'd like.

OMG I forgot that one -- I was in that game too. Charter and wolf were both scum, but that only means wolf DID MAKE A SLIP. So you remember that one, kmd, so you know it is possible for scum to make slips. Doesn't that make you rethink your position about slips being BS?

I still call that BS. Charter called out a slip KNOWING that it came from scum. It's not legit.

Zu, what point did Yos make against me that you agree with?

Yos, yeah, I pretty much always disagree with slips. And I am usually skeptical of them being called on because they give an excuse to not do much else (again, see Charter in Family Guy), but EK has done more, hence the unvote.

And no, my reason for voting was because she was my top suspect yesterday.

Top suspects:
ekiM
Yos

[Kmd4390]

I don't OMGUS as scum. I tell people they are town for pursuing a case they believe. And my reason for suspecting you is more the gut feeling that you aren't playing to your meta.

[Kmd4390]

That was the only reason KMD gave at the time, and that was the reason he defended for the rest of day 1 (with fairly absurd and easily disprovable statements he kept repeating, like "scum never claim vanilla" and such.)

Um. Wow. Just wow. My argument was "scum never claim vanilla"? Really?!? Could have sworn I used specifics from the setup of this game like the fact that several of the same power role may exist, so a counterclaim wouldn't mean one is scum, and scum would have been dumb to claim vanilla when facing a Day 1 lynch. The only exception is if someone bussed so hard that the lynch had to happen for that person to gain town points. This is why Bridge was so obvtown after he claimed vanilla.

What kmd did is direct continuation from what he did yesterday.

You keep saying that, and so does he, but I'm not getting how that's supposed to be a valid defense for him, or how that makes him more town.

Well how is it scummy? I think it's null. More of a playstyle tell than anything.

And I didn't say they can't. I just don't see Bridge doing it. He'd be more likely to claim a power role as scum instead of laying down and taking a lynch. That's unless he's being bussed hard, and is ok with being lynched, but I still think he'd fight it and try to get a mislynch for today.

4) Any reason why you felt that BAB would OMGUS you specifically out of the entire rest of the wagon?

What gives you the impression that I felt he'd OMGUS me?

kmd 553 includes meh answers to yos, bs slip debate and an unvote for elvis. What was the point of voting her then?

I don't OMGUS as scum. I tell people they are town for pursuing a case they believe. And my reason for suspecting you is more the gut feeling that you aren't playing to your meta.

Kmd, what games are you using as meta information?

Thought she was scum then changed my mind.

Not using any specific games. You can check my scum games if you'd like though.

Vote: KMD

KMD, did you think there was any chance of the BAB wagon derailing yesterday? If not, why did you unvote?

I unvoted because I was pretty sure he was town.

----------------

Sorry for the rushed post. Taking what time I can get.

[Kmd4390]

Shit! Just lost my whole post. Ok, doing this the ghetto way. ekiM is scum. I basically just agreed with Rofl and voted.

Vote ekiM

. Serial wagon makes no sense. People are beating a dead horse about my unvote on Bridge by saying I distanced from the wagon when I

expected

to take heat, but I didn't want to lynch someone who I thought was town.

And Tajo, Medeival is my only completed game with TownYos.

[Kmd4390]

I still think vanilla is the most likely claim a flustered scum who finds himself in trouble day 1 would make; claiming something else might stall the lynch, but you tend to get trapped by your own claim the end. That happened to Tajo in lynch all lurkers, for example; he claimed tracker as scum day 1, and then despite really strong scum play on his part for the rest of the game, his tracker claim ended up getting him caught in the end.

Claiming anything other then vanillia on day 1 is just a really high-risk move for scum to make; sometimes they take that chance, but I don't believe that scum are less likely to claim vanilla then something else.

Why are you ignoring the fact that several of the same power role can exist in this game?

Well how is it scummy? I think it's null. More of a playstyle tell than anything.

Eh. Today, you made a decision that I don't agree with, a decision to vote for Elvis, who seems pretty townish to me. I don't see how "I voted her yesterday too" is a logical reason for town to make that decision; I honestly don't see how consistency is a relevant defense here. I don't really think you other reasons for voting her made sense either.

I usually follow with my original reads unless something changes my mind. At that time, nothing had done so.

One main argument against KMD was based on his unvote in response to a vanilla claim, and I did say that that was a scummy move when he did it on day 1.

But you didn't mention this as a reason for voting me. You said you voted me for the Ek vote.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not going to talk about scum fakeclaims. It's over and done with. Bridge was a VT. His claim had me sure of that, so I unvoted. I feel like anything I say will help scum more than town, so I'm done discussing that.

EK seemed scummy to me. Mostly gut. I now think there's a decent chance I'm wrong, so I'm dropping it for now.

Ok, I must have missed that. My bad.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote: Battle Mage
Vote: SpyreX

(L-3)

Hmm. This is a bit of a... swing vote? If BM is scum, here's a connection. If Spy is scum, Vi is very likely town.

Kmd4390 - gut, meta arguments (i dont remember kmdtown being ironic), elvisvote early is terrible, elvisunvote is odd. backs up his yos hate with yos meta that I still dont get.

ironic how?

So, is that the game you are using to metasuspect Yos?

I guess. Just, on Day 1, he seemed more like a back seat player than normal. That's not really true for Day 2 so far though, so I don't know. I think we are more likely to hit scum in ekiM than Yos.

Final Vote Count:

11 to lynch.

BridgesAndBaloons

: 11 (charter, ekiM, elvis_knits, iamausername,

inHimshallibe

, populartajo, roflcopter, SerialClergyman, Thesp, VP Baltar, Yosarian2)
ekiM: 3 (

BridgesAndBaloons

,

Claus

, Xylthixlm)
elvis_knits: 2 (Kmd4390, zu_Faul)

Claus

: 1 (alexhans)
Thesp: 1 (

Herodotus

)

Not Voting: 2 (Ojanen,

Shabba

)

IGMEO Thesp.

If this VC was in order of votes, I'd be able to find some scum from it...

is anyone around right now?

1)Why do people need to be around? Lay out some opinions.
2)People were posting. Why not follow this up with something.

Scummiest to towniest list

DIESCUMDIE:
EkiM

bet there are some scum in:
PookyTheMagicalBear
Yosarian2
zu_Faul
charter

I can't make up my mind on:
Xylthixlm
iamausername
elvis_knits

Town I think:
VP Baltar
populartajo
roflcopter

Obvtown:
SerialClergyman
Ojanen
Thesp
Kmd4390

[Kmd4390]

Serial, I can't elaborate on why, but I don't think your lurking was scummy and that was the case against you for a while. The way people have jumped on you worries me a bit. Pretty sure 1-2 scum are voting you right now.

[Kmd4390]

Posting this in all my games. After I leave my house around 4:45 EST tomorrow morning, I won't be home to post until Tuesday. Whether I post before then or not depends on whether or not I get brief laptop access.

[Kmd4390]

Guess what. Laptop access. Let's see what I can do.

Serial, I can't elaborate on why, but I don't think your lurking was scummy and that was the case against you for a while. The way people have jumped on you worries me a bit. Pretty sure 1-2 scum are voting you right now.

Bah, I see you answered that here. And by "answered that" I mean that you gave a response with no actual reason/answer.

I find this response very scummy because you discount the lurking (which is scummy) and then rain on the parade of people who are actually trying to do something in this game, and make vague accusations about 1-2 people on the wagon being scum.

What about the way people have "jumped" on serial worries you? If you think 1-2 scum are on the wagon, which 1-2?

Ok, now that the game is over, Mafia 96. Serial was more active there and I was suspicious of him. Turns out he was scum. The main case against him was lurking, right? I think he's town and scum jumped on him for lurking.

KMD

Please explain:

• Which claims would NOT have prompted an unvote from you yesterday.
  
• Why you barely tried to detail the BAB wagon after unvoting.
  
• At what point you became suspicious of me.
  
• Why you are voting for me.

-I don't know. I've already explained over and over again why scum wouldn't have claimed vanilla.
-V/LA
-first couple of pages
-I think you are scum.

----------------------

VP wagon came out of nowhere. I think he's town, but the claim has nothing to do with that. I can see scum claiming vanilla now that Bridge was obvtown due to his claim.

---------------------

Tajo, you wanted my Yosmeta. A newb game just ended where I knew he was town because I was scum. So that's half of what I was using.

[Kmd4390]

Xyl, who of ekiM/VP would you rather lynch?

Same question to Charter, Rofl, Yos, and Pooky.

[Kmd4390]

Ironic in the sense I dont remember any game from you where you were ironic to make a point. Like the first batch of your post day 1.

I meant how was I being ironic?

I dont see how this is related to the meta you used to suspect Yos. Care to elaborate?

He isn't playing how he played in Medieval and the Newbie game in my sig. Or at least wasn't on Day 1.

If this VC was in order of votes, I'd be able to find some scum from it...

Gogogo.

Need it in order first..

-You must have thought about this in some detail, so you should be able to tell me which claims scum might make; and which ones don't merit an unvote.
-k.
-And that's been persistant, or piqued by something else recently?
-Why?

-Actually, I didn't.
----
-persistent.
-Mostly gut.

You have reminded me that KMD hasn't actually responded to my question though; KMD, you've explained why you unvoted BaB, but why were you voting him in the first place?

He was scummy and seemed like a good lynch at the time.

[Kmd4390]

Rofl, V/LA. When I get back on the 8th, I'll find the time to do it.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Pooky

I agree with Iamasarian2.

[Kmd4390]

Tajo, scum are as follows:
ekiM, Pooky, Yos, and if we have 4 scum, one of Charter/Zu, if five scum, then both. Not in any particular order.

[Kmd4390]

What is the case on me?

[Kmd4390]

Rofl, I don't have the votes in order. If I have time to do my own vote counts for the entire 46 pages some time soon, I'll do it. Until then, I have no analysis.

EK, blame Ether. Or you can blame Kise for losing an avatar bet to me. The avatar is there until I lose a new bet.

Yos, I was V/LA, so I didn't have much choice but to "vanish". I'm back now though and am ready to respond to more than just the bare minimum like I've been limited to recently.

[Kmd4390]

kmd, i'd like to refer you to this post and ask you to pay more attention to the game and do the votecount analysis (or any analysis whatsoever) instead of sitting on your hands.

Wow, missed that. Now all I have to do is find out where everyone else was voting at the time and I can find me some scum. Thanks Xyl!

Pooky, when did I say VP and Rofl are scum? I agree with Iam that we need some votes on you, not with ALL of his reads.

So all three players voting me either have solid scumreads on TWO other players or a decent idea, but are choosing to hatevote a noncontributor without even explaining what they want me to contribute?

Actually, your lack of contribution is exactly why I have a scum read on you. You haven't given opinions on players/events along with reasons for said opinions. Why do you need specifics before you can contribute? You've been around long enough to know how the game works.

[Kmd4390]

Let me quote the part I agree with.

Pooky has given us absolutely nothing, and that needs to stop.

[Kmd4390]

Hmm. The way my top suspects (ekiM, Pooky, Yos) are spread out in EK's scumlist kind of bothers me.

[Kmd4390]

Scum tend to spread their buddies around in those lists.

[Kmd4390]

Pooky, so I'm scum for what, exactly? Voting you?

[Kmd4390]

Tell me where I said VP was scum.

[Kmd4390]

Let me quote the part I agree with.

Pooky has given us absolutely nothing, and that needs to stop.

[Kmd4390]

EK, I didn't feel the need to specify. I didn't assume that "I agree" means "I agree with absolutely everything".

[Kmd4390]

I just isoskimmed Charter. He's town.

[Kmd4390]

Rofl, what haven't I done that you'd like me to?

[Kmd4390]

Rofl, as soon as I have time to go through the entire game and do my own vote counts, I'll do it.

[Kmd4390]

Rofl, I need to go through almost 50 pages and see every vote and where they were at the end of each day. Two wagons alone won't do it. I'll do it though. Probably Tuesday. Some day when I'm sitting around bored as hell looking for something to do.

[Kmd4390]

Rofl and Serial aren't scum. Let's lynch someone else.

[Kmd4390]

I think VP is town. Not as convinced as I am on Serial or Rofl, but still leaning town.

[Kmd4390]

Iam, if you have reason to believe Rofl is scum that isn't right in front of us, just say so.

VP, I could go for ekiM if the support is there. I want to see what Iam may or may not have on Rofl first though.

[Kmd4390]

Am not.

[Kmd4390]

Leaning town.

[Kmd4390]

I'm gonna update this:

Scummiest to towniest list

DIESCUMDIE:
EkiM

bet there are some scum in:
PookyTheMagicalBear
Yosarian2
zu_Faul
charter

I can't make up my mind on:

Xylthixlm

iamausername
elvis_knits

Town I think:
VP Baltar
populartajo
roflcopter

Obvtown:
SerialClergyman

Ojanen

Thesp
Kmd4390

Scummiest to towniest list

DIESCUMDIE:
PookyTheMagicalBear

Scum:
Yosarian2 (town if Rofl has role based info)
EkiM
zu_Faul

Read pending possible role based info:
iamausername
roflcopter

Town I think:
VP Baltar
elvis_knits
populartajo
SerialClergyman

Obvtown:
charter
Thesp
Kmd4390

[Kmd4390]

Second, kmd is prob scum. He is using the wrong reason to suspect Pooky. (Pooky is scum for lurking) How the hell can you diferentiate Pooky lurker town than Pooky lurker scum?

There are two different kinds of lurking. There is the inability to keep up with a game, which is a nulltell. Then there's strategical lurking. Having the ability to post thoughts, but not doing so. I see Pooky, who has been around a while, doing this, and consider it scummy.

@KMD: Weird, the only times you mention my name is in those lists; if I am so scummy as you claim, why have you neither told anyone before nor told any reasons as for why I am this high in that list.

Gut.

[Kmd4390]

Seems pretty solid.

Iam, any reason to believe Rofl is lying?

[Kmd4390]

So Iam claims to have jailed Rofl, who claimed a result on the same night, but Iam says it's NOT damning and wants to lynch Yos?

A) How is it not damning if true?
B) If Rofl was jailed, why would he lie about it knowing he'd be caught?
C) How the hell does this translate to a Yos vote?
D) Iam is scum.

Unvote, Vote Iamausername

[Kmd4390]

A isn't very likely.
B, he wouldn't have gotten a result.
C makes no sense. "I'm gonna lynch the cop's innocent result in case I was RB'd". No.
D, I've followed. I'm pretty sure I'm right.

[Kmd4390]

If rofl is scum, this would not differentiate that night from any other night. scumrofl would not know he was jailed.

So if this is the only plausible explanation, how is your evidence against Rofl not damning?

If you accept the premise that rofl and Yos must either both be town or both be scum, it makes perfect sense. And I still maintain that it makes no sense for scumrofl to gamble on Yos being vanilla. There is absolutely no benefit to doing that instead of claiming regular cop, and there's no drawback to claiming regular cop instead. So there is no reason for rofl to take that risk, unless it wasn't a risk, because he already knew Yos would claim vanilla, because Yos is his scum partner.

The whole 'lynch Yos instead' thing was a stray thought that occurred to me while I was typing up my claim post, I thought (and still do think) it made sense, so I added it in. I am totally regretting that thought at this point because apparently it makes me scum, somehow, but whatever, if I have to be lynched first to start the house of cards falling, so be it.

It just makes more sense to lynch someone who should be caught scum than to lynch the player who you are connecting to the "caught" scum.

If I were in iamausername's claimed position I'd definitely be staking the game on rofl being scum. I wouldn't be thinking "well if he IS telling the truth and we only lynch vanilla yos, maybe we can still win somehow...". It's just so marginal. Also, if you think they're lovers why do you care which we kill?

/agree.

Also, annoying white screen. I'm not liking this...

Tag fixed. - Mod

[Kmd4390]

OMG

I just had a seriously awesome revelation (if I do say so myself).

Rofl was all about the bridges lynch, even after he claimed vanilla. Which made sense to me at the time... I agreed. But if his role has the specific ability to detect vanilla, don't you think he would have wanted to check bridges instead? Or possibly wavered since he knew he had the specific ability to prove bridges right or wrong?

ROFL: Why did you favor lynching vanilla bridges if you have the ability to check vanilla status?

Good point. Interested in Rofl's response.

[Kmd4390]

I'll take green.

[Kmd4390]

Pooky, what do you think of Rofl/Iam?

[Kmd4390]

Why is Iam still alive?

[Kmd4390]

I don't know who moving against iam is town, but please stop and consider this point, and the lack of response to it. And look at who you're lining up with, and if they really look like a crowd full of townies.

iamausername: 4 (charter, Kmd4390, PookyTheMagicalBear, roflcopter)

Charter is town. I am town. Pooky is scum. Rofl depends on Iam.

roflcopter: 4 (ekiM, elvis_knits, iamausername, SerialClergyman)

You (ekiM) are scum. EK, I have no idea anymore. Iam depends on Rofl. Serial is town.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote rofl

. ekiM actually raises a good point. One of the two needs to be lynched today anyway. Let's just lynch rofl and see what happens.

[Kmd4390]

we also dont have a read or a solid opinion on players like kdm and pooky

why not?

Fuck it. Im claiming. Hider. N1 I hided with rolf. N2 I hided with charter.

Unvote

Assuming we believe tajo, it means tajo, charter, rofl, yosarian, and VP are all town. That means there are four or five scum in
ekiM
elvis_knits
iamausername
Kmd4390
PookyTheMagicalBear, replacing alexhans N1
SerialClergyman
Thesp
zu_Faul

Right.

ekiM, EK, Iam, Pooky, and Zu is a list that contains all of the scum. Serial and Thesp are town.

So, now we can actually lynch charter or pooky?

If you want to lynch Charter, you have to lynch Tajo for fakeclaiming first. Charter is NOT today's lynch.

I don't see what's insane about Tajo's move as scum.

If Rofl is scum, especially with Yos or VP, and Tajo is scum, he just "cleared" some of his buddies.

Also if tajo, charter, rofl, yosarian, and VP are ALL town then the Xyl wagon was at least 5/8 town. And I strongly think Elvis is town. So that'd be 6/8. WTF?

Wait, who was on this? *Checks*

Xylthixlm: 8 (charter, elvis_knits, PookyTheMagicalBear, populartajo, roflcopter, VP Baltar, Yosarian2, zu_Faul

So, removing Tajo (assuming his claim to be true for now) and the players he just cleared if he's telling the truth, here's the Xyl lynch (not in order):
Xylthixlm: 8 (elvis_knits, PookyTheMagicalBear, zu_Faul)

Vote Zu_Faul

.

[Kmd4390]

And because of deadline, I'm going to claim before I get too close to a lynch. I am the X-shot vig who shot Inhim. If I have more shots, I'll shoot Tajo tonight. Night 2 went from September 4 to September 8. I was V/LA from late August to September 8. If I have more shots, there's a good chance I didn't get around to looking closely enough at the game the use one on N2.

[Kmd4390]

If Tajo is still alive tomorrow, we'll discuss that then.

[Kmd4390]

Zu is the best lynch today.

[Kmd4390]

No, we have to make pooky claim because he does awesome fake claims. It should be hilarious.

Really? I wanna see a Pooky claim now. But it's a semi-open setup, so how much can he really do?

[Kmd4390]

I'd support massclaim.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Tajo

. We need his flip ASAP. If he is still alive tomorrow, there are still questions as to why. For example, I could be RB'd. Not worth trying to figure out. If Tajo is town, we can lynch through Charter's list.

[Kmd4390]

I think we should have iam and serial target kmd, so it is not possible to kill kmd. Kmd vigs iamausername.

If iam a username is scum, he will die.

Not if he's a scum RB.

Charter, you could very easily be right, but lynching Tajo makes more sense.

[Kmd4390]

A claiming vengeful expects to be lynched. ekiM is town.

[Kmd4390]

no need to deal with it right now.

true.

[Kmd4390]

A claiming vengeful expects to be lynched. ekiM is town.

That's so basic WIFOM it almost makes me angry.

What of it?

[Kmd4390]

Well, I wouldn't say never, but I don't see it here. But still, what of it?

[Kmd4390]

For clarity, I'm not saying "how is that WIFOM?", I'm saying "What's wrong with WIFOM?"

[Kmd4390]

Charter, who is that directed at?

EK, completely agree about Zu being scum.

[Kmd4390]

Charter, how do you not know from all the AIM conversations we've had in the past that I see WIFOM as a useful tool?

[Kmd4390]

Heh. Yeah, I thought Zazie was a cop there. Oh well, I screwed up. XD

Yeah, if needed, lynching him and letting him shoot could help us out if we go down your list. I'd probably even support that. I'm just saying he's very likely to be town.

[Kmd4390]

Noting that Iam wants to no lynch. Probably scum.

Zu is scum. EK and ekiM are town.

[Kmd4390]

Deadline is tomorrow. A Pooky lynch isn't going to happen.

[Kmd4390]

Pooky would need 4 votes in the next day to be lynched. Tajo only needs 2. You might as well be pushing a no lynch right now.

[Kmd4390]

I don't think Tajo is town. The main reason is that implies that probably at least 3 of Elvis, Thesp, SC, and iamausername are scum.

Why so confident Zu is town?

[Kmd4390]

Never mind. You said 3, so you allow for 1-2 more scum. Ignore that.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not switching this close to deadline.

[Kmd4390]

The names on the Pooky wagon are making me uncomfortable. Most of them are confirmed by a Tajo town flip where a Tajo scum flip means they could still be scum. Pooky seems like the scapegoat.

[Kmd4390]

Tempted to hammer even though Tajo is the better lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Roflcopter

SC, no I didn't shoot last night. We need Rofl to claim a result on the off chance he's town and I didn't want to jump the gun on Yos just yet.

[Kmd4390]

k, a Rofl lynch is fine now. If he's town somehow, Thesp goes tomorrow. Assuming Rofl is scum, Yos and Zu both need to go. Then probably Thesp. This assumes no suicides. If there's still a scum alive by then, it's probably VP.

[Kmd4390]

I don't know of any roleblocker. I didn't shoot last night.

Rofl is scum almost for sure. Pretty sure Zu is scum. Thesp's last post has me confident he is scum. Yos, I'm less sure of, but still pretty confident.

[Kmd4390]

Clarification: Still pretty confident Yos is scum. Just less so than Rofl/Zu/Thesp.

[Kmd4390]

If rofl is town:

charter

ekiM

elvis_knits

Kmd4390

PookyTheMagicalBear

roflcopter

SerialClergyman

Thesp

VP Baltar

Yosarian2

zu_Faul

I include myself and ekim in this list, since we can easily confirm ourselves. I include SC since he's pretty much the towniest person here and he's most likely going to die protecting kmd.

I'm not buying this as our remaining four scum. I think Elvis is town, and I think Pooky is probably town.

I'd be willing to lynch zu Faul today as well, since he's guaranteed scum as well, but the probable twofer we're going to get by lynching Yosarian seems the best idea to me.

If kmd is taking vig requests, my vote is for zu faul (assuming we lynch one of rofl/yos and the other doesn't die) since he's by far the scummiest person still alive.

This is a good post.

No one even considers I was not on the BAB wagon and defended him. If you push for a scum lynch, you are town, and if you push against a town lynch, you are... scum? Honestly, the only case I see against me is the "breadcrumb" which I have already explained. I could not get anything out of it as scum.

Oh shit guys, he's right. Scum never defend town. Now what?

--------------

Serial, the Rofl lynch is the way to go.

Also, a Pooky shot would be dumb. Zu is obviously a better choice.

[Kmd4390]

I'm fine with a hammer.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't confirm anything. Just said that Rofl is a better lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Two reasons:
1) More likely to be scum than Yos
2) Confirms 1 scum and 2 town in the worst case scenario where we're wrong. Being wrong on Yos leaves us right back where we started and we'd probably lynch Rofl anyway.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't shoot last night. Was happy enough with yesterday's outcome.

Vote Zu_Faul

[Kmd4390]

We're not lynching Pooky.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah. I'm not sure who I'd lynch between Thesp and VP. Definitely not Pooky though. And Zu comes before either.

[Kmd4390]

We're not lynching Pooky.

this post is full of win.

Kmd got your back.

[Kmd4390]

VP, scum were all over lynching Pooky over Tajo.

[Kmd4390]

Actually, let's look at that:
populartajo: 7 (charter, ekiM, elvis_knits, Kmd4390, PookyTheMagicalBear, SerialClergyman, VP Baltar)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 6 (iamausername, populartajo, roflcopter, Thesp, Yosarian2, zu_Faul)

Better with color:

populartajo

: 7 (charter, ekiM, elvis_knits, Kmd4390, PookyTheMagicalBear,

SerialClergyman

, VP Baltar)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 6 (

iamausername

,

populartajo, roflcopter

, Thesp,

Yosarian2

, zu_Faul)

+Townpoints=Charter, ekiM, EK, VP.
+Scumpoints=Thesp/Zu.

Biggest thing I take out of this:
Thesp gets lynched before VP.

[Kmd4390]

VP, the way the scum piled on Pooky, why wouldn't they just pile on a town-aligned player? Iam and Serial were both considered reasonably scummy by quite a few players.

EK's plan works for me.

[Kmd4390]

VP, the names were thrown around and they got a few votes. The way the scum piled on Pooky, they weren't concerned about being caught voting together. There was more than enough support that they could have done the same with either Iam or Serial. I can see your point about Iam, but what about Serial?

[Kmd4390]

what would have been stopping them from just lynching him?

Pooky being town and an even easier target.

[Kmd4390]

Why would we vig Pooky if Zu flips town? If we are wrong about Zu, it gives us less breathing room and we should stick to the plan.

[Kmd4390]

I wouldn't be against a hammer.

[Kmd4390]

Nice. Town won when we lynched Tajo. Good game guys.

[Kmd4390]

Hero, when was I a jester?

[Kmd4390]

Hero, when was I a jester?

^I'm reading the QTs.

[Kmd4390]

So scum didn't kill me right away, but they kept blocking me. That's good.

[Kmd4390]

Hero, when was I a jester?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11092
Jester townie. I mostly remember that game for the claims.

Being a daytalking lover mason is pretty awesome, btw.

Oh yeah. "Hey guys, I'm a voteless miller".

Didn't I make you a death miller in the same Marathon Day?