Mafia 104 - Revenge of the Crimson King - Game!

[Riceballtail]

While I understand why people want to lynch Muh, I don't see the reasoning for lynching him now, when there are more likely scum to lynch. He may be contentless, but he's doing far better than other people, such as Empking. It feels like right now people are trying to push an easy wagon. I'd rather see a lynch on Anna or Rec right now.

[Socrates]

I have fallen behind and I am having a hard time catching up. Can someone sum up the cases on Muh and Anachie in 2 paragraphs or less each?

[Merkabah]

@Socrates: Zoraster's 948 is well done for points against Annachie; while our posts on the previous page and Anna's responses are damning as well.

WB Percy, how was the losing the rest of your life of freedom?

[Merkabah]

Sorry about being part Mastin, Zor. That hurts

[zoraster]

Sorry about being part Mastin, Zor. That hurts

I might have exaggerated a teensy bit

[Xylthixlm]

Vote Count

muh316 -

3

(xRECKONERx, Raivann, Annachie)
Annachie -

3

(Merkabah, RayFrost, zoraster)
Raivann -

2

(Tarhalindur, Empking)

Not voting: Socrates, Wickedestjr, muh316, Pads, Slicey, Vaya, Riceballtail, Kise

With 16 alive it will take 9 to lynch.

[zoraster]

mod: I think you missed my vote on Annachie, but just in case I messed something up syntax wise:

Vote: Annachie

[RayFrost]

You know, I get goosebumps from the thought of a merk/tar/zor scum team if only from the pure awesome that would result... I honestly don't think I'd be able to figure them out. It's making me paranoid. Yet I still trust them cuz they seem town >.<"

[xRECKONERx]

While I understand why people want to lynch Muh, I don't see the reasoning for lynching him now, when there are more likely scum to lynch. He may be contentless, but he's doing far better than other people, such as Empking. It feels like right now people are trying to push an easy wagon. I'd rather see a lynch on Anna or Rec right now.

Did I miss the part where you posted your suspicions/case against me, or are you just pulling that out of your ass like I suspect?

[Merkabah]

@Ray: Look out for that too townie fallacy. You're climbing in suspicion, especially as of late.

[RayFrost]

@Ray: Look out for that too townie fallacy. You're climbing in suspicion, especially as of late.

I'm just saying what comes to mind. I'm not saying anybody else should suspect you or that you are in fact suspicious. In fact, I've pretty much said I think you guys are

town

.

[Socrates]

Okay, I have found some time to read the last five pages.

I have no intention of voting Muh until we have some confirmation of a second scum team.

Annachie's 943 is turbo bad and I am willing to vote him over that by itself.

vote: Annachie

Zoraster, I notice you talk about Raivann's tunneling over Muh, but you don't really say what it means about his alignment. How much do you like him as scum because of that?

Personally, I am wondering if he is using it as a crutch to avoid participating while still having something to post about.

Raivann, Say you can't get your precious Muh lynch today, who do you vote?

I would say something about how it feels like only half of the players are actually participating, but I am guilty of that too.

[Merkabah]

Then what was the point of the post, Ray?

Cause to me it seemed like "OMG what if Zor/Tar/Merk were scum! They'd be awesome and we'd never know!" (obviously exaggerated) rather than contributing to discussion. It was a post for post's sake if you're *not* calling us too townie; or you are calling us too townie; neither of which are great reasons to make a post in the first place.

Instead, who's your second suspect and why? Answer for an independent of Anna (like he's not here); if he is scum, and if he flips not.

[RayFrost]

Vaya independent of anna - I still don't like the play really. Comes in, hops onto a bandwagon like "whee bandwagon roxors!1!11!" (exaggeration obviously) and then vanishes.

If Anna flips scum, I'd be staring at the muh wagon.

If Anna flips town, I'll be looking at the people that jumped on with flimsy reasons (myself included, as I don't really know what else to add on it past what zor/you/etc have said).

[xRECKONERx]

I'd be okay with an Anna lynch.

@Socrates: what about Anna's 943 specifically is incredi-bad?

[Kise]

Sorry for inactivity. Snowstorm took me out. Catching up now.

[Riceballtail]

While I understand why people want to lynch Muh, I don't see the reasoning for lynching him now, when there are more likely scum to lynch. He may be contentless, but he's doing far better than other people, such as Empking. It feels like right now people are trying to push an easy wagon. I'd rather see a lynch on Anna or Rec right now.

Did I miss the part where you posted your suspicions/case against me, or are you just pulling that out of your ass like I suspect?

I'm just beginning to notice an intrinsic lack of detail remembering in your posts. Like D3's first (No scum after five deaths?), trying to put a kill flavor on Glork when he clearly had one posted in his PM, and don't forget forgetting MM's early tracker claim. This doesn't seem like a normal town play, who needs to gather as much information as they possibly can to make efficient decisions.

[Socrates]

For what its worth, I can understand RECK forgetting what MM's claim was, due to ongoing games.

[Socrates]

I'd be okay with an Anna lynch.

@Socrates: what about Anna's 943 specifically is incredi-bad?

It was pure unadulterated OMGUS with no attempt to defend himself other than to attempt to discredit his attacker.

[xRECKONERx]

I'd be okay with an Anna lynch.

@Socrates: what about Anna's 943 specifically is incredi-bad?

It was pure unadulterated OMGUS with no attempt to defend himself other than to attempt to discredit his attacker.

Hmm. Good point, in iso, I didn't notice he was going after his attacker. I don't like RBT's weak-ass case on me being reason for lynch, and I still hate muh's play, but with your explanation, I'd be willing to vote Anna just as much as Muh.

[Riceballtail]

How does one exactly forget a modkill D1? Especially since the argument was rather explosive and had several walls of angry text?

[xRECKONERx]

...what?

[Percy]

Hi all, just got back. Will do a post in the next 48 hours once I'm caught up.

[Pads]

Then it certainly begs the question why you think Vaya is not scum for doing something that a scum sometimes maybe does. I'll tell you what I think, though. I think this comment looks unnatural.

It is something that scum may do, but I don't think Vaya is the kind of player that would do it as scum. I also have a gut read that Vaya is town, and the many of the reasons being used against her could apply to others.

I'm attempting to follow your line of reasoning, and like a startled octopus you ink me with a cloud of "gut reads" and "meta tells me so".

@Pads: Look at the game RF posted a link to. Muh's play in that game is diametrically opposed to his playstyle here (as in, he did actual scumhunting in that game).

And again.

How can I possibly pursue? I know it's the not the most popular idea on this site, but I can't stand meta. I think each game and each player's performance in a game is its own beast. Furthermore, meta is a way for people to argue whatever the heck they want. What's my recourse if I, upon reading the provided meta material, don't come to the same conclusion? Am I to argue with Player A about Player's B play in another game, complete with quotes from that other game? I bet the other players in the game would find that useful.

If you're trying to sell me on something, just remember - If it's not from this game, I don't care about it.

/rant off

And pads im not 12. And believe it or not manga is a popular thing these days. Thats why its in my avatar. and I dont think im playing with educated 21 year olds or 40 year olds.

My intention was not to be insulting, and I apologize if it had that effect. I've got a row of Manga books on my shelf, and I'm well aware of its popularity. All that said, the growing sentiment seems to be is that you're not forthcoming with your thoughts on the game, and what thoughts you have stated are not fleshed out very well.

1. the gracing us with your presence thing was a joke, not an attack.

It really doesn't read like it, but alright.

2. I chose you out of the people that were inactive because I didn't remember that you were in the game until I read the player list. And you were posting in the you know which game.

Fair enough, I suppose, but my posts often end up being of a size that I don't have time to do posts for two games at the same sitting.

Assuming two scum teams, your best conclusion here is the following:

1. I'm either town tracker or tracker for the opposing scum team

That looks like a reasonable interpretation, with the clarification that 'opposing' means 'non-Jupiter'. Your claim would be a bold move for MonkeyMan's scumbuddy, with some nice townie points to be gained from it, but that seems unlikely given MonkeyMan's early attacks on you.

Pads is Jupiter Mafia for the casual convos/tips he gave to MM D1 (probably later),

I continue to be stunned at how much damage MonkeyMan was able to do with just a few lines. Even as a dead scum, there's

still

someone echo'ing his idea that I was calling his actions pro-town. Scum points for Kise. *shakes head*

I'm going to assume that Tar is town, as a scum mason outting and asking for the lynch of his partner to gain sole control of the PR is rather too obvious for me to consider a scum tell.

Why wouldn't this be a scumtell? I don't understand.

Imagine that you're scumTar, and you have a fake Mason PM that talks about an unconfirmed relationship with a person who is not on your scum team and presumably has the same PM. You know that the likelihood of that person being town is very good, since you're already the scum mason, and double scum masons borders on bastard modding. And you know once they die their PM is going to be shown to the town (as Exalt's PM had already been shown upon his death). Why in the world would you announce your role, and state that you find your mason partner to be scummy and call for his death, if you knew that his revealed PM would almost certainly be town and make you look very, very bad, in addition to being forced to subject the use of your ability to the judgement of the town for the rest of the game?

It's actually a step beyond 'too obvious'. It's a vastly suboptimal play in comparison to milking the mason connection for what it might be worth. All this in addition to his straightforward scum hunting this far, and Tar is all but certain to be town.


Quick observation:

Here.

You are useless.

Unvote

Vote: Swimmer

I had a reason but I've forgotten it.

really really useless.

Empking, despite the contentless Swimmer vote, is likely not Exalt or MonkeyMan's scum buddy. If Exalt had the nards to defend self-destructing scumbuddy MonkeyMan, then there's no reason to think he'd feel forced to bus Empking for his (Empking's) play.

Riceballtail

Iso Post 2 - Finds Swimmer scummy. Votes MonkeyMan

Iso Post 6 - Finds Pads scummy.

Iso Post 9 - Suspicious of Socrates and SolemnJ

Iso Post 10 - Suspicious of Kise

Iso Post 11 - Switches vote to Cyberbob, still finds MonkeyMan suspicious.

Iso Post 13 - Suspicious of Ray (based on Cyberbob being scum)

Iso Post 15 - Suspicious of Devestation

Iso Post 23 - Suspicious of Wickestjr

Iso Post 24 - Throws support of the muh lynch, but not as the best lynch for today. It's not really clear if he's suspicious of muh or not, only that there are other people more likely to be scum.

What first brought my attention to Riceballtail is that, as far as I can tell, he was the only person on Day 1 that thought both Swimmer and MonkeyMan were scum, an issue that otherwise polarized the rest of the town. Whichever wagon took off, Riceballtail had the opportunity to fall on it.

His play to this point has had a similar air to that Day 1 play, as he's put himself in a spot to go onto any of the current wagons, even the one that he doesn't see the reasoning for (muh). And while he's thrown a lot of suspicion around, he's not thrown any townie reads out. None. I couldn't tell you the name of anyone Riceballtail would not be willing to lynch. This is scum behavior.

I'd be game for a Riceballtail or Wickedestjr lynch, and I'd find a way to live with myself if Kise was the lynch. But Zoraster's got a good case. Furthermore, Anna replaced SolemnJ, who was already a prime pick for MonkeyMan's buddy, as per my Post 166. More than happy to put my name on this wagon.

vote: Annachie

[Riceballtail]

Hey Pads, how's that new chainsaw you got there?

Thanks for reminding me that you/Kise/Dev were scummy. Your posts selected ignore other parts that vitally explain the strategy that I've been using in order to weed out the scum (example: I perpetually insisted that Monkey/Swimmer were scumbuddies; however removing that fact, it would make me look scummy). You have also forgotten to mention the times of which I've argued with your scumbuddy Rec there (and maybe scumbuddy Tar? Or Merk even? I've posted suspicions there too!). This case looks like instead of actually reading me, you just went and looked at all my votes/fos/hos and made a case out of that.

I'll also point out that you went through all the effort to build a case on me, then put your vote on... the currently biggest wagon?

This is scum behavior.

There's nobody that I would defend as being town, so I won't call anyone town. Since we are likely dealing with two scum groups, it's inherent that we remember that someone who looks town may be the second group. Between the strawmans, the misrep, and the general out-of-nowhere case you built on me, I'm more than confident enough to:

VOTE:Pads