Open 202 - Friends JK 9 (Game Over)

[don_johnson]

unvote

good response. i will have to reread the timeline on the "piggybacking" accusation, but if your timeline is correct, then i will retract it. if you want your earlier game votes to be taken seriously, they should be fleshed out when they are given. i don't think its out of line for me to interpret them as random/joke when the reasoning is not concretely attached. that said, i think i have a new case a brewin.

That's what I thought. Just because you aren't able to read him, why does that make you think the rest of us can't?

i need to iso your posts, but you are rubbing me the wrong way. you seem to be attributing comments to me that i never made. i don't think i said i was unable to read him, and i also don't think i said the rest of you can't either. please go back and read what i posted in its context and get back to me. in the meantime, i am going to analyze your contributions.

[don_johnson]

ebwop:

unvote

[semioldguy]

@TDC
Cheap shot at your random vote.

[semioldguy]

Wdjat is currently the next best lynch after SerRose in my opinion.

Care to elaborate on this now?

For reasons previously stated. Additionally post 118 seems disingenuous to me. It makes little sense to me that wdjat is stamping the okay for wanting anti-town players for living until tomorrow. His not wanting to lynch SerRose or Lowell based on what I feel are likely horrible reasons. It looks to me like he is trying to keep some easy targets alive regardless of whether they are scummy or not. He doesn't give a suitable explanation for why they might be town or that we shouldn't lynch them.

[ConfidAnon]

@ConfidAnon
Is there anything from your predecessor that you are in agreement with?

Not really, off the top of my head.

What is your read on Lowell after his post against you?

I kind of want an answer to my question I posed to him earlier before I can accurately answer this . . . but my vote lies somewhere else now. Keep reading.

He doesn't have to make the read, but just being able to look at her posts and give us an opinion of her play shouldn't be that hard.

The question itself was strange to me, hence my statement about it being awkward. From an outside viewpoint, a player asked to judge their replacement is going to do one of two things:

1. As town, look at their predecessor and draw a town conclusion.
2. As nontown, look at their predecessor and say they draw a town conclusion.

So no matter what, I'm gonna say town. In my position, therefore I can do one of three things: Overlook Nessa's strange play and just blindly proclaim town so everyone can here (and thus get called out by you for not arguing my position or defending the actions of someone who is no longer in the game), try to come up with a defense for her (I would say a noob, but that's obvious from my perspective) which you would in turn call me scummy with (because I am defending scummy behavior), or call Nessa scummy, which in turn calls myself scummy.

No matter how I go about answering that question, I feel as though you would still call me scummy . . . which, now, looking back at it, makes it seem like fake scumhunting.

Unvote, Vote: Sleepless Assassin

What answer to that question would have led you to say "that seems town?"

[TDC]

He doesn't have to make the read, but just being able to look at her posts and give us an opinion of her play shouldn't be that hard.

The question itself was strange to me, hence my statement about it being awkward. From an outside viewpoint, a player asked to judge their replacement is going to do one of two things: [..]
No matter how I go about answering that question, I feel as though you would still call me scummy . . . which, now, looking back at it, makes it seem like fake scumhunting.

Unvote, Vote: Sleepless Assassin

What answer to that question would have led you to say "that seems town?"

Uh, except that nobody ever asked you to judge your predecessor (or his alignment), you did that in reply to

@ ConfidAnon: Any thoughts about the game?

[semioldguy]

@ConfidAnon
Is there anything from your predecessor that you are in agreement with?

Not really, off the top of my head.

Go back and look just in case.

Mod: I will be V/LA until Monday

[ConfidAnon]

He doesn't have to make the read, but just being able to look at her posts and give us an opinion of her play shouldn't be that hard.

The question itself was strange to me, hence my statement about it being awkward. From an outside viewpoint, a player asked to judge their replacement is going to do one of two things: [..]
No matter how I go about answering that question, I feel as though you would still call me scummy . . . which, now, looking back at it, makes it seem like fake scumhunting.

Unvote, Vote: Sleepless Assassin

What answer to that question would have led you to say "that seems town?"

Uh, except that nobody ever asked you to judge your predecessor (or his alignment), you did that in reply to

@ ConfidAnon: Any thoughts about the game?

Gah. Wow. I should probably reread this thread . . . I haven't really felt invested in this game yet, and I need to get my head back into the game. It will probably happen tomorrow night.

[Meji Fan]

Sleepless Assassin - Confid Anon, Wdjat
SerRose - Dry-fit, semioldguy
ConfidAnon - Lowell, Sleepless Assassin




Not voting - don_johnson, SerRose, TDC

[Dry-fit]

i need to iso your posts, but you are rubbing me the wrong way. you seem to be attributing comments to me that i never made. i don't think i said i was unable to read him, and i also don't think i said the rest of you can't either. please go back and read what i posted in its context and get back to me.

Okay...

i was more alluding to the fact that it is not in town's best interest to lynch a player who is ultimately null tell. null tell players are better targeted with night actions. doesn't make a difference what set-up you are in.

dry-fit: null tell means you can't read a player. they appear as neither scum nor town.

I can't see any interpretation of this other than that you can't get a read on him. And since you're recommending we don't lynch him because he's "null tell," I don't see how you're not suggesting the rest of us can't read him either. Why else would you describe him that way?

[don_johnson]

you are isolating the comments from the discussion they were in. hence, taking the quotes out of context.

the first quote is a general statement of mafia theory. it was posted in response to another player voting for someone who, by their own posts, indicated a null-tell read on another player.

the second is me defining a term for you.

it was not me "describing him" that way. it was me interpreting another players description of his play. read the quotes in context with the discussion and it should be obvious.

[Lowell]

I'm not buying 154, but it does make a little sense in a way.

I guess my feeling is if someone asked me to comment on my predecessor I would just say no, or say, "uh, he's town" and be done with it. What I saw instead was confid trying to win cred by showing how "objectively" he could look at things... which of course makes no sense, since obviuosly he has to conclude that his predecessor was town.

Even if you buy his explanation in 154, to then vote serrose for mentioning it is a stretch. So confid believes it was serrose's brilliant plan to trick him into commenting on his predecessor so that we could jump on him for doing so? I doubt it. It looks more like a one-line throwaway. confid is taking out his frustration more than making a solid vote. It's not like there are no reasons to vote serrose. But to seize on

that

one seems strange.

[TDC]

Gah. Wow. I should probably reread this thread .

But you don't think that your vote, which is based on an event that didn't actually happen, is invalid now?

mod: I've unvoted

I guess my feeling is if someone asked me to comment on my predecessor I would just say no, or say, "uh, he's town" and be done with it. What I saw instead was confid trying to win cred by showing how "objectively" he could look at things... which of course makes no sense, since obviuosly he has to conclude that his predecessor was town.

While I agree with this, I'll repeat that he wasn't even asked to comment on his predecessor. Just a generic "any thoughts?".

--

I'm not really following what the point of the dj-dry spat is.

[Meji Fan]

Fixed TDC's vote

As a reminder, deadline is March 3, 11:38 AM CST (or rather, as soon as I check it after that time since I probably wont be able to check at exactly 11:38 AM)

[semioldguy]

I come back to essentially three days of little to nothing?!

@Mod: Please prod SerRose, wdjat and Sleepless Assassin

They are all well over the 72 hour mark.

Deadline is in two days and with the amount of non-activity here it heavily favors scum. Let's get to a consensus, without it we pass the day with little information as scum basically have to do nothing with so little going on and with the votes not in any way together.

My top two suspects are SerRose and wdjat. Let's lynch one of them. They are both scummy in addition to their lurking, causing an overall decline in the game's activity and a favorable scum condition.

SerRose continues to express concern over the conditions he is creating, yet doing nothing about it. This is very scummy.

[don_johnson]

i am not sure what the dj/dry spat is about either. he seems intent on twisting my words and ignoring context, though, which is just getting annoying.

164: i don't see any reason to take confid off the list at this point. there have been a couple good points made by lowell and tdc. i am not sure why wdjat is even being considered. is there a case against him?

[TDC]

Ugh, wasn't aware of the deadline.

vote: ConfidAnon

[TDC]

Mod: "If there is a tie, whoever had the first vote that day will be lynched. If noone had any votes that day, whoever had the most votes last day will be lynched." Does that mean whoever of those tied had the first vote, or whoever had the first vote period?

[TDC]

Further: Does "first vote" mean the first vote cast, or the first vote that still stands (so the oldest vote basically)?

For the record, the first vote on anyone was semioldguy on Dry-fit,
the first vote on one of those currently having votes was nessarae on Ser and
the oldest vote is wdjat on Ser.

[Dry-fit]

After a reread, I really don't like how Wdjat stated that Lowell shouldn't be the lynch so early. I would switch my vote to him but SerRose's vote is just so darn bad. Really need to hear an explanation from him.

@DJ: After rereading the thread, I'm still not sure who you were referring to that said he was null, but I'm willing to drop it.

[Meji Fan]

Prods being sent. I apologize for the unclear rule and will attempt to get it interpreted

[don_johnson]

@DJ: After rereading the thread, I'm still not sure who you were referring to that said he was null, but I'm willing to drop it.

sorry. noone actually said he was null. the case against him seemed to be because players couldn't get a good read on him. to me, that implied that he was what i would refer to as "null-tell". my strategy with null-tell players is to target them with things like vig kills, investigations, etc. it was a general statement of mafia theory. not meant to direct anyone. but yeah, we can drop it. the conversation seemed to be in a negative spiral. on to bigger things:

vote: confid

L-1. nobody hammer. let's get a claim. he doesn't look good on reread. two days to deadline. discuss...

[Meji Fan]

I have had the rule interpreted, in the case of a tie whoever was first voted for that day (in this case semioldguy) is lynched. My apologies on the illogical rule, but I do not believe I can in good conscience change it this close to deadline and wish I caught it earlier (I made it up, it just didn't get written meaning what I thought I was trying to say)

Also wdjat has replied to prod and is being replaced

edit: wdjat has just informed me does not need to be replaced

[Wdjat]

Apologies of the absence. It's been resolved and I am trying to catch up now. I do need to get to sleep soon, but I will definitely be posting thoughts in the morning.

[Wdjat]

Sleepless Assassin's line of questioning to ConfidAnon looks like he's just trying to turn nessarae56's confused posts into a scum read on ConfidAnon so he has an excuse to lynch him. By trying to force ConfidAnon into making that read, he setting himself up to avoid responsibility if ConfidAnon turns up town. I agree that flawed logic isn't a scumtell by itself, but this post where he responds to that flaw being pointed out with more pressure pushes my read from stupid to scummy.

I would probably have made that post had it not already been there. CA's awkwardness towards his former self was certainly good enough to poke into at that early point.

I mean there's only so much to be about nessarae56's play. And this post in particular reads like someone who already knows what conclusion they want to draw.